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Irish martial arts body opposes recognition of MMA

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    #182
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Maguined wrote: »
    MMA requires a huge amount of self restraint, all of the submission maneuvers requires restraint to perform properly. If there was no restraint you would have arms broken every single session. In fact I believe there is even greater restraint practiced by the fact the training can be full contact but also for most training sessions it is not full ressitance. The fact that guys training it in have to shift between full ressitance sparring and 50% ressitance technique training is a mental shift the most TMA guys don't have to do.

    When I mention self restraint in regards to a lot of tma competitions I'm referring to the fact that you get points for a clean and fast extension and retraction of the arm/leg in executing a move. The force at which the manoeuvre is executed doesn't come in to play unless it's at lower levels where if it's too hard you will get points deducted or you will get disqualified.


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    #183
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Bambi wrote: »
    I doubt very much any MMA clubs wants to be part of IMAC, they should be under their own umbrella organistion as Karate, TKD and Judo are.

    So what's the point in this thread then? If neither party want it then surely everyone should be happy?


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    #184
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    smash wrote: »
    You're losing the run of yourself here. I've stated from the start that MMA is solely about fighting and now you're telling me that MMA is about fighting... So what's your point?

    I've also stated that a lot of TMA forms are not all about fighting and students study and master katas for both fighting and exhibition as exhibition is a huge part of the discipline. Now you're telling me that fighting doesn't look like a kata... I never said it did so again what's your point?

    My point was you said MMA fighters aspire to be the best brawlers. I asked you clarify what you meant and you said something about it being noisy.

    I said if you equate what MMA fighters do with fighting outside a pub, you're way off the mark.

    You said well that's what it looks like to me because its jack of all trades?

    I said well if that's what it looks like to you, that's what fighting looks like.

    Does that all sound accurate and up to date?


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    #185
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Maguined wrote: »
    Are you sure about this? I have seen numerous highlight reels of taekwondo knockout clips that seemed to be glorifying headkick knockouts. As long as you strike them in legitimate areas (most of the head and face are fine I believe) then a full force kick and resulting knockout is legal I thought?
    To be fair, you're right. I only ever took part in domestic amateur competitions and stopped not long after TKD was introduced to the Olympics.

    I wasn't aware that the scoring system had been extended for Olympic competitions to include assessment on the power of the contact. In the amateur competition I saw plenty of people pulled up and even a couple of DQs for excessive force.

    So clearly my info is way out of date.


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    #186
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Ush1 wrote: »
    My point was you said MMA fighters aspire to be the best brawlers. I asked you clarify what you meant and you said something about it being noisy.

    And the reason I used the phrase 'brawl' is because it's what a lot of the fights turn in to, or at least what I've seen and which has also been said by an MMA fan in this very thread.
    Ush1 wrote: »
    I said if you equate what MMA fighters do with fighting outside a pub, you're way off the mark.
    But it's not what I equate it to. It's what you came up with all by yourself.
    Ush1 wrote: »
    You said well that's what it looks like to me because its jack of all trades?

    I said well if that's what it looks like to you, that's what fighting looks like.
    Not all fighting looks like this. Brawling looks like this. So you're now also equating MMA to brawling...
    Ush1 wrote: »
    Does that all sound accurate and up to date?
    I don't know, it sounds like you're confused and rambling if I'm honest.


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    #187
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    smash wrote: »
    And the reason I used the phrase 'brawl' is because it's what a lot of the fights turn in to, or at least what I've seen and which has also been said by an MMA fan in this very thread.


    But it's not what I equate it to. It's what you came up with all by yourself.


    Not all fighting looks like this. Brawling looks like this. So you're now also equating MMA to brawling...


    I don't know, it sounds like you're confused and rambling if I'm honest.

    I am confused, so I'll ask this question again.

    What did you mean when you said the majority of MMA fighters aspire to be the best brawler?

    I mean there's a lot wrong with that statement but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt again and let you clarify what you meant.


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    #188
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Ush1 wrote: »
    I am confused, so I'll ask this question again.

    What did you mean when you said the majority of MMA fighters aspire to be the best brawler?
    That they aspire to be the best fighter, disregarding discipline.


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    #189
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    smash wrote: »
    That they aspire to be the best fighter, disregarding discipline.

    You're nearly there, the disclipline is fighting.


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    #190
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,725 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    smash wrote: »
    No.



    When I search it, it tells me there's been 4 deaths in sanctioned fights. Upon clicking in to it, it talks about sanctioned MMA fights but I suppose that doesn't fit in to your argument because it doesn't specifically state UFC as an organisation?

    You can't find one. You are the one that posted
    Are you incapable of searching "deaths in ufc"?


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    #191
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Ush1 wrote: »
    You're nearly there, the disclipline is fighting.

    A lot of discipline goes out the windows when you limit the restrictions and mix the arts because you're not truly fighting peers.
    lertsnim wrote: »
    You can't find one. You are the one that posted

    And that was in reply to HardenendMan who originally brought UFC in to it.


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    #192
    Gazzmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 816 ✭✭✭Gazzmonkey


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Typical nonsense from a minority of tosspots who are plainly seething that MMA has debunked most of the myths these people had constructed around their version of martial arts. We all know the type, fellas with overhanging beer guts waffling on about the deadliness of Shotokan Karate etc despite never having been in a proper fight in their lives and spending years doing glorified dancing in order to get a black bit of fabric around their waist.

    Hmm interesting.. so when the same guy learns a second dance and mixes it with the first dance he is now transformed into what you consider a real fighter?

    The wee Derry hoods in Uni years ago used to bang on about MMA but they also made claims about death touches and smashing granite too so it looks like they are all full of sh1t.. martial artists and MMA alike


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    #193
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    mansize wrote: »
    Maybe they have issues with striking a grounded opponent...

    Most brazilian jui jitsu practitioners could do more damage to a man from underneath him on the ground than a professional boxer could standing up.

    Just because someone is on the ground doesn't mean they aren't or can't fight, ground fighting is one of the most effective forms of attack imaginable.

    From underneath a person on the ground a good bjj practitioner could break an arm, rip a knee apart or literally strangle a man to death with their thighs.

    In MMA the action is instantly stopped when a man can't or won't try to defend himself intelligently, unlike boxing where people are boxed senseless and given a standing count and then sent straight back out to take more brain damage.


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    #194
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    smash wrote: »
    A lot of discipline goes out the windows when you limit the restrictions and mix the arts because you're not truly fighting peers.

    It's just not true.

    I'm not trying to be a dick but go and even observe some MMA classes and you'll see the amount of discipline it requires. It's even more cerebral in a lot of ways as there are so many ways to win(and lose).

    You might think someone could fluke a good punch, but it's much trickier to fluke a triangle choke.


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    #195
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    smash wrote: »
    So what's the point in this thread then? If neither party want it then surely everyone should be happy?

    I think the point of this that IMAC want MMA banned because its now so popular that their kickboxing schools will suffer


    No wait...because it's human cock fighting. Deffo human cock fighting.


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    #196
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #197
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Ush1 wrote: »
    It's just not true.

    I'm not trying to be a dick but go and even observe some MMA classes and you'll see the amount of discipline it requires. It's even more cerebral in a lot of ways as there are so many ways to win(and lose).

    You might think someone could fluke a good punch, but it's much trickier to fluke a triangle choke.

    Yes but this is from the observation point of those who have been trained in such manoeuvres. For those who haven't been trained in say ground fighting, when they're on the ground it becomes messy and their discipline goes out the window. I guess the same can be said for those who are trained in ground fighting and simply can not ground their opponent. When forced to fight outside of your discipline you will end up brawling. Some find this entertaining but I just don't.


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    #198
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    seamus wrote: »
    If you knocked your opponent out in a Tae Kwon-Do match there'd be an investigation to find out what went wrong. If you were found to have deliberately made a dangerous attack you could find yourself banned from practicing.

    What bull**** form of TKD has this rule? Olympic TKD is a full contact sport as are point karate, IKF kick boxing, as will be Olympic karate in 4 years time.

    People get kicked out in IKF kick boxing, point karate and Olympic TKD all the time, they are sports that allow full force axe kicks to the head for christ sake.


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    #199
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Bambi wrote: »
    I think the point of this that IMAC want MMA banned because its now so popular that their kickboxing schools will suffer

    No wait...because it's human cock fighting. Deffo human cock fighting.

    They don't really have a right to call for it to be banned, but they have the right to voice the opinion about it. But your opinion that their schools will suffer is just your opinion and might not be the case.


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    #200
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    smash wrote: »
    No it's not. It's only one aspect of martial arts. A huge part of martial arts focuses on mental, physical and spiritual development without the need or want to hurt someone.


    MMA is about fighting whereas fighting is only a portion of what is taught in TMA classes. I'm not mentioning technicalities etc.


    They also don't compete to knock each other out or cause maximum damage.


    I'm not using it to invoke that image, I'm using it to represent the nature of the fight because MMA is a jack of all trades style of fighting.


    Serious question, do you even practice a traditional martial art? Because you're spouting some amount of waffle here.


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    #201
    lawlolawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭lawlolawl


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    What bull**** form of TKD has this rule? Olympic TKD is a full contact sport are are point karate, IFK kick boxing, as will be Olympic karate in 4 years time.

    People get kicked out in IFK kick boxing, point karate and Olympic TKD all the time, they sports allow full force axe kicks to the head for christ sake.

    Ah yeah but they are using "discipline" so it's totally not the same as somebody getting knocked out in MMA


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    #202
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    Serious question, do you even practice a traditional martial art?
    I used to. My son does now.
    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    Because you're spouting some amount of waffle here.
    No I'm not. I'm voicing my opinion. If you have a differing one then use your words and offer it up instead of being aggressive.


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    #203
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    smash wrote: »
    I used to. My son does now.


    No I'm not. I'm voicing my opinion. If you have a differing one then use your words and offer it up instead of being aggressive.

    What martial art and to what grade?


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    #204
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #205
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    What martial art and to that grade?

    I fail to see the relevance of that question in this discussion or my views on topic at hand. You said I was spouting some amount of waffle, so correct me if I'm wrong.


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    #206
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    smash wrote: »
    I fail to see the relevance of that question in this discussion or my views on topic at hand. You said I was spouting some amount of waffle, so correct me if I'm wrong.

    Because I feel your posts are coming the back of doing some nonsense like Aikido for 6 months while you were in secondary school 26 years ago.


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    #207
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    A whole lotta this stuff going on in McDojo's all over Ireland



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    #208
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    Because I feel your posts are coming the back of doing some nonsense like Aikido for 6 months while you were in secondary school 26 years ago.

    Fcuk no, in my eyes Aikido is akin to some form of hippy ballet. I did judo, kempo, shotokan and a bit of kickboxing. It spanned over a 10-12yr period but it was all a long time ago now (but not quite 26 years ago). Like I said, my son does it now (shotokan) and he competes a couple of times a year even against other forms but not like in MMA. They don't mix the disciples all that much at junior level and he has no interest in competing in MMA in the future. It's also discouraged by a lot of the clubs.


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    #209
    lawlolawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭lawlolawl


    I think the early days of UFC also stuck in the craw of a lot of traditional martial arts people.

    Supposed "masters" of certain styles got clowned on by early prototype MMA guys or choked out by BJJ guys who were practicing a decidedly unsexy, down and dirty style that didn't have kata or anything.


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    #210
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    lawlolawl wrote: »
    I think the early days of UFC also stuck in the craw of a lot of traditional martial arts people.

    Supposed "masters" of certain styles got clowned on by early prototype MMA guys or choked out by BJJ guys who were practicing a decidedly unsexy, down and dirty style that didn't have kata or anything.

    You still have multiple cases per year of blackbelts in TMA's coming into BJJ schools and challenging the instructors to "prove" that BJJ works. I've yet to see a kung fu master of 5th dan karate black belt or stephen segals cousin jim last more than a minute. It's embarrassing at this stage.



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    #211
    Maguined
    Registered Users Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    smash wrote: »
    Yes but this is from the observation point of those who have been trained in such manoeuvres. For those who haven't been trained in say ground fighting, when they're on the ground it becomes messy and their discipline goes out the window. I guess the same can be said for those who are trained in ground fighting and simply can not ground their opponent. When forced to fight outside of your discipline you will end up brawling. Some find this entertaining but I just don't.

    All fights can become messy and brawls if someone is removed from their comfort zones. This happens in all martial arts but it is more apparent in mixed martial arts because there are far more varied aspects as you said but that is the beauty for those that enjoy the sport. Can this person survive the apparent advantage over the other.

    This does happen in every martial art however. If you get a very tall boxer with long reach picking apart his shorter opponent the shorter man frequently has to "brawl" by just bull rushing into his opponent to land savage powerful inside shots. To those that do not enjoy boxing this looks like an unskilled brawl but to those that appreciate boxing this becomes the sweet science of boxing and different styles within it. The exact same as MMA.

    To those that do not like Taekwondo it can look like a brawl of two lads just kicking each other as they do not appreciate the skill involved.


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