mentally ill man stabs people shouting allahu akbar

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Hating Islam doesn't make you anti Muslim.
Just to clarify, are you saying racism and/or sectarianism are mental illnesses?

In extreme cases I'd say it is very arguable. Shankhill butchers, the Norwegian guy Brevik?

Your normal, ordinary decent racist or sectarian? Just ignorant in both meanings of the word.

Lollipop95 wrote: »

Honestly...I don't suffer from mental illness but I'm tired of these evil psychopaths blaming their terrible actions on mental illness. At a time where the mental health community are trying to gather understanding amongst the public, they really don't need this. I've lost count of the amount of times some violent crime that's been carried out has been blamed on mental illness. Not every murder/rape/assault has been carried out because the perpetrator is mentally ill

Obviously, where does anyone make this kind of claim? The man in the attack didn't make any claim to be mentally ill either as far as I can see, authorities, the people who were actually there, said he has mental issues, is known to them for having ongoing mental issues.

Do people only read headlines or something these days?

Deleted User wrote: »

Not all acts of Muslim terrorism (or terrorism, in general) were carried out by people with mental health illnesses. Nobody is saying that. The attacks in Paris, for example. However attacks like this here, like the Sandy Hook shootings, like the Charleston Church shooting, were carried out by people who suffered from severe conditions.

Personally I'd say that removing the mental health aspect does more to damage to people with actual conditions, because it removes the need for these people to get the treatment they need. Fine, they were Muslim and that shouldn't be ignored either, but, in this instance, where the person was institutionalized, it should highlight that the services in place f*cked up by releasing him.

Unless the story has changed in the last hour, the man was in hospital, not institutionalised. And without knowing the specifics of why he was in or the circumstances of his discharge, there's no evidence to say people f*cked up.

Smondie wrote:

No I don't think they are mutually exclusive. What strategies have the mental health profession put in place to reduce reoccurance?

I presume this guy will be kept in a secure psychiatric unit. There is no blanket solution for mental health patients.

Do you have a solution?

Deleted User wrote: »

Widdershins wrote: »

I find it ironic that you say we're shutting down discussions as you singlehandely do it yourself.

But I guess we must be in the wrong, because we're not jumping on the muslim hating circle jerk that is happening?

At that point it looked like it was already making a rapid descent. Looking at the twisting of comments, it would have been a waste of time to even bother any further. Tedious is exactly what that was.

Smondie wrote:

Well he was in a psychiatric hospital and someone deemed him fit enough to be released.

On what basis was that judgement made and what strategies are in place to stop it reoccurring?

I live with someone who works in a forensic psychology with leaning difficulties unit in a hospital so I'll answer it on that basis.

Chances are that he was assessed as part of an ongoing process towards moving people with to the community. These moves are generally a great idea but are accompanied by a reduction in residential care places. Chances are that this guy had the 11th greatest needs in a unit with 10 residential places. He was probably moved to the community prematurely or with reservations expressed by his multi disciplinary team.

He could have been doing fibe and had a relapse, stopped taking his medication, medication related complication or a psychotic break. Equally he could have been manipulated by a terrorist fanatic.

This care the could have made a balls of it and sent him to the community when he should have been in care or any one of hundreds of other reasons.

I think here should be treated resources to allow those who need residential care to be treated and those who need to be transitioned to the community to be do so successful. That way you can focus on those who are the greatest risk and give the appropriate amount of freedom to the lowest risk patients.

What do you think should be done?

Smondie wrote:

Bed rest and art therapy

Can't believe I wasted my time giving a considered answer.

Is this more an anti Muslim thread or anti mental health thread?

Lollipop95 wrote: »

Honestly...I don't suffer from mental illness but I'm tired of these evil psychopaths blaming their terrible actions on mental illness. At a time where the mental health community are trying to gather understanding amongst the public, they really don't need this. I've lost count of the amount of times some violent crime that's been carried out has been blamed on mental illness. Not every murder/rape/assault has been carried out because the perpetrator is mentally ill

Well that's the thing about mental illness, its vast and vague and hard to define. An 'evil psychopath' who ends up commiting violence hasn't got a brain functioning the way it out ought to, it would be good if we could treat them. There's the palatable mental illnesses that are easier to deal with because people can talk about them and get some compassion (depression anxiety etc.) but then there are mental illness that put you on a different plane to society, pedos, psychopaths acting out violently some schizophrenics etc. They are actually in more need for help from society's point of view yet when it all comes to a head we say 'how can they have the gall to say they are mentally ill'. And ye won't see a a campaign to support people like that in getting help.

Brainwashing is another thing imo, it is in a sense a mental illness but i'd imagine there is a successful way of dealing with it, not the case with all mental illnesses.

Smondie wrote:

in this case I think giving him another way to express himself other than shouting allhu akbar while stabbing jews would have diffused his emotions.

Oh right.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They either do it or they don't. Where's the concern?

The concern would be about their trustworthiness with whatever probably limited information they had been given. Maybe, also, their ability to see the process through. A recent interview with a recruited jihadist turned informant, revealed that they had had a lot of jihadists backing out, in France (I think it was France). If they want to achieve their aims, that's not going to be of use to them. Why waste the time and take the risk connecting with a candidate with dubious ability to do what they want him to do?

Smondie wrote: »

Jewish rabbi is stabbed in Strasbourg by 'Muslim attacker who shouted "Allahu Akbar"'

The attacker, who has been arrested, shouted 'Allahu Akbar' - God is great - as he stabbed the 55-year-old man, Le Journal du Dimanche reported.

The attacker is believed to have a history of mental health issues.


Officers have ruled out a terror motive for the attack and believe the suspect has suffered serious mental health issues.

Strasbourg is in the north east of France, near the German border, and is a seat of the European Parliament.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3748782/Jewish-rabbi-stabbed-Strasbourg-Muslim-attacker.html#article-3748782

Europe seems to have major problems with mentally ill people stabbing people at the moment.


When are the mental health crowd going to step up and suggest solutions?

Ah yes, you started the other thread too, a few days ago, also with a sensationalist and demonising subject line.

If you start looking out for crimes being committed by mentally ill people it's going to look like there's a plague of it. I don't know whether there are actually more attacks happening, or there's just been a spate of them that have been particularly noticeable or if it's just the same amount and they're being reported and talked about more as people automatically wonder if there's an Islamic terrorist link in this particular case or not.

In short, because terrorist attacks have been going on over the past few years, violent and apparently-spontaneous/random crime specifically attracts attention. Mental illness being another potential contributory factor to that particular variety of crime means that we therefore notice more of that too.

It doesn't have to be a case of people cynically casting blame to suit a narrative. The above, if it's so, is no-one's fault, just a natural response to unease.