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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

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Comments

  • #6452
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    6270red wrote: »
    No am I asking for a pension? Most retired lads including my father have shares. I don't and to be honest I think your arguments here are an insult. Your no longer involved in the industry so maybe you should leave the fight to the people still involved and the young farmers like myself to fight the good fight.
    How many more times can I say I'm not looking for something for nothing I'm only looking for a fair return for my work.
    The coop workers also have shares and get the other benefits as well,
    I'm a shareholder in the industry and am entitled to have my say


  • #6453
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    6270red wrote: »
    No am I asking for a pension? Most retired lads including my father have shares. I don't and to be honest I think your arguments here are an insult. Your no longer involved in the industry so maybe you should leave the fight to the people still involved and the young farmers like myself to fight the good fight.
    How many more times can I say I'm not looking for something for nothing I'm only looking for a fair return for my work.

    I'm afraid looking for an an income for producing something that's in surplus or not wanted is looking for something for nothing.
    No point in shooting the processor


  • #6454
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    6270red wrote: »
    No am I asking for a pension? Most retired lads including my father have shares. I don't and to be honest I think your arguments here are an insult. Your no longer involved in the industry so maybe you should leave the fight to the people still involved and the young farmers like myself to fight the good fight.
    How many more times can I say I'm not looking for something for nothing I'm only looking for a fair return for my work.

    Or maybe you bought into the WHITE LIQUID GOLD phenomenon maybe you should go up those hills and panning the streams for real GOLD


  • #6455
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭alps


    BannerBarry wrote: »
    Why take legal action against Kerry Group PLC and not the solicitor that reviewed the agreement on your behalf back in 2011?
    They were the well paid solicitors that missed defining "the leading milk price".

    y.

    Did farmers get their own legal advise before signing up to this?

    If not...why not?

    Why would you blame a firm of solicitors hired and paid for by Kerry to do a job Kerry asked them to do.

    The same thing happened in Dairygold, where DG hired a firm to get advise on behalf of an for the farmer,yet no farmer would be shown what that advise was. Any farmer that got their own advise was advised not to sign.

    Why then do farmers blame someone else for their own decision to sign. It was just careless.

    Credit to the farmers for now putting up a fight. If they were promised and have a contract stating "the leading milk price" then that's what they are entitled to.

    This arbitration will revolve around the definition of what is the leading milk price. Over what term is it leading price or by what standard or is it based money paid or wealth generated?

    It will.probably define the relationship and any future that farmers will have as raw material suppliers to a massive multinational organisation.

    It's a pity but the, the Kerry that suppliers could feel proud of and connected to, is probably gone.


  • #6456
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    That claim was made during a coop conversion


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  • #6457
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    Have the farmers a contract document stating leading price with Kerry plc, don't think so


  • #6458
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    alps wrote: »
    Did farmers get their own legal advise before signing up to this?

    If not...why not?

    Why would you blame a firm of solicitors hired and paid for by Kerry to do a job Kerry asked them to do.

    The same thing happened in Dairygold, where DG hired a firm to get advise on behalf of an for the farmer,yet no farmer would be shown what that advise was. Any farmer that got their own advise was advised not to sign.

    Why then do farmers blame someone else for their own decision to sign. It was just careless.

    Credit to the farmers for now putting up a fight. If they were promised and have a contract stating "the leading milk price" then that's what they are entitled to.

    This arbitration will revolve around the definition of what is the leading milk price. Over what term is it leading price or by what standard or is it based money paid or wealth generated?

    It will.probably define the relationship and any future that farmers will have as raw material suppliers to a massive multinational organisation.

    It's a pity but the, the Kerry that suppliers could feel proud of and connected to, is probably gone.
    That's a good point, actually.

    The social compact that a lot of farmers are depending on is long gone but I think some of the older farmers still believe the positive 'spin' that Kerry put on the story.

    Pay for the product they are buying not capital appreciation of shares.

    Will we cut their wages and tell them to live off their increased house prices?


  • #6459
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭alps


    fepper wrote: »
    Have the farmers a contract document stating leading price with Kerry plc, don't think so

    Does it not say ?

    5.1 The price payable by Kerry for raw milk shall be the leading milk price on a like for like basis.


  • #6460
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    The plcs like for like basis on their terms


  • #6461
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    alps wrote: »
    Did farmers get their own legal advise before signing up to this?

    If not...why not?

    Why would you blame a firm of solicitors hired and paid for by Kerry to do a job Kerry asked them to do.

    The same thing happened in Dairygold, where DG hired a firm to get advise on behalf of an for the farmer,yet no farmer would be shown what that advise was. Any farmer that got their own advise was advised not to sign.

    Why then do farmers blame someone else for their own decision to sign. It was just careless.

    Credit to the farmers for now putting up a fight. If they were promised and have a contract stating "the leading milk price" then that's what they are entitled to.

    This arbitration will revolve around the definition of what is the leading milk price. Over what term is it leading price or by what standard or is it based money paid or wealth generated?

    It will.probably define the relationship and any future that farmers will have as raw material suppliers to a massive multinational organisation.

    It's a pity but the, the Kerry that suppliers could feel proud of and connected to, is probably gone.

    One should never sign a document they didn't understand.
    The milk organisation, a farm organisation, a board of 28 Co Op directors and a solicitor all supported the contract on your behalf.
    You were also entitled to seek independent legal advice on the document before signing. Hindsight is 20 20 I know.
    I'll place money with anyone here that Kerry Group will win this Arbitration or litigation thereafter. Want to put €50 with me on this very sad situation of a "result" for Munster farmers and Kerry shareholders?


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  • #6462
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭alps


    BannerBarry wrote: »
    One should never sign a document they didn't understand.
    The milk organisation, a farm organisation, a board of 28 Co Op directors and a solicitor all supported the contract on your behalf.
    You were also entitled to seek independent legal advice on the document before signing. Hindsight is 20 20 I know.
    I'll place money with anyone here that Kerry Group will win this Arbitration or litigation thereafter. Want to put €50 with me on this very sad situation of a "result" for Munster farmers and Kerry shareholders?

    I'm in.... €50 on the farmers....put a bit of skin in the game..

    Can we have Buford T referee?

    What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law...


  • #6463
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,788 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    OverRide wrote: »
    See that
    Any sign of the bps ballancing payment
    It's later than last year now despite a promise to make it earlier
    statements are up now, 19cpl in a sickner of a price tbh, 24.05 net milk price here for May. For some reason 38 euro for macra came off my account!


  • #6464
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    alps wrote: »
    I'm in.... €50 on the farmers....put a bit of skin in the game..

    Can we have Buford T referee?

    What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law...

    You are on. €50 it is..... here its in writing. I offered.. you accepted. It's Euro 50 and not Russian Rouble.
    The payment to be made to Terence Casey solicitors within 1 week of the result.
    Beaufort and Fepper to do Binding Arbitration in the event of a dispute!!!
    Just clarifying... We know how lack of clarity causes disputes!!

    Honestly we all want the best for the milk suppliers. I milked many cows for 20 plus years.
    I just think the approach could have been better for everyone.


  • #6465
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    alps wrote: »
    I'm in.... €50 on the farmers....put a bit of skin in the game..

    Can we have Buford T referee?

    What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law...

    A bit over the top there regarding law,a mutual agreement looks better!


  • #6466
    6270red
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭6270red


    fepper wrote: »
    Or maybe you bought into the WHITE LIQUID GOLD phenomenon maybe you should go up those hills and panning the streams for real GOLD

    No I took on a farm that was farmed well for generations didn't expand numbers didn't rent land.
    Your the typical hurler on the ditch. If you wanted to stay involved you should have kept the cows.
    Don't come on here telling fellas whose livelihood is on the line to not fight for it.
    And don't believe for one second that young farmers are fools who bought into the white gold bull****. I can speake for some and they are well educated intelligent farmers and they would buy and sell the likes of you.


  • #6467
    6270red
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭6270red


    rangler1 wrote: »
    I'm afraid looking for an an income for producing something that's in surplus or not wanted is looking for something for nothing.
    No point in shooting the processor

    Is that the way you'd have handled it in your IFA years? Nothing to see here lads as you eat another steak dinner with the big wigs..


  • #6468
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    whelan2 wrote: »
    statements are up now, 19cpl in a sickner of a price tbh, 24.05 net milk price here for May. For some reason 38 euro for macra came off my account!

    21.88c here... 38e macra fee taken out also. I cancelled the bulk tank maintenance fee, which was 540e over April/may in previous years, and an utter waste of money as the tank never got serviced etc despite calling them up.


  • #6469
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    6270red wrote: »
    I can speake for some and they are well educated intelligent farmers and they would buy and sell the likes of you.
    Maybe if they are so good at buying and selling then let them buy and sell ur milk and not Kerry plc


  • #6470
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    6270red wrote: »
    Is that the way you'd have handled it in your IFA years? Nothing to see here lads as you eat another steak dinner with the big wigs..


    Unless you reduce supply or increase demand now, you're going to get a lesson in how the market works.....you're in the real world now


  • #6471
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    6270red wrote: »
    No am I asking for a pension? Most retired lads including my father have shares. I don't and to be honest I think your arguments here are an insult. Your no longer involved in the industry so maybe you should leave the fight to the people still involved and the young farmers like myself to fight the good fight.
    How many more times can I say I'm not looking for something for nothing I'm only looking for a fair return for my work.

    I'm not in too dissimilar a position than you, Unfortunately life isn't fair, the fact is we are all knocking out a commodity that there is simply wayyy too much of in the world at the minute. Yep we've all been lead down this path by overzealous teagasc chaps, Processors who have us by the balls and locked into 5year contracts etc, but as things stand there isn't a whole lot I can do about it at the second, otherwise than put the head down, coast on through the next year (or more if needs be) (and for me to that most certainly means culling at all stage I'm anyway tight for cash flow).

    However once bitten twice shy, I've totally changed my attitude from back in the happy slappy days of 39c/l, I'm lucky enough not to have gone wild with loads of debt (and I hugely pitty anyone who has), I'll play out the next year or so but would have zero issues with taking drastic measures like culling heavy, OAD and go back to work, or even just get out totally. I'll most certainly be reconsidering my options when the time comes that I can hand in notice to get out of the current 5year contract. Ultimately I'll admit I've grown to dislike the direction the whole food and agricultural industry in general is heading and by now I'd be very surprised if I'm still dairying in 10years time, life is jsut too short.


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  • #6472
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    6270red wrote: »
    Is that the way you'd have handled it in your IFA years? Nothing to see here lads as you eat another steak dinner with the big wigs..

    You should have had pints of milk instead of those pints of Guinness with all those steak dinners you were having up there!!


  • #6473
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,788 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Timmaay wrote: »
    21.88c here... 38e macra fee taken out also. I cancelled the bulk tank maintenance fee, which was 540e over April/may in previous years, and an utter waste of money as the tank never got serviced etc despite calling them up.
    Did you sign up for the macra money to be taken out, never noticed it coming off my cheque before


  • #6474
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,788 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Timmaay wrote: »
    21.88c here... 38e macra fee taken out also. I cancelled the bulk tank maintenance fee, which was 540e over April/may in previous years, and an utter waste of money as the tank never got serviced etc despite calling them up.
    Is it not that it will cover any breakdown, I know with a new tank there shouldnt be a breakdown but I assume parts for new tanks are not cheap. Also first year of new tank you dont pay a maintenance fee


  • #6475
    boggerman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭boggerman1


    When did the miss madra start taking money off milk accounts?


  • #6476
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Is it not that it will cover any breakdown, I know with a new tank there shouldnt be a breakdown but I assume parts for new tanks are not cheap. Also first year of new tank you dont pay a maintenance fee

    The last bloody time I called the serviceman to look at the old tanks was in early June afew yrs back, as I knew it would be under pressure, he said he was busy but would look at it within 2wks. No sign of him and sure enough on a warm spell end of June the compressor overheated and full load of milk had to be dumped. It was part the reason I bought the new tank from a different crowd. I've never had an issue with the new bulk tank, and the copland compressors are fairly bulletproof so having no breakdown cover is a gamble I'm well happy to risk, if I get one breakdown in the next 5yrs I can't see it costing me 2500 which is what the insurance would amount to.


  • #6477
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    Maybe one for the Kerry guys.
    http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/agribusiness/dairy/us-dairy-farmers-win-settlement-over-milk-price-war/news-story/b2b2e36438decc8ab4f72100d4e99637

    Sometimes the farmer does win.:)


  • #6478
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Timmaay wrote: »
    The last bloody time I called the serviceman to look at the old tanks was in early June afew yrs back, as I knew it would be under pressure, he said he was busy but would look at it within 2wks. No sign of him and sure enough on a warm spell end of June the compressor overheated and full load of milk had to be dumped. It was part the reason I bought the new tank from a different crowd. I've never had an issue with the new bulk tank, and the copland compressors are fairly bulletproof so having no breakdown cover is a gamble I'm well happy to risk, if I get one breakdown in the next 5yrs I can't see it costing me 2500 which is what the insurance would amount to.

    Jaysus, Tim, how low do you expect milk to fall? :pac:


  • #6479
    6270red
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭6270red


    fepper wrote: »
    You should have had pints of milk instead of those pints of Guinness with all those steak dinners you were having up there!!

    ??????


  • #6480
    6270red
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭6270red


    fepper wrote: »
    Maybe if they are so good at buying and selling then let them buy and sell ur milk and not Kerry plc

    Your clearly not understanding the argument I making at all.


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  • #6481
    6270red
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭6270red


    Timmaay wrote: »
    I'm not in too dissimilar a position than you, Unfortunately life isn't fair, the fact is we are all knocking out a commodity that there is simply wayyy too much of in the world at the minute. Yep we've all been lead down this path by overzealous teagasc chaps, Processors who have us by the balls and locked into 5year contracts etc, but as things stand there isn't a whole lot I can do about it at the second, otherwise than put the head down, coast on through the next year (or more if needs be) (and for me to that most certainly means culling at all stage I'm anyway tight for cash flow).

    However once bitten twice shy, I've totally changed my attitude from back in the happy slappy days of 39c/l, I'm lucky enough not to have gone wild with loads of debt (and I hugely pitty anyone who has), I'll play out the next year or so but would have zero issues with taking drastic measures like culling heavy, OAD and go back to work, or even just get out totally. I'll most certainly be reconsidering my options when the time comes that I can hand in notice to get out of the current 5year contract. Ultimately I'll admit I've grown to dislike the direction the whole food and agricultural industry in general is heading and by now I'd be very surprised if I'm still dairying in 10years time, life is jsut too short.

    Don't worry Tim the Kerry suppliers will make the stand that saves us all!!!! Keep tipping away!!


This discussion has been closed.
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