TUF 23 Finale: Team Joanna v Team Claudia (Includes TUF 23 Spoilers)

John_D80 · 09-07-2016 6:41am

Gadelha via Decision

Gamebred wrote: »

Every Judge gave the 4th round 10-8,was she even dropped or in any trouble of being finished? hard to know what a 10-8 means exactly.

There doesn't have to be a takedown to be fair. Total domination of a round will score a 10-8 a lot faster than a knock down or even two.

jcd5971 · 09-07-2016 6:42am

martyos121 wrote:

Those last two rounds certainly fit the description. Can't have any arguments about it.

I can see that, I still adamantly give Claudia 1 2 3 tho.

Rnd 4 10-8 not for me but I can see it been given.

Rnd 5 defo 10-8

Gamebred · 09-07-2016 6:43am

Yeah matches the description,maybe its the lack of consistency that causes confusion in giving out 10-8s

jcd5971 · 09-07-2016 6:43am

John_D80 wrote:

There doesn't have to be a takedown to be fair. Total domination of a round will score a 10-8 a lot faster than a knock down or even two.

What about rnd 1 Claudia dropped her and took her down at will. So is that a 10-8?

jcd5971 · 09-07-2016 6:47am

I know this makes absolutely no sense but I kinda feel like Joanna looked absolutely the better fighter but lost the fight at the same time on rounds.

John_D80 · 09-07-2016 6:48am

Gadelha via Decision

jcd5971 wrote: »

What about rnd 1 Claudia dropped her and took her down at will. So is that a 10-8?

What?? Are you trying to say that round 1 was a 10-8?? As I said, knock downs don't guarantee a 10-8. Claudia won it, but it was hardly total domination. Not by a long long way.

jcd5971 · 09-07-2016 6:52am

John_D80 wrote:

What?? Are you trying to say that round 1 was a 10-8?? As I said, knock downs don't guarantee a 10-8. Claudia won it, but it was hardly total domination. Not by a long long way.

No I'm saying the awarding of 10-8 rnds seems a bit all over the place.

Are we saying that a knockdown octagon control and multiple takedowns are not a 10-8
but round 4 is a 10-8 I don't see how, it was very one sided but alot of what landed were fast jabs which never had the fighter in danger.

John_D80 · 09-07-2016 7:00am

Gadelha via Decision

jcd5971 wrote: »

No I'm saying the awarding of 10-8 rnds seems a bit all over the place.

Are we saying that a knockdown octagon control and multiple takedowns are not a 10-8
but round 4 is a 10-8 I don't see how, it was very one sided but alot of what landed were fast jabs which never had the fighter in danger.

Wait a sec now, by multiple in this case I take it you are referring to the 2 (i think) takedowns she scored in the first. Multiple is a bit of a stretch there. And what did she REALLY do with them besides retain dominant position that would ever warrant a 10-8 score??

In 4 and 5 JJ probably out struck her by a ratio of 8:1 with little or no effective offence From Claudia.

raze_them_all_ · 09-07-2016 7:04am

Gamebred wrote: »

Every Judge gave the 4th round 10-8,was she even dropped or in any trouble of being finished? hard to know what a 10-8 means exactly.

Means you got dominated, which she clearly was

jcd5971 · 09-07-2016 7:09am

John_D80 wrote:

Wait a sec now, by multiple in this case I take it you are referring to the 2 (i think) takedowns she scored in the first. Multiple is a bit of a stretch there. And what did she REALLY do with them besides retain dominant position that would ever warrant a 10-8 score??

Was it not 3? Doesn't matter anyway I wasnt really arguing rnd 1 is a 10-8 more what constitutes a 10-8 in general and how it seems to be very vague where it's awarded.

In terms of this fight if your saying Joanna wins it 47-46 with 4+5 being 10-8 it would be hard to argue that.

Personally I had it 47-47 with only rnd 5 10-8 to Joanna.

At first I had no 10-8 rnd and gave it to Claudia 47-46. But that one's hard to argue.

Mellor · 09-07-2016 7:18am

jcd5971 wrote: »

Was it not 3? Doesn't matter anyway I wasnt really arguing rnd 1 is a 10-8 more what constitutes a 10-8 in general and how it seems to be very vague where it's awarded.

It's a round where a fighter dominates. Simple as that, and subjective as that sounds.
No benchmark amount of takedowns equals a 10-8. Although you could score a 10-8 via TDs alone.
Same applies to knockdowns.

In this fight, Claudia was nowhere near domination in rds 1-3.

John_D80 · 09-07-2016 7:25am

Gadelha via Decision

jcd5971 wrote: »

Was it not 3? Doesn't matter anyway I wasnt really arguing rnd 1 is a 10-8 more what constitutes a 10-8 in general and how it seems to be very vague where it's awarded.

In terms of this fight if your saying Joanna wins it 47-46 with 4+5 being 10-8 it would be hard to argue that.

Personally I had it 47-47 with only rnd 5 10-8 to Joanna.

At first I had no 10-8 rnd and gave it to Claudia 47-46. But that one's hard to argue.

I had it 48-46 for JJ or maybe even 48-45.

9-10
9-10
10-9
10-8
10-9 (possibly even 10-8)

Claudia did **** all with her takedowns really. Finally judges are not putting anywhere near the same amount of value on takedowns.

John_D80 · 09-07-2016 7:29am

Gadelha via Decision

Sanchez in the co-main gave a textbook example of how to score 10-8's with grappling. Claudia was nowhere near it.

Mellor · 09-07-2016 7:32am

John_D80 wrote: »

Claudia did **** all with her takedowns really. Finally judges are not putting anywhere near the same amount of value on takedowns.

A lot of Claudia's strikes in rds 1-3 had nothing on them.
If you look at the total strikes JJ had more in every round.

Mellor · 09-07-2016 10:16am

Conor sitting cageside for the fight, looks to be saying something to JJ

And here's the scorecard for the main event. Claudiatakes 1 and 2 and Joanna takes the rest. Looks fair to me.
joanna-jedrzejczyk-claudia-gadelha-tuf-23-finale-scorecard.jpg

joanna-jedrzejczyk-claudia-gadelha-tuf-23-finale-scorecard.jpg

John_D80 · 09-07-2016 10:36am

Gadelha via Decision

As scored by the media.

jimmii · 09-07-2016 10:47am

Would love to hear him explain how that was a draw!

martyos121 · 09-07-2016 10:55am

jimmii wrote: »

Would love to hear him explain how that was a draw!

First two rounds for Claudia, as well as the third. Then a 10-8 for Joanna in the 4th followed by a 10-9 in the 5th. It wouldn't have been the most controversial thing ever if that was the outcome because Joanna would retain her title but the judges 100% got it right.

John_D80 · 09-07-2016 11:00am

Gadelha via Decision

martyos121 wrote: »

First two rounds for Claudia, as well as the third. Then a 10-8 for Joanna in the 4th followed by a 10-9 in the 5th. It wouldn't have been the most controversial thing ever if that was the outcome because Joanna would retain her title but the judges 100% got it right.

When you start considering multiple possible 10-8's anything can happen scores-wise I guess.

Mellor · 09-07-2016 11:09am

jimmii wrote: »

Would love to hear him explain how that was a draw!

Pretty easily tbh.
3 rounds for Claudia and a 10-8 for Joanna

Edit: I disagree with the result but pretty easy to see how somebody arrived there. A poster here had the same scorecard.

Mellor · 09-07-2016 11:13am

John_D80 wrote: »

As scored by the media.

Looks all very standard. Joanna won 3 rounds, a lot of people gave her a 10-8. I think that was clearly the right score. Certainly don't get the supposed controversy people are making out.

Devastator · 09-07-2016 11:15am

Great fight! JJ looked like she could go another 5 rounds :eek:

I gave the 1st 3 rounds to Claudia, she had the TDs but I also thought her striking was better than JJ early on. Yeah JJ threw more but the shots that looked like they hurt went to Claudia, she knocker her on her hole in the first few 2nds and had a good elbow which I thought looked like a knock down aswell. She was countering JJs striking well but ran out of steam. Obviously JJ won the last 2 rounds but both 10-8s?

I'm not sure about that myself. Yeah JJ outstruck Claudia completely but it didn't look like the total domination with near finishes that I'd expect from 10-8rds. I'm not disagreeing with the result, I thought at the end that I wouldn't want to be a judge in it! Just think the 2 10-8s are a bit weird. Close fight, great fight, 2 tough gals

If Claudia had better cardio I think she was winning that. I didn't expect JJ to show any humility in winning but she conducted herself well....whereas Claudia couldn't resist another little bitch at the very end :pac:

Well the first 2 chapters of this story was very good, looking forward to the 3rd now

I fell asleep during the card, missed last pre lim and 1st few fights on main card. Is it worth going back to watch them(not Gray Maynard, his fights aren't usually very exciting). How was the Pearson Brooks fight? Any good?

Mellor · 09-07-2016 11:34am

Devastator wrote: »

Obviously JJ won the last 2 rounds but both 10-8s? I'm not sure about that myself. Yeah JJ outstruck Claudia completely but it didn't look like the total domination with near finishes that I'd expect from 10-8rds.

Only one scorecard had two 10-8s, the 4th.

Something thing I've noticed is that judges are less likely to score another 10-8 after they've already given one. (For people saying the 5th was more deserving of a 10-8)

Also you don't need near finishes fir a 10-8. It helps sure, but not s requirement.
Funny you said "total domination", as that's actually the criteria for a 10-7 round.

Devastator · 09-07-2016 11:40am

Mellor wrote: »

Also you don't need near finishes fir a 10-8. It helps sure, but not s requirement.
Funny you said "total domination", as that's actually the criteria for a 10-7 round.

Thats why I said what "I expect".....in my judging expertise ya know

Im not a big fan of 10-8rds so for me I'd like to see at least 75-80% of the rd being dominated by the fighter with a possible near finish(good knock down from strike or near subbing).

Has there ever been a 10-7rd awarded in UFC? I don't remember any but if 1 fighter is that far ahead I wouldn't really expect it to get to judges

martyos121 · 09-07-2016 11:47am

Devastator wrote: »

Thats why I said what "I expect".....in my judging expertise ya know

Im not a big fan of 10-8rds so for me I'd like to see at least 75-80% of the rd being dominated by the fighter with a possible near finish(good knock down from strike or near subbing).

Has there ever been a 10-7rd awarded in UFC? I don't remember any but if 1 fighter is that far ahead I wouldn't really expect it to get to judges

If Gray Maynard didn't get a 10-7 against Frankie a few years back, they don't exist in the UFC. That's my take on it anyway.

Mellor · 09-07-2016 11:58am

Devastator wrote: »

Im not a big fan of 10-8rds so for me I'd like to see at least 75-80% of the rd being dominated by the fighter with a possible near finish(good knock down from strike or near subbing).

You're not a fan. Surprised at that. Why not?
I'm a huge fan, and we need more imo. The idea that winning a round is always worth 1pt (10-9) no matter what the margin is incredibly flawed for me. A bigger margin deserves a bonus.
Also an imperceivable margin should be 10-10, not just pick a winner at random.

More draws is better than more ****ty split decisions.

Has there ever been a 10-7rd awarded in UFC? I don't remember any but if 1 fighter is that far ahead I wouldn't really expect it to get to judges

There have been, but not many. Texiera v Maldonaldo maybe, did that reach the judges?

Devastator · 09-07-2016 12:04pm

Mellor wrote: »

You're not a fan. Surprised at that. Why not?
I'm a huge fan, and we need more imo. The idea that winning a round is always worth 1pt (10-9) no matter what the margin is incredibly flawed for me. A bigger margin deserves a bonus.
Also an imperceivable margin should be 10-10, not just pick a winner at random.

More draws is better than more ****ty split decisions.

There have been, but not many. Texiera v Maldonaldo maybe, did that reach the judges?

Maybe saying Im not a fan of 10-8s isn't accurate, maybe saying I'm not a fan of the current scoring system would be better. I agree with you about the 10-10s and possible draws. Quite a lot of time its very difficult to see differences in the rounds. Often made more difficult to score if you are betting and have some sort of emotion (then financial

)attachment to the fight. Teixera Maldonaldo was stopped between rds wasn't it? Great fight too

The Juicer · 09-07-2016 12:05pm

What a crap event that was. I almost choked on my toast with boredom. Fingers crossed for tonight, but I wouldn't hold out much hope.

Utter **** from UFC again.

Mellor · 09-07-2016 12:19pm

Devastator wrote: »

Teixera Maldonaldo was stopped between rds wasn't it? Great fight too

Yeah you are right, Doctor stopped it. I remember he only hung on for bell. But it must have been the 2nd round. That was a 10-7 for me as it should have clearly been stopped.

jimmii · 09-07-2016 12:22pm

martyos121 wrote: »

First two rounds for Claudia, as well as the third. Then a 10-8 for Joanna in the 4th followed by a 10-9 in the 5th. It wouldn't have been the most controversial thing ever if that was the outcome because Joanna would retain her title but the judges 100% got it right.

Not doubt it's possible but seeing the fight as a draw seems a bit of a stretch is all.

TUF 23 Finale: Team Joanna v Team Claudia (Includes TUF 23 Spoilers)

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