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Is appealing worth it?

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  • 17-08-2016 12:55pm
    #1
    Samurai12
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭


    I want to view my chemistry and physics results and possibly appeal them. But I was told that subjects like English and Irish and most languages are better to appeal due to the nature of those exams. And that exams like chemistry or physics are harder to appeal due to their yes or no nature.
    So I juat want to ask people who have appealed before is it worth it?

    Also I am 10 points off my second choice which i really want and I feel like if i appeal it, by the time i get my results i would have missed out on things such as Freshers Week and such which I feel are kind of important.
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    #2
    WorthlessPeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 159 ✭✭WorthlessPeon


    Samurai12 wrote: »
    I want to view my chemistry and physics results and possibly appeal them. But I was told that subjects like English and Irish and most languages are better to appeal due to the nature of those exams. And that exams like chemistry or physics are harder to appeal due to their yes or no nature.
    So I juat want to ask people who have appealed before is it worth it?

    Also I am 10 points off my second choice which i really want and I feel like if i appeal it, by the time i get my results i would have missed out on things such as Freshers Week and such which I feel are kind of important.
    Do you mind if I ask what you got? I'm disappointed with Physics and Chemistry myself


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    #3
    AtLeastITried
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭AtLeastITried


    Samurai12 wrote: »
    I want to view my chemistry and physics results and possibly appeal them. But I was told that subjects like English and Irish and most languages are better to appeal due to the nature of those exams. And that exams like chemistry or physics are harder to appeal due to their yes or no nature.
    So I juat want to ask people who have appealed before is it worth it?

    Also I am 10 points off my second choice which i really want and I feel like if i appeal it, by the time i get my results i would have missed out on things such as Freshers Week and such which I feel are kind of important.

    Read over all the papers you can or want to with your teachers in the school as it's free and then you can see what percentage you got and your teacher can advise you on whether or not you will realistically be bumped up


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    #4
    Samurai12
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Samurai12


    WorthlessPeon wrote: »
    Do you mind if I ask what you got? I'm disappointed with Physics and Chemistry myself
    I got 465 and I am 10 points of Computer Science in UCD. I got a B1 in physics and a C2 in chemistry. But i was so sure of getting an A2 in physics and around a B2/B3 in chemistry


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    #5
    Wanderer41
    Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭Wanderer41


    Ask to view all of your papers, even those you are happy with. Go through each one to see if there are any marks omitted or left out. Things like biology and chemistry are easier to check for incorrect markings. I was 3 marks off an A1 in chemistry, I found a few mistakes, sent it off, and got my A1. There is no harm in viewing them and seeing if it is worthwhile to appeal.


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    #6
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Samurai12 wrote: »
    I want to view my chemistry and physics results and possibly appeal them. But I was told that subjects like English and Irish and most languages are better to appeal due to the nature of those exams. And that exams like chemistry or physics are harder to appeal due to their yes or no nature.

    There's no such thing as a subject that's easier or harder to appeal. There are either extra marks there or there aren't. If you really want to see if anything is worth appealing request to view all of your papers and go through all of them. No point just picking random subjects.

    Samurai12 wrote: »
    So I juat want to ask people who have appealed before is it worth it?

    You don't get sympathy marks on an appeal. If you send back a paper for appeal the entire paper is corrected from scratch. If something was missed the first time and is in the marking scheme and merits marks, it will be awarded marks. If you are 1 mark off an A1 and you appeal it you will not be brought up to an A1 automatically just because you sent it back. You will not be upgraded just because you appealed, there has to be something there that merits marks that was not given marks the first time.

    I view scripts with students every year. Before viewing some students swear blind 'I definitely know I did better than a C2' and when you start going through the paper, it becomes obvious that they didn't do better. Students leave out parts of questions, the essay they wrote for a 3 mark question got zero because they didn't answer the question that was asked. Go through your papers objectively, if the answer isn't in your paper you won't get the marks. Ideally you should have a teacher of that subject with you. They don't turn up of their own accord, you will need to ask them. It's in their free time and they don't get paid for it, so don't make assumptions that they have nothing better to do with their time.

    Samurai12 wrote: »
    Also I am 10 points off my second choice which i really want and I feel like if i appeal it, by the time i get my results i would have missed out on things such as Freshers Week and such which I feel are kind of important.


    The points might drop on Monday, nobody knows. The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.


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    #7
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.

    Christ.

    Freshers week is good fun and helps with meeting people - in a university like UCD this is vital to surviving the next 4 years.

    The social aspect of college is just as important as the academic.

    +1 to Wanderer41's advice.


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    #8
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Christ.

    Freshers week is good fun and helps with meeting people - in a university like UCD this is vital to surviving the next 4 years.

    The social aspect of college is just as important as the academic.

    +1 to Wanderer41's advice.

    "I could have appealed to get my first choice and started it late, but now I'm stuck doing a course I don't have much interest in because going on the piss for Freshers Week was more important"


    Social aspect of college is important, but students frequently drop out of college because they don't like the course they are on. No social life if they are not doing the right course.


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    #9
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    "I could have appealed to get my first choice and started it late, but now I'm stuck doing a course I don't have much interest in because going on the piss for Freshers Week was more important"

    Thats really not what the OP said at all.

    No one knows if they will like their course before they get into it - late starters or not.

    Sometimes having good pals is the thing that helps when people are having course compatibility issues.

    I dont remember much about classes, timetables, subjects etc....but more than 20 years later Im still friends with some of the people I met in Freshers week.


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    #10
    WorthlessPeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 159 ✭✭WorthlessPeon


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    There's no such thing as a subject that's easier or harder to appeal. There are either extra marks there or there aren't. If you really want to see if anything is worth appealing request to view all of your papers and go through all of them. No point just picking random subjects.




    You don't get sympathy marks on an appeal. If you send back a paper for appeal the entire paper is corrected from scratch. If something was missed the first time and is in the marking scheme and merits marks, it will be awarded marks. If you are 1 mark off an A1 and you appeal it you will not be brought up to an A1 automatically just because you sent it back. You will not be upgraded just because you appealed, there has to be something there that merits marks that was not given marks the first time.

    I view scripts with students every year. Before viewing some students swear blind 'I definitely know I did better than a C2' and when you start going through the paper, it becomes obvious that they didn't do better. Students leave out parts of questions, the essay they wrote for a 3 mark question got zero because they didn't answer the question that was asked. Go through your papers objectively, if the answer isn't in your paper you won't get the marks. Ideally you should have a teacher of that subject with you. They don't turn up of their own accord, you will need to ask them. It's in their free time and they don't get paid for it, so don't make assumptions that they have nothing better to do with their time.





    The points might drop on Monday, nobody knows. The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.
    Relax there, people are upset, show some empathy.


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    #11
    Samurai12
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Samurai12


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    There's no such thing as a subject that's easier or harder to appeal. There are either extra marks there or there aren't. If you really want to see if anything is worth appealing request to view all of your papers and go through all of them. No point just picking random subjects.




    You don't get sympathy marks on an appeal. If you send back a paper for appeal the entire paper is corrected from scratch. If something was missed the first time and is in the marking scheme and merits marks, it will be awarded marks. If you are 1 mark off an A1 and you appeal it you will not be brought up to an A1 automatically just because you sent it back. You will not be upgraded just because you appealed, there has to be something there that merits marks that was not given marks the first time.

    I view scripts with students every year. Before viewing some students swear blind 'I definitely know I did better than a C2' and when you start going through the paper, it becomes obvious that they didn't do better. Students leave out parts of questions, the essay they wrote for a 3 mark question got zero because they didn't answer the question that was asked. Go through your papers objectively, if the answer isn't in your paper you won't get the marks. Ideally you should have a teacher of that subject with you. They don't turn up of their own accord, you will need to ask them. It's in their free time and they don't get paid for it, so don't make assumptions that they have nothing better to do with their time.





    The points might drop on Monday, nobody knows. The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.
    Thanks for the advice. I know what appealing an exam entails, I was jut stating what I had heard. I don't plan on going drinking or anything freshers week. Its just that i think that those first couple of weeks are important in terms of making friends, settling into college, getting accommodation and materials. I know all these things can be done later anyway but i would rather do them early and get them over with. But If I miss the first couple of weeks, its not the end of the world.


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    #12
    LC2016
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭LC2016


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    There's no such thing as a subject that's easier or harder to appeal. There are either extra marks there or there aren't. If you really want to see if anything is worth appealing request to view all of your papers and go through all of them. No point just picking random subjects.

    .
    I would've thought there'd be a greater chance of English increasing since it's a personal subjective opinion of a piece of writing over the likes of Biology where's there's a set concrete marking scheme where it's either right/wrong.


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    #13
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    AtLeastITried wrote: »
    Read over all the papers you can or want to with your teachers in the school as it's free and then you can see what percentage you got and your teacher can advise you on whether or not you will realistically be bumped up
    This.
    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.
    I know where you're coming from, RBT, but many students who go to a college where they don't already know a few people would say that missing the first few weeks makes it tough to get to know people / make friends as people have kinda sorted into "friend groups" to an extent already.

    But while there is some truth in that, samurai, it just takes a bit of extra effort really if you find yourself in that position ... join a society or club, get involved, get to know people that way, and it soon escalates.


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    #14
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    Just to add - I know teachers of languages who say appeals are almost pointless (and the percentages that were upgraded in last year's LC reflect this). If someone opinion is that your essay is 49%, another examiner can't correct their opinion. Different story if they didn't follow the marking scheme. That's just what I've been told.


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    #15
    LC2016
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭LC2016


    dory wrote: »
    Just to add - I know teachers of languages who say appeals are almost pointless (and the percentages that were upgraded in last year's LC reflect this). If someone opinion is that your essay is 49%, another examiner can't correct their opinion. Different story if they didn't follow the marking scheme. That's just what I've been told.

    Oh really? I thought the marker was to start afresh and pretend as the previous marks didn't exist. For the junior cert I rechecked both maths and English and they both moved up from C's to B's. Is there any link between the JC appeals and LC appeals?


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    #16
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,142 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    LC2016 wrote: »
    For the junior cert I rechecked both maths and English and they both moved up from C's to B's. Is there any link between the JC appeals and LC appeals?
    Only in that they are both handled by SEC correctors.
    Leaving Cert exams tend to be out of a higher total than JC, so for each percentage point, more actual marks are needed.


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    #17
    Jdoe
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭Jdoe


    off topic question but just wondering does anyone know if the coursework is included in the scripts on the day for example history and DCG projects ?


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    #18
    swagmire
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭swagmire


    Jdoe wrote: »
    off topic question but just wondering does anyone know if the coursework is included in the scripts on the day for example history and DCG projects ?

    Yes and you even get the sheet which shows what mark you got on each part of the project. Looked at mine last year. Dcg project btw


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    #19
    Irish94
    Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Irish94


    View all your papers, all of them. I thought I had done better in DCG and Business so I decided to view them and told myself why not view all of them while I'm at it? Turns out while I was viewing my Honours Maths paper, I noticed I was one mark off an A2, yes one mark! There was no mistakes in the correcting of the paper, but I thought whoever corrected it the first time was fairly stingy not to find one more mark to bump me up a grade! So, I decided to appeal all three, and got my A2 in Honours Maths.

    I needed 5 more points to get my first choice so I needed at least one appeal to go my way! Thankfully it did, and I joined the course 8 weeks late, but hey, four years on and I've got my degree! :)


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    #20
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    As a teacher I tell all my students to view them even if they are happy. My sister went up from a B3 to a B1 in physics because the examiner totted wrong. Yup, that simple.

    Now not every case is that easy but the correctives are not infallible and you don't have to pay to look


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    #21
    LC2016
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭LC2016


    Are you allowed bring a calculator in?


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    #22
    Samurai12
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Samurai12


    LC2016 wrote: »
    Are you allowed bring a calculator in?
    Maybe? I am not sure because the sheet says no mobile phones, pens and pencils. So a non programmable calculator might be allowed


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    #23
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    LC2016 wrote: »
    Are you allowed bring a calculator in?
    Yes.
    Samurai12 wrote: »
    no mobile phones
    99.9% of which include cameras these days.
    Samurai12 wrote: »
    pens and pencils.
    which could be used to slyly amend or add a word here and there.

    "Oh look, I deserve more marks here!"

    A calculator for checking the calculations isn't a problem.

    Make sure not to add in marks which don't count e.g.

    "Answer two of the following three questions"

    Candidate answers all three, all three will be corrected but only the best two will score and be added in.


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    #24
    juniorcert
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭juniorcert


    Do people still view their scripts, even when they have enough points? I'm 10 points over last year's cut off point so all going well I should be OK Monday. However, I was surprised by one or two of my results and want to see what happened, but don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking if I already have enough points


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    #25
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    It's entirely up to yourself.

    If it's on your mind, go and view them ... you only get the one chance to do so.


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    #26
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    juniorcert wrote: »
    Do people still view their scripts, even when they have enough points? I'm 10 points over last year's cut off point so all going well I should be OK Monday. However, I was surprised by one or two of my results and want to see what happened, but don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking if I already have enough points

    View them. You'll regret it if you don't. I still regret not rechecking my french even though I had over 150 points to spare


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    #27
    everesteduc
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭everesteduc


    juniorcert wrote: »
    Do people still view their scripts, even when they have enough points? I'm 10 points over last year's cut off point so all going well I should be OK Monday. However, I was surprised by one or two of my results and want to see what happened, but don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking if I already have enough points

    Check them. You may have enough points for college but surprisingly some employers use Leaving Cert points as a cut off when dealing with graduate applications. So you could regret it in 3 or 4 years.


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    #28
    Reati
    Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭Reati


    WorthlessPeon wrote: »
    Relax there, people are upset, show some empathy.

    Why are you telling the poster to relax. That post is the true facts of the system. There is no sympathy marks. There is a marking scheme and you either got the marks or not. Empathy doesn't play a part.

    The advice here in there is fair. Go in, review all your papers and get advised on if the grades can be increased. If not, life lesson - you don't always get why you want in the real world. I hope you get what you want though.

    The comments about rag week are to be ignored. College life is about more than just the course. The social aspect can be important. Wasn't for me to be honest but the world is full of different people and just because the OP wants to be part of rag week, doesn't mean the course isn't important or given less focus.


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    #29
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Samurai12 wrote: »
    Maybe? I am not sure because the sheet says no mobile phones, pens and pencils. So a non programmable calculator might be allowed

    Calculator yes, no to the rest. You can leave your stuff outside the room and if you decide to appeal, and fill in the form, if you want to highlight a question where you should have got marks, you can fill in that form outside the room.

    E.g. in maths if Q1 asks you to add 3 + 2 and you wrote down 5 and got no marks, then I would write that onto the AP2 form "in Q1 I gave my answer as 5, which is the answer in the marking scheme and got no marks, and should have got 3 " or whatever. While an examiner will recorrect the entire paper, it's no harm to highlight the places you think you should have got marks to make sure they are not missed a second time!


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    #30
    LC2016
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭LC2016


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Calculator yes, no to the rest. You can leave your stuff outside the room and if you decide to appeal, and fill in the form, if you want to highlight a question where you should have got marks, you can fill in that form outside the room.

    E.g. in maths if Q1 asks you to add 3 + 2 and you wrote down 5 and got no marks, then I would write that onto the AP2 form "in Q1 I gave my answer as 5, which is the answer in the marking scheme and got no marks, and should have got 3 " or whatever. While an examiner will recorrect the entire paper, it's no harm to highlight the places you think you should have got marks to make sure they are not missed a second time!

    Will we get time to leave to fill out that form in between the reviewing of each paper or do we wait until after reviewing all 7?


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    #31
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    juniorcert wrote: »
    Do people still view their scripts, even when they have enough points? I'm 10 points over last year's cut off point so all going well I should be OK Monday. However, I was surprised by one or two of my results and want to see what happened, but don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking if I already have enough points

    Yes, when i'm checking papers with my students every year I see other students in who have far in excess of what they need for their college course going through their papers, everything from 'I'm sure I should I have got a C3 in a foreign language' to 'How many marks did I drop when I got the A1'. For some they are happy to have their first choice in college, however the way I see it is if you view your script and see an obvious error that would give you an upgrade why not go for it, it costs €40 but and on upgrade the fee is refunded. One of my students got an A2 in my subject last year, I checked her paper and it was an A1. She was a good 40 points off her first choice, and has taken the year out. She has since changed her mind about what she wants and that extra points will carry her into her new course of choice.

    The D1 in HL Irish that could be a C3 might not matter now, but will matter hugely down the line to the student who decides after finishing their degree that they want to be a primary school teacher and needs a HL C grade in Irish.

    Viewing costs nothing and the vast majority of papers are marked accurately, but when you only get one chance, it's free and takes up max 2 hours of your life, why not avail of the service?


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