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Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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  • #1502
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Going Forward wrote: »
    http://www.highlandradio.com/2016/07/13/lead-investigator-in-mary-boyle-case-says-there-was-neither-apolitical-nor-garda-cover-up/
    Collins contradicting himself .


  • #1503
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    jenny smith wrote: »
    Collins contradicting himself .

    Yeah, but the outcome was the same, the case was knobbled one way or another according to him.

    And it wasn't a cover up by the gardai or politicians he said.

    A cover up though, deliberately fabricated by a person or persons which had an impact on how the case was investigated.

    He wasn't giving much away.......

    I wonder what his colleague made of that article though.


  • #1504
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Yeah, but the outcome was the same, the case was knobbled one way or another according to him.

    And it wasn't a cover up by the gardai or politicians he said.

    A cover up though, deliberately fabricated by a person or persons which had an impact on how the case was investigated.

    He wasn't giving much away.......

    I wonder what his colleague made of that article though.

    Exactly , & he has said this from day 1 and his wishes should have been respected in the documentary .

    He thinks there was a cover-up , but not by the gardai and not by politician(s). and he has every right to that point of view, and it would still match up with who we believe is the main suspect.

    So who does that leave to carry out the cover-up??

    IMO there was Gardai "Mistakes" at the very least.. and I do believe a politician interfered ..or at least tried to .. the question is why aren't the people who allegedly are the main obstruction to justice being brought in to be interviewed again and their statements cross-examined with those from 1977??

    Why hasn't these two guards main & only suspect, my cousin Marys twin main & only suspect, Margos main & only suspect , why hasn't he been brought in and thoroughly questioned ??

    These 2 gardai have absolutely nothing to gain from coming out in this documentary. they are obviously very experienced policemen. why wont their ex-colleagues take them seriously ???


  • #1505
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    http://www.highlandradio.com/2016/07...arda-cover-up/
    I am inclined to Sgt Collins' view. I had earlier posted that I thought the political interference idea was a bit of a 'red herring'.
    There are not many principals in this story, but I am of the view that the person most suspected in this thread was not the perpetrator, but more one who helped in the cover-up due to family ties.


  • #1506
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Exactly , & he has said this from day 1 and his wishes should have been respected in the documentary .

    He thinks there was a cover-up , but not by the gardai and not by politician(s). and he has every right to that point of view, and it would still match up with who we believe is the main suspect.

    So who does that leave to carry out the cover-up??

    IMO there was Gardai "Mistakes" at the very least.. and I do believe a politician interfered ..or at least tried to .. the question is why aren't the people who allegedly are the main obstruction to justice being brought in to be interviewed again and their statements cross-examined with those from 1977??

    Why hasn't these two guards main & only suspect, my cousin Marys twin main & only suspect, Margos main & only suspect , why hasn't he been brought in and thoroughly questioned ??

    These 2 gardai have absolutely nothing to gain from coming out in this documentary. they are obviously very experienced policemen. why wont their ex-colleagues take them seriously ???

    Again, has this possibility of an alleged cover up (without all the circus of a political cover up) which didn't happen by chance, and his theory of who and why they fabricated the cover up been officially reported to gardai?

    I can't search on the phone.

    Has he officially gone to the gardai to report his suspicions or gone to Gemma O Doherty?

    Has he made a detailed statement to a member of the gardai about this?


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  • #1507
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    I am inclined to Sgt Collins' view.

    There are not many principals in this story, but I am of the view that the person most suspected in this thread was not the perpetrator, but more one who helped in the cover-up due to family ties.

    Yes.

    I'm of the same opinion now.


  • #1508
    Anjali Kuomo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 ✭Anjali Kuomo


    A few points on recent posts. 1. Apologies for lack of 'links' in my own posts. I'm trying to work out how to that works! In the meantime, if anything I've said is incorrect I am happy to be corrected. 2. About the 'contradiction' in Garda Collins' statements....could it be due to 'editing' of his statements. I have often heard complaints from people who gave interviews that their story was so edited that they scarcely recognised what was eventually published. I have only limited experience in this area but I think it might be significant here. 3. About Bryan Mc Mahon...I never suggested that he should be 'charged' with anything in connection with Mary's disappearance. The DPP found that there was not enough evidence for that. My point was that the gardai had very good reason to 'arrest him for questioning'. They were not working on hearsay but on established facts. It was and is outrageous to suggest that this was 'an attempt to frame an innocent man'.


  • #1509
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Exactly , & he has said this from day 1 and his wishes should have been respected in the documentary .

    He thinks there was a cover-up , but not by the gardai and not by politician(s). and he has every right to that point of view, and it would still match up with who we believe is the main suspect.

    So who does that leave to carry out the cover-up??

    IMO there was Gardai "Mistakes" at the very least.. and I do believe a politician interfered ..or at least tried to .. the question is why aren't the people who allegedly are the main obstruction to justice being brought in to be interviewed again and their statements cross-examined with those from 1977??

    Why hasn't these two guards main & only suspect, my cousin Marys twin main & only suspect, Margos main & only suspect , why hasn't he been brought in and thoroughly questioned ??

    These 2 gardai have absolutely nothing to gain from coming out in this documentary. they are obviously very experienced policemen. why wont their ex-colleagues take them seriously ???

    Have the two ex gardai now actually made official statements to the gardai on this?

    No point telling Gemma in a video and hoping someone will knock on their door to take a statement.

    The system if it works at all, doesn't work like that.


  • #1510
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    My take was that he meant an organised search team set up already for such circumstances, there certainly was hundreds searching for Mary right away, just doesn't seem to be very organised

    Yes, what he seems to be calling for is properly trained volunteer search groups set up in each county that can be called in for incidents like this.


  • #1511
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Yeah, but the outcome was the same, the case was knobbled one way or another according to him.

    And it wasn't a cover up by the gardai or politicians he said.

    A cover up though, deliberately fabricated by a person or persons which had an impact on how the case was investigated.

    He wasn't giving much away.......

    I wonder what his colleague made of that article though.
    It does make a difference. he contradicted what he said in the doc. Changed his story. What would Collins say if a suspect he had for any crime changed his story

    Who then had the authority to cover up if not gardai or poiticians. a suspect could not cover up.If he means the community closed ranks and would not talk how is it the gardai fault

    @oranbhoy67 what do you mean his wishes should have been respected in the doc?


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  • #1512
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    IMO there was Gardai "Mistakes" at the very least.. and I do believe a politician interfered ..or at least tried to .. the question is why aren't the people who allegedly are the main obstruction to justice being brought in to be interviewed again and their statements cross-examined with those from 1977??
    is there evidence to bring them in?


  • #1513
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Yep.

    It's hard to imagine how seriously it was taken.

    Receive a call at station, child missing.

    Is it all hands on deck, panic sations, or a bit of I'll send someone down to you.

    Even today.

    How the call is handled, is the child missing in Dublin or a rural place, at risk, not at risk, there are many factors which could slow down or speed up a proper response.

    Then as mentioned the probably less than state of the art training and equipment, makes a hard job even harder.

    The one thing that I would expect to be consistent is attending members on arrival at the scene getting a fairly quick idea of what actually happened.

    The cover up that Collins later alluded to may have had something to do with steering them away from that initial conclusion.

    It's not known what he meant when he said it wasn't a garda or political cover up.

    I don't think the lessons of the Mary Bolye case have been learned today either. God forbid, but If a child went missing anywhere in Ireland today, under the same circumstances, tragically suspect exactly the same mistakes would be repeated over again. But because it happened in Donegal there's an arrogant and prejudice air of "ah those muck savages in Donegal, what would you expect up there". The mistakes made in the Mary Bolye case, and how to prevent them, should form a core part of training for all the emergency services in the state. I would be awful to see another family put through this when a child goes missing, but as things stand at the moment, that's probably what would happen. The whole thing is very sad.


  • #1514
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »
    Yes, what he seems to be calling for is properly trained volunteer search groups set up in each county that can be called in for incidents like this.
    that was 1977. ireland was not very well prepared for that the just like it was not prepared for people like the general when he started robbing banks


  • #1515
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »
    I don't think the lessons of the Mary Bolye case have been learned today either. God forbid, but If a child went missing anywhere in Ireland today, under the same circumstances, tragically suspect exactly the same mistakes would be repeated over again. But because it happened in Donegal there's an arrogant and prejudice air of "ah those muck savages in Donegal, what would you expect up there". The mistakes made in the Mary Bolye case, and how to prevent them, should form a core part of training for all the emergency services in the state. I would be awful to see another family put through this when a child goes missing, but as things stand at the moment, that's probably what would happen. The whole thing is very sad.
    much different now with technology

    http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=9318&Lang=1

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/app-helped-gardai-trace-alleged-baby-snatcher-dad-266526.html


  • #1516
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    jenny smith wrote: »
    much different now with technology

    http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=9318&Lang=1

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/app-helped-gardai-trace-alleged-baby-snatcher-dad-266526.html

    There might be more technology, but sadly, I still don't believe that many of the very same mistakes in procedure, planning, management and politics would not be made today. Organistion, planning, professionalism and anti-corruption measures are not the Irish authorties strong points today either. The dissmisive attitude that there are no lessons to learn here, or preventative measures to but put in place, for this and all the other recent scandals In Ireland seems to be prevalent.


  • #1517
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »
    There might be more technology, but sadly, I still don't believe many of the very same mistakes in procedure, planning, management and politics would not be made today. Organistion, planning, professionalism and anti-corruption measures are not the Irish authorties strong points today either. The dissmisive attitude that there are no lessons to learn here, or preventative measures to but put in place, for this and all the other recent scandals In Ireland seems to be prevalent.
    Anyone in any profession can make a genuine mistake. Linking a genuine mistake to corruption is not fair


  • #1518
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    http://www.highlandradio.com/2016/07...arda-cover-up/
    I am inclined to Sgt Collins' view. I had earlier posted that I thought the political interference idea was a bit of a 'red herring'.
    There are not many principals in this story, but I am of the view that the person most suspected in this thread was not the perpetrator, but more one who helped in the cover-up due to family ties.
    There is a new major suspect? can you tell more without compromising the case?That linki s dead. Is that an interview recording or just a written news article?


  • #1519
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Anjali Kuomo wrote: »
    A few points on recent posts. 1. Apologies for lack of 'links' in my own posts. I'm trying to work out how to that works! In the meantime, if anything I've said is incorrect I am happy to be corrected. 2. About the 'contradiction' in Garda Collins' statements....could it be due to 'editing' of his statements. I have often heard complaints from people who gave interviews that their story was so edited that they scarcely recognised what was eventually published. I have only limited experience in this area but I think it might be significant here. 3. About Bryan Mc Mahon...I never suggested that he should be 'charged' with anything in connection with Mary's disappearance. The DPP found that there was not enough evidence for that. My point was that the gardai had very good reason to 'arrest him for questioning'. They were not working on hearsay but on established facts. It was and is outrageous to suggest that this was 'an attempt to frame an innocent man'.
    you have to have certain amount of posts before you can put links in your posts


  • #1520
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    jenny smith wrote: »
    Anyone in any profession can make a genuine mistake. Linking a genuine mistake to corruption is not fair

    Mistakes should not be repeated over and over.
    The general consensus here seems there was, and still is, pleanty of corruption in the Mary Bolye case, as well as the mistakes past and present still being made. The deadly cocktail of corruption and incompetence in Ireland hasn't gone away you know. It's the root cause of this mess and every other mess in Ireland.


  • #1521
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    jenny smith wrote: »
    There is a new major suspect? can you tell more without compromising the case?That linki s dead. Is that an interview recording or just a written news article?

    First off I was not aware there was any official 'major suspect' only one person suspected by posters on this thread.
    Other than that I only expressed my own individual opinion in my last two posts. I will leave my remarks at that.

    The link is a written article. Here is my new attempt at a link ;)
    http://www.highlandradio.com/2016/07/13/lead-investigator-in-mary-boyle-case-says-there-was-neither-apolitical-nor-garda-cover-up/


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  • #1522
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    First off I was not aware there was any official 'major suspect' only one person suspected by posters on this thread.
    Other than that I only expressed my own individual opinion in my last two posts. I will leave my remarks at that.

    The link is a written article. Here is my new attempt at a link ;)
    http://www.highlandradio.com/2016/07/13/lead-investigator-in-mary-boyle-case-says-there-was-neither-apolitical-nor-garda-cover-up/
    I meant the person poster here seem to claim
    OK i have seen that article it is Collins contradicting what he said in doc


  • #1523
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »
    Mistakes should not be repeated over and over.
    The general consensus here seems there was, and still is, pleanty of corruption in the Mary Bolye case, as well as the mistakes past and present still being made. The deadly cocktail of corruption and incompetence in Ireland hasn't gone away you know. It's the root cause of this mess and every other mess in Ireland.
    Is it though?. Collins is saying it was not political or garda corruption. A few rural people are the root cause of this mess and every other mess in Ireland then?

    I ask again is there enough evidence to arrest the guy pointed at here. No one seems to point to any evidence only what they 'know'

    Gemma says "The politician whom ex senior gardai claim ordered a cover-up in the #MaryBoyle case has been attempting to silence people about the case" Where is her evidence of that? And it contradicts Collins who says there was no political interference. So one of Gemma's star witnesses i making her claims credible has gone back on his comments. I cannot understand people saying that does not matter


  • #1524
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    jenny smith wrote: »
    There is a new major suspect?

    No but people here, myself included have been very fast to come to too many conclusions.

    I think he is correct in his idea about that person's involvement.


  • #1525
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Going Forward wrote: »
    No but people here, myself included have been very fast to come to too many conclusions.

    I think he is correct in his idea about that person's involvement.
    That he is not the killer? So who is the killer then and who sexually assaulted her?


  • #1526
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    jenny smith wrote: »
    Is it though?. Collins is saying it was not political or garda corruption. A few rural people are the root cause of this mess and every other mess in Ireland then?

    I ask again is there enough evidence to arrest the guy pointed at here. No one seems to point to any evidence only what they 'know'

    Gemma says "The politician whom ex senior gardai claim ordered a cover-up in the #MaryBoyle case has been attempting to silence people about the case" Where is her evidence of that? And it contradicts Collins who says there was no political interference. So one of Gemma's star witnesses i making her claims credible has gone back on his comments. I cannot understand people saying that does not matter

    There were and are plenty of other people involved in the case other than "rural" people as you like to term them. It's irelevant where people are from, this could just easily have happened anywhere else in Ireland. So if there is no corruption or incompetence in this case, and everything was and is just genuine mistakes, why not challenge all the other claims to the contrary being made by everyone on this thread ?


  • #1527
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    jenny smith wrote: »
    That he is not the killer? So who is the killer then and who sexually assaulted her?

    Those are not questions that anyone should attempt to answer in this thread (or elsewhere). It is a matter for the authorities only.
    The best that can be done is to try to influence the authorities to spend more effort to get evidence or information sufficient for an arrest.
    Furthermore I would point out that there is no evidence at all that there was any sexual abuse, so you question is presumptive.
    Naming, or pointing a finger at, anyone in particular would be counter productive.
    You can be well assured that those who investigated this have already considered all potential suspects and looked for evidence.
    I believe it will be necessary for someone to break their silence in order to solve this mystery.
    I also think that is unlikely.


  • #1528
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »
    There were and are plenty of other people involved in the case other than "rural" people as you like to term them. It's irelevant where people are from, this could just easily have happened anywhere else in Ireland. So if there is no corruption or incompetence in this case, and everything was and is just genuine mistakes, why not challenge all the other claims to the contrary being made by everyone on this thread ?
    i did not say there was no corruption or incompetence.In fact i said anyone could make a mistake.

    Collins says no political or garda corruption so my ref to rural people was that if there are no corrupt gardai or politician it must be local people who are rural people . It is a very rural area
    There were and are plenty of other people involved in the case
    There was only a small number around when she vanished so if Collins is correct that no garda or politicians were involved there cannot be many more


  • #1529
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Those are not questions that anyone should attempt to answer in this thread (or elsewhere). It is a matter for the authorities only.
    The best that can be done is to try to influence the authorities to spend more effort to get evidence or information sufficient for an arrest.
    Furthermore I would point out that there is no evidence at all that there was any sexual abuse, so you question is presumptive.
    Naming, or pointing a finger at, anyone in particular would be counter productive.
    You can be well assured that those who investigated this have already considered all potential suspects and looked for evidence.
    I believe it will be necessary for someone to break their silence in order to solve this mystery.
    I also think that is unlikely.
    Collins says there was sexual abuse and e came to that conclusion over the years. So it is reasonable to think he has some evidence pointing to it. So does Mary's sister and Margo and it featured in Gemma's doc. It is strange she left in ref to sexual abuse if she, or the people she interviews on screen have no evidence of sexual abuse.

    Most comments here are presumptive and speculative. No onehere has any knowledge to be anything more. We know nothing of the garda investigation or what the gardai may be doing. They do not say unless it suits their strategy

    Yet people complain the person the 'know' killed her was not arrested


  • #1530
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    jenny smith wrote: »
    Collins says there was sexual abuse and e came to that conclusion over the years. So it is reasonable to think he has some evidence pointing to it. So does Mary's sister and Margo and it featured in Gemma's doc. It is strange she left in ref to sexual abuse if she, or the people she interviews on screen have no evidence of sexual abuse.

    Most comments here are presumptive and speculative. No onehere has any knowledge to be anything more. We know nothing of the garda investigation or what the gardai may be doing. They do not say unless it suits their strategy

    Yet people complain the person the 'know' killed her was not arrested

    Yes, which is why I consider the majority of this thread to be more of a threat to a solution than a help.


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  • #1531
    Burtman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭Burtman


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Yes, which is why I consider the majority of this thread to be more of a threat to a solution than a help.

    You do realise this is a thread for conspiracy theorys?


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