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Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

1…6970727475…209

Comments

  • #2132
    paddydriver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭paddydriver


    Antwerp wrote: »
    hi Paddy,
    Think it's just us doing DLR10 however Singer & NOP98 have already advised on our plan for this week, if You follow Post 1596 page 109 I think (sorry on mobile so hard to check) it will provide our homework.

    Basically our runs are a day earlier this week so for myself on Boards plan, I ran 4m last night, doing 6m shortly and then 4m (need to check later) tomorrow off Thurs doing easy 5m on Friday etc but NO LSR to be completed this week in lieu of the race on Sunday on the proviso that it is completed next wk (jump back into normal Boards Plan on Tues 2nd Aug).

    I know you will be broken hearted :) as you love the LSR but I have been advised by the professionals not to engage in it this week given DLR (as I originally though I would complete it mid-week).

    By all means Paddy, you may have a lot more running experience than I so I will leave it to one of the pros to guide you.

    P.s. Need to find some hills later as DlR full of them for the first half!!!

    Thanks Antwerp.. nope, by no means am I experienced..:eek: Might have a friend/work colleague down working with me from Derry on Thursday and he wants to get an LSR in too.. will be nice to have someone to converse with except myself! He's running DCM and has run previous ones too so eager to tap his experience. I'll see how week goes.. If all changes I will just run the DLR easy; so long as I get a Teddy's 99 at the end I am happy.

    Yep.. out for 6M myself now! An early DLR 10k.


  • #2133
    scotindublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭scotindublin


    7.4m post holiday run done this evening after work with one for the lads who has also signed up for the DCM.

    Couple of easy 4 miles before the weekend then the 15m lsr Saturday or Sunday morning;planning on following the FD 10 mile route in the park and then adding on an additional 5 miles.

    Again some great advice being given out on the thread.....it really is a learning experience as much as a running one. Looking back at my couple of 1/2 marathons last year I approached them totally wrong and was pretty lucky not to injure myself in training for them.

    Great to hear that everyone is doing so well.


  • #2134
    kabuxa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭kabuxa


    I have a question... (another thinking session 😀😀😀) I was reading the estimated time of your marathons... and... I am on the ASICS plan... when I entered my 10k time gave me 4.30 finish time which I thought there is no way... Now I decided to check on other calculators and if i enter 10k tells me 4.25 ... if I enter the HM time says 4.40. How can it be such a gap? Is it normal? Or I (or anyone) should not have that much difference? Btw... I am happy to finish at anytime but of course I have to follow some guidance. Thanks!


  • #2135
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    kabuxa wrote: »
    I have a question... (another thinking session 😀😀😀) I was reading the estimated time of your marathons... and... I am on the ASICS plan... when I entered my 10k time gave me 4.30 finish time which I thought there is no way... Now I decided to check on other calculators and if i enter 10k tells me 4.25 ... if I enter the HM time says 4.40. How can it be such a gap? Is it normal? Or I (or anyone) should not have that much difference? Btw... I am happy to finish at anytime but of course I have to follow some guidance. Thanks!

    As far as I understand it, if you're a relative beginner (ie. haven't been running consistently for a number of years) those calculators get less accurate for longer distances because you don't have a big endurance base from years of training. So basically, it's less likely that us newer runners would achieve the marathon time it predicts based on our 10k times.

    I'm guessing the one it predicts from your HM time is going to be more accurate. I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm horribly wrong.


  • #2136
    Antwerp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭Antwerp


    [QUOTE=paddydriver;100480259.. If all changes I will just run the DLR easy; so long as I get a Teddy's 99 at the end I am happy.

    Yep.. out for 6M myself now! An early DLR 10k.[/QUOTE]


    Well Paddy, hope you enjoyed your 6m! Mine started off bad as inside of my right ankle was sore however after an easy mile it eased that ,.....or I was distracted by deciding to take off my rain jacket and get wet or stay dry but roast with the heat...before I knew it I had 3m racked up and managed to do 6.67m in the end...incidentally I came home wet but must say it was enjoyable running in milder if wet conditions!! Think running partially on grass may have helped things, hope so as don't wish to mess up DLR by the way might see you at Teddys....if you are still there ....when the road sweeper arrives when everyone else has are gone home and the moon has come out.....

    From the snail :)


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  • #2137
    Antwerp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭Antwerp


    Welcome back scotindublin, good luck with 1-5 mile (had to insert a hyphen as fifteen sounds enormous mileage) ��

    good plan to practice FD10 too


  • #2138
    Murph_D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,916 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Bluesquare wrote: »
    Hi Murph

    How far out does a HM need to be so that it offers a good prediction ? Would the R&R be relevant for Berlin or would the ten miler race series work better ?

    Thanks

    I think both of those races should give you a good idea, although if it's your first marathon you should always treat such predictions with a grain of salt. They certainly give you an idea of your potential, however. The R&R is a hilly half, and Berlin is flat, so you have to factor in such differences. I hope you're not thinking of doing them both, however (i.e. both FD and R&R).


  • #2139
    Firedance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    kabuxa wrote: »
    I have a question... (another thinking session 😀😀😀) I was reading the estimated time of your marathons... and... I am on the ASICS plan... when I entered my 10k time gave me 4.30 finish time which I thought there is no way... Now I decided to check on other calculators and if i enter 10k tells me 4.25 ... if I enter the HM time says 4.40. How can it be such a gap? Is it normal? Or I (or anyone) should not have that much difference? Btw... I am happy to finish at anytime but of course I have to follow some guidance. Thanks!
    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    As far as I understand it, if you're a relative beginner (ie. haven't been running consistently for a number of years) those calculators get less accurate for longer distances because you don't have a big endurance base from years of training. So basically, it's less likely that us newer runners would achieve the marathon time it predicts based on our 10k times.

    I'm guessing the one it predicts from your HM time is going to be more accurate. I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm horribly wrong.

    Max is bang on. In fact, the general guideline for novices is to take your Half Marathon time, double it and add 20 mins for your marathon time. Those calculators were created for elite athletes. The more endurance training you do (the more marathon cycles you train & years you're running high mileage weeks (40+ miles) the more accurate those calculators become. So for now if you use the double it + 20 mins you'll have a more accurate time to aim for.


  • #2140
    Pomplamousse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Pomplamousse


    I haven't ran since Saturday due to another cold/cough thing. Had an appointment with a doctor today and as I was sort of suspecting, I've been told I have cough variant asthma. Yay?:o Have to start taking an inhaler so that's totally gonna help me run faster, right?....right?
    I thought I might have to take longer off running but the doctor seemed to think it'd be fine to get back into it in the next day or two so if I'm feeling up to it I might do 4 miles easy tomorrow evening & just skip this week's PMP run.


  • #2141
    kabuxa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭kabuxa


    Firedance wrote:
    Max is bang on. In fact, the general guideline for novices is to take your Half Marathon time, double it and add 20 mins for your marathon time. Those calculators were created for elite athletes. The more endurance training you do (the more marathon cycles you train & years you're running high mileage weeks (40+ miles) the more accurate those calculators become. So for now if you use the double it + 20 mins you'll have a more accurate time to aim for.


    Thanks a lot to you and Max. The gaps were so big and unrealistic... Thanks!!


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  • #2142
    scotindublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭scotindublin


    Thasks Antwerp.....will be a nice slow one at the weekend!

    Antwerp wrote: »
    Welcome back scotindublin, good luck with 1-5 mile (had to insert a hyphen as fifteen sounds enormous mileage) ��

    good plan to practice FD10 too


  • #2143
    tipping
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 446 ✭✭tipping


    Myles Splitz wrote: »

    In order to get better bang for your buck you would be better adding one mile to each of your weekly runs rather than putting them all into a longer long run for endurance and muscular strength (as well as addition of squats and a few other Strength and conditioning exercises) for the 1st few years of your running less is more in terms of the long run. If you are consistent with your 90+ long runs (but below three hours) you will gain the strength needed to get you across the line without a doubt.

    (Sorry for the long winded post)

    Fascinating post again Myles. Have added S&C into the routine but I have a few questions for you/anyone on the squats as I seem to struggle with them and am not sure that I'm getting out of them what I should be.

    What makes a good squat technique wise?
    What muscles are you trying to work out? Should you feel a burn and if so where?
    Is it aimed at strength or flexibility or both?
    What number of reps should you be doing before adding weights?


  • #2144
    Antwerp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭Antwerp


    Approximately 11,000 have already registered for DCM 2016!!!


  • #2145
    Bluesquare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Murph_D wrote: »
    I think both of those races should give you a good idea, although if it's your first marathon you should always treat such predictions with a grain of salt. They certainly give you an idea of your potential, however. The R&R is a hilly half, and Berlin is flat, so you have to factor in such differences. I hope you're not thinking of doing them both, however!

    Thanks for reply I was actually - but just got told off by my coach so the ten miler is being dumped ! For predicting my time for pacing - I am not a novice runner as in I've been running 10 years plus but only did a marathon once before seven years ago . So do I go with the half doubled plus twenty which to be fair seems realistic or look at Jack Daniels or Mac millan calculators and add some mins to be conservative ?


  • #2146
    tony1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭tony1980


    I am after coming down with a bloody flu! What is the best thing to do, just take 2-3 days off running and rest up? If so, should I try catch up on the mileage on Friday if feeling ok by then?


  • #2147
    Murph_D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,916 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Bluesquare wrote: »
    Thanks for reply I was actually - but just got told off by my coach so the ten miler is being dumped ! For predicting my time for pacing - I am not a novice runner as in I've been running 10 years plus but only did a marathon once before seven years ago . So do I go with the half doubled plus twenty which to be fair seems realistic or look at Jack Daniels or Mac millan calculators and add some mins to be conservative ?

    If you've been running regularly for 10 years and have a good base you'll probably get a very good indicator from your HM via MacMillan, I would think. Not so much for novice runners: there was a thread a couple of years ago about novice marathon times vs Macmillan, apologies if it's been posted before:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86583749


  • #2148
    nop98
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭nop98


    Pomplamousse wrote: »
    I haven't ran since Saturday due to another cold/cough thing. Had an appointment with a doctor today and as I was sort of suspecting, I've been told I have cough variant asthma. Yay?:o Have to start taking an inhaler so that's totally gonna help me run faster, right?....right?
    I thought I might have to take longer off running but the doctor seemed to think it'd be fine to get back into it in the next day or two so if I'm feeling up to it I might do 4 miles easy tomorrow evening & just skip this week's PMP run.

    Sorry to hear, Pompla - take the next day or two as instructed and don't try to make up for the missed runs. You're doing the boards plan, right? I'm worried that you might have missed a good few miles at this stage and you may consider dropping into the somewhat easier HHN1 plan going forward. Something to think about anyway. Let us know how you get on.
    tony1980 wrote: »
    I am after coming down with a bloody flu! What is the best thing to do, just take 2-3 days off running and rest up? If so, should I try catch up on the mileage on Friday if feeling ok by then?

    Rest up a bit, Tony, give your body a chance - if you return too soon, you'll end up spending more time on the sidelines. Don't try and make up for the missed mileage, just write off the session and move on.


  • #2149
    MonkstownHoop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭MonkstownHoop


    Antwerp wrote: »
    P.s. Need to find some hills later as DlR full of them for the first half!!!

    They aren't that bad, fun hills :-)


  • #2150
    long_b
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,005 ✭✭✭long_b


    The Black Oil wrote: »
    Good to hear about the Fingal 10k, saw plenty of t-shirts around Swords on my way to Star Trek Beyond. :) Not long until the FD 10 miler. :eek:

    Week 4, HHN1

    Tues: 3.13 mi. Time: 30:11. 9:38 min/mi, Avg Pace
    Weds: 4.07 mi. Time: 37:22. 9:11 min/mi, Avg Pace
    Friday: 3.04 mi. Time: 28:29. 9:23 min/mi, Avg Pace
    Sat: 9.05 mi. Time: 1:45:49. 11:41 min/mi, Avg Pace - sun started to kick around 10am, bit muggy out there. Legs felt a little stiff on one or two of the runs, Saturday was better for shaking off the cobwebs. Sleep was pretty poor last week.

    Week 3
    Week 2
    Week 1

    Hey TBO

    Interesting to see your times there.

    I'm HHN1 too - my midweek runs are around 10:25 with LSR around 11:15.

    What's your 10k time as a matter of interest? I'm about 54 mins.

    Going by your times I'd either want to speed up during the week or slow down more on the LSR (.... where have I read that before?)


  • #2151
    Pomplamousse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Pomplamousse


    nop98 wrote: »
    Sorry to hear, Pompla - take the next day or two as instructed and don't try to make up for the missed runs. You're doing the boards plan, right? I'm worried that you might have missed a good few miles at this stage and you may consider dropping into the somewhat easier HHN1 plan going forward. Something to think about anyway. Let us know how you get on.

    Thanks nop, yes it's the boards plan I'm following. So far it's only a few of the shorter easy & recovery runs that I've missed, have managed all the LSRs, so I'd like to stick to the boards plan for now. But if I don't get back into it fully soon I'll reconsider.


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  • #2152
    sibeen99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭sibeen99


    Hi guys, I'm just about to enter for DCM and wondering what wave I should pick, 2 or 3? The dream goal is sub 4 but it's still a long way off so I don't want to commit to a wave where I'll feel under pressure. Is it possible to move between waves or does it make any real difference apart from start times?!

    Thanks :)


  • #2153
    Firedance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    sibeen99 wrote: »
    Hi guys, I'm just about to enter for DCM and wondering what wave I should pick, 2 or 3? The dream goal is sub 4 but it's still a long way off so I don't want to commit to a wave where I'll feel under pressure. Is it possible to move between waves or does it make any real difference apart from start times?!

    Thanks :)

    You can move back a wave on the morning but not up so if you sign up for wave 2 now you can move back to wave 3 on the day if your training hasn't gone as planned.


  • #2154
    Firedance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    Am just catching up here on the last few days, well done to all of you with shiny new PB's after the Fingal 10K!! and looks like lots of lessons learned about race pacing, water stations and battles with other runners :) Well done to the rest of you on your weekend Long Runs, great to see the gel taking and hydration practices going well although I can't believe someone punctured a water bottle :(


  • #2155
    sibeen99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭sibeen99


    Firedance wrote: »
    You can move back a wave on the morning but not up so if you sign up for wave 2 now you can move back to wave 3 on the day if your training hasn't gone as planned.

    Thanks for that Firedance, that settle that. Time to sign up so!!


  • #2156
    tailgunner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭tailgunner


    Murph_D wrote: »
    If you've been running regularly for 10 years and have a good base you'll probably get a very good indicator from your HM via MacMillan, I would think. Not so much for novice runners: there was a thread a couple of years ago about novice marathon times vs Macmillan, apologies if it's been posted before:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86583749

    That's a great thread, thanks.


  • #2157
    nop98
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭nop98


    sibeen99 wrote: »
    Hi guys, I'm just about to enter for DCM and wondering what wave I should pick, 2 or 3? The dream goal is sub 4 but it's still a long way off so I don't want to commit to a wave where I'll feel under pressure. Is it possible to move between waves or does it make any real difference apart from start times?!

    Thanks
    Firedance wrote: »
    You can move back a wave on the morning but not up so if you sign up for wave 2 now you can move back to wave 3 on the day if your training hasn't gone as planned.

    Thanks FD - yes, moving back is allowed, moving up is not. This always comes up closer to race-day, so best to get this info out. Unlike the race-series events, where the waves are lining up behind each other, on the day itself, the waves are physically separated in different streets around the start-line.

    I just checked the official event site and it turns out the wave-structure has changes somewhat. Last year there were three waves, now there are 4:
    The race starts in waves as follows: 08:55 : Wheelchair entrants 09:00 : 1st wave Sub 3:35 09:10 : 2nd wave 3:35 to 4:05 09:20 : 3rd wave 4:05 to 4:35 09:30 : Final wave 4:35 +
    This suggests to me that the 3:40, 3:50 and 4:00 pace-groups are in Wave 2, the 4:10, 4:20, and 4:30s in wave 3, etc.

    Firedance is right, if you think you're on the fence, just grab the earlier wave and you can always move back if you want to. What's more important is that you line up, within the wave, at the right spot (not too far forward, and not too far back).

    We'll get to all that!
    sibeen99 wrote: »
    Thanks for that Firedance, that settle that. Time to sign up so!!

    Good stuff!


  • #2158
    nop98
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭nop98


    Pomplamousse wrote: »
    Thanks nop, yes it's the boards plan I'm following. So far it's only a few of the shorter easy & recovery runs that I've missed, have managed all the LSRs, so I'd like to stick to the boards plan for now. But if I don't get back into it fully soon I'll reconsider.

    Okay - glad to hear you're still on track.


  • #2159
    FITZA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 301 ✭✭FITZA


    Murph_D wrote: »
    If you've been running regularly for 10 years and have a good base you'll probably get a very good indicator from your HM via MacMillan, I would think. Not so much for novice runners: there was a thread a couple of years ago about novice marathon times vs Macmillan, apologies if it's been posted before:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86583749

    Thanks for that link Murph_D, great information...have just read a few and definitely an eye opener re indicators. Will read it all later when I've more time. Another question....I know this is a bit early to be asking.....what pacing group should be followed? The more conservative and hope all goes well and can push on a bit near the end, or the slightly more 'aggressive' pace and drop back if not going well?


  • #2160
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Murph_D wrote: »
    If you've been running regularly for 10 years and have a good base you'll probably get a very good indicator from your HM via MacMillan, I would think. Not so much for novice runners: there was a thread a couple of years ago about novice marathon times vs Macmillan, apologies if it's been posted before:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86583749

    A lot of food for thought there. I only want to do the marathon if I can get sub-4. I know I'll get in trouble for saying that, but I just know my own mind and I'd be really disappointed with anything less. But based on that, it doesn't look like I'll get it!!


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  • #2161
    Murph_D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,916 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    A lot of food for thought there. I only want to do the marathon if I can get sub-4. I know I'll get in trouble for saying that, but I just know my own mind and I'd be really disappointed with anything less. But based on that, it doesn't look like I'll get it!!

    I kind of felt like that myself in 2012. I didn't quite make the sub-4 but I was wrong about how disappointed I would be.


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