Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

450 a ton for feed, it's glenisk who are beside us and apparently they can't get enough milk, local farm in conversion beside us to at the minute .....
On stocking rates I would probably cut numbers back to 80-90 cows on a 140 acre grazing block and have another 35 on out - farms, have spent a lot of money on reseeding/lime /building up p and k over the last few years so reckon if I put in a good bit of clover the farm will respond to it well, would be sowing crops for wholecrop aswell/maybe some kale etc to reduce bought - in feed

How will it work if you are under contract to glanbia?

Buford T. Justice XIX

jaymla627 wrote: »

450 a ton for feed, it's glenisk who are beside us and apparently they can't get enough milk, local farm in conversion beside us to at the minute .....
On stocking rates I would probably cut numbers back to 80-90 cows on a 140 acre grazing block and have another 35 on out - farms, have spent a lot of money on reseeding/lime /building up p and k over the last few years so reckon if I put in a good bit of clover the farm will respond to it well, would be sowing crops for wholecrop aswell/maybe some kale etc to reduce bought - in feed

Be careful though. I remember organic milk in England being sold for regular milk prices because there was a glut in supply after a large number of farms converted at the one time.

So they had the extra cost of organic production with conventional prices.

Indeed, there is an organic farm I know selling milk to Kerry.

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

How will it work if you are under contract to glanbia?

Currently leasing farm from father on a rolling one year agreement, would simply cancel lease and my father would be supplying the milk, knowing glanbia they probably would still try to come after us but I don't think they have any basis too, I signed msa with them, have no land/facilities in my name so I reckon it by-passes their msa

Waffletraktor

visatorro wrote: »

Interesting, I would have thought the buy British brand would be stronger than the buy Irish iykwim. will farming in the UK split between extreme factory type Farms and niche/organic places with no middle ground?

Just on the NHS, it's a superbly ran business compared to the shambles of an excuse for healthcare we have here.

It's always been a boom bust for uk ag back to when they sent in the gunboats and stole from other countries, were legal drug dealers in interest of the state etc.. There's plenty of old money that got it via dubious means they would rather kept quite. They could import most of the food.
Farms will rant and rave but above is the way it will go I feel. They will be looked after just incase needed again in the future paid to keep the countryside nice and pretty. Under current planning regulation cropping houses is very profitable! The big shame will be young people have no chance unless they get a job as a worker/born with right surname/prepared for a life of renting bits and pieces/earn a lot of cash then comeback to ag.
Nhs is a good institute, you can just ring local gp get a appointment within a few hours and go without any que or money needed to be stumped up. The rhetoric is all the foreigners filling it up in cities but nothing about a large amount of the staff being immigrants doing work the majority of Brits are too thick or lazy to do.
Going back to health boards now are they? My sister moved worked in peds-ae described Irish hospitals as a battlefield.

jaymla627

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Be careful though. I remember organic milk in England being sold for regular milk prices because there was a glut in supply after a large number of farms converted at the one time.

So they had the extra cost of organic production with conventional prices.

Indeed, there is an organic farm I know selling milk to

Would have it well sounded out if I do switch over, read a article where they are guaranteeing milk price for two years for new suppliers, going forward their doesn't really seem to be much of a appetite for Irish milk producers going organic, can't see their been a flood of guys switching over given my closeness to factory I reckon i a serious advantage in that regard too

rangler1

jaymla627 wrote: »

Would have it well sounded out if I do switch over, read a article where they are guaranteeing milk price for two years for new suppliers, going forward their doesn't really seem to be much of a appetite for Irish milk producers going organic, can't see their been a flood of guys switching over given my closeness to factory I reckon i a serious advantage in that regard too

Plenty of organically reared lamb going the conventional route in Ireland too

Buford T. Justice XIX

rangler1 wrote: »

Plenty of organically reared lamb going the conventional route in Ireland too

Yeah, I remember something from a meeting that a third of organic lamb and a quarter of organic beef (or the other way round) went as conventional meat.

Markcheese

Never wrestle with pigs wrote:

On a side note, I was talking to an elderly man a few days ago. He was a very good beef and tillage man. He said years ago a tonne of beet would have bought him a really good suit! With the extra cost of that tonne now, what would that tonne buy you now? The laces?

How much work was it to grow ,harvest and deliver the original tonne of beet..
Beet now big machinery, plenty fert and sprays no thinning or hoeing harvest and delivery easier too...

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

450 a ton for feed, it's glenisk who are beside us and apparently they can't get enough milk, local farm in conversion beside us to at the minute .....
On stocking rates I would probably cut numbers back to 80-90 cows on a 140 acre grazing block and have another 35 on out - farms, have spent a lot of money on reseeding/lime /building up p and k over the last few years so reckon if I put in a good bit of clover the farm will respond to it well, would be sowing crops for wholecrop aswell/maybe some kale etc to reduce bought - in feed

Organic is something I'm taken a look at lately also, from what I can tell it will take about 5yrs to successfully convert over and get the SR back up, you won't stock the same as conventional however equally so with correct use of clover you should hit 80% of the overall SR of conventional. The high price of any sort of organic nuts means it hugely favours the low input systems, in particular the likes of a young JEx/br fr herd who don't need the feeding and will need less vet interference etc. The use of high quality leafy silage to keep up the yields during the shoulder months when clover doesn't grow well. It probably suits heavier farms moreso also which have a very low risk of drought, a heavy farm will struggle to graze on the shoulders anyways.

It's all something I need to do more homework on, and absolutely not something I'd jump into 1/2 hearted, however meanwhile as an intermediate measure I'm more serious about clover and will be protecting all clover on the farm moving forward, personally I wouldnt be surprised if we see stricter nitrates limits from the EU moving forward, as well as that the teagasc research looks promising enough.

My main question about organics is by how much it will increase my cost of production by, I'd want to keep the door open to going back to normal milk if the organic market got satruated. It's all certainly a risk I'll admit, at the minute we are all negative about milk powder to the international market but going and sinking 50/100k into converting over to organic over afew years just to end up with the market satruated and very little premium over normal milk wouldn't be fun...

freedominacup

Waffletraktor wrote: »

visatorro wrote: »

Interesting, I would have thought the buy British brand would be stronger than the buy Irish iykwim. will farming in the UK split between extreme factory type Farms and niche/organic places with no middle ground?

Just on the NHS, it's a superbly ran business compared to the shambles of an excuse for healthcare we have here.

It's always been a boom bust for uk ag back to when they sent in the gunboats and stole from other countries, were legal drug dealers in interest of the state etc.. There's plenty of old money that got it via dubious means they would rather kept quite. They could import most of the food.
Farms will rant and rave but above is the way it will go I feel. They will be looked after just incase needed again in the future paid to keep the countryside nice and pretty. Under current planning regulation cropping houses is very profitable! The big shame will be young people have no chance unless they get a job as a worker/born with right surname/prepared for a life of renting bits and pieces/earn a lot of cash then comeback to ag.
Nhs is a good institute, you can just ring local gp get a appointment within a few hours and go without any que or money needed to be stumped up. The rhetoric is all the foreigners filling it up in cities but nothing about a large amount of the staff being immigrants doing work the majority of Brits are too thick or lazy to do.
Going back to health boards now are they? My sister moved worked in peds-ae described Irish hospitals as a battlefield.

On the nhs it depends where you are waffle. The sister lived in N London for a number of years now living in relatively rural Essex. Chalk and chesse as regards access to gp.

browned

Timmaay wrote: »

Organic is something I'm taken a look at lately also, from what I can tell it will take about 5yrs to successfully convert over and get the SR back up, you won't stock the same as conventional however equally so with correct use of clover you should hit 80% of the overall SR of conventional. The high price of any sort of organic nuts means it hugely favours the low input systems, in particular the likes of a young JEx/br fr herd who don't need the feeding and will need less vet interference etc. The use of high quality leafy silage to keep up the yields during the shoulder months when clover doesn't grow well. It probably suits heavier farms moreso also which have a very low risk of drought, a heavy farm will struggle to graze on the shoulders anyways.

It's all something I need to do more homework on, and absolutely not something I'd jump into 1/2 hearted, however meanwhile as an intermediate measure I'm more serious about clover and will be protecting all clover on the farm moving forward, personally I wouldnt be surprised if we see stricter nitrates limits from the EU moving forward, as well as that the teagasc research looks promising enough.

My main question about organics is by how much it will increase my cost of production by, I'd want to keep the door open to going back to normal milk if the organic market got satruated. It's all certainly a risk I'll admit, at the minute we are all negative about milk powder to the international market but going and sinking 50/100k into converting over to organic over afew years just to end up with the market satruated and very little premium over normal milk wouldn't be fun...

Would be slow to convert to organic if I'm honest. think it's requires a year round supply and I enjoy the 3 months off milking too much. There is a couple of guys in the oad discussion group supplying organic but you'd need good fertile soils as well and my ground would be far to marginal. That being said I am currently trying to reduce all levels of supplement in the herd be it meal,fertiliser or medicine so who knows what the future would bring.

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

Organic is something I'm taken a look at lately also, from what I can tell it will take about 5yrs to successfully convert over and get the SR back up, you won't stock the same as conventional however equally so with correct use of clover you should hit 80% of the overall SR of conventional. The high price of any sort of organic nuts means it hugely favours the low input systems, in particular the likes of a young JEx/br fr herd who don't need the feeding and will need less vet interference etc. The use of high quality leafy silage to keep up the yields during the shoulder months when clover doesn't grow well. It probably suits heavier farms moreso also which have a very low risk of drought, a heavy farm will struggle to graze on the shoulders anyways.

It's all something I need to do more homework on, and absolutely not something I'd jump into 1/2 hearted, however meanwhile as an intermediate measure I'm more serious about clover and will be protecting all clover on the farm moving forward, personally I wouldnt be surprised if we see stricter nitrates limits from the EU moving forward, as well as that the teagasc research looks promising enough.

My main question about organics is by how much it will increase my cost of production by, I'd want to keep the door open to going back to normal milk if the organic market got satruated. It's all certainly a risk I'll admit, at the minute we are all negative about milk powder to the international market but going and sinking 50/100k into converting over to organic over afew years just to end up with the market satruated and very little premium over normal milk wouldn't be fun...

AFAIK only around 50 organic milk producers in the country and no great intrest whatsoever in it, on chatting the guy beside us you actually need to run a autumn calving herd as a level profile of supply is required by thy processor but then you would be talking about 55 cent plus for milk produced on the Oct to feb months...
In fonterra the opening price for organic milk producers for thy 2016/2017 season is 9.50kg/ms....
My thinking is with the state of conventional milk markets at the minute and the absolute distain glanbia and Co are showing towards suppliers anything is better then sticking at what I'm at and hoping for the best

keep going

browned wrote: »

Would be slow to convert to organic if I'm honest. think it's requires a year round supply and I enjoy the 3 months off milking too much. There is a couple of guys in the oad discussion group supplying organic but you'd need good fertile soils as well and my ground would be far to marginal. That being said I am currently trying to reduce all levels of supplement in the herd be it meal,fertiliser or medicine so who knows what the future would bring.

3 months ,im thinking of 3 weeks

browned

keep going wrote: »

3 months ,im thinking of 3 weeks

15th nov till 13th feb. Maybe 1st dec at worst. Not a fan of marginal milk production.

Waffletraktor

freedominacup wrote: »

On the nhs it depends where you are waffle. The sister lived in N London for a number of years now living in relatively rural Essex. Chalk and chesse as regards access to gp.

Dont get me wrong we are well serviced locally, but i find london is great if you have money to spend and live in the right area on the longterm. Herselfs grandparent live in the same immigrant neglected area as when they arrived in in the early 60s bit of a difference to area some of her relations on paternal side live probably there since the romans!.
Cant call Essex rural!, so long as she doesnt take after the towie locals!

Timmaay

browned wrote: »

15th nov till 13th feb. Maybe 1st dec at worst. Not a fan of marginal milk production.

Jezz so not only are ya milking OAD, your only doing 270 odd milkings in the whole year, against the rest of us real dairyfarmers who do a proper days work and are in the pit 700times a yr, one word for ya, lazy But Nay I'm going to assume you have a very high 3wk calving rate if your only starting Feb 13th and want to be dry mid Nov, also what's the cull rate out of interest, I'm going to assume any late calvers quickly become unprofitable in your system?

kevthegaff

freedominacup wrote:

On the nhs it depends where you are waffle. The sister lived in N London for a number of years now living in relatively rural Essex. Chalk and chesse as regards access to gp.

Sis is a gp in one of the cities, person can ring up with symptoms and will be directed to nearest pharmacy where prescription is emailed. A lot more efficient than waiting queues here. The vaccinated 2000 people in one day for the flu!

Dawggone

kevthegaff wrote: »

Sis is a gp in one of the cities, person can ring up with symptoms and will be directed to nearest pharmacy where prescription is emailed. A lot more efficient than waiting queues here. The vaccinated 2000 people in one day for the flu!

That's quite unsettling.
I wouldn't treat animals like that.

Jeez.

I've family on 'payroll' here just to have access to something that resembles healthcare, even though they're on plan A back home...

Jeez.

kevthegaff

Dawggone wrote:

That's quite unsettling. I wouldn't treat animals like that.

Dawggone wrote:

I've family on 'payroll' here just to have access to something that resembles healthcare, even though they're on plan A back home...

Point is they got the flu vaccine, this saved down the road on more visits efficiently imo. According to Darwin wer just another creature😀 she knows the health service here from past experience and says with flaws is still well ahead of hse. What is the french sys like?

Dawggone

kevthegaff wrote: »

What is the french sys like?

:)

I was going to explain in words but that doesn't do it justice...so I'll use numbers...2016.

I won't put HSE or NHS into numbers...

pedigree 6

Sorry to interrupt the pair of ye.
But I was looking on youtube and I only found this guy now.
Maybe everyone follows him. But I thought he was good.
Links in with dairying in nz and was filmed last year.
Kind of links in with the EU thread here as well with like us nz being an ag exporter but have own currency. I've said way too much here's the clip.

Dawggone

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Sorry to interrupt the pair of ye.
But I was looking on youtube and I only found this guy now.
Maybe everyone follows him. But I thought he was good.
Links in with dairying in nz and was filmed last year.
Kind of links in with the EU thread here as well with like us nz being an ag exporter but have own currency. I've said way too much here's the clip.

Lost interest...boring and not informative.

Why oh why do the Irish think that you've/we've been supporting Kiwi expansion? So what?
You're quick to differentiate between turnover and profit...but, by Jeez, if you mention quota, one is battered comatose about the fact that Eu quota regime supported the expansion of NZ dairy. So fcuking what? Is there any brain out there that can differentiate between reality and myth?
PROFIT is a helluva more important than market share...

kerry cow

We are now in a world market and unfortunately some farms will have to fail for the rest to prosper .supply and demand and once a balance come back happy days , but farmers in Europe have to stop working for nothing and stop proping up their business with cash or off farm income , farming should be a business at all times , I see from a trip to Holland two years ago , many farms milking 100 cows had setups and robots in place to milk 200 cows , yet with the 1.5 million loans they were all working off farm to top up the bank account . All nuts !

browned

Timmaay wrote: »

Jezz so not only are ya milking OAD, your only doing 270 odd milkings in the whole year, against the rest of us real dairyfarmers who do a proper days work and are in the pit 700times a yr, one word for ya, lazy But Nay I'm going to assume you have a very high 3wk calving rate if your only starting Feb 13th and want to be dry mid Nov, also what's the cull rate out of interest, I'm going to assume any late calvers quickly become unprofitable in your system?

If you were to get a relief milker for those 430 extra milkings you're talking about nearly €15,000 in labour. One of the observations of the rapid expansion of both the Northern Ireland or nz dairy industries was that farmers ended up working longer hours for very little extra income and the same is happening here. While I mightnt be getting a better income at least I've reduced my labour

With a milking season from 14th feb -nov15th it means there's very little input outside of grazed grass so while late calvers have a shorter milking season it's almost entirely produced off grass. Last year on tad it was 65% in 3 weeks and 3% nic after 12 weeks. Oad maybe 75% in 3 weeks with similar nic rates.

RightTurnClyde

browned wrote: »

If you were to get a relief milker for those 430 extra milkings you're talking about nearly €15,000 in labour. One of the observations of the rapid expansion of both the Northern Ireland or nz dairy industries was that farmers ended up working longer hours for very little extra income and the same is happening here. While I mightnt be getting a better income at least I've reduced my labour

With a milking season from 14th feb -nov15th it means there's very little input outside of grazed grass so while late calvers have a shorter milking season it's almost entirely produced off grass. Last year on tad it was 65% in 3 weeks and 3% nic after 12 weeks. Oad maybe 75% in 3 weeks with similar nic rates.

Browned, what do you think you're kgms per Ha will be by the end of the year?
I used to follow Stu Hopkins in NZ, can't remember the figure , but I think he was managing a high SR (think it was 4/Ha) on a low cost and achieving great kgms/Ha.

If I was starting again in the morning, it would be a herd of PB jerseys on OAD

browned

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Browned, what do you think you're kgms per Ha will be by the end of the year?
I used to follow Stu Hopkins in NZ, can't remember the figure , but I think he was managing a high SR (think it was 4/Ha) on a low cost and achieving great kgms/Ha.

If I was starting again in the morning, it would be a herd of PB jerseys on OAD

On target for 750 across all ha's this year but with culling over the next few years Id hope to maybe get to 900-1,000. Yeah follow stu as well. Think he's converting to organic now. Id say he has unbelievably fertile land as he uses very little fertiiser. Lot of reclaimed land here so 3/ha would be my realistic limit.

Kinda agree with the pb jerseys. Some of their solids are scary. Add an oad element to them and Id say you'd be selling over 10% solids regurally

kowtow

Can anyone recommend a really in depth reference book on dairy nutrition?

yosemitesam1

kowtow wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a really in depth reference book on dairy nutrition?

Nutrient requirements of dairy cattle by the nrc and Animal Nutrition by Mcdonald would cover nearly everything between them, both can be gotten for free online. Theres a lot on extension.org and proceedings of western Canadian dairy, cornell nutrition and florida dairy nutrition conferences.

kevthegaff

Maybe teagasc research kowtow? Cows coughing here a good bit, sis reckons lungworm. Anyone know relatively cheep product pour in 0 milk withdrawal?

Brown Podzol

kevthegaff wrote: »

Maybe teagasc research kowtow? Cows coughing here a good bit, sis reckons lungworm. Anyone know relatively cheep product pour in 0 milk withdrawal?

Not cheap, but Eprinex will do it. Cows coughing here a couple of weeks ago and Eprinex seems to have sorted it.