Civil Wedding - Our Right To A Good Day?

hatrickpatrick · 28-08-2016 09:16PM

This is a horrible story indeed. What grounds are there for the law which states that a civil wedding must be open to the public? Strikes me as tailor made to enable this kind of sh!te. What's the thinking behind not allowing people to do this in private and have complete control over their own guest list...?

Whatever you do don't cancel, that sends the message that you can be bullied, which is not a reputation you want especially if this feud looks like it will continue for some time.

Aineoil · 28-08-2016 09:20PM

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Id be more worried that it would set the marker that they can get what they want if they push hard enough. No wedding is precisely what they are hoping for here

Sorry, I didn't realise that no wedding was their objective. I wish you the best and it's awful that you have to deal with this before your marriage.

28-08-2016 09:21PM

I can't answer your question but I'd like to say something here anyway. At a wedding anything can go wrong. Wedding car not turn up & you have to jump in a taxi. Anything really. After the wedding you can say that the limo driver ruined your day or you can laugh it off & have this as a funny story you can tell the grand kids about in years to come.
I guess a limo driver is the least of your worries but my point is its up to you if you let things you can't control ruin your day. Stay positive, hold your head up high & have a ball.
Sincerely wishing you both a wonderful future together.

ShaShaBear · 28-08-2016 09:22PM

Aineoil wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't realise that no wedding was their objective. I wish you the best and it's awful that you have to deal with this before your marriage.

My fault for not stating it

Didn't want to include too much obvious information, but the intent behind this was to leave me with two choices - have no-one there, or have no wedding. It would be a submission if I cancelled it.

Aineoil · 28-08-2016 09:40PM

ShaShaBear wrote: »

My fault for not stating it Didn't want to include too much obvious information, but the intent behind this was to leave me with two choices - have no-one there, or have no wedding. It would be a submission if I cancelled it.

No worries. I totally understand. I was in a similar situation 27 years ago. My mother-in-law told us our wedding wasn't well timed for her.

She went from telling me that no one from my husband's side of the family would attend the wedding to giving me a list of her relatives that I should invite that were so unrelated to her.

To cut a long story short we went ahead with the wedding. She was terse, rude and a pain in the behind the whole day.

She made a bit of a show of herself on the day to be honest.

ShaShaBear · 28-08-2016 09:44PM

Aineoil wrote: »

No worries. I totally understand. I was in a similar situation 27 years ago. My mother-in-law told us our wedding wasn't well timed for her.

She went from telling me that no one from my husband's side of the family would attend the wedding to giving me a list of her relatives that I should invite that were so unrelated to her.

To cut a long story short we went ahead with the wedding. She was terse, rude and a pain in the behind the whole day.

She made a bit of a show of herself on the day to be honest.

Well none of the immediate family are going, or rather, they are not invited. But I wouldn't put it past one or two of them. However, everyone that IS going knows who they are and will spot them a mile off.

Harika · 28-08-2016 09:51PM

You won't be able to stop shouting or profanities, but you could increase the threshold for them to speak out. I was thinking of getting some TV cameras with an RTE sticker on the side and film the whole ceremony. To appear on national news might not sound too appealing for them, so they might chicken out. Also get people on your side briefed on the situation and that it might become necessary to remove those intruders as quickly and efficient as possible. Ask the hotel if they could provide security, what could make the hotel go several ways as they don't like bad PR in general.
We had the fear at our wedding that someone might go haywire, so I briefed the groomsmen and some guests, that in the worst case they will deal with it. Nothing happened, but it gave us a piece of mind that a plan was in place for that.

Edit: Air horns are louder than humans.

28-08-2016 09:54PM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Yes of course you do. Where are you having your wedding? In the Registrars Office or a hotel?

How exactly?

freshpopcorn · 28-08-2016 11:00PM

I could be totally wrong about this but if your started making a big deal about needing security for you wedding to the hotel could the hotel cancel in fear ye were trouble.
I'm just basing this on hearing that sometimes hotels can cancel if their dodgy of the family. As all ready said I could be totally wrong about this!

ShaShaBear · 28-08-2016 11:10PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I could be totally wrong about this but if your started making a big deal about needing security for you wedding to the hotel could the hotel cancel in fear ye were trouble.
I'm just basing this on hearing that sometimes hotels can cancel if their dodgy of the family. As all ready said I could be totally wrong about this!

It's a small enough wedding even before the drop-outs and I'm only really concerned about one or two people, both of which wouldn't last a second on their own. But I wouldn't be going for mental security, just a physically imposing guy in a nice suit sitting with the other guests and keeping an eye out for trouble.

Toots · 28-08-2016 11:10PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I could be totally wrong about this but if your started making a big deal about needing security for you wedding to the hotel could the hotel cancel in fear ye were trouble.
I'm just basing this on hearing that sometimes hotels can cancel if their dodgy of the family. As all ready said I could be totally wrong about this!

To be honest I'd say it'd need to be really bad for the hotel to pull out this close to the day. My aunt used to work in a very popular wedding hotel and by all accounts it wasn't at all uncommon for couples to ask the hotel for help removing potentially troublesome people who might show up uninvited.

ShaShaBear · 28-08-2016 11:13PM

Toots wrote: »

To be honest I'd say it'd need to be really bad for the hotel to pull out this close to the day. My aunt used to work in a very popular wedding hotel and by all accounts it wasn't at all uncommon for couples to ask the hotel for help removing potentially troublesome people who might show up uninvited.

I definitely can't imagine it's all that uncommon for a bride and groom to name one family member that they wouldn't put it past. We definitely wouldn't be talking about a serious beef-up of security like earpieces and people all over the place with walkie-talkies. I would hope that if I have to resort to that (if things get worse, I will) that no-one will know he is there unless he has to take action.

freshpopcorn · 28-08-2016 11:19PM

I can't really comment on this situation but I have heard of people saying their going to ruin people's weddings/etc and in general nothing happens and if somebody is going to have a little melt down during the ceremony it will probably still happen with the security guy their!

freedominacup · 28-08-2016 11:34PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is a horrible story indeed. What grounds are there for the law which states that a civil wedding must be open to the public? Strikes me as tailor made to enable this kind of sh!te. What's the thinking behind not allowing people to do this in private and have complete control over their own guest list...?

Whatever you do don't cancel, that sends the message that you can be bullied, which is not a reputation you want especially if this feud looks like it will continue for some time.

All weddings not just civil ones.

hatrickpatrick · 28-08-2016 11:36PM

Harika wrote: »

I was thinking of getting some TV cameras with an RTE sticker on the side and film the whole ceremony. To appear on national news might not sound too appealing for them, so they might chicken out.

This is just deliciously genius.

hatrickpatrick · 28-08-2016 11:37PM

freedominacup wrote: »

All weddings not just civil ones.

But why? Surely it should be up to the parties involved to decide who gets to see their wedding...?

Thoie · 28-08-2016 11:45PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

But why? Surely it should be up to the parties involved to decide who gets to see their wedding...?

It's to prevent things like bigamy. If I'm already married to you (surprise!!), I can't go off and have a totally secret ceremony to marry someone else at the same time. Having the area open to the public allows you to turn up and object.

TheChizler · 28-08-2016 11:50PM

Very off topic but how do high profile people get away with having totally closed off ceremonies in that case?

pwurple · 29-08-2016 12:26AM

TheChizler wrote: »

Very off topic but how do high profile people get away with having totally closed off ceremonies in that case?

They open the venue during the ceremony only.

Or use someplace that is tricky to get to.

There are venues who specialise in being private. They 'technically' open to the public for a few minutes,but because there is no signage, unless you know about the event in advance (with an invite), you won't be there at the right time to get in. Or they may open gates from 2 to 2:30, but the location of bride and groom are a 40 minute walk into the estate.

The Princess Bride · 29-08-2016 12:51AM

How very sad that his family are behaving this way, what miserable people they must be.
To deliberately try and sabotage your special day- jeez could anybody really be that vindictive?

I've nothing of value to add except to say best of luck and may you both have a wonderful life together.

AoifeCork · 29-08-2016 04:31AM

This is literally the last thing any bride or groom needs so you have the world of sympathy from me. I think you have two options (not sure if they've been discussed!)
1.) Push the ceremony forward by 45 minutes ish. Just tell everyone who needs to know.
2) hire the smartly dressed heavy if you would feel comfortable with him there. Surely there are local doormen you might know or a security guy? Don't have him at the door-invite him to sit at the back of the wedding so that he is first on the case should any vile, spiteful, nasty (sorry had to get that out!!!) people decide to ruin your day of happiness.

If it were me I would probably go right for them but you seem far more dignified and gracious than I!

I am so sorry you have to go through this. Given that you have probably had numerous exchanges and meetings with the hotel, they will know you are decent people who genuinely want a happy, stress free day. Try to remember that and just keep them in the know about what you plan to do. Unless they are completely heartless and rash, they won't add to your woes by cancelling the wedding or making life more difficult.
The very best of luck. I will be thinking of you!!!

intheclouds · 29-08-2016 09:38AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I can't really comment on this situation but I have heard of people saying their going to ruin people's weddings/etc and in general nothing happens and if somebody is going to have a little melt down during the ceremony it will probably still happen with the security guy their!

^^This.

Its going to be a formally set up room with a group of formally dressed guests sitting there, plus an official from the HSE plus possibly one or two hotel staff. The whole atmosphere will be formal, respectful etc....

Anyone interrupting such an event would be looked upon with horror by those in attendance and would be making a show of themselves. I really doubt anyone would have the balls to.

Gatica · 29-08-2016 11:40AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is a horrible story indeed. What grounds are there for the law which states that a civil wedding must be open to the public? Strikes me as tailor made to enable this kind of sh!te. What's the thinking behind not allowing people to do this in private and have complete control over their own guest list...?

Marriage is considered a public contract and as such should be accessible to the public to witness it. Unfortunately it does mean that it cannot be done at private locations or prevent people from entering. However, as with anywhere else, I'm sure the venue can insist on someone leaving if they cause offence or are misbehaving in public.

OP, any chance you could apprise the guards of potential trouble so they're aware of it in case you do need to call them? Probably easier in a smaller rural setting where people know each other. Then having subtle security posted close to the entrance to keep an eye for those people and have photos of the culprits shared with the security to they know to look out for trouble if these do enter.

Such a horrible situation and I really feel for you. Hopefully the troublemakers won't have the gall to actually turn up on the day and make asses of themselves.

ShaShaBear · 29-08-2016 11:47AM

Gatica wrote: »

Marriage is considered a public contract and as such should be accessible to the public to witness it. Unfortunately it does mean that it cannot be done at private locations or prevent people from entering. However, as with anywhere else, I'm sure the venue can insist on someone leaving if they cause offence or are misbehaving in public.

OP, any chance you could apprise the guards of potential trouble so they're aware of it in case you do need to call them? Probably easier in a smaller rural setting where people know each other. Then having subtle security posted close to the entrance to keep an eye for those people and have photos of the culprits shared with the security to they know to look out for trouble if these do enter.

Such a horrible situation and I really feel for you. Hopefully the troublemakers won't have the gall to actually turn up on the day and make asses of themselves.

I could do that actually as I would be on personal terms with one of the locals. I'm really hoping it doesn't come to that and trying to process the next few days with as much peace and quiet as possible.
Through the 6 weeks this has been going on, we haven't really spoken out once, just been torrented with this stuff. We've had two altercations where we demanded peace for the sake of our kids, but it seems even they can't command a bit of common sense

Even if every last word out their mouths was true, is it any reason to ruin your own son's wedding day?

Starokan · 29-08-2016 02:11PM

This is so horrible, what miserable excuses for people they are.

It sounds as if the allegations they are making are very serious, I do not know the law but if someone made allegations against me that were untrue my first course of action would be the gardai if for nothing else just to register a complaint, my second visit would be to a solicitor to take whatever legal action would be open to me. Rumours take hold like wildfire, they rarely die away, family or not I would take action on this.

On the wedding itself I think the likelihood of someone turning up is slim, people bluster a lot but do very little, I would be more concerned that someone would turn in for the evening part with a skinful on them and that is the part I would hire a security guard for and would provide him with photos of whomever you expect to land in. He can be very discreet and if asked you can say its hotel policy - part of the wedding package etc.

I really think your day will pass incident free and I really hope its a happy one

tradhead · 30-08-2016 09:42PM

I think the security guards are a good idea but rather than have them sticking out like a sore thumb, why not ask them to act as ushers?

I know people don't really go for the "Bride or Groom" sides these days but they could hand out your booklets (if you're having them) and keep an eye on everyone coming in before the ceremony, and then maybe discreetly slip out to sit outside the door once it starts to make sure there are no interruptions.

I really hope that none of this is actually needed and that you end up having a lovely and stress-free day OP, it sounds like you've had a complete nightmare of late and you deserve some happiness now!

Spanish Eyes · 05-09-2016 07:30PM

I wonder what the top hatted door staff in certain "premium" five star hotels would say to someone like me who wanted to have a gander at a celeb getting hitched!

Just saying, I do wonder. Must try it sometime if I knew the date and the time! I hope you know the point I am making. One law for one, and another.....la la la.

If it were me, and due to the circumstances I would do the legal bit in the registry office, even if it is Belfast or NI (less notice required I think), and THEN, you could bar them from the reception. No worries.

That's what I would do, and everyone would understand. Record the ceremony and play it at the reception.

I wish you well.

Make it as stress free as possible please. It can be done.

ShaShaBear · 05-09-2016 09:00PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If it were me, and due to the circumstances I would do the legal bit in the registry office, even if it is Belfast or NI (less notice required I think), and THEN, you could bar them from the reception. No worries.

That's what I would do, and everyone would understand. Record the ceremony and play it at the reception.

I wish you well.

Make it as stress free as possible please. It can be done.

It's still two months notice. Which would mean we would have to cancel the reception, lose our deposit, re-pay the fees to register intent to marriage and then find another venue to hand over another deposit to. That's just adding stress on top of stress as OH has already taken time off work and won't be able to get any more.

Just going to have to show up and pray people aren't that stupid/vindictive

livedadream · 07-09-2016 11:15AM

could be as simple as requesting quests to show their invitations on the door to a groomsman maybe?

a simple sign that ive seen at other weddings and civil ceremonies is ''private event guest only'' outside the door.

prevents gatecrashers.

lazygal · 07-09-2016 11:50AM

Anyone can attend a ceremony if it is legally binding. Friends of ours were told they couldn't ask a nosy woman to get out, she wanted to see a civil ceremony as she'd never been to one and sat down and there was nothing they could do.

Civil Wedding - Our Right To A Good Day?

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