Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

SafeSurfer · 10-07-2016 09:30AM

stuar wrote: »

https://www.fiannafail.ie/contact-us/

Any of the 1,000's of lookers can contact FF for justice and drop the cover-up.

To be honest I think the whole "political" cover up is being overdone. A very junior politician would not have the ability to demand an end to an investigation through one phone call.
I feel it is unsettling to see Lynn Boylan championing the case of a disappeared child, holding up her picture in the European parliament. Has she or any member of her party championed the cases of the other disappeared on this island? Some of whom are believed by many to have been disappeared on the orders of her party leader? It smacks to me of shameless hypocrisy and political oppourtunism.

Going Forward · 10-07-2016 09:50AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

To be honest I think the whole "political" cover up is being overdone. A very junior politician would not have the ability to demand an end to an investigation through one phone call.
I feel it is unsettling to see Lynn Boylan championing the case of a disappeared child, holding up her picture in the European parliament. Has she or any member of her party championed the cases of the other disappeared on this island? Some of whom are believed by many to have been disappeared on the orders of her party leader? It smacks to me of shameless hypocrisy and political oppourtunism.

Do you believe the account of events given by the last person to see her alive?

NIMAN · 10-07-2016 09:54AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

To be honest I think the whole "political" cover up is being overdone. A very junior politician would not have the ability to demand an end to an investigation through one phone call.
I feel it is unsettling to see Lynn Boylan championing the case of a disappeared child, holding up her picture in the European parliament. Has she or any member of her party championed the cases of the other disappeared on this island? Some of whom are believed by many to have been disappeared on the orders of her party leader? It smacks to me of shameless hypocrisy and political oppourtunism.

Well it seems to have happened.

The person who was the last to see Mary alive was never formally questioned. This is so against the grain for missing people investigations, I would say you will struggle to ever find a similar example anywhere in the world.

fryup · 10-07-2016 10:01AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

To be honest I think the whole "political" cover up is being overdone. A very junior politician would not have the ability to demand an end to an investigation through one phone call.

i find that hard to fathom myself, unless that politician comes from a very powerful family in that part of the world?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I feel it is unsettling to see Lynn Boylan championing the case of a disappeared child, holding up her picture in the European parliament. Has she or any member of her party championed the cases of the other disappeared on this island? Some of whom are believed by many to have been disappeared on the orders of her party leader? It smacks to me of shameless hypocrisy and political oppourtunism.

x 100 agree, sickening hypocrisy

cosanostra · 10-07-2016 10:34AM

It became very clear watching the Documentary that it was extremely unlikely that any outsider was involved in taking Mary.

Someone like Robert Black who has being suggested as the perpetrator would need to have known there was children in that remote location and that one of them would seperate away from sight of anyone and manage to take her without anyone seeing him or his van in the area in the first place.

Another suggestion is that Mary wandered off towards a busier rd and was taken but I can't get around the point that a 6yr old would find it very difficult to navigate the stone boundary walls and bogland all without losing a wellie (which were a size too big) in the bog or the ribbon in her hair.

K-9 · 10-07-2016 10:37AM

fryup wrote: »

i find that hard to fathom myself, unless that politician comes from a very powerful family in that part of the world?

I'd be thinking business interests would have been significant, possibly appointments to state boards, that type of thing.

Going Forward · 10-07-2016 10:38AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Well it seems to have happened.

The person who was the last to see Mary alive was never formally questioned. This is so against the grain for missing people investigations, I would say you will struggle to ever find a similar example anywhere in the world.

This is what the investigators were told by the last person who is believed to have seen her:

"She was walking behind me alright, that's all I know".

And it was accepted as an explanation for almost 40 years.

That she disappeared, silently, into thin air and some malarkey about a ladder.

Johnboy1951 · 10-07-2016 11:08AM

Were all or some of the family members, who were present the night before, questioned under caution?

Missymoohaa · 10-07-2016 11:13AM

Michael O Toole wrote: »

If you're asking me what the consensus is, it's quite clear that she was murdered and the person who is the reputed suspect has been known for quite some time.
But, and this is what I was trying to tell you on Twitter and it may be unpalatable, most reporters would be of the belief that until her body is found or other physical evidence is recovered, it's a missing person's case.
That doesn't mean I don't believe she was murdered. I don't. I have no doubt about that. But there is a difference between knowing something and proving it. By the same token, I have no doubt in my mind what happened Madeleine McCann, but I can't say it.

Mick I've long held you in high regard for your reporting, your tweets on the Graham Dwyer case were a must follow for me on the case. You pull no punches and that's for sure. I and many others have been so saddened by this case and that of Fr. Niall Molloy. Something stinks to high heaven in the state of Ireland and somebody in main stream media needs to don the armour and investigate this properly, it needs to be on everyone's lips and every platform and if it topples a political party or two then so be it. A child is missing presumed murdered, there are very serious allegations of political interference by members of An Garda who investigated the case. Yet Enda Kenny and Frances Fitzgerald seem fit to brush it under the carpet. My first question would be Why?

This combined with the Fr Niall case could be potentially a defining moment in Irish political history, I would urge you and your esteemed colleagues to act now. I have being going to bed every night lately very sad and very frustrated by this case.

Dolbert · 10-07-2016 11:24AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

To be honest I think the whole "political" cover up is being overdone. A very junior politician would not have the ability to demand an end to an investigation through one phone call.

I agree that this alone wouldn't have been enough, it doesn't make sense. If a politician and say, a senior garda felt it in their best interests to keep something quiet however, it tells a different story. There has to be more at play here than just these two people.

NIMAN · 10-07-2016 11:26AM

Dolbert wrote: »

I agree that this alone wouldn't have been enough, it doesn't make sense. If a politician and say, a senior garda felt it in their best interests to keep something quiet however, it tells a different story.

But even if there was a local councillor and a senior Guard in the area who didn't want an investigation, surely there are a lot of people more senior to this in the State who would have been asking why an investigation wasn't progressing?

Going Forward · 10-07-2016 12:00PM

Missymoohaa wrote: »

Mick I've long held you in high regard for your reporting, your tweets on the Graham Dwyer case were a must follow for me on the case. You pull no punches and that's for sure. I and many others have been so saddened by this case and that of Fr. Niall Molloy. Something stinks to high heaven in the state of Ireland and somebody in main stream media needs to don the armour and investigate this properly, it needs to be on everyone's lips and every platform and if it topples a political party or two then so be it. A child is missing presumed murdered, there are very serious allegations of political interference by members of An Garda who investigated the case. Yet Enda Kenny and Frances Fitzgerald seem fit to brush it under the carpet. My first question would be Why?

This combined with the Fr Niall case could be potentially a defining moment in Irish political history, I would urge you and your esteemed colleagues to act now. I have being going to bed every night lately very sad and very frustrated by this case.

You're wasting your time.

He's gone from the thread.

He appeared to explain how he "called out" another journalist for claiming Mary had been murdered and then said he'd no doubt himself that she'd been murdered.

He's gone silent after being asked if he swallowed the account given by Mary's uncle.

About something to do with a ladder.

That the cops lapped up.

Except two of them who claim they were asked to lay off by their superiors.

We could leave any allegations about political interference to one side for a moment and just consider what they claim.

They were asked to go easy.

In the absence of any legitimate explanation of what happened to the girl, they claim they were told to accept what they were told.

And then consider the allegation of political interference.

And the Minister for Justice has washed her hands of it and put the ball back into the local coroner's court advising that the decision to hold an inquest is entirely a local issue at the discretion of the local coroner.

But local coroner doesn't want to upset someone.

The girl's mother. Or the mother's brother.

I can't remember.

Maybe journalists might start asking a few difficult questions and calling out others involved in this case instead of being content to explain how they "called out" a journalist for saying she'd been murdered.

Questions need to be asked about the handling of this case, and as you rightly point out, the Molloy case.

Are our journalists up to the job?

What do you think?

SafeSurfer · 10-07-2016 12:07PM

NIMAN wrote: »

But even if there was a local councillor and a senior Guard in the area who didn't want an investigation, surely there are a lot of people more senior to this in the State who would have been asking why an investigation wasn't progressing?

That is something that sticks out for me also. There are 140 superintendents in the Gardai. Do all of these, acting alone have the power to direct investigations without review by chief superintendents or assistant commissioners? Could any combination of councillor and superintendent conspire to stymie an investigation anywhere in the country? I find it very hard to believe. I find it hard to believe that a politician who could not prevent his own conviction for a road traffic offence could prevent a murder Inquiry in the same Garda district.

Going Forward · 10-07-2016 01:00PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

That is something that sticks out for me also. There are 140 superintendents in the Gardai. Do all of these, acting alone have the power to direct investigations without review by chief superintendents or assistant commissioners? Could any combination of councillor and superintendent conspire to stymie an investigation anywhere in the country? I find it very hard to believe. I find it hard to believe that a politician who could not prevent his own conviction for a road traffic offence could prevent a murder Inquiry in the same Garda district.

If you're right, and you may be, there was still no proper investigation beyond asking someone what happened to the child that was supposedly walking with them.

rightyabe · 10-07-2016 01:03PM

I see a certain FF councillor has deleted their Facebook account after somebody asked them about the case..

Going Forward · 10-07-2016 01:17PM

NIMAN wrote: »

But even if there was a local councillor and a senior Guard in the area who didn't want an investigation, surely there are a lot of people more senior to this in the State who would have been asking why an investigation wasn't progressing?

Not necessarily. That was 1977.

Years after the gardai were still able to decide what they wanted to investigate and what they didn't.

Look at the Ferns report.

If they didn't want to "actively" investigate something there was no one going to make them.

Then you have the Morris Tribunal.

For Donegal.

LynnGrace · 10-07-2016 01:29PM

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/rot-from-the-top-that-ripped-the-heart-out-of-the-gardai-26223114.html

I think this is worth a read also, to give context to the general era in which little Mary Boyle disappeared.
It seems that political interference was quite usual, in Garda matters.

Michael O Toole · 10-07-2016 01:54PM

Going Forward wrote: »

You're wasting your time.

He's gone from the thread.

He appeared to explain how he "called out" another journalist for claiming Mary had been murdered and then said he'd no doubt himself that she'd been murdered.

He's gone silent after being asked if he swallowed the account given by Mary's uncle.

About something to do with a ladder.

That the cops lapped up.

Except two of them who claim they were asked to lay off by their superiors.

We could leave any allegations about political interference to one side for a moment and just consider what they claim.

They were asked to go easy.

In the absence of any legitimate explanation of what happened to the girl, they claim they were told to accept what they were told.

And then consider the allegation of political interference.

And the Minister for Justice has washed her hands of it and put the ball back into the local coroner's court advising that the decision to hold an inquest is entirely a local issue at the discretion of the local coroner.

But local coroner doesn't want to upset someone.

The girl's mother. Or the mother's brother.

I can't remember.

Maybe journalists might start asking a few difficult questions and calling out others involved in this case instead of being content to explain how they "called out" a journalist for saying she'd been murdered.

Questions need to be asked about the handling of this case, and as you rightly point out, the Molloy case.

Are our journalists up to the job?

What do you think?

Eh, I went to bed. **** me, that was some rant.

I didn't answer because I don't think it's appropriate. And I thought it was a leading question.
You can defame who you want. I won't.

brooke 2 · 10-07-2016 02:43PM

K-9 wrote: »

I'd be thinking business interests would have been significant, possibly appointments to state boards, that type of thing.

I would also be inclined to think that certain influential member/s of the Gardaí
might have had been involved in 'grace and favour activities'.
It's not as though these kind of things don't happen.

brooke 2 · 10-07-2016 02:45PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Were all or some of the family members, who were present the night before, questioned under caution?

The 'instruction' from the politician, allegedly, was that no member of the girl's
family was to be questioned.

brooke 2 · 10-07-2016 02:49PM

Dolbert wrote: »

I agree that this alone wouldn't have been enough, it doesn't make sense. If a politician and say, a senior garda felt it in their best interests to keep something quiet however, it tells a different story. There has to be more at play here than just these two people.

The relationship between the politician and the senior garda is key. Who knows what nest of vipers may have been unleashed if the case had been allowed to proceed?

stuar · 10-07-2016 03:04PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

To be honest I think the whole "political" cover up is being overdone. A very junior politician would not have the ability to demand an end to an investigation through one phone call.

Well he did, and while he is a junior politician he's also a multi-millionaire, and even if he wasn't a FF councillor I believe he would still have great influence with Ireland's elite. His businesses span Ireland, employ 15,000+ people.

While all the media outlets are holding back from any meaningful investigative journalism surrounding Mary Boyle, a drug pusher (alcohol) relative of said junior politician gets a photo-op in a national newspaper for buying a laptop for a victim of theft with the local force, all smiles.

stuar · 10-07-2016 03:12PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

I would also be inclined to think that certain influential member/s of the Gardaí
might have had their wages supplemented by in question.
It's not as though these kind of things don't happen.

Maybe edit that?;)

brooke 2 · 10-07-2016 03:14PM

LynnGrace wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/rot-from-the-top-that-ripped-the-heart-out-of-the-gardai-26223114.html

I think this is worth a read also, to give context to the general era in which little Mary Boyle disappeared.
It seems that political interference was quite usual, in Garda matters.

That was written in 2004! Fair dues to Garda Tully, one of the good ones. A precursor to Sgt. Maurice McCabe.

'Squaring' and 'grace and favour' - this article reveals a lot of the rot. It might explain, in part, what went on in
the Mary Boyle case. It has been mentioned that the suspect is an ordinary member of FF. An extreme case of
'squaring', perhaps?

LynnGrace · 10-07-2016 03:43PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

That was written in 2004! Fair dues to Garda Tully, one of the good ones. A precursor to Sgt. Maurice McCabe.

'Squaring' and 'grace and favour' - this article reveals a lot of the rot. It might explain, in part, what went on in
the Mary Boyle case. It has been mentioned that the suspect is an ordinary member of FF. An extreme case of
'squaring', perhaps?

Yes, it was written in 2004. I remembered reading it at that time, and thought it was very interesting.

While it refers mostly to the early eighties, I thought it was worth linking here to give some context to the happenings in the general era of when little Mary Boyle disappeared.

SafeSurfer · 10-07-2016 03:44PM

stuar wrote: »

Well he did, and while he is a junior politician he's also a multi-millionaire, and even if he wasn't a FF councillor I believe he would still have great influence with Ireland's elite. His businesses span Ireland, employ 15,000+ people.

While all the media outlets are holding back from any meaningful investigative journalism surrounding Mary Boyle, a drug pusher (alcohol) relative of said junior politician gets a photo-op in a national newspaper for buying a laptop for a victim of theft with the local force, all smiles.

It doesn't do much for your posts credibility when you refer to public and as drug pushers. Relatives of criminals are not responsible for crimes. Relatives of those accused of crimes even less so.

NIMAN · 10-07-2016 03:57PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Not necessarily. That was 1977.

Years after the gardai were still able to decide what they wanted to investigate and what they didn't.

Look at the Ferns report.

If they didn't want to "actively" investigate something there was no one going to make them.

Then you have the Morris Tribunal.

For Donegal.

Fair enough, but its no longer 1977.

We should have moved on and this case is unsolved and open and can still be investigated, especially as there seems to be a lot of speculation that the killer is still walking around unquestioned.

Just because its 40 years ago, doesn't mean we should forget about this little girl.
Jean McConville was murdered over 44 years ago and someone looks like they are going to stand trial
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/07/jean-mcconville-murder-republican-ivor-bell-to-stand-trial-over/

brooke 2 · 10-07-2016 04:10PM

LynnGrace wrote: »

Yes, it was written in 2004. I remembered reading it at that time, and thought it was very interesting.

While it refers mostly to the early eighties, I thought it was worth linking here to give some context to the happenings in the general era of when little Mary Boyle disappeared.

Thank you for posting it. It articulates very well what I had been suspecting
might have been happening in the Mary Boyle case. I had never heard of the
term 'squaring', even though I had often read/heard of cases where it was involved. :mad:

jenny smith · 10-07-2016 04:49PM

stuar wrote: »

Well he did, and while he is a junior politician he's also a multi-millionaire, and even if he wasn't a FF councillor I believe he would still have great influence with Ireland's elite. His businesses span Ireland, employ 15,000+ people.

While all the media outlets are holding back from any meaningful investigative journalism surrounding Mary Boyle, a drug pusher (alcohol) relative of said junior politician gets a photo-op in a national newspaper for buying a laptop for a victim of theft with the local force, all smiles.

It is pretty easy to get the original image of this where you accuse one of drug pushing

NIMAN · 10-07-2016 04:53PM

He is a publican, and the poster obviously considers it a drug. Most don't.

Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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