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Buses are the most inefficient mode of public transport

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  • 09-08-2016 6:02pm
    #1
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭


    A regular occurrence but today took the biscuit. About 15 minutes ago I was waiting to get a 16 from Camden St heading southbound. Packed bus arrives, 3 get off, so only 3 are allowed on by the driver. I'm fortunate to be one of those 3. When I got on I said to him that I guarantee there are seats upstairs. He says very matter of factly that there are no seats. I squeeze through the gobsh1tes standing downstairs at the front of the bus, head upstairs to find 6 seats not being used. 6 people have to wait another 20 minutes for a bus because 1) the driver is too lazy to look in his camera to see seats available, 2) the driver is too lazy to tell people to move upstairs and 3) because people are idiots and prefer to clog up the standing room when there are seats available.

    Any transport system where one effectively needs permission off the driver to board is highly ineffective. With a metro or tram the laws of physics determine if you board, not poor interpretation by a driver.

    We really have a joke of a public transport system here.


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    #2
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,579 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    A regular occurrence but today took the biscuit. About 15 minutes ago I was waiting to get a 16 from Camden St heading southbound. Packed bus arrives, 3 get off, so only 3 are allowed on by the driver. I'm fortunate to be one of those 3. When I got on I said to him that I guarantee there are seats upstairs. He says very matter of factly that there are no seats. I squeeze through the gobsh1tes standing downstairs at the front of the bus, head upstairs to find 6 seats not being used. 6 people have to wait another 20 minutes for a bus because 1) the driver is too lazy to look in his camera to see seats available, 2) the driver is too lazy to tell people to move upstairs and 3) because people are idiots and prefer to clog up the standing room when there are seats available.

    Any transport system where one effectively needs permission off the driver to board is highly ineffective. With a metro or tram the laws of physics determine if you board, not poor interpretation by a driver.

    We really have a joke of a public transport system here.

    And how exactly do you expect the driver to know precisely how many seats are left upstairs if people don't move? He has a small screen - that's the only way he can see upstairs.

    I've been on plenty of buses where people still haven't moved despite the driver exhorting them to move upstairs.

    In the main, reason 3 is exactly the problem - particularly those people who insist on standing between the stairs and the front door and steadfastly refuse to move back into the bus as people get off.


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    #3
    StreetLight
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    OP, do not assume the driver is lazy. Depending on the model of bus and the quality of CCTV camera installed, the driver's view may be restricted. Newer types of bus have a monitor screen at the stairwell to assists standees indentify spare seats in the upper saloon.

    The driver has a difficult enough job trying to juggle the amount of 'gobsh1tes' the bus can hold without being assumed to be lazy. It says more about the idiots who have to have their hand held into doing what's obvious to the rest of us.


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    #4
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Driver can't be arsed is the most common cause. You're lucky he didn't pull in 20 feet past the stop to let those three off without taking anyone else on

    Although drivers aren't allowed to let passengers off anywhere other than bus stops...unless it suits them ;)


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    #5
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    What happens 9/10 is someone walks up the stairs, to the top of them, looks towards the back, decides there is no seats there, when actually there is about 4-5, walks back down.

    Every. Single. Time.

    on a busy bus.


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    #6
    KD345
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭KD345


    The bigger issue here is the 16 badly needs a higher frequency right across the day than it currently has.


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    #7
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,434 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    You saying the bus was packed kind of contradicts the claim that it's inefficient.


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    #8
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    A regular occurrence but today took the biscuit. About 15 minutes ago I was waiting to get a 16 from Camden St heading southbound. Packed bus arrives, 3 get off, so only 3 are allowed on by the driver. I'm fortunate to be one of those 3. When I got on I said to him that I guarantee there are seats upstairs. He says very matter of factly that there are no seats. I squeeze through the gobsh1tes standing downstairs at the front of the bus, head upstairs to find 6 seats not being used. 6 people have to wait another 20 minutes for a bus because 1) the driver is too lazy to look in his camera to see seats available, 2) the driver is too lazy to tell people to move upstairs and 3) because people are idiots and prefer to clog up the standing room when there are seats available.

    Any transport system where one effectively needs permission off the driver to board is highly ineffective. With a metro or tram the laws of physics determine if you board, not poor interpretation by a driver.

    We really have a joke of a public transport system here.

    We do indeed...don't we..?

    However it's not ALL bad news,as we can be engage in a group-hug with our former European partners over in London....;)

    https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/april/upper-deck-seat-indicator-trial-extended-to-route-59
    This new technology is aimed at increasing utilisation of the whole bus and to make passengers journeys more comfortable by encouraging them to go upstairs, rather than standing on the lower deck, which at the busiest times can prevent other passengers from boarding.
    With a metro or tram the laws of physics determine if you board, not poor interpretation by a driver.

    Mind you,as a regular Luas Red Line user,I'm OK going with the Busdrivers "poor interpretation" rather than the actual laws of physics,which often prevail there....:D


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #9
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,579 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Interesting technology there Alek - good to see.

    But you will still get people who resolutely refuse to go upstairs.


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    #10
    ahlookit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭ahlookit


    devnull wrote: »
    What happens 9/10 is someone walks up the stairs, to the top of them, looks towards the back, decides there is no seats there, when actually there is about 4-5, walks back down.

    Every. Single. Time.

    on a busy bus.

    good to see that technology in London busses - couldnt understand why they never put sensors in seats upstairs and an LED on the ceiling over each seat, something similar to parking spaces in Dundrum. Just a red/green light to indicate if the seat is occupied. Can be hard to see from the stairs if each seat is taken down towards the back


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    #11
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    devnull wrote: »
    What happens 9/10 is someone walks up the stairs, to the top of them, looks towards the back, decides there is no seats there, when actually there is about 4-5, walks back down.

    Every. Single. Time.

    on a busy bus.

    That's because some people have shorter journeys than others you can hardly expect those passengers who only hop on for three or four stops to ascend the stairs and be sitting on a chair when their destination point is coming up.


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    #12
    hognef
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭hognef


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    A regular occurrence but today took the biscuit. About 15 minutes ago I was waiting to get a 16 from Camden St heading southbound. Packed bus arrives, 3 get off, so only 3 are allowed on by the driver. I'm fortunate to be one of those 3. When I got on I said to him that I guarantee there are seats upstairs. He says very matter of factly that there are no seats. I squeeze through the gobsh1tes standing downstairs at the front of the bus, head upstairs to find 6 seats not being used. 6 people have to wait another 20 minutes for a bus because 1) the driver is too lazy to look in his camera to see seats available, 2) the driver is too lazy to tell people to move upstairs and 3) because people are idiots and prefer to clog up the standing room when there are seats available.

    Any transport system where one effectively needs permission off the driver to board is highly ineffective. With a metro or tram the laws of physics determine if you board, not poor interpretation by a driver.

    We really have a joke of a public transport system here.

    A proper system would guarantee entry, either on that bus or on a supplemental one that should be on standby for situations in which the first bus fills up.

    The need for the additional bus could of course be eliminated by ensuring a high enough frequency to guarantee the bus is never full.

    It can't be that hard to predict when a bus is likely to fill up.


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    #13
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    That's because some people have shorter journeys than others you can hardly expect those passengers who only hop on for three or four stops to ascend the stairs and be sitting on a chair when their destination point is coming up.

    You wouldn't believe how much that is actually done and then these are the ones that sit wait for bus to stop doors open others get off then they make a run down.

    You get the ones then that can't even walk never mind climb a step or stairs and yet they head straight for it.


    Drivers have enough stress to deal with and honestly its the attitude of the op that makes the job so hard to do as the amount of people that are so disrespectful to drivers is beyond a joke.


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    #14
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,590 ✭✭✭SteM


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    That's because some people have shorter journeys than others you can hardly expect those passengers who only hop on for three or four stops to ascend the stairs and be sitting on a chair when their destination point is coming up.

    Then why would they walk upstairs to look for a seat in the first place then?


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    #15
    ampleforth
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭ampleforth


    Like all human institutions, an imperfect system. I am sure the driver does his best, but people move around and block and just are there.


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    #16
    ahlookit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭ahlookit


    ampleforth wrote: »
    people move around and block and just are there.

    the feckers! ;)


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    #17
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    You wouldn't believe how much that is actually done and then these are the ones that sit wait for bus to stop doors open others get off then they make a run down.

    You get the ones then that can't even walk never mind climb a step or stairs and yet they head straight for it.


    Drivers have enough stress to deal with and honestly its the attitude of the op that makes the job so hard to do as the amount of people that are so disrespectful to drivers is beyond a joke.

    It comes with the territory, Dublin is a difficult place to work in. From the gossip you hear on forums to the behavior Dubliners show towards anyone who works in any profession be it politician, Gardaí or bus driver the amount of abuse is disgraceful.


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    #18
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    SteM wrote: »
    Then why would they walk upstairs to look for a seat in the first place then?

    To get out of the way, rest the feet.


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    #19
    triple nipple
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭triple nipple


    Chivito550 wrote:
    With a metro or tram the laws of physics determine if you board, not poor interpretation by a driver.


    That's exactly why i stopped taking the Luas


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    #20
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i can *never* find a seat upstairs on the luas.


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    #21
    TheFitz13
    Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭TheFitz13


    Buses are only supposed to have so many people standing, and bus drivers pack them in! 100% of the time on a busy bus


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    #22
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    KD345 wrote: »
    The bigger issue here is the 16 badly needs a higher frequency right across the day than it currently has.

    the bonus is the 16 is so desperately in need of capacity (and luggage racks don't help) that there's probably another 16 shortly behind that took off twenty minutes later...

    Unfortunately, soon enough the second 16 becomes swamped as well...


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    #23
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,736 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    devnull wrote: »
    What happens 9/10 is someone walks up the stairs, to the top of them, looks towards the back, decides there is no seats there, when actually there is about 4-5, walks back down.

    Every. Single. Time.

    on a busy bus.

    Because...

    - If you're not going far it means having to negotiate your way all the way back to the front door (DB drivers don't generally use middle doors here even when provided - yea yea I know the argument for that but it's still ridiculous) when you're getting off, which is fun if you have bags or kids with you and becomes sort of a race to get there without falling (because of the piss-poor ride quality and drivers racing - particularly over speed ramps) before the driver pulls off again

    - The "antisocial element" normally inhabit the lat few rows of the upper deck. Another thing no-one in DB/AGS seems to be interested in dealing with, so why should you?

    I remember it well. Because DB can't manage to run a consistent and reliable service (even at off-peak times - and the "traffic" excuse doesn't hold when buses leave the terminus late, go out of service, don't run at all because of staffing issues - all of which should be very rare exceptions, not multiple occurrences daily), passengers are squeezed in like sardines because really, who knows when the next one will arrive or if you'll be able to get on it.

    Now if you...

    - Had a 99.999% reliable and frequent service that people could depend on
    - Made full use of all doors with boarding/exiting at middle doors where fitted
    - Dealt with the "undesirables"

    ... there wouldn't be the same pressure on passenger OR driver as people would be confident that the net bus is just minutes away.


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    #24
    ronn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭ronn


    Most routes are on a summer bill, reduced service while the schools are off, but they can't cope with the loading,

    I heard DB contacted the NTA/TFI to tell them that they can't carry the passengers, but were told as long as the buses aren't running late they cant just put on extra buses because there not on the timetables,


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    #25
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,579 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The summer bills affect a small number of routes. Granted the school term extras that operate across the network are off, but the drop in service isn't that great.

    DB are having serious problems running the summer timetable as it is - plenty of buses cancelled due to operational issues (either staff shortage or maintenance, but given the frequency of these operational issues, I am inclined to think the former is the main problem) - so I find it rather difficult to believe that they asked the NTA if they could increase service levels.


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    #26
    hognef
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭hognef


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    - Made full use of all doors with boarding/exiting at middle doors where fitted

    There shouldn't even be a question of "where fitted" - there should always be middle (and rear, for that matter) doors fitted.

    Boarding through front door if you need to buy a single ticket off the driver, through any door (ticket scanners inside) if you already have a valid ticket. Exit preferably through middle and rear doors.

    Much more efficient than today, but will probably need more random ticket checking.

    This works perfectly well in other countries, and nobody ever needs to worry about going too far into the bus out of fear of not being able to get back out again.


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    #27
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    hognef wrote: »
    There shouldn't even be a question of "where fitted" - there should always be middle (and rear, for that matter) doors fitted.

    Boarding through front door if you need to buy a single ticket off the driver, through any door (ticket scanners inside) if you already have a valid ticket. Exit preferably through middle and rear doors.

    Much more efficient than today, but will probably need more random ticket checking.

    This works perfectly well in other countries, and nobody ever needs to worry about going too far into the bus out of fear of not being able to get back out again.

    Why there isn't a touch on touch off machine is beyond me. The driver shouldn't have to be taking fares in coins and deciding what to charge to your leap. The dwell times are ridiculous. And half the drivers don't have a clue how to work the leap card machines. I've been standing there for 20-30 seconds sometimes after saying 2:05 and he/she can't seem to figure out which button to press.

    I've taken buses in Amsterdam and Vienna and there is none of that absolute bullsh1t.


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    #28
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭wench


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    I've been standing there for 20-30 seconds sometimes after saying 2:05 and he/she can't seem to figure out which button to press.
    If the passenger before you paid cash, the driver has to wait for the screen to change to leap fares before they can select your 2.05 fare.
    The machines are barely up to the job, so that can be quite slow.


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    #29
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    lxflyer wrote: »

    DB are having serious problems running the summer timetable as it is - plenty of buses cancelled due to operational issues

    I haven't see Dublin bus admit that they're having problems
    Is there a source for that?


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    #30
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭plodder


    ronn wrote: »
    I heard DB contacted the NTA/TFI to tell them that they can't carry the passengers, but were told as long as the buses aren't running late they cant just put on extra buses because there not on the timetables,
    Is that really true? What justification could there be for that level of interference/red tape?

    Taking services away I could understand, but not adding them ...


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    #31
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    KD345 wrote: »
    The bigger issue here is the 16 badly needs a higher frequency right across the day than it currently has.
    it's probably all the tourists going out to ballinteer from the airport


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