British Labour MP shot near Leeds (mod warning in first post)

jmayo · 17-06-2016 11:51AM

12Phase wrote: »

The nutjobs have ALWAYS been around. I think we risk over analysing this.

The guy is a domestic terrorist and a violent murderer. He needs to be away for good.

No amount of explaining this by talking about the society being too PC or even the Brexit debate explains this.

All we need to know is whether he was part of an organised group or a lone wolf.

If it's a conspiracy and an organised thing, they need to start rounding up the terrorists.

Yes nutjobs were always around, but now we have them being adopted or rather they are adhering themselves to the most radical fundamentalist ideologies out there.
And some of these ideologies actually welcome these nutjobs because they are exactly what they are looking for to do their dirty work.
You have ISIS actually extolling these exact type of people to attack during Ramadan.
On the other side no doubt you have some neo nazis extolling others to get revenge for the muslim attacks.

Look at the US.
Since the rise of the likes of the Tea Party we have had the Republican party going further to the right with every year, so much so that the presumptive presidential candidate now is actually coming out with racist xenophobic rhetoric that actually doesn't appear to be mellowing the nearer he gets to nomination.

Pardon the pun but Sarah Palin's right wing rhetoric has been totaled trumped by Donald Trump.
If things keep going the way they are, I expect a Hitler lookalike to be in the running for the next election.

Britain is also now getting very divided as with a lot of other European countries.
Burying the head in the sand and claiming there are no issues is what is creating a vacuum that allows the hardliners gain traction.

donegaLroad · 17-06-2016 12:01PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

He just happened to violently murder a politician.

from todays Indo

Scott Mair, 50, told reporters on Thursday that his brother had a "history of mental illness, but he has had help".

And he told the Sun: "We are struggling to believe what has happened. My brother is not a violent man and is not that political.

"We don't even know who he votes for. I am visibly shaken at this news. I am so sorry for the MP and her family."

Mair's half-brother, Duane St Louis, 41, told ITV he believed his brother "wouldn't hurt a fly".

12Phase · 17-06-2016 12:07PM

Go back to the 1960s and the same nutjobs were adhering to racism and other things.

There have been horrific incidents like the shooting of JFK, the Swedish PM, people taking potshots at French Presidents.

You've had the KKK, neo-nazis, various far right groups, various far left groups, the Waco siege ... list is endless.

The internet has made some of the access to radical organisations and their ability to reach people much more rapid but, these things have always been bubbling away.

The only major difference i can see is a massive change in technology and speed of communication. It's meaning that we are seeing easier radicalisation and access to radical organisations. In past they had to actually find each other physically.

You can't roll back the clock and the benefits of the internet simply massively outweigh the downsides. It's breaking down barriers, spreading positive ideas about rights based democracy, bringing down corruption, undermining the ability to hide information and linking up very positive things too.

I just think though the mentality of these lone wolves hasn't really changed. Just the fact they're now more commonly seen due to better tech.

Saipanne · 17-06-2016 12:10PM

made_up wrote: »

this MP seems to have been a real good egg , awful tragedy

it sounds like the killer has a clear history of severe mental illness , its sort of taboo to say it but liberal policy makers in the area of health have chosen to make it very difficult to incarcerate people who are so sick , they pose a violent threat , while decades ago it was too easy to put people in institutions , its become too difficult today and many doctors believe its too easy themselves , both in the uk and in ireland .

ive a relative who is now in care about five years but he put his family and community through a lot of hardship for many years , luckily he never hurt someone badly but certain psychiatricsts fought tooth and nail to prevent him being placed in the proper enviroment , the mental health services are full of liberal idealogues and the result is that several times per year an innocent person is killed in this country and its always revealed that the killer had a long history of mental illness and everyone saw them as a ticking time bomb

We should just lock up everyone with mental illness, yeah?

Lyaiera · 17-06-2016 12:11PM

jmayo wrote: »

Pardon the pun but Sarah Palin's right wing rhetoric has been totaled trumped by Donald Trump.
If things keep going the way they are, I expect a Hitler lookalike to be in the running for the next election.

Britain is also now getting very divided as with a lot of other European countries.
Burying the head in the sand and claiming there are no issues is what is creating a vacuum that allows the hardliners gain traction.

Yeah, there's a lot of indication that extreme right wing politics are taking hold in a lot of places. What's even more scary is the redefinition of politic science as propaganda through hate, or people just not knowing enough.

The extreme right wing are painting themselves as traditionally right wing, the right wing as centrist, the centrists as left, and the left as extreme left.

It's been pretty normal for quite a while for America to have no clue, with the Republicans there being pretty much right wing, and the democrats centrist, while the likes of Bernie, a social democrat being called a straight up socialist and often a communist. That's coming over here. It's already happened in large parts of Europe.

Edit: An example of the overwhelming support amongst every scientist who studies and has published peer reviewed research Climate Change being painted as "liberal idealogues" in Academia. There's a lot of politics in science. The latest example is this UCC building guy, who's no doubt an expert on his field, going into areas that he hasn't researched, and pushing, at best controversy for the sake of a laugh.

HensVassal · 17-06-2016 01:42PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Gutter tabloid journalism being gutter tabloid journalism was my guess, though they did name him as a gas engineer from Birstall called Grant Rothwell. I even checked on social media because I was skeptical, and he was the first result up both times.

For reference - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brother-man-suspected-killing-jo-8213379

Both are actually from the same article, and the third hadn't heard the other two (which kind of conflict about the aftermath...)

So did he walk away unstopped, calmly down the steps? Or did he get pinned by two policemen while shouting 'Britain First' over and over? Could just be them paying anyone in the general area at the time to say anything, whether they had a good idea of what happened or not.

The police arrived on the scene quite quickly. Did somebody call them?

RayM · 17-06-2016 04:40PM

From the Guardian: Nazi regalia found at house of suspect

Junkyard Tom · 17-06-2016 04:55PM

FTA69 wrote: »

All I did was respond to your contention that politicians are a grand bunch.

I believe a politician has to prove his/her empathy with the public rather than it being presumed (as it appears Jo Cox did).

The Startling Accuracy of Referring to Politicians as 'Psychopaths'.

FTA69 · 17-06-2016 05:10PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I believe a politician has to prove his/her empathy with the public rather than it being presumed (as it appears Jo Cox did).

The Startling Accuracy of Referring to Politicians as 'Psychopaths'.

Exactly. F*ck this automatic reverence to those in power. Politicians aren't always in it for altruistic reasons and I'd say a good distrust in them in general is healthy.

RobertKK · 17-06-2016 06:10PM

It was a targeted attack, and right wing extremism being the ideology behind the attack along with mental health issues is the direction the police are going with the investigation.

Stigura · 17-06-2016 06:40PM

Bit more ..... http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/jo-cox-murdered-mps-final-words-as-she-lay-dying-revealed-by-assistants-father-a3274796.html

Jayop · 17-06-2016 07:12PM

RobertKK wrote: »

It was a targeted attack, and right wing extremism being the ideology behind the attack along with mental health issues is the direction the police are going with the investigation.

Of course it was, and anyone trying to suggest otherwise yesterday was probably agenda driven. This was never a random act or her being in the wrong place This was always going to be about either the Brexit or her attitudes towards immigration. With the center and far right stoking up emotions since before the last GE over there it's no wonder something like this has happened.

RayM · 17-06-2016 07:13PM

Jayop wrote: »

Of course it was, and anyone trying to suggest otherwise yesterday was probably agenda driven. This was never a random act or her being in the wrong place This was always going to be about either the Brexit or her attitudes towards immigration. With the center and far right stoking up emotions since before the last GE over there it's no wonder something like this has happened.

https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/642984909980725248

Maybe right-wing politicians will now be more careful with their scaremongering.

Jayop · 17-06-2016 07:20PM

RayM wrote: »

Maybe right-wing politicians will now be more careful with their scaremongering.

Exactly what I mean. Cameron is a moron. He runs a GE scaremongering about immigrants then expects to win a referendum that was always going to be about immigration. He wanted to have his cake and eat it.

He and all the others who've incited hate in the UK and further afield have this woman's blood on their hands.

Rjd2 · 17-06-2016 07:39PM

Jayop wrote: »

Of course it was, and anyone trying to suggest otherwise yesterday was probably agenda driven. This was never a random act or her being in the wrong place This was always going to be about either the Brexit or her attitudes towards immigration. With the center and far right stoking up emotions since before the last GE over there it's no wonder something like this has happened.

All we had for a few hours afterwards was the eye witnesses who had conflicting reports, which I think for some was where the confusion was. Their was agendas off course from both sides, but their was some who wanted to wait until we learn some more facts about the case. Not all us are dreadful, just the majority of us. :pac:

Jayop · 17-06-2016 07:41PM

Rjd2 wrote: »

All we had for a few hours afterwards was the eye witnesses who had conflicting reports, which I think for some was where the confusion was. Their was agendas off course from both sides, but their was some who wanted to wait until we learn some more facts about the case. Not all us are dreadful, just the majority of us. :pac:

Dude it was pretty much crystal clear once it emerged who and what she was what kind of a crime this was and what the motive would be.

scream · 17-06-2016 07:50PM

The Police have said that they are keeping an open mind and are investigating not just a terrorism angle but also the mental illness aspect and an un investigated sexual angle. Given that they haven't determined exactly what his motive was we can assume that he didn't make a statement to the Police claiming political issues for doing so? If it were politically motivated one would expect him to be shouting it from the rooftops.

A Dub in Glasgo · 17-06-2016 08:19PM

It is fairly obvious that was a political murder

Junkyard Tom · 17-06-2016 08:24PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It is fairly obvious that was a political murder

A guy with serious political views shoots and stabs to death an elected politician with political views at odds to his and it's a "political murder"?

Stop trying to politicise this tragedy. :mad:

[/sarc]

12Phase · 17-06-2016 08:29PM

RayM wrote: »

https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/642984909980725248

Maybe right-wing politicians will now be more careful with their scaremongering.

That really sums up the state of British politics right now. Toxic and willing to use highly divisive rhetoric like that.

I know Ireland's political system has got it's quirks and annoyances, but I'm very glad that we're not as divided as that!

17-06-2016 08:31PM

Jayop wrote: »

OWith the center and far right stoking up emotions since before the last GE over there it's no wonder something like this has happened.

There's a wide chasm between "stoking up emotions" and shooting a politician to death in the street.

You could reverse an articulated lorry and build several McInerney homes between the two ideas.

We're not even talking incitement to violence here. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson weren't standing on a rostrum on a grubby street in Yorkshire shouting "Go on, lads; get her!"

I think what you're saying here is nothing more than a populist cheap-shot. Not only are you diminishing the killer's personal responsibility, you're framing it in a way which implicitly challenges the free exchange of ideas, and the right to freedom of speech.

Nothing that has been said by Farage and his ilk can be reasonably described as violent.

I hope for the sake of the family of the victim, that nobody uses her as a pawn in their petty little squabble.

Saipanne · 17-06-2016 08:33PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

There's a wide chasm between "stoking up emotions" and shooting a politician to death in the street.

You could reverse an articulated lorry and build several McInerney homes between the two ideas.

We're not even talking incitement to violence here. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson weren't standing on a rostrum on a grubby street in Yorkshire shouting "Go on, lads; get her!"

I think what you're saying here is nothing more than a populist cheap-shot. Not only are you diminishing the killer's personal responsibility, you're framing it in a way which implicitly challenges the free exchange of ideas, and the right to freedom of speech.

Nothing that has been said by Farage and his ilk can be reasonably described as violent.

I hope for the sake of the family of the victim, that nobody uses her as a pawn in their petty little squabble.

Spot on.

Rjd2 · 17-06-2016 08:35PM

Jayop wrote: »

Dude it was pretty much crystal clear once it emerged who and what she was what kind of a crime this was and what the motive would be.

Well yeah once the links to the South Africa white racists and subs to the Nazi subscriptions came out, it was pretty obvious his allegiance and their is reports their is photos of him at BP meetings floating around as I type.

I think what I am trying to explain is when all we had was conflicting eye reports, it was probably a little early to label him as "far right", especially as those reports did suggest that she was interfering in a fight between the alleged killer and other person which at the time did not suggest it was planned.

Little CuChulainn · 17-06-2016 08:44PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

We're not even talking incitement to violence here. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson weren't standing on a rostrum on a grubby street in Yorkshire shouting "Go on, lads; get her!"

Such is the power of hate speech

A Dub in Glasgo · 17-06-2016 08:53PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

There's a wide chasm between "stoking up emotions" and shooting a politician to death in the street.

You could reverse an articulated lorry and build several McInerney homes between the two ideas.

We're not even talking incitement to violence here. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson weren't standing on a rostrum on a grubby street in Yorkshire shouting "Go on, lads; get her!"

I think what you're saying here is nothing more than a populist cheap-shot. Not only are you diminishing the killer's personal responsibility, you're framing it in a way which implicitly challenges the free exchange of ideas, and the right to freedom of speech.

Nothing that has been said by Farage and his ilk can be reasonably described as violent.

I hope for the sake of the family of the victim, that nobody uses her as a pawn in their petty little squabble.

A day of Infamy

stefanovich · 17-06-2016 09:10PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

There's a wide chasm between "stoking up emotions" and shooting a politician to death in the street.

You could reverse an articulated lorry and build several McInerney homes between the two ideas.

We're not even talking incitement to violence here. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson weren't standing on a rostrum on a grubby street in Yorkshire shouting "Go on, lads; get her!"

I think what you're saying here is nothing more than a populist cheap-shot. Not only are you diminishing the killer's personal responsibility, you're framing it in a way which implicitly challenges the free exchange of ideas, and the right to freedom of speech.

Nothing that has been said by Farage and his ilk can be reasonably described as violent.

I hope for the sake of the family of the victim, that nobody uses her as a pawn in their petty little squabble.

Well said.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Such is the power of hate speech

Where's the hate speech?

stefanovich · 17-06-2016 09:14PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

A day of Infamy

I'm usually a fan of the spectator but that was pure drivel.

catbear · 17-06-2016 09:14PM

12Phase wrote: »

I know Ireland's political system has got it's quirks and annoyances, but I'm very glad that we're not as divided as that!

I reckon the next abortion referendum will be very divisive.

beach_walker · 17-06-2016 09:15PM

So much for no campaigning today, got a load of leaflets (all Remain) through the door this evening.

Jayop · 17-06-2016 09:26PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

There's a wide chasm between "stoking up emotions" and shooting a politician to death in the street.

You could reverse an articulated lorry and build several McInerney homes between the two ideas.

We're not even talking incitement to violence here. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson weren't standing on a rostrum on a grubby street in Yorkshire shouting "Go on, lads; get her!"

I think what you're saying here is nothing more than a populist cheap-shot. Not only are you diminishing the killer's personal responsibility, you're framing it in a way which implicitly challenges the free exchange of ideas, and the right to freedom of speech.

Nothing that has been said by Farage and his ilk can be reasonably described as violent.

I hope for the sake of the family of the victim, that nobody uses her as a pawn in their petty little squabble.

Rubbish. You don't have to stand on a soap box calling out for people to be killed to have a direct effect on someone getting riled up and doing something crazy.

Do you think Donald Trump's rhetoric is a major causal factor in an huge increase in racism related incidents in US schools? is it that much of a leap to say that if you can get loads of people riled up enough about something like the right have down with immigration int he last few years that you're going to have at least one nutter that's going to take your message and go one step further.

The nonsense spouted by the Tory and other more extreme right groups are causing race hate incidents up and down the UK. They are a direct causal factor in these incidents and this is no different.

Free speech is grand and all, but it comes with great responsibility. If you wind someone up to the point where they do something like this then you are a part of it.

"The Labour Party is now a threat to our national security, our economic security and your family's security."

The Prime ****ing minister said that. Are you surprised that some unstable nutcase took the message and decided to do something to protect their families security?

British Labour MP shot near Leeds (mod warning in first post)

Comments