Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

seananigans · 12-07-2016 09:53PM

blackcard wrote: »

Because they don't have players as good as Waterford have

derek found these players ,made these players,moulded them in many cases from 12 years old onwards, he is the main reason these players exist, this is a team 12 or 13 years in the making mostly by dereks hand ,he loses one match and you dump him, are you deluded ?

JesusRef · 12-07-2016 09:54PM

letsseehere14 wrote: »

Yes it is the same Clare. The same Clare who were easily second best to Waterford in all 3 matches this year despite winning the league. The same Clare who we're relegated from 1a in 2015. The same Clare who were unimpressive against us in the league and blessed against Tipp, both played in Ennis. The same Clare who have hardly won a Munster championship match for 20 years. The same Clare who were knocked out meekly the last two seasons by 2 poor sides losing to Cork twice and Wexford in the 2014 and 2015 seasons. If Clare are so good then Cork must be exceptional? They couldn't even beat Wexford in Ennis.
U21 does not translate into senior success. 2013 was an outlier, thats undeniable, where they didnt have to play the big two. Not their fault but still fact. Dublin, Cork and Clares performances in the Championship over the last 3 seasons (2016 included to date) showed that Clare cannot he counted as genuine contenders until the actually show it again on the field. This is their 3rd year running where they have not as yet.
They're better than Limerick, Dublin at the moment. Probably better than Cork this year, not last year or the year before. Christ the only bet Cork after a replay in 2013.
They have the individual players to be challengers. They have the potential but they have not shown it over the 2014, 2015 and so far this year. Don't put so much weight on league wins.

I have to say I agree with all of this - 2013 is such an outlier, look at Shane O'Donnell.. 3 goals in the final and yes he has had injury problems but he has hardly hit a ball in championship since.

It's gas the way some pundits still go on about Clare vs Kilkenny or Tipp but Clare havent been good enough to stay in the championship long enough to play either.

There was a lot of hype surrounding Clare and Waterford earlier in the year but the fact is that the form lines were against each other and mean nothing later in the summer when compared to the bigger teams.

Both Waterford and Clare can and should be proud of the displays of their senior teams - terrifically committed young men, but they are in the 2nd tier that is just a fact.

Whiplash85 · 12-07-2016 10:04PM

Up to last Saturday Clare had only won 2 championship games since 2013. Both of those were against Laois. Just think about that for a second. They are over hyped and much of this is owing to the media pre occupation with Davy. If Shefflin wasn't sent off in 2013 against Cork Clare would still be looking for an AI.

tomwaterford · 12-07-2016 10:07PM

seananigans wrote: »

derek found these players ,made these players,moulded them in many cases from 12 years old onwards, he is the main reason these players exist, this is a team 12 or 13 years in the making mostly by dereks hand ,he loses one match and you dump him, are you deluded ?

He was a coach in DLS college AFAIK

The team is very western heavy....if your going to lie....make it believable

Don't dump him...dump this ****e of a tactic....go toe to toe with Wexford and out score them??
We've the players to do so

glued · 12-07-2016 10:08PM

seananigans wrote: »

derek found these players ,made these players,moulded them in many cases from 12 years old onwards, he is the main reason these players exist, this is a team 12 or 13 years in the making mostly by dereks hand ,he loses one match and you dump him, are you deluded ?

I think the problem Waterford have now is that Derek McGrath proved that there was no plan B yesterday. I don't think you can dump him now but another heavy loss or another poor display like yesterday will surely finish him. I don't like the system. It'll put a huge challenge in front the next management team if they intend on going 15 v 15 as Waterford hurling has invested so heavily in the system over the past few years.

PTH2009 · 12-07-2016 10:15PM

If Derek was too go who would take over ???

Antony Daly will get the Limerick job I think, if not him JP will pay to bring in a big name (Liam Sheedy etc)

We don't have the finances for a big name manager. If the under 21 management do well they will eventually move to the senior team

Still Derek deserves more time and is contracted til 2018 AFAIK

seananigans · 12-07-2016 10:21PM

glued wrote: »

I think the problem Waterford have now is that Derek McGrath proved that there was no plan B yesterday. I don't think you can dump him now but another heavy loss or another poor display like yesterday will surely finish him. I don't like the system. It'll put a huge challenge in front the next management team if they intend on going 15 v 15 as Waterford hurling has invested so heavily in the system over the past few years.

ironically he went to plan b when losing by 2 to lose by 21 had he stuck to plan a it oculd have been different

seananigans · 12-07-2016 10:22PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

He was a coach in DLS college AFAIK

The team is very western heavy....if your going to lie....make it believable

Don't dump him...dump this ****e of a tactic....go toe to toe with Wexford and out score them??
We've the players to do so

you made no sense there at all

tomwaterford · 12-07-2016 10:24PM

seananigans wrote: »

you made no sense there at all

You said McGrath found and trained these player since age 12-13

When it was not possible??

I'm sorry if the belief that Waterford have quality of players to out score most opposition deosnt make sense to you?

danganabu · 12-07-2016 10:43PM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Up to last Saturday Clare had only won 2 championship games since 2013. Both of those were against Laois. Just think about that for a second. They are over hyped and much of this is owing to the media pre occupation with Davy. If Shefflin wasn't sent off in 2013 against Cork Clare would still be looking for an AI.

History has proven the true worth of that Cork team as well.

blackcard · 12-07-2016 11:00PM

seananigans wrote: »

derek found these players ,made these players,moulded them in many cases from 12 years old onwards, he is the main reason these players exist, this is a team 12 or 13 years in the making mostly by dereks hand ,he loses one match and you dump him, are you deluded ?

I never said anything about dumping Derek, he seems to be a very admirable person, I think he could refine his tactics

The blue blaa · 12-07-2016 11:01PM

seananigans wrote: »

right lads to anyone asking for dereks head ,basically, shut up

how many matches has he won result he ground out one match and you're riding him?

feck off this is a man who has a quadriplegic wheelchair bound child and finds time to manage waterford and give his all, you have to respect his commitment and his guile, hes not expected to get it right every time if it was so easy you would all be doing it

we have over achieved the last 2 years and one bad result does not change that , didnt tipp get fired out of Munster in 2010 and we all know how that ended

tis easy to support them in the good times,but this forum is for the hardcore people, they need our support more than ever right now, the waterford never say die attitude has sadly been lacking here the last few days, so unless you can take a jersey off aussie shut up and put up, this is our team,and we need to be behind them , anyone who wants to throw daggers, start in ferrybank and keep heading north until you feel at home

I think your mistaking Derek for his fellow teacher and friend in DLS College.. Dermot Dooley.

hurler on de ditch · 12-07-2016 11:35PM

seananigans wrote: »

derek found these players ,made these players,moulded them in many cases from 12 years old onwards, he is the main reason these players exist, this is a team 12 or 13 years in the making mostly by dereks hand ,he loses one match and you dump him, are you deluded ?

jayus looks to me that he has spent 12 or 13 years knocking the hurling out of them ,never heard such a ridiculous statement ,ever

Bonniedog · 12-07-2016 11:46PM

meathhurler48 wrote: »

Why don't you clear off to the Dublin thread or the Paddy Power app. We don't need your cynical comments on this thread.

Why don't Meath start a fkn ice hockey team or something

That was your fifth and sixth post I see.

People here cross county sites to talk about hurling. Not that you'd know anything about that.

I am as much critical of Dublin as Waterford.

And as I said, I loved watching Waterford in their prime. They played the game the way it was meant to be played. Were part of some of the best games of last 30 years.

People are here and on other sites to talk about games. If that offends you I am sure there must be a Kilmainhamwood junior C match on the way to keep you occupied.

robopaddy2 · 13-07-2016 01:27AM

seananigans wrote: »

blackcard;100337523Because they don't have players as good as Waterford have

derek found these players ,made these players,moulded them in many cases from 12 years old onwards, he is the main reason these players exist, this is a team 12 or 13 years in the making mostly by dereks hand ,he loses one match and you dump him, are you deluded ?

What are you ranting about. Derek found no one at 12 or 13. You trying to say they were picked up off the street as urchins or something? For starters only a fraction of this squad came through DLS. Even Gleeson only moved to DLS school after the junior cert to get the opportunity of playing Harty Cup. The clubs are the ones that produced these players. Something the 'loyal' intercounty fans overlook. Take the East Waterford Pro-Derek blinkers off. Also, that info about someone in Derek's family. I know you mean no malice but its incorrect so Id be careful before spouting s***e

robopaddy2 · 13-07-2016 01:49AM

waterford28 wrote: »

U21 Team Announced

1. Jordan Henley
2. Willie Hahessy
3. Conor Gleeson
4. Darragh Lyons
5. Micheal Harney
6. Austin Gleeson
7. Conor Prunty
8. Mark O Brien
9. Colm Roche
10. Darren Foran
11. Tom Devine
12. Mikey Kearney
13. Patrick Curran
14. Shane Bennett
15. Steven Bennett

Looks a good team on paper but unfortunately the game is played on grass. (Brian Clough)

I'm not overly optimistic for a number of reasons. The result on Sunday obviously being a big one. Can't be good for morale, particularly with the lads that are involved in both panels. What kind of system will we play? Will it be that sweeper system again and if so will the players have enough confidence in it now following Sundays capitulation?
Another is our record of the last few years. We've had some good teams but ultimately fail to deliver, losing games we are expected to win. The excuses are lack of cooperation between senior and u21 management, u21s getting little or no time to prepare with the lads on the senior panel. Has that changed this year? I have my doubts.

On the line-out itself its close to the team I would have picked with a full panel to pick from. Plenty of individual talent there we know. I'm hoping for a big performance from Stephen Bennett, he's been waiting for a chance all the year. Whether they line-out like this remains to be seen. I would have had Prunty at fullback and maybe Conor Gleeson in the corner with Darragh Lyons out on the wing. Molumby unlucky not to start but a good man coming off the bench. Shanagher obviously the guy to watch for Clare, and in Bobby Duggan they have an outstanding free-taker. They will be an tough outfit and like Clare u21 sides of recent years, well drilled and prepared, even if not of the same quality.
I have my fingers crossed for the lads as a win would give everyone a huge boost. I'd give us a 50/50 chance, hard to give us more than that given the mitigating factors against us.

Cake Man · 13-07-2016 02:22AM

Funny enough, as it's coming around to this game I'm a little more optimistic. I'm hopeful that Sunday (although in the players minds) will not play any significant part tonight. 5 of the starting team were involved Sunday so there are still 10 lads fresh (and mentally unscathed!) plus a few off the bench. The hope is that the 5 lads will be bulling to prove Sunday was just a one-off disaster. I think it'd probably be worse if there wasn't another game for a few weeks, it might be for the best to just get right back into it and try get confidence back for Sunday week.

Here's hoping anyway. Any list of subs?

cornerboy · 13-07-2016 07:21AM

I sincerely hope Waterford win tonight, but winning an U21 match will do nothing to erase the damage done last sunday.

blueflame · 13-07-2016 09:14AM

Strong looking U-21 side, - really hope we go conventional and really go for the game from the start with blood and thunder.

Ridiculous to think that this team could play to a "system" given that as a team they have hardly trained together - developing a "system2 takes a massive amount of time and work as it is based on everyone their place in the system and how to play to it. Just because their is so many of the senior team involved a lot of them are only part of the panel.

Personally i would move Colm Roche to Center Forward, Devine to wing Forward and Kearney to midfield - that would give us three big strong men in the half forward line, with a potentially lethal full forward line and my aim would be to get as much ball into the forward lines as quickly as possible.

If Clare opt to play a sweeper it will be even more crucial to apply as much pressure in that part of the field to limit the supply of ball into Shannagher as we know he is a ball winner and can be a real handful. Cutting the supply off at the source is the better option. If we play with only 5 forward and they play with 7 back they wil have loads of time on teh ball so this must be prevented

DeiseDawg · 13-07-2016 09:14AM

Come on the U21s and Seniors v Wexford.
Get back in the saddle and 'giddy-up'.

meathhurler48 · 13-07-2016 09:33AM

Sonny. I'm a hurling man. I've been watching Waterford since 1948. Enough said.

Horseboxhead · 13-07-2016 09:53AM

yeah Looking forward too tonight now, What can you do?, Seen to many days Like last sunday following Waterford, but who else can i follow ?, and why would i ?, We follow Waterford and that's it, yeah you can criticise, and have an Opinion, everybody should be allowed that, so Tonight 7pm Walsh Park, off mad again.
Don't think that team is going to line out as selected, i think Prunty will be full back, good time for that lad, big , mobile able to hurl, i think he's a cracking wing back though, needs some aggression though, big games needed from everyone, and who knows might see another star in the making tonight, and a rediscovery of what we thought we had in Stephen Bennett and D.J. Foran, jesus i think we'll win, Austin Gleeson to score four Points, Stephen Bennett and D.J flying in from the wing, [if placed there], C'mon Waterford, and let's hurl a bit and let Clare worry about us, none of this Slow start ****e, let's go right at them, at home , plenty of big time Players on display, Looking forward to see young Gleeson of fourmile Hurl, tearing it up in senior club, looks as if he has filled out, dancing feet too, good hurler, so if its a sweeper at home against a team, this current side Spanked in Dungarvan 3 years ago, well that would be handing them a huge advantage, and still after all this time, i'm not sure it really fits us, fits the way we hurl, no problem with defensive Solidity, has to be a balance though, and tonight's the recovery, let's bate the ****e off 'em.

JeffKenna · 13-07-2016 10:05AM

Horseboxhead wrote: »

yeah Looking forward too tonight now, What can you do?, Seen to many days Like last sunday following Waterford, but who else can i follow ?, and why would i ?, We follow Waterford and that's it,

Haha even if it were accepted to change who you support akin to soccer in England I would never ever want to support Kilkenny or Tipp or Cork for that matter so I'd be pretty much goosed.

Definitely not Clare either, nearly forgot about them.

rebel girl 15 · 13-07-2016 11:52AM

I've dealt with the posts above which were not acceptable - any posts you do feel breach the forum charter, please report them and not react, or you will also have to face consequences

meathhurler48 · 13-07-2016 12:44PM

Sure why would we ever even think of supporting anybody else? We are Waterford through and through.

Come on the Deise.

Twiceasnice97 · 13-07-2016 01:57PM

Horseboxhead wrote: »

yeah Looking forward too tonight now, What can you do?, Seen to many days Like last sunday following Waterford, but who else can i follow ?, and why would i ?, We follow Waterford and that's it, yeah you can criticise, and have an Opinion, everybody should be allowed that, so Tonight 7pm Walsh Park, off mad again.
Don't think that team is going to line out as selected, i think Prunty will be full back, good time for that lad, big , mobile able to hurl, i think he's a cracking wing back though, needs some aggression though, big games needed from everyone, and who knows might see another star in the making tonight, and a rediscovery of what we thought we had in Stephen Bennett and D.J. Foran, jesus i think we'll win, Austin Gleeson to score four Points, Stephen Bennett and D.J flying in from the wing, [if placed there], C'mon Waterford, and let's hurl a bit and let Clare worry about us, none of this Slow start ****e, let's go right at them, at home , plenty of big time Players on display, Looking forward to see young Gleeson of fourmile Hurl, tearing it up in senior club, looks as if he has filled out, dancing feet too, good hurler, so if its a sweeper at home against a team, this current side Spanked in Dungarvan 3 years ago, well that would be handing them a huge advantage, and still after all this time, i'm not sure it really fits us, fits the way we hurl, no problem with defensive Solidity, has to be a balance though, and tonight's the recovery, let's bate the ****e off 'em.

of tonights starting team only mcguane conroy gleeson and Duggan started and gleeson was wing back.
the core of the team is players who were left out by a p1ss poor minor management and the core of the team that played in 2014 which was a bit less comfortable for waterford

my information is that the players on the senior squad have not trained even once as an under 21 group.

I feel waterford should win this but any sign of a brittle mentality and Clare have the players to win it particularly if shanaher gets a supply of ball.

the defence and midfield have tons of pace and stamina so if we can stay in the game as we did the other night against limericks intermediates when they absolutely ran the legs off them in the latter stages we have a right chance

a shootout though and waterford have the aces

Deise_2012 · 13-07-2016 04:52PM

Who's the joint captain with Patrick Curran

KevIRL · 13-07-2016 06:42PM

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Who's the joint captain with Patrick Curran

Adam Farrell

KevIRL · 13-07-2016 06:52PM

Grand evening for it.

PTH2009 · 13-07-2016 06:59PM

Good enough crowd here. Hopefully a an historic win for us tonight

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1