Is appealing worth it?

Samurai12

I want to view my chemistry and physics results and possibly appeal them. But I was told that subjects like English and Irish and most languages are better to appeal due to the nature of those exams. And that exams like chemistry or physics are harder to appeal due to their yes or no nature.
So I juat want to ask people who have appealed before is it worth it?

Also I am 10 points off my second choice which i really want and I feel like if i appeal it, by the time i get my results i would have missed out on things such as Freshers Week and such which I feel are kind of important.

WorthlessPeon

Samurai12 wrote: »

I want to view my chemistry and physics results and possibly appeal them. But I was told that subjects like English and Irish and most languages are better to appeal due to the nature of those exams. And that exams like chemistry or physics are harder to appeal due to their yes or no nature.
So I juat want to ask people who have appealed before is it worth it?

Also I am 10 points off my second choice which i really want and I feel like if i appeal it, by the time i get my results i would have missed out on things such as Freshers Week and such which I feel are kind of important.

Do you mind if I ask what you got? I'm disappointed with Physics and Chemistry myself

AtLeastITried

Samurai12 wrote: »

I want to view my chemistry and physics results and possibly appeal them. But I was told that subjects like English and Irish and most languages are better to appeal due to the nature of those exams. And that exams like chemistry or physics are harder to appeal due to their yes or no nature.
So I juat want to ask people who have appealed before is it worth it?

Also I am 10 points off my second choice which i really want and I feel like if i appeal it, by the time i get my results i would have missed out on things such as Freshers Week and such which I feel are kind of important.

Read over all the papers you can or want to with your teachers in the school as it's free and then you can see what percentage you got and your teacher can advise you on whether or not you will realistically be bumped up

Samurai12

WorthlessPeon wrote: »

Do you mind if I ask what you got? I'm disappointed with Physics and Chemistry myself

I got 465 and I am 10 points of Computer Science in UCD. I got a B1 in physics and a C2 in chemistry. But i was so sure of getting an A2 in physics and around a B2/B3 in chemistry

Wanderer41

Ask to view all of your papers, even those you are happy with. Go through each one to see if there are any marks omitted or left out. Things like biology and chemistry are easier to check for incorrect markings. I was 3 marks off an A1 in chemistry, I found a few mistakes, sent it off, and got my A1. There is no harm in viewing them and seeing if it is worthwhile to appeal.

rainbowtrout

Samurai12 wrote: »

I want to view my chemistry and physics results and possibly appeal them. But I was told that subjects like English and Irish and most languages are better to appeal due to the nature of those exams. And that exams like chemistry or physics are harder to appeal due to their yes or no nature.

There's no such thing as a subject that's easier or harder to appeal. There are either extra marks there or there aren't. If you really want to see if anything is worth appealing request to view all of your papers and go through all of them. No point just picking random subjects.

Samurai12 wrote: »

So I juat want to ask people who have appealed before is it worth it?

You don't get sympathy marks on an appeal. If you send back a paper for appeal the entire paper is corrected from scratch. If something was missed the first time and is in the marking scheme and merits marks, it will be awarded marks. If you are 1 mark off an A1 and you appeal it you will not be brought up to an A1 automatically just because you sent it back. You will not be upgraded just because you appealed, there has to be something there that merits marks that was not given marks the first time.

I view scripts with students every year. Before viewing some students swear blind 'I definitely know I did better than a C2' and when you start going through the paper, it becomes obvious that they didn't do better. Students leave out parts of questions, the essay they wrote for a 3 mark question got zero because they didn't answer the question that was asked. Go through your papers objectively, if the answer isn't in your paper you won't get the marks. Ideally you should have a teacher of that subject with you. They don't turn up of their own accord, you will need to ask them. It's in their free time and they don't get paid for it, so don't make assumptions that they have nothing better to do with their time.

Samurai12 wrote: »

Also I am 10 points off my second choice which i really want and I feel like if i appeal it, by the time i get my results i would have missed out on things such as Freshers Week and such which I feel are kind of important.

The points might drop on Monday, nobody knows. The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.

intheclouds

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.

Christ.

Freshers week is good fun and helps with meeting people - in a university like UCD this is vital to surviving the next 4 years.

The social aspect of college is just as important as the academic.

+1 to Wanderer41's advice.

rainbowtrout

intheclouds wrote: »

Christ.

Freshers week is good fun and helps with meeting people - in a university like UCD this is vital to surviving the next 4 years.

The social aspect of college is just as important as the academic.

+1 to Wanderer41's advice.

"I could have appealed to get my first choice and started it late, but now I'm stuck doing a course I don't have much interest in because going on the piss for Freshers Week was more important"


Social aspect of college is important, but students frequently drop out of college because they don't like the course they are on. No social life if they are not doing the right course.

intheclouds

rainbowtrout wrote: »

"I could have appealed to get my first choice and started it late, but now I'm stuck doing a course I don't have much interest in because going on the piss for Freshers Week was more important"

Thats really not what the OP said at all.

No one knows if they will like their course before they get into it - late starters or not.

Sometimes having good pals is the thing that helps when people are having course compatibility issues.

I dont remember much about classes, timetables, subjects etc....but more than 20 years later Im still friends with some of the people I met in Freshers week.

WorthlessPeon

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's no such thing as a subject that's easier or harder to appeal. There are either extra marks there or there aren't. If you really want to see if anything is worth appealing request to view all of your papers and go through all of them. No point just picking random subjects.




You don't get sympathy marks on an appeal. If you send back a paper for appeal the entire paper is corrected from scratch. If something was missed the first time and is in the marking scheme and merits marks, it will be awarded marks. If you are 1 mark off an A1 and you appeal it you will not be brought up to an A1 automatically just because you sent it back. You will not be upgraded just because you appealed, there has to be something there that merits marks that was not given marks the first time.

I view scripts with students every year. Before viewing some students swear blind 'I definitely know I did better than a C2' and when you start going through the paper, it becomes obvious that they didn't do better. Students leave out parts of questions, the essay they wrote for a 3 mark question got zero because they didn't answer the question that was asked. Go through your papers objectively, if the answer isn't in your paper you won't get the marks. Ideally you should have a teacher of that subject with you. They don't turn up of their own accord, you will need to ask them. It's in their free time and they don't get paid for it, so don't make assumptions that they have nothing better to do with their time.





The points might drop on Monday, nobody knows. The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.

Relax there, people are upset, show some empathy.

Samurai12

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's no such thing as a subject that's easier or harder to appeal. There are either extra marks there or there aren't. If you really want to see if anything is worth appealing request to view all of your papers and go through all of them. No point just picking random subjects.




You don't get sympathy marks on an appeal. If you send back a paper for appeal the entire paper is corrected from scratch. If something was missed the first time and is in the marking scheme and merits marks, it will be awarded marks. If you are 1 mark off an A1 and you appeal it you will not be brought up to an A1 automatically just because you sent it back. You will not be upgraded just because you appealed, there has to be something there that merits marks that was not given marks the first time.

I view scripts with students every year. Before viewing some students swear blind 'I definitely know I did better than a C2' and when you start going through the paper, it becomes obvious that they didn't do better. Students leave out parts of questions, the essay they wrote for a 3 mark question got zero because they didn't answer the question that was asked. Go through your papers objectively, if the answer isn't in your paper you won't get the marks. Ideally you should have a teacher of that subject with you. They don't turn up of their own accord, you will need to ask them. It's in their free time and they don't get paid for it, so don't make assumptions that they have nothing better to do with their time.





The points might drop on Monday, nobody knows. The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.

Thanks for the advice. I know what appealing an exam entails, I was jut stating what I had heard. I don't plan on going drinking or anything freshers week. Its just that i think that those first couple of weeks are important in terms of making friends, settling into college, getting accommodation and materials. I know all these things can be done later anyway but i would rather do them early and get them over with. But If I miss the first couple of weeks, its not the end of the world.

LC2016

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's no such thing as a subject that's easier or harder to appeal. There are either extra marks there or there aren't. If you really want to see if anything is worth appealing request to view all of your papers and go through all of them. No point just picking random subjects.

.

I would've thought there'd be a greater chance of English increasing since it's a personal subjective opinion of a piece of writing over the likes of Biology where's there's a set concrete marking scheme where it's either right/wrong.

randylonghorn

AtLeastITried wrote: »

Read over all the papers you can or want to with your teachers in the school as it's free and then you can see what percentage you got and your teacher can advise you on whether or not you will realistically be bumped up

This.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The course can't be that important to you if Freshers Week is your priority. If you really want the course, Freshers Week wouldn't even feature in your list of priorities.

I know where you're coming from, RBT, but many students who go to a college where they don't already know a few people would say that missing the first few weeks makes it tough to get to know people / make friends as people have kinda sorted into "friend groups" to an extent already.

But while there is some truth in that, samurai, it just takes a bit of extra effort really if you find yourself in that position ... join a society or club, get involved, get to know people that way, and it soon escalates.

dory

Just to add - I know teachers of languages who say appeals are almost pointless (and the percentages that were upgraded in last year's LC reflect this). If someone opinion is that your essay is 49%, another examiner can't correct their opinion. Different story if they didn't follow the marking scheme. That's just what I've been told.

LC2016

dory wrote: »

Just to add - I know teachers of languages who say appeals are almost pointless (and the percentages that were upgraded in last year's LC reflect this). If someone opinion is that your essay is 49%, another examiner can't correct their opinion. Different story if they didn't follow the marking scheme. That's just what I've been told.

Oh really? I thought the marker was to start afresh and pretend as the previous marks didn't exist. For the junior cert I rechecked both maths and English and they both moved up from C's to B's. Is there any link between the JC appeals and LC appeals?

spurious

LC2016 wrote: »

For the junior cert I rechecked both maths and English and they both moved up from C's to B's. Is there any link between the JC appeals and LC appeals?

Only in that they are both handled by SEC correctors.
Leaving Cert exams tend to be out of a higher total than JC, so for each percentage point, more actual marks are needed.

Jdoe

off topic question but just wondering does anyone know if the coursework is included in the scripts on the day for example history and DCG projects ?

swagmire

Jdoe wrote: »

off topic question but just wondering does anyone know if the coursework is included in the scripts on the day for example history and DCG projects ?

Yes and you even get the sheet which shows what mark you got on each part of the project. Looked at mine last year. Dcg project btw

Irish94

View all your papers, all of them. I thought I had done better in DCG and Business so I decided to view them and told myself why not view all of them while I'm at it? Turns out while I was viewing my Honours Maths paper, I noticed I was one mark off an A2, yes one mark! There was no mistakes in the correcting of the paper, but I thought whoever corrected it the first time was fairly stingy not to find one more mark to bump me up a grade! So, I decided to appeal all three, and got my A2 in Honours Maths.

I needed 5 more points to get my first choice so I needed at least one appeal to go my way! Thankfully it did, and I joined the course 8 weeks late, but hey, four years on and I've got my degree!

mirrorwall14

As a teacher I tell all my students to view them even if they are happy. My sister went up from a B3 to a B1 in physics because the examiner totted wrong. Yup, that simple.

Now not every case is that easy but the correctives are not infallible and you don't have to pay to look

LC2016

Are you allowed bring a calculator in?

Samurai12

LC2016 wrote: »

Are you allowed bring a calculator in?

Maybe? I am not sure because the sheet says no mobile phones, pens and pencils. So a non programmable calculator might be allowed

randylonghorn

LC2016 wrote: »

Are you allowed bring a calculator in?

Yes.

Samurai12 wrote: »

no mobile phones

99.9% of which include cameras these days.

Samurai12 wrote: »

pens and pencils.

which could be used to slyly amend or add a word here and there.

"Oh look, I deserve more marks here!"

A calculator for checking the calculations isn't a problem.

Make sure not to add in marks which don't count e.g.

"Answer two of the following three questions"

Candidate answers all three, all three will be corrected but only the best two will score and be added in.

juniorcert

Do people still view their scripts, even when they have enough points? I'm 10 points over last year's cut off point so all going well I should be OK Monday. However, I was surprised by one or two of my results and want to see what happened, but don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking if I already have enough points

randylonghorn

It's entirely up to yourself.

If it's on your mind, go and view them ... you only get the one chance to do so.

mirrorwall14

juniorcert wrote: »

Do people still view their scripts, even when they have enough points? I'm 10 points over last year's cut off point so all going well I should be OK Monday. However, I was surprised by one or two of my results and want to see what happened, but don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking if I already have enough points

View them. You'll regret it if you don't. I still regret not rechecking my french even though I had over 150 points to spare

everesteduc

juniorcert wrote: »

Do people still view their scripts, even when they have enough points? I'm 10 points over last year's cut off point so all going well I should be OK Monday. However, I was surprised by one or two of my results and want to see what happened, but don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking if I already have enough points

Check them. You may have enough points for college but surprisingly some employers use Leaving Cert points as a cut off when dealing with graduate applications. So you could regret it in 3 or 4 years.

Reati

WorthlessPeon wrote: »

Relax there, people are upset, show some empathy.

Why are you telling the poster to relax. That post is the true facts of the system. There is no sympathy marks. There is a marking scheme and you either got the marks or not. Empathy doesn't play a part.

The advice here in there is fair. Go in, review all your papers and get advised on if the grades can be increased. If not, life lesson - you don't always get why you want in the real world. I hope you get what you want though.

The comments about rag week are to be ignored. College life is about more than just the course. The social aspect can be important. Wasn't for me to be honest but the world is full of different people and just because the OP wants to be part of rag week, doesn't mean the course isn't important or given less focus.

rainbowtrout

Samurai12 wrote: »

Maybe? I am not sure because the sheet says no mobile phones, pens and pencils. So a non programmable calculator might be allowed

Calculator yes, no to the rest. You can leave your stuff outside the room and if you decide to appeal, and fill in the form, if you want to highlight a question where you should have got marks, you can fill in that form outside the room.

E.g. in maths if Q1 asks you to add 3 + 2 and you wrote down 5 and got no marks, then I would write that onto the AP2 form "in Q1 I gave my answer as 5, which is the answer in the marking scheme and got no marks, and should have got 3 " or whatever. While an examiner will recorrect the entire paper, it's no harm to highlight the places you think you should have got marks to make sure they are not missed a second time!

LC2016

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Calculator yes, no to the rest. You can leave your stuff outside the room and if you decide to appeal, and fill in the form, if you want to highlight a question where you should have got marks, you can fill in that form outside the room.

E.g. in maths if Q1 asks you to add 3 + 2 and you wrote down 5 and got no marks, then I would write that onto the AP2 form "in Q1 I gave my answer as 5, which is the answer in the marking scheme and got no marks, and should have got 3 " or whatever. While an examiner will recorrect the entire paper, it's no harm to highlight the places you think you should have got marks to make sure they are not missed a second time!

Will we get time to leave to fill out that form in between the reviewing of each paper or do we wait until after reviewing all 7?

rainbowtrout

juniorcert wrote: »

Do people still view their scripts, even when they have enough points? I'm 10 points over last year's cut off point so all going well I should be OK Monday. However, I was surprised by one or two of my results and want to see what happened, but don't want to seem like I'm nitpicking if I already have enough points

Yes, when i'm checking papers with my students every year I see other students in who have far in excess of what they need for their college course going through their papers, everything from 'I'm sure I should I have got a C3 in a foreign language' to 'How many marks did I drop when I got the A1'. For some they are happy to have their first choice in college, however the way I see it is if you view your script and see an obvious error that would give you an upgrade why not go for it, it costs €40 but and on upgrade the fee is refunded. One of my students got an A2 in my subject last year, I checked her paper and it was an A1. She was a good 40 points off her first choice, and has taken the year out. She has since changed her mind about what she wants and that extra points will carry her into her new course of choice.

The D1 in HL Irish that could be a C3 might not matter now, but will matter hugely down the line to the student who decides after finishing their degree that they want to be a primary school teacher and needs a HL C grade in Irish.

Viewing costs nothing and the vast majority of papers are marked accurately, but when you only get one chance, it's free and takes up max 2 hours of your life, why not avail of the service?

rainbowtrout

LC2016 wrote: »

Will we get time to leave to fill out that form in between the reviewing of each paper or do we wait until after reviewing all 7?

Personally I (and student) fill them in as I go. You are only allowed view one paper at a time, e.g. you have to hand back your maths before they give you your irish. I guess it's to prevent a student slipping one into a bag/under a coat and heading out the door and changing it, you only have one on the desk in front of you at all times.

So if you review the maths, think it's worth an appeal, fill in the form and hand it back with the script, then move on to the next subject. Anyway if you review all 7 you probably won't remember what you need to write for the first one by the time you get to the last one. I usually leave a desk outside with a pen so if I see something that deserves marks I get a form and go out and write it down or get the student to write in the details and then continue the review of the paper.

siebey123

Stupid question I know, but we don't choose the date for viewing, right?

juniorcert

Thanks to those giving me advice on whether I should view scripts when I already have enough points, think I'll go ahead with it so, as one of you said, I only have one chance to see them

Samurai12

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yes, when i'm checking papers with my students every year I see other students in who have far in excess of what they need for their college course going through their papers, everything from 'I'm sure I should I have got a C3 in a foreign language' to 'How many marks did I drop when I got the A1'. For some they are happy to have their first choice in college, however the way I see it is if you view your script and see an obvious error that would give you an upgrade why not go for it, it costs €40 but and on upgrade the fee is refunded. One of my students got an A2 in my subject last year, I checked her paper and it was an A1. She was a good 40 points off her first choice, and has taken the year out. She has since changed her mind about what she wants and that extra points will carry her into her new course of choice.

The D1 in HL Irish that could be a C3 might not matter now, but will matter hugely down the line to the student who decides after finishing their degree that they want to be a primary school teacher and needs a HL C grade in Irish.

Viewing costs nothing and the vast majority of papers are marked accurately, but when you only get one chance, it's free and takes up max 2 hours of your life, why not avail of the service?

Do you seriously get refunded if you go up in points? Just curious as the form they gave us doesn't really say much.

spurious

Just to remind people, if your paper has already been corrected in red biro and then a second time in green, it has already been rechecked and a successful appeal is unlikely.

LC2016

spurious wrote: »

Just to remind people, if your paper has already been corrected in red biro and then a second time in green, it has already been rechecked and a successful appeal is unlikely.

What if the rechecked grade was different to the original?

spurious

LC2016 wrote: »

What if the rechecked grade was different to the original?

I'm not sure I understand the question.
If the original corrector (red) gave it a mark that would translate to a B2 and the Advising Examiner (green) changed it to a B3, then it is a B3.
It has already been rechecked.

Take Your Pants Off

What happens if one of your answers is marked illegible, yet some other teacher can read it and its right ?.

rainbowtrout

Samurai12 wrote: »

Do you seriously get refunded if you go up in points? Just curious as the form they gave us doesn't really say much.

Yes. If it goes up a grade (or down a grade, which is extremely rare) then you get refunded, the logic being, if it was corrected without mistakes the first time you would have got the better grade, so you get your money back.

rainbowtrout

Take Your Pants Off wrote: »

What happens if one of your answers is marked illegible, yet some other teacher can read it and its right ?.

To be fair any examiner that is correcting will try their best to read whatever is in front of them. An examiner will usually be able to figure out a word from the context of a sentence. Remember you can read your handwriting because you are used to it. Some students' handwriting is atrocious. If there is a genuine mistake that a key word in a sentence you wrote is the bit that gets the marks and you didn't get the marks because the examiner couldn't read it - your fault rather than theirs - I would probably go down the road of quoting that line on the AP2 form, but at the end of the day, it should be clear to the examiner what they are reading.

Take Your Pants Off

rainbowtrout wrote: »

To be fair any examiner that is correcting will try their best to read whatever is in front of them. An examiner will usually be able to figure out a word from the context of a sentence. Remember you can read your handwriting because you are used to it. Some students' handwriting is atrocious. If there is a genuine mistake that a key word in a sentence you wrote is the bit that gets the marks and you didn't get the marks because the examiner couldn't read it - your fault rather than theirs - I would probably go down the road of quoting that line on the AP2 form, but at the end of the day, it should be clear to the examiner what they are reading.

Thank you very much.
Just one last qs I had, I did not go to school to get my results, opened them online, my school said they should arrive by monday(the result script), i read the leaving cert 2016 appeal section and it says if i am not mistaken appeal aplication forms must be sent in by tuesday 23rd. When they send my results will I also receive a copy of both ap1 and ap2. Or would I have to go in school and get it there.

rainbowtrout

Take Your Pants Off wrote: »

Thank you very much.
Just one last qs I had, I did not go to school to get my results, opened them online, my school said they should arrive by monday(the result script), i read the leaving cert 2016 appeal section and it says if i am not mistaken appeal aplication forms must be sent in by tuesday 23rd. When they send my results will I also receice a copy of both ap1 and ap2. Or would I have to go in school and get it there.

I have no idea to be honest. AP1 and 2 are the forms you fill in if you are appealing after viewing your script. The form you are thinking of ( I don't know what the name of it is) is the request to view scripts. As they are pre printed I guess they come to the school with your results. I would assume they'll send it to you but you can confirm this by ringing your school Monday morning and checking if it has been posted or if you need to collect it

Take Your Pants Off

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I have no idea to be honest. AP1 and 2 are the forms you fill in if you are appealing after viewing your script. The form you are thinking of ( I don't know what the name of it is) is the request to view scripts. As they are pre printed I guess they come to the school with your results. I would assume they'll send it to you but you can confirm this by ringing your school Monday morning and checking if it has been posted or if you need to collect it

Yes sorry the form to view scripts. Thanks for the information.

JC43

My son is shy 13 points for UCD and 6 for Galway med.

He is going to look at scripts next weekend. We have seen the % of success appeals. Anyone know whats the % of adding errors .

Clutching at straws here

LC2016

http://www.thejournal.ie/leaving-cert-appeals-2372263-Oct2015/
Looking at last year's appeal success rate, over 23% of people who appealed in accounting were upgraded and 22.89% in maths and only 5 grades out of the 9809 appealed went down. I would say it's definitely worth a shot for people who are off by 5/10 points,

rainbowtrout

JC43 wrote: »

My son is shy 13 points for UCD and 6 for Galway med.

He is going to look at scripts next weekend. We have seen the % of success appeals. Anyone know whats the % of adding errors .

Clutching at straws here

I don't think I've ever seen those stats. They don't really matter anyway. Go and view the scripts and check for addition errors and if anything should have got marks that didn't. That's all you can do.

What did your son get points wise? Remember any points over 550 only get 1 point for every five points achieved. What does he realistically need to come up to get those 13 or 6 points?

Samurai12

Samurai12 wrote: »

I want to view my chemistry and physics results and possibly appeal them. But I was told that subjects like English and Irish and most languages are better to appeal due to the nature of those exams. And that exams like chemistry or physics are harder to appeal due to their yes or no nature.
So I juat want to ask people who have appealed before is it worth it?

Also I am 10 points off my second choice which i really want and I feel like if i appeal it, by the time i get my results i would have missed out on things such as Freshers Week and such which I feel are kind of important.

The first year that you could view your papers was in 1999 and I asked to view my Biology paper (now I have a Bio degree so I was suspicious of a C3 in Higher level)

There on the paper was my real mark and I got the C3 as a clerical error. It is worth checking but do NOT depend on it, as all my other papers (it was free to view them) were as described

JC43

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I don't think I've ever seen those stats. They don't really matter anyway. Go and view the scripts and check for addition errors and if anything should have got marks that didn't. That's all you can do.

What did your son get points wise? Remember any points over 550 only get 1 point for every five points achieved. What does he realistically need to come up to get those 13 or 6 points?

Bit of a disaster. Got 95th percentile in hpat and then 530 in LC . Don't know if it was nerves, unlucky or didn't put the work in. Went down a grade in every subject from the mocks. Even his Irish was b1 - went to gaelscoil. His hpat was great but said he couldn't pull it out of bag again as all his practice ones were some weeks 40 and the following weeks 80 . So the 95 was a shock.

WorthlessPeon

All marking schemes are on examinations.ie now for my fellow recheckers. Not a whole lot of good without your scripts but sure look..

LC2016

My school text us advising to print off our own marking schemes as there is only a small number offered by the SEC. For all 7 exams that I decided to look at, that equals 244 pages! Is it worth doing or do you think they are just being extra careful telling us to do so?