Roundabouts, because these threads are always great!

Decent Skin · 31-08-2016 01:33PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm refusing to give a moments thought to your pedanty re: 12:15. 12 o clock is very obviously straight through a roundabout. Look at the sign as you approach the roundabout and you'll see which exit is straight across.

No idea what the second line is about. Did I say it?

Don't be so easily offended. By get your head around I clearly mean it took me a number of posts to attempt to explain it to you and you kept getting caught up on small details which would have not been an issue had you used a bit of common sense. You either found it hard to get your head around it or you were being obtuse.

What do I do personally, in what scenario? I have only ever used the right lane to go straight when the left lane has been full of congested traffic all turning left. If one of them had continued on I would have exited in tandem with them had there been two exit lanes, if not two exits I would've changed my speed to get there before or after them, and if needing to abort then I would continue around the roundabout. What's so hard about that situation?

No idea what you mean about my common sense kicking in. I follow system, nothing is left to chance and I don't rely on other vehicles ever continuing doing what they already were, or making the right decision.

It wasn't an attack. And there is no attitude, I gave a terrible diagram that you completely ignored, yet you're getting into pedantry over this 12:15 'lark'

Can you confirm that you understand I don't use the right lane to go straight through roundabouts? I am trying really very hard to explain the cases when it is OK to do so, but it seems like you think I do it at every roundabout. I don't.

At this point we're arguing about arguing. Please post a diagram or link to somewhere on google maps if you want to know what I would do in a certain situation, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that we would both be following the same rules of the road, except in the case of the left lane being congested.

Coming from the bottom of the pic, which lane would you use to go to the top right of the pic ?

Some would argue that it's "12 o'clock", some that it's 12:30 or 1, meaning they'd use different lanes depending on their agreement or otherwise with what you say.

"Left lane for first 2 exits" removes ambiguity and potential for unnecessary stress and possible accidents.

grogi · 31-08-2016 01:34PM

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Picture a roundabout exits at 12,3,6 and 9 o'clock both with two lanes. /cut/

a) Jake has right of way.
b) Yes, it is ok. But I stopped doing so to avoid dodgy situations.
c) IMHO - yes. It is easier to do it in advance... Change to the outerlane at 9.

grogi · 31-08-2016 01:36PM

Decent Skin wrote: »

"Left lane for first 2 exits" removes ambiguity and potential for unnecessary stress and possible accidents.

Left lane for first exit does. Any other setup does not...

Decent Skin · 31-08-2016 01:39PM

grogi wrote: »

Left lane for first exit does. Any other setup does not...

OK - reduces instead of removes.

frozenfrozen · 31-08-2016 01:50PM

Decent Skin wrote: »

Coming from the bottom of the pic, which lane would you use to go to the top right of the pic ?

Some would argue that it's "12 o'clock", some that it's 12:30 or 1, meaning they'd use different lanes depending on their agreement or otherwise with what you say.

"Left lane for first 2 exits" removes ambiguity and potential for unnecessary stress and possible accidents.

I would go in the right lane and move left to exit from a quick glance at that. The exit is definitely past 12 o clock.

So by your rule we would both be doing the same thing..

However if flipped and you were at this roundabout https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6796023,-8.6958222,580m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

you would potentially cause a crash by following your left lane for the first two exits rule. Without a doubt in this case left lane for exits before 12 o clock is the only appropriate rule for this roundabout

DakarVert · 31-08-2016 05:40PM

You come to a roundabout and there's no traffic on it. Who has right of way?

(This was a question asked on my driving test)

frozenfrozen · 31-08-2016 05:41PM

vehicles approaching from the right

Decent Skin · 31-08-2016 06:02PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I would go in the right lane and move left to exit from a quick glance at that. The exit is definitely past 12 o clock.

So by your rule we would both be doing the same thing..

However if flipped and you were at this roundabout https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6796023,-8.6958222,580m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

you would potentially cause a crash by following your left lane for the first two exits rule. Without a doubt in this case left lane for exits before 12 o clock is the only appropriate rule for this roundabout

Never argued with you re a three-point roundabout.

My point was that "12 o'clock" is too vague, with "ah sure it's close enough" used to justify dangerous manoeuvres, whereas "first two exits" is definitive.

Special Circumstances · 31-08-2016 08:16PM

Decent Skin wrote: »

Coming from the bottom of the pic, which lane would you use to go to the top right of the pic ?

Some would argue that it's "12 o'clock", some that it's 12:30 or 1, meaning they'd use different lanes depending on their agreement or otherwise with what you say.

"Left lane for first 2 exits" removes ambiguity and potential for unnecessary stress and possible accidents.

Oh, you meant that entry/exit at Conlans roundabout. I retract my earlier statement - I thought you meant the "main" roads in and out of it.

That one you described is a bit ambigious - if you're in one lane coming in there it's 50/50 if the person in the lane next to you is going for the same exit. Considering also the flow of traffic from the right, it's manouevre that suits as close to full bore launch as you think the surface will take and leave any competitors for that exit well behind. A small degree of countersteer may be necessary :pac: :pac::pac:
I wouldn't like to be doing it at peak times in a 1.4 Focus though.

People designing roundabouts seem to put cost before ease of navigation and well before traffic flow. That roundabout is getting worse and worse

Mc Love · 01-09-2016 12:43PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Oh, you meant that entry/exit at Conlans roundabout. I retract my earlier statement - I thought you meant the "main" roads in and out of it.

That one you described is a bit ambigious - if you're in one lane coming in there it's 50/50 if the person in the lane next to you is going for the same exit. Considering also the flow of traffic from the right, it's manouevre that suits as close to full bore launch as you think the surface will take and leave any competitors for that exit well behind. A small degree of countersteer may be necessary :pac: :pac::pac:
I wouldn't like to be doing it at peak times in a 1.4 Focus though.

People designing roundabouts seem to put cost before ease of navigation and well before traffic flow. That roundabout is getting worse and worse

I dont have any issue with the roundabout at Conlons. The one down by the Cement Factory is one that seems to divide opinion though

Decent Skin · 01-09-2016 12:59PM

Mc Love wrote: »

I dont have any issue with the roundabout at Conlons. The one down by the Cement Factory is one that seems to divide opinion though

Because exit 2 (coming from Raheen) is into the Cement Factory ?

Special Circumstances · 01-09-2016 12:59PM

Mc Love wrote: »

I dont have any issue with the roundabout at Conlons. The one down by the Cement Factory is one that seems to divide opinion though

How so? Apart from being a bad solution/size/incident angles for the traffic flow, the lane choices are fairly straight forward I thought?

welll, which one - town side or mungret side?

Decent Skin · 01-09-2016 01:05PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

How so? Apart from being a bad solution/size/incident angles for the traffic flow, the lane choices are fairly straight forward I thought?

welll, which one - town side or mungret side?

I'd suspect that it's a question of which lane to use when going from Raheen to the tunnel ? 3rd exit but could be viewed as being "straight on".

Coming off the motorway into the Cement Factory would be similar, but probably not enough traffic to be a real issue.

Mc Love · 01-09-2016 01:14PM

I've been asked if coming from Raheen - which lane to take if going to dock road, you'd think its fairly straight forward, but they were of the assumption that you'd stay in the left lane!! Quickly corrected them to going in the right lane. Also if I was coming from Raheen and heading to the tunnel I'd be taking the right lane too.

frozenfrozen · 01-09-2016 01:41PM

link this on google maps I want to see if I'd be wrong

Decent Skin · 01-09-2016 01:47PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

link this on google maps I want to see if I'd be wrong

Seems like it....

frozenfrozen · 01-09-2016 02:03PM

Annoyingly half the roundabout on google streetview is from 2009 and the other half much more recently.

Coming from raheen, to the dock road you would be in the right lane? How do you reckon I would not be in the right lane? It's very clearly at nearly 3 o clock? If anything you would be in the wrong with your first two exits left lane rule, would you go in the right lane from raheen to take the tunnel?

Unless this looks totally different in current day pictures not what's on google maps?

Decent Skin · 01-09-2016 02:06PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Annoyingly half the roundabout on google streetview is from 2009 and the other half much more recently.

Coming from raheen, to the dock road you would be in the right lane? How do you reckon I would not be in the right lane? It's very clearly at nearly 3 o clock? If anything you would be in the wrong with your first two exits left lane rule, would you go in the right lane from raheen to take the tunnel?

Unless this looks totally different in current day pictures not what's on google maps?

Depends on whether you meant "right" or "correct"!!!!

It was Raheen to the tunnel that I'd mentioned; and yes, that'd be where right and correct would be synonymous - third exit, despite being at "12 o'clock" (ish).

Not sure how you reckon I'd be in the wrong with the "first two exits" rule, as I'd use the right lane to go onto the Dock Road (inbound) and the left to go towards Munget ?

frozenfrozen · 01-09-2016 02:18PM

Decent Skin wrote: »

Depends on whether you meant "right" or "correct"!!!!

It was Raheen to the tunnel that I'd mentioned; and yes, that'd be where right and correct would be synonymous.

right-hand-lane (:D) from raheen to the tunnel?! I'd go in the left lane. We would crash since it's 2 lanes in 1 lane out, and you'd be crossing into my path to exit :cool:

I've gone that way 2 or 3 times and have definitely gone in the left lane for the third exit (raheen to the tunnel), and never had anyone else have an issue with it at the time. Since it is 12 o clock, at least it is 12 o clock on the signage up the raheen road

Being in the left lane stops people from the foynes way from thinking you're carrying on around to the dock road. And so then they could stay left and take the tunnel, or continue on and exit 2 in 2 out off to the dock road..! Just how god intended roundabouts to function

and this little quick edit.. and that means people from the foynes way would be also going further than 2 exits, in the left lane to go to the dock road, you can't be saying that they would have to go in the RHL to go to the dock road!?

Mc Love · 01-09-2016 02:26PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

right-hand-lane (:D) from raheen to the tunnel?! I'd go in the left lane. We would crash since it's 2 lanes in 1 lane out, and you'd be crossing into my path to exit :cool:

I've gone that way 2 or 3 times and have definitely gone in the left lane for the third exit (raheen to the tunnel), and never had anyone else have an issue with it at the time. Since it is 12 o clock, at least it is 12 o clock on the signage up the raheen road

Being in the left lane stops people from the foynes way from thinking you're carrying on around to the dock road. And so then they could stay left and take the tunnel, or continue on and exit 2 in 2 out off to the dock road..! Just how god intended roundabouts to function

and this little quick edit.. and that means people from the foynes way would be also going further than 2 exits, in the left lane to go to the dock road, you can't be saying that they would have to go in the RHL to go to the dock road!?

On your first point in bold above, it doesnt matter what lane you are in on the roundabout, the people coming from Foynes shouldnt be joining the roundabout at the same time as you are on it as they have to give ROW "just how roundabouts are intended to function"

On the quick edit, yeah I think I would use the right lane as I do by the roundabout at Old Crescent RFC

Special Circumstances · 01-09-2016 02:27PM

I don't believe anyone in their right mind* would indicate right to go from raheen to tunnel so that's a left hand lane for me!

*not meant to be a swipe at other posters here but some people indicate right for anything except first exit even if they are in the left/only lane on the compass point roundabout. These people are to be pitied as much as feared.

frozenfrozen · 01-09-2016 02:44PM

Mc Love wrote: »

On your first point in bold above, it doesnt matter what lane you are in on the roundabout, the people coming from Foynes shouldnt be joining the roundabout at the same time as you are on it as they have to give ROW "just how roundabouts are intended to function"

On the quick edit, yeah I think I would use the right lane as I do by the roundabout at Old Crescent RFC

That's a poor way to look at it IMO. Right of way, (and all rules of the road) is(/are) there to keep the flow of traffic.

the intended function of roundabouts is to keep the flow of traffic. Never being able to enter a roundabout while there is other traffic on the roundabout defeats the purpose of the roundabout.

At that rate there is no benefit over a junction of equal importance, giving way to your right.

using the right lane to go from foynes to the dock road.. That means everyone coming from the dock road has to yield to you, even though you are taking the exit before them, which just further slows down everyone's progress.

Mc Love · 01-09-2016 02:54PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

That's a poor way to look at it IMO. Right of way, (and all rules of the road) is(/are) there to keep the flow of traffic.

the intended function of roundabouts is to keep the flow of traffic. Never being able to enter a roundabout while there is other traffic on the roundabout defeats the purpose of the roundabout.

Yeah but in relation to your post, if I was at the point of the Foynes junction, why would you be entering the roundabout if I was on it, you'd be yielding to me (i.e. traffic to your right) and then once I'm past the very close cement factory exit I'd be indicating left to take the tunnel exit.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

using the right lane to go from foynes to the dock road.. That means everyone coming from the dock road has to yield to you, even though you are taking the exit before them, which just further slows down everyone's progress.

No the traffic coming from the dock road wouldnt, because as I pass the exit for the tunnel I'd be indicating left and moving into the lane to take the dock road exit. As the traffic from the dock road would see the movement I made, wouldnt have to yield to me.

Mc Love · 01-09-2016 02:57PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I don't believe anyone in their right mind* would indicate right to go from raheen to tunnel so that's a left hand lane for me!

*not meant to be a swipe at other posters here but some people indicate right for anything except first exit even if they are in the left/only lane on the compass point roundabout. These people are to be pitied as much as feared.

I think and by the way I was led to believe that anything past the 2nd exit you would indicate right and take the 3rd exit by indicating left and moving towards the 3rd (tunnel) exit after passing the exit to the cement factory.

EDIT: the route you will take is dependent on their being arrows at the exit you are taking.

frozenfrozen · 01-09-2016 02:59PM

Mc Love wrote: »

Yeah but in relation to your post, if I was at the point of the Foynes junction, why would you be entering the roundabout if I was on it, you'd be yielding to me (i.e. traffic to your right) and then once I'm past the very close cement factory exit I'd be indicating left to take the tunnel exit.

No the traffic coming from the dock road wouldnt, because as I pass the exit for the tunnel I'd be indicating left and moving into the lane to take the dock road exit. As the traffic from the dock road would see the movement I made, wouldnt have to yield to me.

That's different. Totally different. That is what I would do if the left lane was full of people who were taking earlier exits than me. Moving over left after passing them.
Completely different to just taking the right lane, for any exit after the first two. That's not what's being discussed here with Decent Skin who is suggesting the left lane is for the first two exits always, only, (outside of being signposted etc etc.)

Mc Love · 01-09-2016 03:02PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

That's different. Totally different. That is what I would do if the left lane was full of people who were taking earlier exits than me. Moving over left after passing them.
Completely different to just taking the right lane, for any exit after the first two.

Sorry you have me confused now.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

That's not what's being discussed here with Decent Skin who is suggesting the left lane is for the first two exits always, only, (outside of being signposted etc etc.)

Yeah I would have to agree with that.

Mc Love · 01-09-2016 03:06PM

On a slightly funnier note: If this was moved to the roads forum, it might get a better response or maybe none at all

Special Circumstances · 01-09-2016 03:09PM

Mc Love wrote: »

On a slightly funnier note: If this was moved to the roads forum, it might get a better response or maybe none at all

Its all academic really, the real world is a free for all for anything beyond the compass point roundabout or quiet/mini suburban ones.

Mc Love · 01-09-2016 03:12PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Its all academic really, the real world is a free for all for anything beyond the compass point roundabout or quiet/mini suburban ones.

Yeah - I am surprised nobody has brought up the fact that most people dont even use their indicators on roundabouts and want you to channel your inner Professor Xavier to guess what direction they are going.

frozenfrozen · 01-09-2016 03:17PM

Mc Love wrote: »

Sorry you have me confused now.

Yeah I would have to agree with that.

Ok so the moving left bit is good/advanced driving but not 'normal'. You would approach in the RHL to go straight if the left lane was full of people waiting to turn left but it was congested etc.. After you pass that exit you move left, to take the next exit. Which is what you said, and I agree this is what I would do, and is good driving.

This is what I was arguing for as being the circumstance to go straight from the RHL at the start of this thread.

It's totally different to saying, third exit, right lane. Every time. (outside of being signposted etcetcetcetc) Which is what decent skin is saying.

My rule which has so far not been proven wrong, is left lane for anything before 12 o clock. And I outlined the circumstances for when you would use the RHL to go 'straight' (which is where you would move left to exit, after passing the earlier exits.)

If you would agree with decent skin that the left lane is for the first two lanes always bar none (except for being signposted otherwise)? Then you've already contradicted yourself by saying you would move back to the left lane before exiting. There's no benefit to entering a roundabout in the right lane to go to an exit before 12 o clock (unless the left is full etc like above). You have to make a lane change to exit, so you would potentially be crossing somebody else's path, or forcing people to yield further around the roundabout.

Mc Love wrote: »

On a slightly funnier note: If this was moved to the roads forum, it might get a better response or maybe none at all

We'd be thrown out by the scruff of our respective necks

The sad thing is that this is all quite pointless, because as has been said nobody else cares, even if it was just us with our different interpretations of the rules, it would still be fine because we all give way to the right anyway. It really is just academic, we should be playing road traffic simulator or something because other people will continue to just drive through roundabouts without giving a **** about indicating or right of way or anything

Roundabouts, because these threads are always great!

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