Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

crottys lake · 11-07-2016 05:55PM

When a team has been playing to a high standard for a couple of seasons, like Waterford, and then suddenly suffers a catastrophic defeat there is always a reason. Generally, if something seems too bad or too good to be true then you can take it that is the case yesterday. It was too bad to be true. This result was a one off but that is not to say that very serious lessons have to be taken on board and quickly at that before we play Wexford.

The management have already accepted the blame so I will agree with them that they should. The team were over trained, they were leaden legged, everyone of them bar Kevin Moran and one of the subs, Connor Cleeson. People here are saying that Brick should be dropped, what a load of nonsense. If we were to take that approach then all of the players could be dropped from yesterday bar the two I named and that would be plain ridiculous.

The under 21 game will put further pressure on already tired limbs in the build up to Sunday week. There is really only a nine day break in reality from Wednesday night's game as one does not count match day itself. A lot of the players will be playing three games in a forthnight, not a good preparation against a rejuvenated Wexford outfit who are already scenting blood.

The management are going to have to freshen the players bodies and minds up somehow. The mental state now is just as important as the physical. They can also look at how many of our players were in the media on the build up to yesterday. I know they have duties to the supporters etc but I never feel this is a good idea. Stay out of the media and concentrate on the game.

I think we can turn it around, you do not become a bad team overnight but we will have to be at our best to overcome the resurgent Wexford men.

I would also like to see Stephen Bennett start on Sunday week. I never like naming players on this or any other forum but according to what happened yesterday he now seems to be only number eleven in the pecking order where our forwards are concerned and to be honest I am amazed at this situation. He is a lethal threat if left near the goal and I have no doubt but that he can contribute to our cause.

I wish the team and management well now over the intervening days leading up to the match and I am sure they can get it right. We must all stick together and get behind them and travel in numbers to Semple Stadium.

boggerman1 · 11-07-2016 06:06PM

Brick walsh has always been way overrated.the system is bust and won't win anything playing constipated hurling like that

PTH2009 · 11-07-2016 06:22PM

Tickets on sale now for the quarter finals. On tickets.ie .Our game throws in at 2pm

Why are the Munster u21 semi finals played so late, the Leinster championship is done and dusted.

Think the game has come too soon for our already dejected senior panelists but the non senior panelists will have to step up. This is prob the weakest under 21 team Clare has had for the last few years but same was said in 2014 about the Cork u21s and they beat our star studded team very well in Walsh Park. Still there are a good few top players in this Clare team and they beat out intermediates well last month which was made up of our non senior under 21 panelists.

Hoping for a dry day both Wednesday and next Sunday. The system fails miserably in wet weather

sleepyholland · 11-07-2016 08:34PM

Dick phelan wrote: »

Lastly our shooting needs to improve, yesterday wasn't a one off in that regard, in loads of games even those we've won we waste an awful lot of chances that needs to improve because me must have had more wides then scores yesterday.

I think as a group the players decision making in the heat of battle needs to improve enormously. Maybe it's to be expected from such a young squad, but over the last 18 months, even when winning games, it always seems like they are making games more difficult for themselves by taking the wrong attacking option too often: trying to solo past the 3rd man after beating 2 and especially when it comes to taking on difficult shots under pressure.

I know that's partly down to a lack of forward passing options, but far too often the players take on hopeful 50/50 shots when a bit more composure and awareness would allow them to find a 20 yard sideways, or if needed, backwards pass to an open teammate, in a better shooting position.

Shooting under such pressure leads to many wides. Every wide just hands free possession to the opposition, especially when you're not pressing their short puck out.

Convert 10 of those first have wides into 5 scores from easier positions (concede that passing all ten won't lead to 10 shots) and you'll have made good progress.

Dick phelan · 11-07-2016 09:03PM

boggerman1 wrote: »

Brick walsh has always been way overrated.the system is bust and won't win anything playing constipated hurling like that

That's very unfair on the Brick tbh, he isn't and never was a forward, he is past his prime but let's not rewrite history and forget how great he has been for us over the years, Been a great servant and player for Waterford but imo it's time for him to go.

freedominacup · 11-07-2016 09:44PM

Has the "system" ever delivered a win in a championship match against one of the top teams. Before yesterday it prevented big losses but has it ever delivered a win?

blackcard · 11-07-2016 09:51PM

I don't think Waterford will play as badly again. 10 wides in the first half and conceding a soft goal. Then, heads dropped after the second goal. The weather conditions didn't suit the Waterford style of play. A slight modification with one extra man at the back and playing with five forwards may be the way to go. Regaining morale is the biggest challenge after a defeat like yesterday. To be honest, I couldn't understand the extreme confidence of people on here. Tipp are probably the best team in the country at the moment.

wats the craic · 11-07-2016 10:04PM

blackcard wrote: »

I don't think Waterford will play as badly again. 10 wides in the first half and conceding a soft goal. Then, heads dropped after the second goal. The weather conditions didn't suit the Waterford style of play. A slight modification with one extra man at the back and playing with five forwards may be the way to go. Regaining morale is the biggest challenge after a defeat like yesterday. To be honest, I couldn't understand the extreme confidence of people on here. Tipp are probably the best team in the country at the moment.

does it not rain in waterford or something , ye better have your head right for sunday week ,because our boys will be waiting it could one hell of a battle . we should out number ye 2 to 1 in the crowd so the atmosphere will be quare i tell ya san

blackcard · 11-07-2016 10:07PM

wats the craic wrote: »

does it not rain in waterford or something , ye better have your head right for sunday week ,because our boys will be waiting it could one hell of a battle . we should out number ye 2 to 1 in the crowd so the atmosphere will be quare i tell ya san

I am not from Waterford, hope it is a good game

seananigans · 11-07-2016 10:16PM

right lads to anyone asking for dereks head ,basically, shut up

how many matches has he won result he ground out one match and you're riding him?

feck off this is a man who has a quadriplegic wheelchair bound child and finds time to manage waterford and give his all, you have to respect his commitment and his guile, hes not expected to get it right every time if it was so easy you would all be doing it

we have over achieved the last 2 years and one bad result does not change that , didnt tipp get fired out of Munster in 2010 and we all know how that ended

tis easy to support them in the good times,but this forum is for the hardcore people, they need our support more than ever right now, the waterford never say die attitude has sadly been lacking here the last few days, so unless you can take a jersey off aussie shut up and put up, this is our team,and we need to be behind them , anyone who wants to throw daggers, start in ferrybank and keep heading north until you feel at home

thesultan · 11-07-2016 10:19PM

We started with one forward inside the 65. Crazy stuff. We ran into traffic too much too. Our short play game doesn't suit the conditions.

tomwaterford · 11-07-2016 10:20PM

seananigans wrote: »

right lads to anyone asking for dereks head ,basically, shut up

how many matches has he won result he ground out one match and you're riding him?

feck off this is a man who has a quadriplegic wheelchair bound child and finds time to manage waterford and give his all, you have to respect his commitment and his guile, hes not expected to get it right every time if it was so easy you would all be doing it

we have over achieved the last 2 years and one bad result does not change that , didnt tipp get fired out of Munster in 2010 and we all know how that ended

tis easy to support them in the good times,but this forum is for the hardcore people, they need our support more than ever right now, the waterford never say die attitude has sadly been lacking here the last few days, so unless you can take a jersey off aussie shut up and put up, this is our team,and we need to be behind them , anyone who wants to throw daggers, start in ferrybank and keep heading north until you feel at home

Not asking for his head...but wanting an end to this system

It's been exposed how to beat it....

Do you not see that tipp will do the same again if they met in the morning???

It's bad when at the back of it....you don't want to see Waterford playing kk as you should be relishing a crack at them

There's no point in burying the head in the sand and pretending it was a freak one-off result

seananigans · 11-07-2016 10:30PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Not asking for his head...but wanting an end to this system

It's bad when at the back of it....you don't want to see Waterford playing kk as you should be relishing a crack at them

There's no point in burying the head in the sand and pretending it was a freak one-off result

this the same kk we rode earlier in the year yeah ?

it was a freak one off result ,in that is happened once, and no one was expecting it, that is exactly the definition of what happened

tomwaterford · 11-07-2016 10:35PM

seananigans wrote: »

this the same kk we rode earlier in the year yeah ?

it was a freak one off result ,in that is happened once, and no one was expecting it, that is exactly the definition of what happened

Do you not see it failed 100%

It's dead in the water as a tactic to Persue it further is a criminal waste of talent at the disposal

Mcgrath has done a great job...but if he persists with a tactic that's doomed to failure...

I do believe he have it in him to lay out a team and come up with s better more suited tactic....

If they played tipp tomorrow morning playing same as Sunday would they win....simple yes/no question??

JeffKenna · 11-07-2016 10:41PM

seananigans wrote: »

this the same kk we rode earlier in the year yeah ?

it was a freak one off result ,in that is happened once, and no one was expecting it, that is exactly the definition of what happened

Yes the same kilkenny who were just back from their team holiday so I wouldn't read too much into that result.

seananigans · 11-07-2016 10:43PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Do you not see it failed 100%

It's dead in the water as a tactic to Persue it further is a criminal waste of talent at the disposal

Mcgrath has done a great job...but if he persists with a tactic that's doomed to failure...

I do believe he have it in him to lay out a team and come up with s better more suited tactic....

If they played tipp tomorrow morning playing same as Sunday would they win....simple yes/no question??

]]sure youre right sure didnt kk in 2010 change everything they did because they lost a single match

nonsense of the highest order if it continues to happen sure, but this was a once off at least for now

deisechap09 · 11-07-2016 10:43PM

Amazing to see some of the comments re our system since yesterday - Our system didn't lose that game for us lads, we seriously underperformed all over the field - We could have set up 15 on 15 etc yesterday but we simply wouldn't have won given the amount of errors we made.

Our first touch was poor, striking poor, decision-making all over the place and aerially completely dominated.

These players are far better than how they performed yesterday, and will improve again - If we do beat Wexford it might actually help going in under the radar against the cats, but Wexford will give us enough of it in 2 weeks.

Fred C Dobbs · 11-07-2016 10:46PM

Still a bit shellshocked after yesterday - even at half time, you wouldn't have foreseen the 2nd half meltdown. Hard to fathom really. For a team that thrives on workrate, honesty etc. it was hard to watch Tipp walking all over us.

Aussie, for all his talent, is putting a target on his own back to get sent off. Don't know why Shane Bennett was left on Pauric Maher for so long which was an obvious mismatch but Shane will come good for many years to come. Lastly, what about those assholes in the uncovered stand who jeered at the Waterford wides even when their own team were well ahead.

Need to freshen things up if we are to get over Wexford (e.g. surely some of the panellists must be raring to get some game time) and throw caution to the wind against Kilkenny. Personally, I think Devine has to start as were lacking in big strong forwards (who also have some pace) and likewise Stephen Bennett.

tomwaterford · 11-07-2016 10:48PM

seananigans wrote: »

]]sure youre right sure didnt kk in 2010 change everything they did because they lost a single match

nonsense of the highest order if it continues to happen sure, but this was a once off at least for now

I don't in my lifetime recall any team having a complete malfunction as what occurred Sunday except Waterford in all Ireland 08

This was worse than when tipp took them for 7 goals a few years ago....beaten in each and every position...,,it was apparent well before the end all semblance of teamwork And work rate was adbandoned

How ever bad you play/going there's no excuse for giving up....keep plugging away and try keep scoreline respectable and try win next 10 mins etc....it's not unreasonable belief to hold

Deise2016 · 11-07-2016 10:50PM

Reasons to be positive.

1. We have one of the best top top players in the country in Austin Gleeson

2. A core of very good young players in the 18 - 24 age bracket including forwards with great potential in Curran, Devine and the Bennetts

3. In Jamie Barron we have one of the best midfield players around at the moment

4. We played a very good Clare side off the pitch a few weeks ago in Thurles

What needs to be done, in my opinion.

1. No goals in recent games against Tipp and Kilkenny means we need to target goals. We have too few players on the pitch that carry a goal threat and far too many that don't. The players that can score goals ( Shanahan, Devine, Curran, Bennett, Dunford) need to be in the team at the expense of those that don't have a goal threat. If that means lads such as Brick Walsh and Pauric Mahoney, who don't offer a goal threat, don't start then so be it. We need to score more goals and to do this we need to have the likes of Devine, Shanahan and Dunford on the pitch.

2. A rejig of the defence as the tried and trusted may be good enough against Wexford but won't beat Kilkenny.
I would like to see a full back line of Conor Gleeson and Shane Fives in the corners with Connors full back. Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony wing backs with Austin Gleeson centre back. Then have De Burca playing as a sweeper and free to slot in centre back to cover Austin when he drives forward from there.

3. At least two forwards if not three (Devine, Curran and Shanahan) in close to goal at all times.

4. Yesterday to be forgotten about. Learned from but forgotten about. We have a committed, dedicated group of players and management that have made us proud over the last couple of years. We need to get behind them and travel to Thurles in numbers come Sunday week

tomwaterford · 11-07-2016 10:53PM

Connors there for the taking at full back-lack of pace/height???

seananigans · 11-07-2016 10:54PM

Deise2016 wrote: »

Reasons to be positive.

1. We have one of the best top top players in the country in Austin Gleeson

2. A core of very good young players in the 18 - 24 age bracket including forwards with great potential in Curran, Devine and the Bennetts

3. In Jamie Barron we have one of the best midfield players around at the moment

4. We played a very good Clare side off the pitch a few weeks ago in Thurles

What needs to be done, in my opinion.

1. No goals in recent games against Tipp and Kilkenny means we need to target goals. We have too few players on the pitch that carry a goal threat and far too many that don't. The players that can score goals ( Shanahan, Devine, Curran, Bennett, Dunford) need to be in the team at the expense of those that don't have a goal threat. If that means lads such as Brick Walsh and Pauric Mahoney, who don't offer a goal threat, don't start then so be it. We need to score more goals and to do this we need to have the likes of Devine, Shanahan and Dunford on the pitch.

2. A rejig of the defence as the tried and trusted may be good enough against Wexford but won't beat Kilkenny.
I would like to see a full back line of Conor Gleeson and Shane Fives in the corners with Connors full back. Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony wing backs with Austin Gleeson centre back. Then have De Burca playing as a sweeper and free to slot in centre back to cover Austin when he drives forward from there.

3. At least two forwards if not three (Devine, Curran and Shanahan) in close to goal at all times.

4. Yesterday to be forgotten about. Learned from but forgotten about. We have a committed, dedicated group of players and management that have made us proud over the last couple of years. We need to get behind them and travel to Thurles in numbers come Sunday week

hold on now nr 2. barry coughlan didnt get nominated on an allstar for nothing that long has done nothing wrong, he has been solid for us, only reason hes not talked about is he is doing s good job ,leave him be

deisechap09 · 11-07-2016 11:00PM

In fairness to our backs, yesterday was just an off-day. Never seen Philip Mahony and D Fives hit as little ball as that.

Its probably harsh on Coughlan to be removed, he hasnt done anything wrong and was probably unlucky with the penalty. When we do go back to a more orthodox style, D Fives is surely the answer at centre back

mickmackmcgoo · 11-07-2016 11:51PM

Those saddos who tweeted about Maurice should be ashamed of themselves . Some sick people about . All of us here to an extent are hiding behind an alias but those keyboard warriors I hope karma bites them in the ass big time

wexilad · 12-07-2016 12:13AM

Really looking forward to facing yez lads. Nothing other than a 50/50 game in my opinion , there is never much more than a score between us. I would advise all Waterford supporters not to lose hope after Sunday's poor showing, we felt the same after our dismal showing against Dublin and we are now right back in the championship! Sport is funny sometimes and I expect a huge response from Waterford and we better be ready for it.

independent11 · 12-07-2016 12:41AM

wats the craic wrote: »

we should out number ye 2 to 1 in the crowd so the atmosphere will be quare i tell ya san

Your supporters didn't travel on Saturday night to Thurles, the least supported county there by far. Will they be crawling out of the woodwork and suddenly become yellow belly die hards by sunday week ?

robopaddy2 · 12-07-2016 12:56AM

deisechap09 wrote: »

In fairness to our backs, yesterday was just an off-day. Never seen Philip Mahony and D Fives hit as little ball as that.

Its probably harsh on Coughlan to be removed, he hasnt done anything wrong and was probably unlucky with the penalty. When we do go back to a more orthodox style, D Fives is surely the answer at centre back

Look the system is designed to give the fullback loads of protection. No disrespect to Coughlan but my granny could do a job at fullback with this system. The role he is asked to do is play the man rather than the ball, that is all well and good until you come up against the likes of Callinan like we saw yesterday, you're always going to be tethering on the brink. For John McGraths goal where he ran straight through the middle and booted it in, there is no way there should have been that much space in front of SOK. A conventional full back would have been manning this space but instead our full back had been dragged way out to open this space for the in-rushing Tipp forwards. In a nutshell Tipp cracked us wide open and the worst thing is that in hindsight it didn't take rocket-science to suss us out

robopaddy2 · 12-07-2016 03:29AM

seananigans wrote: »

this the same kk we rode earlier in the year yeah ?

No this the KK that await in the semi for us if we beat Wexford. Different beast entirely

Cake Man · 12-07-2016 04:09AM

Yeah there's a world of difference between first game of the league in February and an AI semi final in August. KK never have any problems in AI semi finals (I can't even remember the last time they lost one?) so ourselves or Wexford are in for a daunting task.

Clare 21 team for Weds:
Vaughan,
Hayes, Fitz, Cooney
McCarthy, McGuane, O'Gorman
Conroy, Hehir
Donnellan, Duggan, Gleeson
Taylor, Crehan, Shanagher.

Maybe Prunty to man-mark Shanagher? Given that Shanagher is a big lad and an aerial threat, we'll need an equally big and physically imposing player to match him.
If we win and Tipp beat Limerick in the other semi final, I'm fairly sure we'd have home advantage for the Munster final. Last time we played Tipp in U21 was 2011 in Thurles so I'm assuming the alternating home/away rule is still in place. Munster GAA website only gives U21 results back as far as 2009 and we haven't met Limerick at this grade since then so not sure if we played them home or away last.

Edit: Hammered at home in 08 the last time v Limerick at u21 so assuming away the next time we meet.

cul beag · 12-07-2016 06:06AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Look the system is designed to give the fullback loads of protection. No disrespect to Coughlan but my granny could do a job at fullback with this system. The role he is asked to do is play the man rather than the ball, that is all well and good until you come up against the likes of Callinan like we saw yesterday, you're always going to be tethering on the brink. For John McGraths goal where he ran straight through the middle and booted it in, there is no way there should have been that much space in front of SOK. A conventional full back would have been manning this space but instead our full back had been dragged way out to open this space for the in-rushing Tipp forwards. In a nutshell Tipp cracked us wide open and the worst thing is that in hindsight it didn't take rocket-science to suss us out

Well put.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1