Tractor trailer hitch question

gerryirl · 24-06-2016 12:26AM #1

I'm after buying a 3 axle cattle trailer. I hadn't plannned on a 3 axle as its only going to be used on the tractor but a great second hand one came up for sake and I knew its history so I bought . Here's my problem . It has 13 inch rims on it so when I put it on the tractor the balance is wrong so all the weight is on the 2 back axles mostly the back one . Is there any device out there that can be bought that I could lower the hitch by a couple of inches . I've seen ones that go on the arms but that's not great job .
Thanks in advance

blue5000 · 24-06-2016 09:10AM

What I do is turn a clevis hitch upside down and put a screw in ball hitch on the long straight drawbar. This gives me about a 4 inch drop. Sorry don't have any photos.

davidk1394 · 24-06-2016 12:27PM

blue5000 wrote: »

What I do is turn a clevis hitch upside down and put a screw in ball hitch on the long straight drawbar. This gives me about a 4 inch drop. Sorry don't have any photos.

That's what we do. Works a treat. I'll stick up a picture later

rangler1 · 24-06-2016 03:27PM

Considering that those trailers are now illegal behind a jeep, there'll be a good few looking for that information.
....that's if the guards enforce the laws,
presume you referrring to a fourteen foot trailer

Reggie. · 24-06-2016 03:57PM

rangler1 wrote: »

Considering that those trailers are now illegal behind a jeep, there'll be a good few looking for that information.
....that's if the guards enforce the laws,
presume you referrring to a fourteen foot trailer

Wonder would you pick them up handy 2nd hand now that they are illegal for jeeps as you say

tractorporn · 24-06-2016 04:08PM

Reggie. wrote: »

Wonder would you pick them up handy 2nd hand now that they are illegal for jeeps as you say

I passed Regan's in Frenchpark the other day and they had a world of 2nd hand trailers outside a couple of fresh looking 3 axles, a local man told me that they had traded in a good few against new trailers when the new regs came in.

Reggie. · 24-06-2016 04:43PM

tractorporn wrote: »

I passed Regan's in Frenchpark the other day and they had a world of 2nd hand trailers outside a couple of fresh looking 3 axles, a local man told me that they had traded in a good few against new trailers when the new regs came in.

Id be wary of regans as I know where the stuff comes from in England and it's not always good stuff.

davidk1394 · 24-06-2016 05:07PM

What are the new regulations

rangler1 · 24-06-2016 05:29PM

davidk1394 wrote: »

What are the new regulations

Old regs really, just not being enfoced, you're not supposed to tow more than the specified towing weight for your jeep. Most max jeep towing weights are around 3 tonne, 14ft trailers carry more than 3 ton and when you add in the weight of the trailer its illegal.

paddysdream · 24-06-2016 05:45PM

rangler1 wrote: »

Old regs really, just not being enfoced, you're not supposed to tow more than the specified towing weight for your jeep. Most max jeep towing weights are around 3 tonne, 14ft trailers carry more than 3 ton and when you add in the weight of the trailer its illegal.

Don't think you are correct on that or otherwise all the 2 axle IF trailers would be illegal as well as both are plated for 3.5 tonne.Specs(plating) for a 2 or 3 axle IF trailer whether 12 or 14 ft are identical as far as I am aware.Number of axles is totally irrelevant.
Few things come into play when towing a livestock box including; your licence,towing vehicle plating for max permissible weight,towing capacity and gross train weight,plus trailer plating.
Still no bother towing a 14ft box as long as you keep within the guidelines.
Posted the following before and is as I understand it;

Does BE licence not allow you up to 7 tonne gross ie vehicle,trailer and load depending on I would suppose trailer gross at 3.5 tonne or less if plated so(IW etc) plus weight of towing vehicle?
Had a quick look at RSA site and the following is what I understand it to be.
BE licence covers vehicle fully landen to DGVW plus its towing capacity.
Example
Toyota Landcruiser DGVW is 2850 kg(on tax book) or 2750 (DOE cert) or 2850kg (previous DOE cert) or even 2730(another DOE cert).Clear so far?
Thats van,fuel cargo,driver passenger etc.
Towing capacity is 3000kg as far as I know.
Sheep box here(12x6 2 axle Ifor Williams with decks)is plated to 3500kg and weights about 1100kg approx.

So; that gives you 2850 kg max for van plus 3000kg max for trailer or a total train weight of 5850kg.A LWB Pajero would rise this to 6350 assuming its DGVW was the same as the Toyota.Just looked and Pajero GVW is 3030kg plus 3500kg towing so total of 6530kg.
All as I understand it,allowable on a BE licence.
Apologies if wrong.

rangler1 · 24-06-2016 06:28PM

paddysdream wrote: »

Don't think you are correct on that or otherwise all the 2 axle IF trailers would be illegal as well as both are plated for 3.5 tonne.Specs(plating) for a 2 or 3 axle IF trailer whether 12 or 14 ft are identical as far as I am aware.Number of axles is totally irrelevant.
Few things come into play when towing a livestock box including; your licence,towing vehicle plating for max permissible weight,towing capacity and gross train weight,plus trailer plating.
Still no bother towing a 14ft box as long as you keep within the guidelines.
Posted the following before and is as I understand it;

Does BE licence not allow you up to 7 tonne gross ie vehicle,trailer and load depending on I would suppose trailer gross at 3.5 tonne or less if plated so(IW etc) plus weight of towing vehicle?
Had a quick look at RSA site and the following is what I understand it to be.
BE licence covers vehicle fully landen to DGVW plus its towing capacity.
Example
Toyota Landcruiser DGVW is 2850 kg(on tax book) or 2750 (DOE cert) or 2850kg (previous DOE cert) or even 2730(another DOE cert).Clear so far?
Thats van,fuel cargo,driver passenger etc.
Towing capacity is 3000kg as far as I know.
Sheep box here(12x6 2 axle Ifor Williams with decks)is plated to 3500kg and weights about 1100kg approx.

So; that gives you 2850 kg max for van plus 3000kg max for trailer or a total train weight of 5850kg.A LWB Pajero would rise this to 6350 assuming its DGVW was the same as the Toyota.Just looked and Pajero GVW is 3030kg plus 3500kg towing so total of 6530kg.
All as I understand it,allowable on a BE licence.
Apologies if wrong.

You have to adhere to the towing capacity of the jeep which as you say is 3000kg, so if you put 4 500kg cattle in your trailer, you are towing more than the max towing weight for the jeep when you add in the 1100kg weight of the trailer.
As i say it's not being enforced anyway so it's a bit irrelevant.

Muckit · 24-06-2016 07:35PM

rangler1 wrote: »

Old regs really, just not being enfoced, you're not supposed to tow more than the specified towing weight for your jeep. Most max jeep towing weights are around 3 tonne, 14ft trailers carry more than 3 ton and when you add in the weight of the trailer its illegal.

Two lads near here hauling 12 and 14's..... behind berlingos!!! I kid you not.

Muckit · 24-06-2016 07:38PM

Reggie. wrote: »

Id be wary of regans as I know where the stuff comes from in England and it's not always good stuff.

Are the army doing under cover surveillance now for the gardai?

fastrac94 · 24-06-2016 08:08PM

rangler1 wrote: »

Considering that those trailers are now illegal behind a jeep, there'll be a good few looking for that information.
....that's if the guards enforce the laws,
presume you referrring to a fourteen foot trailer

Thats some statement to make,irrelevant if trailer had 6 axles,still not illegal to pull with jeep,its drivers responsibility to load correctly..

paddysdream · 24-06-2016 08:14PM

rangler1 wrote: »

You have to adhere to the towing capacity of the jeep which as you say is 3000kg, so if you put 4 500kg cattle in your trailer, you are towing more than the max towing weight for the jeep when you add in the 1100kg weight of the trailer.
As i say it's not being enforced anyway so it's a bit irrelevant.

Then to stay within the law just put 3 cattle in the trailer

Muckit · 24-06-2016 08:45PM

14's I'd say are probably legal weightwise with 2 decks of sheep?

paddysdream · 24-06-2016 09:01PM

Muckit wrote: »

14's I'd say are probably legal weightwise with 2 decks of sheep?

All depends on how many lambs you put on board.45 lambs at 40 kgs puts a 12 IF over the limit for a Landcruiser as trailer is about 1100kg .60 40kg plus lambs on a 14ft. would prob. be overweight for even LWB pajero etc with 3500kg plated towing weight

Reggie. · 24-06-2016 11:50PM

Muckit wrote: »

Are the army doing under cover surveillance now for the gardai?

Nope they get alot of stuff from the wessex sale. It is held in the relatives yard

Nekarsulm · 25-06-2016 01:41PM

davidk1394 wrote: »

What are the new regulations

https://youtu.be/HhHyUMSn31s

barnaman · 25-06-2016 05:30PM

Would not chance with trailers and new regs. Lad in Tipp lost the licence for 2 years this week for pulling an illegal trailer.

barnaman · 25-06-2016 05:38PM

For Ops benefit... messing with towbars etc illegal unless you get it certified afterwards etc. "Mr Cahalane modified it to install a tow bar to allow it to be pulled by a tractor. The kingpin on the trailer had been removed, and there was no certificate to say what weight the new towbar could tow."

Reggie. · 25-06-2016 05:42PM

barnaman wrote: »

For Ops benefit... messing with towbars etc illegal unless you get it certified afterwards etc. "Mr Cahalane modified it to install a tow bar to allow it to be pulled by a tractor. The kingpin on the trailer had been removed, and there was no certificate to say what weight the new towbar could tow."

In your opinion Would that be the case if you say removed the Bradley hitch off a trailer and put a tractor towing eye on and Using the same bolts and holes the Bradley used. It's the Bradley hitch that has the limit on it not the trailer chassis. If that was removed as above I wonder would you be ok to carry more?

barnaman · 25-06-2016 05:51PM

I would say yes Reggie it would be. Trailer as a whole is certified. You take off the hitch it is certified with. You are then modifying it/building/contructing it new trailer or hitch could be looked at both ways Who is certfiying the eye you put on? Are you qualified to do welding etc. Thats way Guards would look at it.

http://www.mayonews.ie/news/27702-mayo-gardai-accused-of-targeting-agri-contractors

Thats the court case. Covered in this weeks journal and spoke to a lad from up that part of the world. The more serious charges of licence, tacho etc were dimissed by judge as area was unclear.

Nekarsulm · 25-06-2016 05:59PM

Sounds like he fitted a straight drawbar in place of the fifth wheel kingpin to an artic trailer.

Bass Reeves · 25-06-2016 06:00PM

Muckit wrote: »

Two lads near here hauling 12 and 14's..... behind berlingos!!! I kid you not.

Them Berlingo's are great van's.

Towing is going to be a minefield for lads. You will get your ass kicked if you are in the wrong. Remember there is no point in having too big a trailer as the extra weight counts against you. The case in Tipp was an eye opener last week. The lad was put off the road for 2 years for an illegal hitch:eek:. That is a fairly severe penelty. It will only take the guards to stop outside marts once or twice to really enforce the regs. If it goes before that judge lads will be off the road.

Nekarsulm · 25-06-2016 06:04PM

We had a Judge in Cavan a while ago whose daughter was killed by a speeding driver.
You really didn't want to be speeding and end up in front of him...

raypallas · 25-06-2016 07:17PM

rangler1 wrote:

Considering that those trailers are now illegal behind a jeep, there'll be a good few looking for that information. ....that's if the guards enforce the laws, presume you referrring to a fourteen foot trailer

Would the problem not be with the driver having no trailer license rather than the trailer itself?

barnaman · 25-06-2016 08:24PM

IMO alot of lads going to get caught in this area over next few years between not having right licences to modifying trailers thereby making them not of an approved type.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Legal-Requirements-for-towing-trailers-/

Whats interesting is definition of ""agricultural trailer" means a trailer, the property of a person engaged in agriculture, which is designed and used primarily for work on the land and which is used on a public road only incidentally to such work;"

Most cattle trailers pulled by tractors probably need a HGV licence no way that you can say they meet the definition above.

Nekarsulm · 25-06-2016 08:35PM

By that definition most Ifor Williams don't meet the requirements of an agri. trailer either.

paddysdream · 25-06-2016 10:43PM

Nekarsulm wrote: »

By that definition most Ifor Williams don't meet the requirements of an agri. trailer either.

The agri trailer bit is used for trailers pulled with tractors and not livestock trailers designed for jeeps/vans.

dunlopwellies · 26-06-2016 12:00AM

gerryirl wrote: »

I'm after buying a 3 axle cattle trailer. I hadn't plannned on a 3 axle as its only going to be used on the tractor but a great second hand one came up for sake and I knew its history so I bought . Here's my problem . It has 13 inch rims on it so when I put it on the tractor the balance is wrong so all the weight is on the 2 back axles mostly the back one . Is there any device out there that can be bought that I could lower the hitch by a couple of inches . I've seen ones that go on the arms but that's not great job .
Thanks in advance

ADJUSTABLE MOUNTING COUPLING
https://www.trailerstuff.ie/p/673:c:210_179_37_46/shop-by-category/trailer-accessories/couplings/height-adjustable-couplings/dixon-bate-extended-height-adjustable-coupling/

Something like this that your looking for? There was something similar for the tractor drawbar on donedeal a while back. I think it was called a load level or something.
Also the type of drawbar from a road compressor made by Bradley too I think might work as a bolt on solution. Should be load rated and braked.

Tractor trailer hitch question

Comments