UFC 200 Event Thread - Cormier v Jones 2

Mellor · 10-07-2016 09:29AM

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

As I understand it, all WWE talent (part-time or full time) will be tested a minimum of 4 times a year. That doesn't include random testing and testing based on reasonable suspicion.

My understanding was that the "random testing" is the 4 times a year, but it's not a max number.
There's a huge difference periodic tests throughout the years. And turning up to a guys house at 6am to piss in a cup.

Something I meant to point out when you said Reigns has been suspended but is appearing in the middle of his ban, not exactly true. They were smart about it, it was a 30 day suspension, the PPV he is scheduled to appear on was at the time 32 days away, so he would be back after his suspension.

The timeline I seen must have been wrong, sorry.
However that's doesn't change the fact that 30 days is a joke.
The fact that the WWE knew he failed and waited until they played out the belt changing hands before they announced it, also undermines the whole thing.

I get that as a publically traded company they have to do something about the steroid culture. But I really think that all they care about is being seen to do something.
Crossfit is the same, they test their athletes at the games. None of them have ever popped. Yet, mid level crossfiters who have entered USA weightlifting Comps have popped by USADA. Bottom line, a company self testing is a start, but it's not infallible.

Or look at it this way, wrestlers were jacked to bits in the attitude era where steroids where rampant. These days, with all the testing, they are just as big.

LeeJM · 10-07-2016 09:36AM

Cormier via Submission

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

As a pointed out earlier, Brock is a real wrestler, as in he competed in the actual sport of wrestling. He just makes a living doing body builders ballet and is juiced off his tits.

Ken Shamrock, Tito Ortiz, Don Fyre, Dan Severn, Tank Abbott, Kazushi Sakuraba, Josh Barnett, Rampage Jackson all been involved in pro wrestling too. Why the Lesnar hate?

Brock is a force of nature. He has over 100 amateur wrestling wins with just 5 loses. Just because he chooses to make money entertaining while also being capable of destroying most of the HW division on his days off from WWE is no reason to be so bitter. Surely if you are such a huge MMA fan you knew Brock was gonna score takedowns and nullify Hunts only threat. Brock after a 5 year absence returned to UFC and dominated a top 8 contender with ease. But of course its all steroids, no way is it just the fact that he no longer has diverticulitis.

I enjoy reading this forum most of the time but the tears over Brock winning, not being tested, WWEs "sham" testing meant I had to say something. I love UFC just as much as most regular posters on here but in a sport where known drug cheats are revered as heroes and held up as the greatest of all time, where known PED takers have permanently damaged other competitors to attempt to single out Brock because he has a link to pro wrestling is absolutely laughable.

A Rogue Hobo · 10-07-2016 09:52AM

Jones via Submission

It's a three strikes and you're out rule. First it's 30 days, next its 90 days and then their contract is terminated if caught a third time. It also covers recreational drugs as well not including weed as far as I know. I agree with you though, I do believe they found out a few days before they announced just so they could organise themselves and put their ducks in a row and I wasn't a fan of that. But let's get one thing straight, the UFC does the exact same thing when it comes to undermining the whole process. We've literally just watched a card where Daniel Cormier had to fight Anderson Silva who is hailed as the greatest of his time if not of all time. The same guy who failed two drug tests for anabolics, who just replaced the guy hailed as the greatest fighter going today who failed a drug test.

Edit: also the guys today are no where near as big as the guys in the attitude era that's just false. Take Kane for example, who was around back then and is still active now, the chap was jacked back then, muscles on top of muscles, now he has very little definition to what he had. Now look at the roster, Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, Finn Balor, Kofi, Owens, Wyatt etc are all tiny and natural looking in comparison. You still have big guys like Big E for example, but he was a powerlifting champion.

LollipopJimmy · 10-07-2016 09:59AM

Disappointed I couldn't stay awake

I was already dozing waching Edgar and Aldo. Aldo certainly made Edgar look very ordinary. Then again I was half asleep for most of it

JoeyJJ · 10-07-2016 10:01AM

Stayed away from here during event not sure how event was perceived, some people really didn't turn up. Frankie was eating straights and jabs Aldo coasting and stealing rounds by turning on last 90 seconds.

Brock fight was what it was he showed he can gameplan a win against a top 10 guy, Hunt didn't let his hands go too tentitive.

Meisha well she was hurt badly and like Conor was subbed after being shuck.

Interesting to see how the numbers stack up Dana still spitting bullets about Jones I would imagine. Not a great event.

DM_7 · 10-07-2016 10:04AM

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah none of that is true.

The FDA have nothing to do with drug testing.
If you are taking about USADA, then the WWE could contract them to test. The same way UFC, IBJJF etc contract USADA (non Olympic sports).

The use a third party, but not an independent 3rd party. They caught Roman Reigns last month, told the WWE, who scripted him to lose the belt before they announced his 30 day ban. But they have him back on the PPV before the 30 days are up.

The WWE test the same way that crossfit text. They have to be seen to do something. Christ the Tour De France is tested.
People saying Brock wasn't be on steroids because WWE is tested are clueless. Also saying "he has always looked that way" is nonsense too.

The Reigns ban is over before their next PPV, just.

Your right to queston the WWE's testing, they have a flimsy testing policy, it's called wellness and does not totally ban performance enhancers.

It only covers regular in ring competitors and might not even apply to Brock when he is missing for months on end. In addition if they have a valid prescription WWE will allow a lot to be taken.

For example, any guy who gets an injury will come back huge as his doctor can prescribe assistance to recover form the injury.

To be fair to Brock he doesn't have many of the tell tale signs that can be seen in the other wrestlers. A quick view of how vascular Triple H or John Cena looks and you will see signs of a guy who avails of the prescriptions. Brock doesn't really have that look imo.

You can also hear the voice changes and see head shape changes on guys like Kane or Kurt Angle to recognise Growth Hormones. Do we recognise any of those signs with Brock?

Mellor · 10-07-2016 10:56AM

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

I agree with you though, I do believe they found out a few days before they announced just so they could organise themselves and put their ducks in a row and I wasn't a fan of that.

I wouldn't be surprised is the failure failure was kayfabe to turn him heel.
I know nothing of Reigns and WWE current storylines, but I get how the game is played.

But let's get one thing straight, the UFC does the exact same thing when it comes to undermining the whole process. We've literally just watched a card where Daniel Cormier had to fight Anderson Silva who is hailed as the greatest of his time if not of all time. The same guy who failed two drug tests for anabolics, who just replaced the guy hailed as the greatest fighter going today who failed a drug test.

The difference being Silva served a 12 month ban.

Edit: also the guys today are no where near as big as the guys in the attitude era that's just false. Take Kane for example, who was around back then and is still active now, the chap was jacked back then, muscles on top of muscles, now he has very little definition to what he had. Now look at the roster, Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, Finn Balor, Kofi, Owens, Wyatt etc are all tiny and natural looking in comparison. You still have big guys like Big E for example, but he was a powerlifting champion.

Well Kane is probably 50 now so I'm not surprised he's fading. And I'm sure smaller guys exist, they always have. Dink the clown for example

Maybe I'm not up to speed with the current roster. But I seen Cena in a movie recently, he us massive. He's about the size Arnie was as a bodybuilder.

A Rogue Hobo · 10-07-2016 11:24AM

Jones via Submission

A one year ban but it's all reletive. 30 - 90 days is a much bigger deal when you work 280-300 days a year. A year in fight terms is 3 maybe 4 fights for the average fighter.

I don't think anyone will ever definitely know about Cena until he comes out himself and talks about it. He is absolutely huge and does have a competitive bodybuilding last which would make you think he definitely was on them at some stage. But at the same time he has a freakish level of dedication to his job to the point of being abnormal, his life is staying in good condition, we're talking about a guy who taught himself Mandarin just so he could speak at a press conference in China.

But I definitely would not be remotely shocked if it turned out he was a regular heavy user of steroids that knows how to work the system.

ricero · 10-07-2016 11:25AM

After watching nunez destroy taite last night i would love to see holly holm fight her for the belt. It would be a stand up war

John_D80 · 10-07-2016 11:28AM

Jones via KO/TKO

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

A one year ban but it's all reletive. 30 - 90 days is a much bigger deal when you work 280-300 days a year. A year in fight terms is 3 maybe 4 fights for the average fighter.

I would say you have that backwards mate. Banning an MMA fighter for 2 years or 3-4 fights is a far ''bigger deal'' than a 30-90 day ban for a WWE person considering they are earning nothing the entire time.

newballsplease · 10-07-2016 11:34AM

Disappointed with that event.
Tate and nunes as the main event was a mistake. Think Aldo and Edgar should've been up there.

gordongekko · 10-07-2016 11:38AM

Mellor wrote: »

That's a college pic Id guess. College athletes use steroids.
Wasn't he caught with a load of prohormones when he was in college, before they were illegal.

If they were legal what point are you trying to make? If creatine is banned in the future does that make every rugby player playing now a cheat?

John_D80 · 10-07-2016 11:44AM

Jones via KO/TKO

gordongekko wrote: »

If they were legal what point are you trying to make? If creatine is banned in the future does that make every rugby player playing now a cheat?

If only creatine was the extent of the problem in professional rugby.

theteal · 10-07-2016 11:52AM

Just watched it there. Poor night of fights. Glad I dozed off when I did. Aldo made Frankie look very ordinary, will look forward to the rematch with yer man.

I'm surprised a lot more isn't being made about the illegal knee. That was the start of Tates downfall.

finglashoop · 10-07-2016 11:55AM

Watched the fight pass prelims and went to bed. Watching pre lims now. Sage done well when in the arm bar. Tjs movement is very good although assuncao looked good after such a long lay off. Johnny hendricks is a shadow of his former self. Usada has hit him hard.

Mellor · 10-07-2016 12:08PM

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

A one year ban but it's all reletive. 30 - 90 days is a much bigger deal when you work 280-300 days a year. A year in fight terms is 3 maybe 4 fights for the average fighter.

You can't be serious?
If you are banned for a year you dont get paid for a year. Banned for a month, you do t get paid for a month. Number of appearances is irrelevant.

But at the same time he has a freakish level of dedication to his job to the point of being abnormal, his life is staying in good condition,

Arnie was genetically gifted, insanely dedicated too, needed steroids to reach his peak.

Even with steroids, You still need to put the insane work in. I've no doubt Cena's dedicated, but all the dedication can't surpass natural limits.

http://nattyornot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/john-cena-bodybuilding-anabolic-steroids.jpg

From Natty or not

A Rogue Hobo · 10-07-2016 12:13PM

Jones via Submission

John_D80 wrote:

I would say you have that backwards mate. Banning an MMA fighter for 2 years or 3-4 fights is a far ''bigger deal'' than a 30-90 day ban for a WWE person considering they are earning nothing the entire time.

Fair point! My point being though, don't do the crime of you can't do the time.

callaway92 · 10-07-2016 12:25PM

Cormier via Submission

It's some spectacle watching Brock fight - Don't get jitters for any other fights close to what I get for his. It's an unbelievable achievement for him to not only win, but in reality, pretty comfortably. He wasn't troubled once.

Genuinely did not give a shít about the main event.

Mellor · 10-07-2016 12:25PM

https://streamable.com/45lg

Lol I've never seen happy Brock before

John_D80 · 10-07-2016 12:28PM

Jones via KO/TKO

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

Fair point! My point being though, don't do the crime of you can't do the time.

Thing is though, the time in the case of a WWE guy is worth the risk for a first or second offence.

clever user name · 10-07-2016 12:36PM

Cain throwing spinning hook kicks (or whatever they're called) made me laugh so hard, I don't know why!

John_D80 · 10-07-2016 12:38PM

Jones via KO/TKO

Without risking a ban by naming names, IMO there are plenty of current/former MMA fighters who have in the past, and/or continue to use PED's and things like hormones and steroids. We all know who they are just by looking at them for the most part. USADA still has a LONG way to go in cleaning out this sport.

There is a level of naivety on display here and among MMA fans & pro wrestling fans in general that is on the same level as that displayed by cycling fans in the 80's & 90's.

Tigger · 10-07-2016 12:39PM

theteal wrote: »

Just watched it there. Poor night of fights. Glad I dozed off when I did. Aldo made Frankie look very ordinary, will look forward to the rematch with yer man.

I'm surprised a lot more isn't being made about the illegal knee. That was the start of Tates downfall.

Did it connect ? I've rewound it a few times
Misha was Done tho that choke wasn't even under her chin

That_Guy · 10-07-2016 12:48PM

I wrote on my Facebook page that UFC 200 made me feel like a kid at Christmas....

My conclusion reads thusly:

So I said yesterday that it felt a bit like Christmas. The buzz and build up to it. Add in the excitement of getting really cool presents and when you asked for a "surprise" you keep thinking that you're going to get a ridiculously amazing present like a remote controlled Batmobile or something....

Then you end up getting some shíte jumper that makes your skin itch because you're allergic to the fabric.

That's what UFC 200 was to me.

Swashbuckler · 10-07-2016 12:56PM

I can't for the life of me understand how people could say that was a disappointing card. All the prelims delivered in one way or another. Spiders fight was a bit meh but even that had a massive moment with the liver kick. Aldo v frankie was very technical and great to watch aldo perform like he did. Tate Nunez was a first round finish as was Cain. The card was excellent.

StringerBell · 10-07-2016 01:08PM

Agree, the card may not have caught fire and given the upheavel that is not a surprise really, but it was a damn good card with some very good fights on it. The prelims were excellent, to see Brock return and dominate after so long out was thrilling in its own way, same with the Aldo/Edgar fight, it was so technical and I was fascinated with how good Jose was, best I have seen him in years. Cormier/Silva was a damp squib of sorts but what else was to be expected? Cain was impressive as hell and if he stays healthy the belt will be his again.

Really enjoyed the card, the crowd at times were idiotic alright.

callaway92 · 10-07-2016 01:08PM

Cormier via Submission

Omackeral wrote: »

Also, look at pics of Brock Lesnar from high school and college. Has always been a massive freak of a guy. Always has been.

Exactly. He has always been big

mdwexford · 10-07-2016 01:11PM

Not sure why people are mad on first round finishes.

I want to see back and forth action.

I was the same, been waiting for this card for months and while it was impossible to live up to the hype I definitely feel underwhelmed looking back.

In 6 months time how many of those fights will you have rewatched because it was awesome. Probably none.

Swashbuckler · 10-07-2016 01:19PM

mdwexford wrote:

In 6 months time how many of those fights will you have rewatched because it was awesome. Probably none.

Not every fight can be a Lawler v Rory though. I'm looking for more than just back and forth. And I definitely got that last night.

johnpatrick81 · 10-07-2016 01:28PM

Out of the prelims and main card you usually get 2, maybe 3 really exciting fights. It's all personal preference, but for me all bar the sage fight were predictable and dull non eventful fair.

Technically the sage fight was dire though. The amount of disappointing performances was shocking. Usually Joe Rogan fake creams himself three or four times a night, he barely got a semi last night.

It was clearly disappointing and underwhelming, I don't know why some people feel the need to defend the indefensible. A quick Google says all the experts agree it was a big letdown.

UFC 200 Event Thread - Cormier v Jones 2

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