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Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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Comments

  • #1532
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Yes, which is why I consider the majority of this thread to be more of a threat to a solution than a help.
    I consider the majority of it to be conspiratorial hearsay. I think it is time i unfollowed it


  • #1533
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,295 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    jenny smith wrote: »
    I consider the majority of it to be conspiratorial hearsay. I think it is time i unfollowed it

    I think it would be good if we had a thread on the known facts.


  • #1534
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I think it would be good if we had a thread on the known facts.
    We do not have many facts. In the doc Collins made statements of 'fact' which were contradicted by him a few days later.


  • #1535
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,295 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    jenny smith wrote: »
    We do not have many facts. In the doc Collins made statements of 'fact' which were contradicted by him a few days later.

    Even for that you would have to know the context of the question which he was answering at the time and have it verbatim.


  • #1536
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    jenny smith wrote: »
    It does make a difference. he contradicted what he said in the doc. Changed his story. What would Collins say if a suspect he had for any crime changed his story

    Who then had the authority to cover up if not gardai or poiticians. a suspect could not cover up.If he means the community closed ranks and would not talk how is it the gardai fault

    @oranbhoy67 what do you mean his wishes should have been respected in the doc?

    I am saying that Sgt collins is very much still a Garda man even though retired , he has heard talk of the phone call from the politician but he believes that the real cover up here was done by the family of the perpetrator ( the same one that every one else in the doc believes is responsible)

    He wished that this would be made clear in the doc and it wasnt


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  • #1537
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    I am saying that Sgt collins is very much still a Garda man even though retired , he has heard talk of the phone call from the politician but he believes that the real cover up here was done by the family of the perpetrator ( the same one that every one else in the doc believes is responsible)

    He wished that this would be made clear in the doc and it wasnt
    Heard talk of phone call is just hearsay

    But how could family have the power to cover up unless you mean close ranks. And if they did it is not fair blaming the gardai for not arresting him. If family will no co operate how could they get evidence?

    real cover up here was done by the family of the perpetrator ( the same one that every one else in the doc believes is responsible)
    some here now saying the perpetrator was not the killer but helped cover up

    Are you at the march? Many there?


  • #1538
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    jenny smith wrote: »
    some here now saying the perpetrator was not the killer but helped cover up
    If not the killer then what did he perpetrate?
    That is confusing!


  • #1539
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    If not the killer then what did her perpetrate?
    That is confusing!
    didn't you say the perp hinted at here was not the killer but helped to cover it?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100517184&postcount=1505
    Confusing is a good word. Now that is a fact we know it s confusing


  • #1540
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    The confusing part is you not seeming to understand that the perpetrator is the one who did it.
    jenny smith wrote:
    
    some here now saying the perpetrator was not the killer but helped cover up
    IMO the person suspected (by most here) is likely not the perpetrator but assisted the perpetrator/killer.


  • #1541
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    The confusing part is you not seeming to understand that the perpetrator is the one who did it.

    IMO the person suspected (by most here) is likely not the perpetrator but assisted the perpetrator/killer.
    yes i do. you do not understand who, according to your previous post
    If not the killer then what did her perpetrate?
    who is her?
    I wrote "some here now saying the perpetrator was not the killer but helped cover up"
    by that i meant the person assumed by most on this thread to be the perp is not the killer but helped cover up. You seem to be saying that


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  • #1542
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    jenny smith wrote: »
    yes i do. you do not understand who, according to your previous post

    who is her?

    Typo her ....... HE


  • #1543
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    http://maryboylequestions.blogspot.ie/ more speculative nonsense. He does not know what happened, only what he read about what happened . He should stick to Sherlock Holmes

    Does anyone have the full report from the paddy clancy story at https://twitter.com/lorcafan
    I think it would be Irish Mirror


  • #1544
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    jenny smith wrote: »
    Collins says there was sexual abuse and e came to that conclusion over the years. So it is reasonable to think he has some evidence pointing to it. So does Mary's sister and Margo and it featured in Gemma's doc. It is strange she left in ref to sexual abuse if she, or the people she interviews on screen have no evidence of sexual abuse.

    Most comments here are presumptive and speculative. No onehere has any knowledge to be anything more. We know nothing of the garda investigation or what the gardai may be doing. They do not say unless it suits their strategy

    Yet people complain the person the 'know' killed her was not arrested

    some of us do have more knowledge than what has been presented in the doc, do you think we are accusing this person for the fun of it ?

    as ive said before countless times the doc could only reveal so much .. it was more a case of letting the viewers join the dots for the rest

    if we come forward publicly with all the information we know then case is over - mistrial


  • #1545
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    jenny smith wrote: »
    http://maryboylequestions.blogspot.ie/ more speculative nonsense. He does not know what happened, only what he read about what happened . He should stick to Sherlock Holmes

    Does anyone have the full report from the paddy clancy story at https://twitter.com/lorcafan
    I think it would be Irish Mirror

    due to the total lack of anything credible released by the gardai then people only can but speculate


  • #1546
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    The confusing part is you not seeming to understand that the perpetrator is the one who did it.

    IMO the person suspected (by most here) is likely not the perpetrator but assisted the perpetrator/killer.

    what makes you think that ?


  • #1547
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    what makes you think that ?

    My interpretation of the same information everyone else has.


  • #1548
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    some of us do have more knowledge than what has been presented in the doc, do you think we are accusing this person for the fun of it ?

    as ive said before countless times the doc could only reveal so much .. it was more a case of letting the viewers join the dots for the rest

    if we come forward publicly with all the information we know then case is over - mistrial
    and what can the viewers do? Does the more knowledge include enough evidence for an arrest?


  • #1549
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    My interpretation of the same information everyone else has.

    I just don't see where you come to that conclusion , I can certainly see that he was helped covering up


  • #1550
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    jenny smith wrote: »
    and what can the viewers do? Does the more knowledge include enough evidence for an arrest?

    yes very much so..

    The viewers can try and trust on this and help us with our campaign

    they can ask themselves why would Marys twin come out and say this even after legal threats from her Mother?.. why would Margo who I'm sure could be living a nice retirement somewhere warm or working on a cruise ship or the likes come out and say this? .. why would the 2 ex-cops come out in public and say this knowing that they would be criticised not for doing more at the time & also criticised no doubt by their peers?

    They aren't making money from this so can I ask any pessimists about our view on what happened..- what motive do they think these 4 people ( who were all there from day one. or very close to it in Margos case) would have to be out like this in the open & lying ???

    we are not asking for a lynching

    we are asking that he be brought in for a real interrogation preferably by outside gardai .

    & also for an Inquest on Marys Death.

    Is any of that too much to ask ?


  • #1551
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    In fact to go further than that why would Marys mother send legal threats to both her daughter and Margo can any pessimist possibly explain that ??

    Why would you threaten legal action against your daughter who is looking for your other daughter?

    Also if you were the person who was in question here of being guilty would you not go to the gardai and try and clear your name or even go public on the radio etc?

    Him & his family`s Silence says everything , And with the mother Ann her lies said everything because she outright lied when she said that our march had nothing to do with Mary`s family, her own daughter was at the forefront of that march along with her grandkids.. and me and my brother.

    What an awful thing to say about your daughter .. what would make you so twisted to come out with a statement like that basically disowning a Daughter after you have already lost one in such circumstances.


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  • #1552
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    yes very much so..

    The viewers can try and trust on this and help us with our campaign

    they can ask themselves why would Marys twin come out and say this even after legal threats from her Mother?.. why would Margo who I'm sure could be living a nice retirement somewhere warm or working on a cruise ship or the likes come out and say this? .. why would the 2 ex-cops come out in public and say this knowing that they would be criticised not for doing more at the time & also criticised no doubt by their peers?

    They aren't making money from this so can I ask any pessimists about our view on what happened..- what motive do they think these 4 people ( who were all there from day one. or very close to it in Margos case) would have to be out like this in the open & lying ???

    we are not asking for a lynching

    we are asking that he be brought in for a real interrogation preferably by outside gardai .

    & also for an Inquest on Marys Death.

    Is any of that too much to ask ?
    you say you have all this evidence most here do not know about. But you speak as if all here do know about it
    they can ask themselves why would Marys twin come out and say this even after legal threats from her Mother?.. why would Margo who I'm sure could be living a nice retirement somewhere warm or working on a cruise ship or the likes come out and say this? .. why would the 2 ex-cops come out in public and say this knowing that they would be criticised not for doing more at the time & also criticised no doubt by their peers?

    They aren't making money from this so can I ask any pessimists about our view on what happened..- what motive do they think these 4 people ( who were all there from day one. or very close to it in Margos case) would have to be out like this in the open & lying ???
    none of that is evidence. i am finished with this thread


  • #1553
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    jenny smith wrote: »
    you say you have all this evidence most here do not know about. But you speak as if all here do know about it
    none of that is evidence. i am finished with this thread

    How do I ??

    yeah probably not a bad idea I think you confuse yourself half the time .


  • #1554
    Anjali Kuomo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 ✭Anjali Kuomo


    I'm sorry Jenny Smith has gone. I found her points both fair and perceptive. Oranbhoy67, I think you need to listen better to what people are saying...without becoming so defensive. My own opinion on all of this can be very simply put : NO amount of hearsay makes one shred of evidence. If all you know is what someone TOLD someone else then you are going nowhere with this. In any respectable jurisdiction in the world 'Hearsay' is not even admissible in court. Also, to describe Mary's mother as 'twisted' is way out of line. I too am finished here.


  • #1555
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Anjali Kuomo wrote: »
    I'm sorry Jenny Smith has gone. I found her points both fair and perceptive. Oranbhoy67, I think you need to listen better to what people are saying...without becoming so defensive. My own opinion on all of this can be very simply put : NO amount of hearsay makes one shred of evidence. If all you know is what someone TOLD someone else then you are going nowhere with this. In any respectable jurisdiction in the world 'Hearsay' is not even admissible in court. Also, to describe Mary's mother as 'twisted' is way out of line. I too am finished here.

    Ive known her all my life she is twisted to come out with such a statement basically disowning her Daughter and Grandchildren , ok bye bye


  • #1556
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    seems the question I put to some of the pessimists was too much for them yet I'm the one accused of being the defensive one , well yeah she was my cousin so of course I'm going to be defensive of what I believe in this matter .. I try tell it like I see it though RE my views on gemma O doherty etc

    I wish I could say everything we know but doing so could affect due process , I've probably already said too much , why people Have to get so angry I don't know


  • #1557
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Ive known her all my life she is twisted to come out with such a statement basically disowning her Daughter and Grandchildren , ok bye bye



    I'll paint an imaginary scenario. A fictional story.

    A child was reported as having gone missing from somewhere, Canada I think......

    But that never happened. Something else happened. No one ever said what.

    But maybe it was suggested to someone in the aftermath that a child followed them. They saw her following this person across the land, after all. Maybe that person for whatever reason just said yes, you're right she did, sure she must have.
    This person is obliging, wants to help and may be below average IQ.

    They may not have known anything about what happened to her.

    Imagine that person after working out that they had been used contacted a police officer in a very emotional state.

    Imagine the police officer recognises the predicament but appreciates that the person is innocent and may be of some use to him.

    If he puts him away, he and his information goes and so does any trust.
    The police officers make a call to protect the person who came forward as best they can.
    His life is set on a different path now anyway.

    The police officers have nothing to go on.

    Imagine everyone lying to them.

    Yes that is what happened they say.

    They say they cannot understand it.

    Cannot believe it.

    There is loyalty there to the person who they used as the decoy though.

    They don't want a lynch mob after him because they know he didn't do it.

    Complete fiction.


  • #1558
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,295 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Going Forward wrote: »
    I'll paint an imaginary scenario. A fictional story.

    A child was reported as having gone missing from somewhere, Canada I think......

    But that never happened. Something else happened. No one ever said what.

    But maybe it was suggested to someone in the aftermath that a child followed them. They saw her following this person across the land, after all. Maybe that person for whatever reason just said yes, you're right she did, sure she must have.
    This person is obliging, wants to help and may be below average IQ.

    They may not have known anything about what happened to her.

    Imagine that person after working out that they had been used contacted a police officer in a very emotional state.

    Imagine the police officer recognises the predicament but appreciates that the person is innocent and may be of some use to him.

    If he puts him away, he and his information goes and so does any trust.
    The police officers make a call to protect the person who came forward as best they can.
    His life is set on a different path now anyway.

    The police officers have nothing to go on.

    Imagine everyone lying to them.

    Yes that is what happened they say.

    They say they cannot understand it.

    Cannot believe it.

    There is loyalty there to the person who they used as the decoy though.

    They don't want a lynch mob after him because they know he didn't do it.

    Complete fiction.

    Jesus. I was about to suggest something similar. Great minds....


  • #1559
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Going Forward wrote: »
    I'll paint an imaginary scenario. A fictional story.

    A child was reported as having gone missing from somewhere, Canada I think......

    But that never happened. Something else happened. No one ever said what.

    But maybe it was suggested to someone in the aftermath that a child followed them. They saw her following this person across the land, after all. Maybe that person for whatever reason just said yes, you're right she did, sure she must have.
    This person is obliging, wants to help and may be below average IQ.

    They may not have known anything about what happened to her.

    Imagine that person after working out that they had been used contacted a police officer in a very emotional state.

    Imagine the police officer recognises the predicament but appreciates that the person is innocent and may be of some use to him.

    If he puts him away, he and his information goes and so does any trust.
    The police officers make a call to protect the person who came forward as best they can.
    His life is set on a different path now anyway.

    The police officers have nothing to go on.

    Imagine everyone lying to them.

    Yes that is what happened they say.

    They say they cannot understand it.

    Cannot believe it.

    There is loyalty there to the person who they used as the decoy though.

    They don't want a lynch mob after him because they know he didn't do it.

    Complete fiction.

    I could be reading that totally wrong but in our case the person who went to the Gardai and was emotional wasn't our suspect, but was very close to him, and very close to Mary and was sent there by and also as a representative of people very close to the suspect .


    again I might have picked up your fictional story wrong but thats what happened in our case


  • #1560
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    also this guys IQ wouldn't be as low IMO that some would think, i thought him a "bit" slow on the uptake but that could have been the strong accent .. and he was the only adult out in the fields that day

    anyway its good to have theories and discussions but I think I've said all i can say on this ill take a wee look in on it now & again and comment now and again but I've gave all that I can tell without prejudicing a trial and I don't think I can write any more.. I am too close to it to look at it objectively but ill pop in to see if its still going every once in a while and clear up anything that I can for anyone if they ask


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  • #1561
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Ive known her all my life she is twisted to come out with such a statement basically disowning her Daughter and Grandchildren , ok bye bye

    As you know I don't beat about the bush. The reason why you are rapidly loosing support on here, is that most neutral observers here are being expected by you to take sides in a very sad family feud, join in with demonisation of the mother, and become rabid political shinners all at the same time, and if they don't tick all your boxes and they smell any rats, or ask too many questions, they are put on your ignore list. Most of the locals stayed away from the recent political protest Marches for those very reasons. You're not listening. Ordinary people are sick of politics and everything being politicised, including Mary's disappearance. Meanwhile perfectly good recent leads about where the original tracker dog indicated where to excavate for evidence are being ignored because they are not politically exciting enough. Well balls to that.


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