Civil Wedding - Our Right To A Good Day?

ShaShaBear

Without going into too much detail, a huge family rift has occured through slanderous lies being spread about myself and my OH (on my OH's side). One family member on his side swore to ensure that none of the other family members (immediate or extended) would attend the wedding if it wasn't resolved in his favour. We've since discovered that a large number of guests have cancelled rooms in the hotel and we have not been contacted - not even on Facebook.
This is obviously a sincere effort to ruin our day and since it is a civil wedding and therefore technically open to the public, we're starting to become genuinely worried that more efforts will be taken on the day to ruin it. Do we have any rights at all regarding refusing entry or protecting our ceremony?

JuliusCaesar

Yes of course you do. Where are you having your wedding? In the Registrars Office or a hotel?

fits

Thats awful Sha Sha. Just awful. Can you move location and not tell the people concerned?

ShaShaBear

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Yes of course you do. Where are you having your wedding? In the Registrars Office or a hotel?

At a hotel. The hotel themselves told us they have to post notice that the ceremony will be occuring and technically no-one is refused entry and any member of the public has the right to attend. It's only going to be the basic 10 minute ceremony, but I've become super aware that all it takes is one person to gain entry and do one simple thing to ruin it before being escorted out.

ShaShaBear

fits wrote: »

Thats awful Sha Sha. Just awful. Can you move location and not tell the people concerned?

Unfortunately not at this stage - the wedding is in less than a fortnight.

fits

Wow what is it about weddings that drives people crazy? When did this blow up? Is there any chance it could settle down in another couple of days?

December2012

Have a chat with your registrar and see what can be done. Can you have a security person remove anybody causing trouble or not on a list?

ShaShaBear

fits wrote: »

Wow what is it about weddings that drives people crazy? When did this blow up? Is there any chance it could settle down in another couple of days?

It started 4 weeks ago and while very severe at that stage, it was nothing compared to where it's gotten now. I highly doubt it will blow over - our ability to parent was called into question and my partner was falsely accused of a level of assault that could easily lose him his position if it were vocalised more (for the record, I was present when the so called assault occured, so I not only believe my OH out of trust and faith, I really know it didn't happen!).

We're at a loss. The people most responsible are the people closest to my OH - all immediate family. Terrified they'll show up on the day and make it worse, knowing I can't prepare for it.

ShaShaBear

December2012 wrote: »

Have a chat with your registrar and see what can be done. Can you have a security person remove anybody causing trouble or not on a list?

Im not sure if we can have people removed for disturbing things, but we were told that the ceremony is lawfully open to the public. What I'm worried about is that someone will gain entry as they are legally allowed to and then make a move to destroy or taint things knowing full well they could be removed. My mind is going overboard and I know its pure paranoia but I wouldn't put it past this person to do something that could be easily explained as an accident or a fluke so we're powerless.

intheclouds

Why don't you pull the ceremony back by a couple of hours and just have a small ceremony with witnesses and no one else then carry on and have reception at the agreed time?

Genuinely, if anyone shows up and misbehaves during the ceremony it is only themselves who will come off looking bad.

Aineoil

Is there a family member willing to mediate between parties? I know it's a long shot.

ShaShaBear

intheclouds wrote: »

Why don't you pull the ceremony back by a couple of hours and just have a small ceremony with witnesses and no one else then carry on and have reception at the agreed time?

Genuinely, if anyone shows up and misbehaves during the ceremony it is only themselves who will come off looking bad.

I don't think we can change the time now as it's done through the HSE and the solemniser is travelling from Cavan. I'd hazard that 12 days is probably a bit short notice to be giving them to alter it and then we'd have to contact all of the guests we DO want there to tell them of the change.

ShaShaBear

Aineoil wrote: »

Is there a family member willing to mediate between parties? I know it's a long shot.

Nope. My family members have been directly targeted by some of the rumours. And everyone on his side of the family is of the belief that we are in the wrong and refuse to speak to us. The person instigating the trouble rang a friend of my partner's demanding he make my OH fix this and he considered offering to mediate until my OH's family called him a "despicable interfering liar with mental health issues" when he told them what had been said to him over the phone. He's since decided he will have nothing more to do with them.

I can't really give more info without making myself identifiable, but please rest assured that what is being said about us couldn't possibly be ANY more offensive and dangerous to our reputation as parents and as professionals.

intheclouds

Then hire a couple of security guys to sit in on the ceremony and nip any misbehaviour in the bud before it escalates.

They can restrain or throw someone out if necessary. Just get them to wear suits and act like guests. You'll no doubt find a couple of guys to do a daytime nixer by asking local bouncers or shop security guards.

What exactly do you think someone will do? A bit of shouting? Physical violence?

fits

Im really sorry this is happening ShaSha. It sounds horrendous.

ShaShaBear

intheclouds wrote: »

Then hire a couple of security guys to sit in on the ceremony and nip any misbehaviour in the bud before it escalates.

They can restrain or throw someone out if necessary. Just get them to wear suits and act like guests. You'll no doubt find a couple of guys to do a daytime nixer by asking local bouncers or shop security guards.

What exactly do you think someone will do? A bit of shouting? Physical violence?

I would easily expect shouting and obscenities, and wouldn't by any means rule out an attempt at violence. I didn't know I was able to hire security for a civil wedding and have them put people out. That's why I was asking - to find out how much control I have over this whole "open to the public thing". Like at what point they can't get away with it, in which case the damage will likely have been done

Loveinapril

I am so sorry this is happening to you. Is there any way you could contact the officient and ask their advice? They may be able to give you options or be flexible with their timing.

ShaShaBear

Loveinapril wrote: »

I am so sorry this is happening to you. Is there any way you could contact the officient and ask their advice? They may be able to give you options or be flexible with their timing.

We do have to attend to change our witness. Ironically the person that kicked most of this off :rolleyes: so I will indeed ask what they think. I'll get the OH to mention it though, I'd be a blubbering wreck.

Aineoil

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Nope. My family members have been directly targeted by some of the rumours. And everyone on his side of the family is of the belief that we are in the wrong and refuse to speak to us. The person instigating the trouble rang a friend of my partner's demanding he make my OH fix this and he considered offering to mediate until my OH's family called him a "despicable interfering liar with mental health issues" when he told them what had been said to him over the phone. He's since decided he will have nothing more to do with them.

I can't really give more info without making myself identifiable, but please rest assured that what is being said about us couldn't possibly be ANY more offensive and dangerous to our reputation as parents and as professionals.

No, certainly don't give out any more info. Ireland is too small and you might be identified.

I honestly don't know how to advise you. It sounds like a complete nightmare.

Best of luck to you.

Loveinapril

ShaShaBear wrote: »

We do have to attend to change our witness. Ironically the person that kicked most of this off :rolleyes: so I will indeed ask what they think. I'll get the OH to mention it though, I'd be a blubbering wreck.

I really hope they can help you. Even a half hour earlier could ease your stress.the reception would be easier to police but you are right, the fact that legally the ceremoney has to be open to the public is screwing you here.

intheclouds

Well being open to the public doesn't mean people can breach the peace!

A concerned citizen (your private security) would certainly be within their rights to restrain/remove someone breaking the law until the guards were called.

That's why you're better off hiring someone who will actually just restrain/remove someone and won't get in a physical fight like a friend or relative might.

If I walked into a public park and started shouting at someone or threatening violence the Guards would be called. Same thing except in this case you have someone get them out of the room. The mere sight of 2 large men approaching might put a stop to someone's gallop anyway.

ShaShaBear

intheclouds wrote: »

Well being open to the public doesn't mean people can breach the peace!

A concerned citizen (your private security) would certainly be within their rights to restrain/remove someone breaking the law until the guards were called.

That's why you're better off hiring someone who will actually just restrain/remove someone and won't get in a physical fight like a friend or relative might.

If I walked into a public park and started shouting at someone or threatening violence the Guards would be called. Same thing except in this case you have someone get them out of the room. The mere sight of 2 large men approaching might put a stop to someone's gallop anyway.

That's very, very true. A guest at the wedding used to be in that line of business so he might be able to point me in the right direction. At this stage I am very much aware of becoming a bridezilla over pure paranoia but I would feel better knowing someone trained to spot trouble before it happens is keeping an eye on things - don't know why I never thought of it!

intheclouds

I do think it's unlikely someone would interrupt your wedding in this manner. They would be on camera and you'd be able to prosecute them for harassment, breach of the peace, possibly public intoxication etc...

Another alternative would be to fly somewhere you can get married with no notice next weekend (like Vegas) come back secretly married and cancel the HSE ceremony and just have the reception.

liquoriceall

I will be honest if the person has said dangerous lies about you would you not just go to the guards?

ShaShaBear

intheclouds wrote: »

I do think it's unlikely someone would interrupt your wedding in this manner. They would be on camera and you'd be able to prosecute them for harassment, breach of the peace, possibly public intoxication etc...

Another alternative would be to fly somewhere you can get married with no notice next weekend (like Vegas) come back secretly married and cancel the HSE ceremony and just have the reception.

They are extremely spiteful, but not very clever.
I'd not really like to do that if I'm totally honest. I'd be more inclined to completely cancel and reschedule rather than do that, I really do want my family and our friends there, especially my kids.

Aineoil

intheclouds wrote: »

I do think it's unlikely someone would interrupt your wedding in this manner. They would be on camera and you'd be able to prosecute them for harassment, breach of the peace, possibly public intoxication etc...

Another alternative would be to fly somewhere you can get married with no notice next weekend (like Vegas) come back secretly married and cancel the HSE ceremony and just have the reception.

I thought the same. Get married somewhere else and still proceed with the reception. Timing is tight though and the stress of it would have me demented.

ShaShaBear

liquoriceall wrote: »

I will be honest if the person has said dangerous lies about you would you not just go to the guards?

We have met with a solicitor on the subject and have started recording all calls but unfortunately with regards to words said, it's our word against theirs and they are very quick to deny completely when confronted. We'd probably be told it was a civil matter at this stage.

Pro Hoc Vice

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Nope. My family members have been directly targeted by some of the rumours. And everyone on his side of the family is of the belief that we are in the wrong and refuse to speak to us. The person instigating the trouble rang a friend of my partner's demanding he make my OH fix this and he considered offering to mediate until my OH's family called him a "despicable interfering liar with mental health issues" when he told them what had been said to him over the phone. He's since decided he will have nothing more to do with them.

I can't really give more info without making myself identifiable, but please rest assured that what is being said about us couldn't possibly be ANY more offensive and dangerous to our reputation as parents and as professionals.

It seems the family member is defaming both you and OH. Might be worth having a chat with a solicitor maybe section 33 of the defamation act 2009, might be of assistance.

Aineoil

ShaShaBear wrote: »

They are extremely spiteful, but not very clever.
I'd not really like to do that if I'm totally honest. I'd be more inclined to completely cancel and reschedule rather than do that, I really do want my family and our friends there, especially my kids.

Might be a good idea to cancel. It may set a marker out that you won't be pushed around.

ShaShaBear

Aineoil wrote: »

Might be a good idea to cancel. It may set a marker out that you won't be pushed around.

Id be more worried that it would set the marker that they can get what they want if they push hard enough. No wedding is precisely what they are hoping for here

intheclouds

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Id be more worried that it would set the marker that they can get what they want if they push hard enough. No wedding is precisely what they are hoping for here

Why don't you announce that you've been to Vegas and got married and that reception will still go ahead on date as planned.

Then secretly tell select few that ceremony is still on and to be there.

uck51js9zml2yt

Aineoil wrote: »

Might be a good idea to cancel. It may set a marker out that you won't be pushed around.

Would cancelling not say that they had won!!

ShaShaBear

intheclouds wrote: »

Why don't you announce that you've been to Vegas and got married and that reception will still go ahead on date as planned.

Then secretly tell select few that ceremony is still on and to be there.

That's actually an infallible idea. Thank you!

hatrickpatrick

This is a horrible story indeed. What grounds are there for the law which states that a civil wedding must be open to the public? Strikes me as tailor made to enable this kind of sh!te. What's the thinking behind not allowing people to do this in private and have complete control over their own guest list...?

Whatever you do don't cancel, that sends the message that you can be bullied, which is not a reputation you want especially if this feud looks like it will continue for some time.

Aineoil

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Id be more worried that it would set the marker that they can get what they want if they push hard enough. No wedding is precisely what they are hoping for here

Sorry, I didn't realise that no wedding was their objective. I wish you the best and it's awful that you have to deal with this before your marriage.

Sleeper12

I can't answer your question but I'd like to say something here anyway. At a wedding anything can go wrong. Wedding car not turn up & you have to jump in a taxi. Anything really. After the wedding you can say that the limo driver ruined your day or you can laugh it off & have this as a funny story you can tell the grand kids about in years to come.
I guess a limo driver is the least of your worries but my point is its up to you if you let things you can't control ruin your day. Stay positive, hold your head up high & have a ball.
Sincerely wishing you both a wonderful future together.

ShaShaBear

Aineoil wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't realise that no wedding was their objective. I wish you the best and it's awful that you have to deal with this before your marriage.

My fault for not stating it Didn't want to include too much obvious information, but the intent behind this was to leave me with two choices - have no-one there, or have no wedding. It would be a submission if I cancelled it.

Aineoil

ShaShaBear wrote: »

My fault for not stating it Didn't want to include too much obvious information, but the intent behind this was to leave me with two choices - have no-one there, or have no wedding. It would be a submission if I cancelled it.

No worries. I totally understand. I was in a similar situation 27 years ago. My mother-in-law told us our wedding wasn't well timed for her.

She went from telling me that no one from my husband's side of the family would attend the wedding to giving me a list of her relatives that I should invite that were so unrelated to her.

To cut a long story short we went ahead with the wedding. She was terse, rude and a pain in the behind the whole day.

She made a bit of a show of herself on the day to be honest.

ShaShaBear

Aineoil wrote: »

No worries. I totally understand. I was in a similar situation 27 years ago. My mother-in-law told us our wedding wasn't well timed for her.

She went from telling me that no one from my husband's side of the family would attend the wedding to giving me a list of her relatives that I should invite that were so unrelated to her.

To cut a long story short we went ahead with the wedding. She was terse, rude and a pain in the behind the whole day.

She made a bit of a show of herself on the day to be honest.

Well none of the immediate family are going, or rather, they are not invited. But I wouldn't put it past one or two of them. However, everyone that IS going knows who they are and will spot them a mile off.

Harika

You won't be able to stop shouting or profanities, but you could increase the threshold for them to speak out. I was thinking of getting some TV cameras with an RTE sticker on the side and film the whole ceremony. To appear on national news might not sound too appealing for them, so they might chicken out. Also get people on your side briefed on the situation and that it might become necessary to remove those intruders as quickly and efficient as possible. Ask the hotel if they could provide security, what could make the hotel go several ways as they don't like bad PR in general.
We had the fear at our wedding that someone might go haywire, so I briefed the groomsmen and some guests, that in the worst case they will deal with it. Nothing happened, but it gave us a piece of mind that a plan was in place for that.

Edit: Air horns are louder than humans.

JuliusCaesar

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Yes of course you do. Where are you having your wedding? In the Registrars Office or a hotel?

How exactly?

freshpopcorn

I could be totally wrong about this but if your started making a big deal about needing security for you wedding to the hotel could the hotel cancel in fear ye were trouble.
I'm just basing this on hearing that sometimes hotels can cancel if their dodgy of the family. As all ready said I could be totally wrong about this!

ShaShaBear

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I could be totally wrong about this but if your started making a big deal about needing security for you wedding to the hotel could the hotel cancel in fear ye were trouble.
I'm just basing this on hearing that sometimes hotels can cancel if their dodgy of the family. As all ready said I could be totally wrong about this!

It's a small enough wedding even before the drop-outs and I'm only really concerned about one or two people, both of which wouldn't last a second on their own. But I wouldn't be going for mental security, just a physically imposing guy in a nice suit sitting with the other guests and keeping an eye out for trouble.

Toots

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I could be totally wrong about this but if your started making a big deal about needing security for you wedding to the hotel could the hotel cancel in fear ye were trouble.
I'm just basing this on hearing that sometimes hotels can cancel if their dodgy of the family. As all ready said I could be totally wrong about this!

To be honest I'd say it'd need to be really bad for the hotel to pull out this close to the day. My aunt used to work in a very popular wedding hotel and by all accounts it wasn't at all uncommon for couples to ask the hotel for help removing potentially troublesome people who might show up uninvited.

ShaShaBear

Toots wrote: »

To be honest I'd say it'd need to be really bad for the hotel to pull out this close to the day. My aunt used to work in a very popular wedding hotel and by all accounts it wasn't at all uncommon for couples to ask the hotel for help removing potentially troublesome people who might show up uninvited.

I definitely can't imagine it's all that uncommon for a bride and groom to name one family member that they wouldn't put it past. We definitely wouldn't be talking about a serious beef-up of security like earpieces and people all over the place with walkie-talkies. I would hope that if I have to resort to that (if things get worse, I will) that no-one will know he is there unless he has to take action.

freshpopcorn

I can't really comment on this situation but I have heard of people saying their going to ruin people's weddings/etc and in general nothing happens and if somebody is going to have a little melt down during the ceremony it will probably still happen with the security guy their!

freedominacup

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is a horrible story indeed. What grounds are there for the law which states that a civil wedding must be open to the public? Strikes me as tailor made to enable this kind of sh!te. What's the thinking behind not allowing people to do this in private and have complete control over their own guest list...?

Whatever you do don't cancel, that sends the message that you can be bullied, which is not a reputation you want especially if this feud looks like it will continue for some time.

All weddings not just civil ones.

hatrickpatrick

Harika wrote: »

I was thinking of getting some TV cameras with an RTE sticker on the side and film the whole ceremony. To appear on national news might not sound too appealing for them, so they might chicken out.

This is just deliciously genius.

hatrickpatrick

freedominacup wrote: »

All weddings not just civil ones.

But why? Surely it should be up to the parties involved to decide who gets to see their wedding...?

Thoie

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

But why? Surely it should be up to the parties involved to decide who gets to see their wedding...?

It's to prevent things like bigamy. If I'm already married to you (surprise!!), I can't go off and have a totally secret ceremony to marry someone else at the same time. Having the area open to the public allows you to turn up and object.

TheChizler

Very off topic but how do high profile people get away with having totally closed off ceremonies in that case?