Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

Michael O Toole · 12-07-2016 11:46AM

Going Forward wrote: »

I'm not inspired by news of a Garda "probe" into a case alleging failures of the Gardai, the findings of which will be given to the Garda Commisioner?

Was the case actually closed?

Why these further machinations about investigating it?

I don't know why people keep putting quote marks around the word probe. Gemma O'Doherty did it on Twitter, earlier. Quite strange.

The case was never closed. Machinations is a singular word to use as well.

It's quite simple. The cold case unit review the original case ab initio. With fresh eyes and making no assumptions (that means not accepting that someone is a suspect. They follow the evidence.)
Then they will make recommendations to the Commissioner who will act on them. That's why it's called a review.

Going Forward · 12-07-2016 12:30PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

I don't know why people keep putting quote marks around the word probe. Gemma O'Doherty did it on Twitter, earlier. Quite strange.

The case was never closed. Machinations is a singular word to use as well.

It's quite simple. The cold case unit review the original case ab initio. With fresh eyes and making no assumptions (that means not accepting that someone is a suspect. They follow the evidence.)
Then they will make recommendations to the Commissioner who will act on them. That's why it's called a review.

I've since edited that post.

I'm wondering why are they having a look (I'm not using the word probe now) at the case instead of immediately investigating the allegations?

It looks like there's little appetite being shown by the "police" to do some actual policework.

And that was the problem all along in my opinion.

If the claims in the documentary are the cause of this renewed interest, which seems to be the case, why the hell hasn't anyone been brought in for questioning, about these claims????

Why does the Commissioner need to act on it?

They're not questions directed at you personally, but open questions.

oranbhoy67 · 12-07-2016 12:58PM

I'm very suspicious of the timing of this "cold case team" probe story.

I have quote marks around the terms "cold case team" as we were forever being told that this case wouldn't be closed until the truth was found

Also how does this supposed Cold case team work ? from what I'm told all they do is take files, read over them and then hand them back to Ballyshanon gardai .. I'd love to be corrected.

I think it is also very suspicious timing maybe designed to take away from the fact that the citizens of Ballyshannon and indeed Donegal are planning a protest march to Ballyshannon Gardai Sation on Saturday

jonski · 12-07-2016 01:04PM

Jesus , when did I become so cynical ? .... the cold case unit are going to investigate it , it will take about six months and then they will report back to the garda commissioner ...... and by that time hopefully the interest will have died down .

Going Forward · 12-07-2016 01:23PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

I'm very suspicious of the timing of this "cold case team" probe story.

I wouldn't be at all suspicious of the timing.......

The timing is obviously as a result of the allegations made in the documentary.

I'd be more suspicious of the Gardai trying to placate anyone who has concerns about their alleged actions or inaction by announcing that they're going to have a look at their alleged actions or inaction.

And then hand in a report to the Garda Commissioner to read.

brooke 2 · 12-07-2016 02:25PM

Sean Moncrieff on Newstalk talking about the case now. Speaking to ex-garda Alan Bailey?, former head of the cold case unit, about cold cases. Accusations of political interference would be investigated. Passage of time should not be seen as a bar to the investigation. Investigation will take as long as it takes, then passed onto the Commissioner. Kind of passed over the issue that the suspect may be quite close to home, with a 'that is also being looked into'.

Fair dues to Sean for dealing with it. Lots of comments into the programme.

Judge Trudy · 12-07-2016 02:38PM

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If it's allowed, could someone pm these suspects names. I'm so curious.

Could someone PM me too please. I'm living in the same area now and I have a young daughter. I would hate to think I'm living in the midst of such a horrible person who was capable of the murder of such an angelic little girl. Reading this thread has made me very vigilant of letting my own child out of my sight.

oranbhoy67 · 12-07-2016 02:40PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

I don't know why people keep putting quote marks around the word probe. Gemma O'Doherty did it on Twitter, earlier. Quite strange.

The case was never closed. Machinations is a singular word to use as well.

It's quite simple. The cold case unit review the original case ab initio. With fresh eyes and making no assumptions (that means not accepting that someone is a suspect. They follow the evidence.)
Then they will make recommendations to the Commissioner who will act on them. That's why it's called a review.

Michael what exact powers does this cold case team have ??

And will your paper be covering the march for Justice on Saturday and making the public aware that it is happening ?

brooke 2 · 12-07-2016 02:46PM

stuar wrote: »

Finally this case may be getting somewhere, the pressure is mounting, threats of journalists being sued by FF.........to be continued.

All evidence in case of disappearance of Mary Boyle (6) to be re-examined
A fresh investigation into the disappearance of six-year-old Mary Boyle will be launched with all evidence and suspects to be re-examined.

The Irish Daily Star reports that senior gardai have confirmed that the cold case unit of the gardai is launching a new investigation into the mystery.
Detective Superintendent Walter O’Sullivan said the investigation will be launched in the next few weeks and will last up to six months.

“The first thing that will happen is that the team will go to Donegal (where Mary disappeared) to get a feel for the area,” a source told newspaper.
The source also revealed that the detectives would draw up a list of all serving and retired gardai that investigated Mary’s disappearance in 1977.

The source said that the new cold case team would have no pre-conceived ideas of who was or wasn’t a suspect and that all evidence would be followed.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/all-evidence-in-case-of-disappearance-of-mary-boyle-6-to-be-reexamined-34876265.html

Cold case gardai launch fresh probe into disappearance of six-year-old Mary Boyle
Officers are revisiting the case with a new team, days after an investigative documentary was released about the child who vanished.
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/cold-case-gardai-launch-fresh-8402231

Had not seen these articles. Guess that is why the Mary Boyle case was being discussed on Sean Moncrieff today. This ex-garda head of the cold case unit seems to be wheeled out a lot to the media lately. He had a lot to say about the Philip Cairns case a short while ago.

oranbhoy67 · 12-07-2016 02:49PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

Sean Moncrieff on Newstalk talking about the case now. Speaking to ex-garda Alan Bailey?, former head of the cold case unit, about cold cases. Accusations of political interference would be investigated. Passage of time should not be seen as a bar to the investigation. Investigation will take as long as it takes, then passed onto the Commissioner. Kind of passed over the issue that the suspect may be quite close to home, with a 'that is also being looked into'.

Fair dues to Sean for dealing with it. Lots of comments into the programme.

him and many others have been getting asked to chat about recent developments for months , he called supporters of the campaign for justice fr Mary a "mob of fúckwit trolls" last week on twitter"

wont hold it against him though just glad hes finally talking about it

Michael O Toole · 12-07-2016 02:54PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Michael what exact powers does this cold case team have ??

And will your paper be covering the march for Justice on Saturday and making the public aware that it is happening ?

1: It has the same powers as all other gardai. What it does it reviews the case and then, effectively, sends it back to the investigators with recommendations. So it's a review, not an investigation per se.

2: Am writing sometjing up on the march as we speak. Please don't fall for that bollox about the "mainstream media" ignoring the case. We get stories when we can.

brooke 2 · 12-07-2016 02:55PM

Going Forward wrote: »

I'm not inspired by news of a Garda "probe" into a case alleging failures of the Gardai, the findings of which will be given to the Garda Commisioner?

Was the case actually closed?

Why these further machinations about investigating it?

What happens if any who belive they are suspects decide to flee the country on hearing this news?

Presumably they have their passports and however unlikely the chance of them taking flight might seem, they are free to do as they please.

Would such a "probe" in whats supposed to be an active case be announced in other circumstances, drugs cases, gangland cases?

It smells.

I agree with you. This is only a cynical PR exercise, IMO. Mary Boyle's sister has had
doors closed on her by the people who were
in a position to help her. What's more, she was
intimidated by a visit from two Gardai to her home in Offaly. All the soundings emanating from the cold case unit now remind me of the 'efforts' made in the Fr. Niall Molloy case, which came to nothing. Don't expect much this time either.

oranbhoy67 · 12-07-2016 02:59PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

1: It has the same powers as all other gardai. What it does it reviews the case and then, effectively, sends it back to the investigators with recommendations. So it's a review, not an investigation per se.

2: Am writing sometjing up on the march as we speak. Please don't fall for that bollox about the "mainstream media" ignoring the case. We get stories when we can.

I did fall for that in the beginning, i dont believe it anymore with the Exception of RTE whos silence is deafening

the second part of that second quote. Please dont "get stories when you can"

-get out there and hunt them down yourself,Ill speak to anyone ..Im very grateful for todays front page from yourself and your paper, I think its fluff from the gardai but im glad you ran with it and glad of any publicity as high profile as this!

brooke 2 · 12-07-2016 03:01PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

I don't know why people keep putting quote marks around the word probe. Gemma O'Doherty did it on Twitter, earlier. Quite strange.

The case was never closed. Machinations is a singular word to use as well.

It's quite simple. The cold case unit review the original case ab initio. With fresh eyes and making no assumptions (that means not accepting that someone is a suspect. They follow the evidence.)
Then they will make recommendations to the Commissioner who will act on them. That's why it's called a review.

Perhaps because we saw how the 'probe' into
the Fr. Niall Molloy case turned out. Can't blame people for being sceptical. This 'probe' bears all
the signs of being a cynical PR exercise.

brooke 2 · 12-07-2016 03:03PM

jonski wrote: »

Jesus , when did I become so cynical ? .... the cold case unit are going to investigate it , it will take about six months and then they will report back to the garda commissioner ...... and by that time hopefully the interest will have died down .

Bang on!!!!

Michael O Toole · 12-07-2016 03:05PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

Bang on!!!!

What do you want them to do? Prosecute the fella because some journalist says so? Come on.

brooke 2 · 12-07-2016 03:08PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

him and many others have been getting asked to chat about recent developments for months , he called supporters of the campaign for justice fr Mary a "mob of fúckwit trolls" last week on twitter"

wont hold it against him though just glad hes finally talking about it

Wow! Am not on twitter - had not heard of that comment!

Just wondering if any other radio programme mentioned the case?

Going Forward · 12-07-2016 03:14PM

Haven't we been here before?

It's all a bit like part of what was criticised in the original case, isn't it?

Members of the public being let into the investigation in the incident room 39 years ago.

Presumably the criticism was because it raised the risk of denying the Gardai a proper chance to swoop and afforded any suspects an opportunity to be one step ahead, via being directly or indirectly made aware of the direction of investigation.

brooke 2 · 12-07-2016 03:19PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

What do you want them to do? Prosecute the fella because some journalist says so? Come on.

Perhaps get the original investigating Gardai and the suspect into the same room for an interview.
Off the wall, I know. That could never happen.
The truth may come out! And, unfortunately, it
seems, even Mary's mother does not seem to want that. Wonder why that might be? Would your investigative antennae tend to lead you in any particular direction??

Ted111 · 12-07-2016 03:21PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

What do you want them to do?

I'd like to see an external, independent investigation of the garda involvement in the case. I think it's more than warranted and in the interests of the integrity of our criminal justice system.

Also there should be an attempt even at this late stage to apprehend the killer and discover what happened. Difficult even unlikely objective, but the attempt should be made.

A final point is an issue hanging over the cold case unit - a former member reportedly was subject to harassment. Appears to be in connection with the Fr Molloy case. Which bears a common characteristic with this one.
newspaper
molloy
link

Ipso · 12-07-2016 03:23PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

What do you want them to do? Prosecute the fella because some journalist says so? Come on.

Because lots of people on the twitter say so, and all complicated issues can be explained in 140 characters.
Seriously though, as much as the guards make a mess, serious investigations shouldn't happen because all of a sudden everyone has a twitter account.
I have a feeling this case will unravel, then hopefully the Niall Molloy case.

oranbhoy67 · 12-07-2016 03:24PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

What do you want them to do? Prosecute the fella because some journalist says so? Come on.

are you forgetting about the 2 ex gardai & their 28 page report to the Gardai on their thoughts on the case?? a lot of which wasn't revealed in the documentary ..
this is a lot more than one Journalist, this is family members of the suspect himself, the2 surviving ex-lead gards on the case and Margo- a close friend of more than one person very close to the case who are related to the suspect and have all told her at some point that they believed it is him

Going Forward · 12-07-2016 03:24PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

What do you want them to do? Prosecute the fella because some journalist says so? Come on.

How about rewinding back from using the word "prosecute" there.

No one can be "prosecuted" unless they're investigated.

Has anyone been questioned as a result of the documentary, "no" would appear to be the answer.

And you need to be asking why.

You are in a position to do so.

The are legitimate questions.

Will you report that the announcement of the probe was met with derision from some quarters, who told you that they believe it is a Garda PR exercise?

stuar · 12-07-2016 03:27PM

RTE finally reporting the Mary Boyle cold case review, not a mention of any political interference, really watered down article.

Garda cold case unit to review Mary Boyle disappearance
If anything new is uncovered or warrants further investigation it will be followed up.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0712/801934-mary-boyle/

Michael O Toole · 12-07-2016 03:32PM

Going Forward wrote: »

How about rewinding back from using the word "prosecute" there.

No one can be "prosecuted" unless they're investigated.

Has anyone been questioned as a result of the documentary, "no" would appear to be the answer.

And you need to be asking why.

You are in a position to do so.

The are legitimate questions.

Will you report that the announcement of the probe was met with derision from some quarters, who told you that they believe it is a Garda PR exercise?

Tell you what, you give me your real name and I'll quote you.

Going Forward · 12-07-2016 03:41PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

Tell you what, you give me your real name and I'll quote you.

That's a glib response.

Apart from it being against rules of challenging one's anonymity here, I could actually give you any name under the sun.

But I'm not going to. And I think it's below the belt.

What's not below the belt is asking if a journalist will report the reaction on social media.

You can just say "no" after all.

oranbhoy67 · 12-07-2016 03:42PM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

Tell you what, you give me your real name and I'll quote you.

I know you didn't ask me but my real name -as you know- is *********, first cousin of Mary on Marys Fathers side , you can quote me in saying I have absolutely no faith in the Justice system in this country anymore and I believe the timing of this story is a cynical exercise designed to undermine both our campaign for justice and the march organised by ordinary Donegal citizens to take place on Saturday.. and what I want is the Garda to act now on Information they already have. Send the cold case team in right away to take over completely from what I believe are local corrupt gardai & then 6 hours of reading all the details available in this case should be long enough to arrest this "man" not 6 months.

jenny smith · 12-07-2016 04:27PM

Going Forward wrote: »

That's a glib response.

Apart from it being against rules of challenging one's anonymity here, I could actually give you any name under the sun.

But I'm not going to. And I think it's below the belt.

What's not below the belt is asking if a journalist will report the reaction on social media.

You can just say "no" after all.

what rule?

Muahahaha · 12-07-2016 04:28PM

Must say Im very cynical about the timing of this review. On one hand I think it shows that Gemmas documentary has had an effect and she is to be commended on that. But on the other hand I think this is just designed to put water on the fire and buy senior Gardai management time in the hope it will die down. My other problem is a lack of confidence in Noirin OSullivan- her recent attacks on Maurice McCabe in the OHiggins investigation showed her to be a Commissioner who says one thing in public and then does the complete opposite in private.

Finally where is GSOC in all this? Is there an open investigation there and how is it progressing?

Michael O Toole · 12-07-2016 04:29PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Must say Im very cynical about the timing of this review. On one hand I think it shows that Gemmas documentary has had an effect and she is to be commended on that. But on the other hand I think this is just designed to put water on the fire and buy senior Gardai management time in the hope it will die down. My other problem is a lack of confidence in Noirin OSullivan- her recent attacks on Maurice McCabe in the OHiggins investigation showed her to be a Commissioner who says one thing in public and then does the complete opposite in private.

Finally where is GSOC in all this? Is there an open investigation there and how is it progressing?

Garda mangement had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the story. The only thing they did was confirm it when I put it to them. It wasn't a leak. I had been working on it for a week.

Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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