2 year old taken by alligator at Disney Land resort Florida hotel

Neyite · 16-06-2016 10:58AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

Ah come on, it's not fair to assume that the resort has a responsibility to terraform the bloody place into a Western-Europe clone.

In Kenya snakes and Monitor Lizards have crossed my path in the hotels, in Egypt it was sharks right up to the beachfront, in New-Zealand a ****ing Emu came crashing through the gardens.

It's not possible to sterlise any given location of the native wildlife, and its just daft to expect it.

That's exactly my point. I don't expect that resorts should fully remove the dangers - they can't. But I do believe that they should make visitors aware of them if they are likely to encounter something that could kill them when they are toddling around the hotel grounds.

When you went away to those places, were there signs, or a tour-guide talk, or a word from the staff to remind you where and when you might encounter them? Were these places aimed at children? Your travels sound amazing

BTW, but kind of the places I'd avoid with a very small toddler, because I'd never get to relax for a minute on holiday, which would make the whole purpose of a holiday for me utterly redundant.

I'd assume that a resort in Kenya might not be all that suitable for a toddler for example, so I would pick a family-friendly location... and what resort markets themselves more family friendly than Disney?

I know sometimes you cant save some people from themselves and that's why we have peanuts with a nut warning on the bag or a sign on microwaves not to dry pets in it, but I really don't think that the parents were negligent here.

HensVassal · 16-06-2016 11:04AM

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Yeah and it'd still be the parents fault in that situation.

People just expect to be babied these days

You know what, if the parents were sitting having a picnic and the toddler was sitting with them under supervision and the kid got struck in the head and killed by a snooker-ball sized meteorite you'd still rack your brains to try and come up with an excuse to make it their fault and blather on about parental responsibility.

Jan Laco · 16-06-2016 11:07AM

5 alligators killed during the search! It's a disgrace. Were they going to kill every alligator if the last alligator was the one to gave killed the kid?

sonofenoch · 16-06-2016 11:11AM

HensVassal wrote: »

He DIDN'T think Florida time runs concurrent with Irish time.

No ...he didn't think it would be dark at 9.30pm in Florida because it's not dark at that time where he lives......and made a point of *rolleyes* with it

reason vs religion · 16-06-2016 11:13AM

sonofenoch wrote: »

Would you let your 2 yr wade unaccompanied through a foot of water on Dalkey beach? forget Florida and aligators for a moment ....would you stand from a distance and do that

"Wade," "unaccompanied." Thank you, you've answered my question. It requires that posters misrepresent the situation to themselves. The father was sufficiently close that he was able to rush to the place and engage with the alligator (I presume that's where he received "lacerations"). The water was also said to be only ankle-deep. So, yes.

razorblunt · 16-06-2016 11:16AM

Jan Laco wrote: »

5 alligators killed during the search! It's a disgrace. Were they going to kill every alligator if the last alligator was the one to gave killed the kid?

I'd imagine from the point of view of checking stomach contents in the eventuality of not finding a body they would need to kill what they find?

wakka12 · 16-06-2016 11:27AM

Jan Laco wrote: »

5 alligators killed during the search! It's a disgrace. Were they going to kill every alligator if the last alligator was the one to gave killed the kid?

They are only going to be looking for alligators big enough to have taken a child that size, and that were in that artificial lake. I doubt there are that many suitably sized alligators in that one lake

scream · 16-06-2016 11:36AM

Sleepy wrote: »

There's a big bloody difference: one is an obvious, advertised and marked Gorilla enclosure, the other is a man-made lake in "The Happiest Place on Earth" that had some warning signs saying "No Swimming".

Now personally, having qualified as lifeguard in my youth, on seeing that sign I'd assume that it was there because the water had heavy plant growth that could entangle swimmers, or that it was a legal requirement because no life-guard was on duty not that the lake was known to be home to predatory wildlife.

TBH, a fence is exactly what's needed here in a resort that's focused on small children: you don't need to even enter the water to be at risk from an alligator, simply being close enough to the edge puts you in danger.

Yes, it's regrettable that a number of alligators have been killed but it's a far greater tragedy that a small child is dead because of the negligence of a multi-billion corporation.

The child was in the water alone. Spin the interpretation any way you like, but a 2 year old child was in the water... alone... in the dark. Sign or no sign that is bad parenting.

scream · 16-06-2016 11:38AM

HensVassal wrote: »

It's only bad parenting to people like you when something goes wrong. It's your defence mechanism to somehow shield yourself from accidents or misfortune.

Shield myself from what? It's not my child. Your post makes no sense whatsoever. People ''shield themselves from accidents'' by not doing bloody stupid things that endanger themselves or their families. As for ''misfortune'' would you ever feck off with that old fashioned nonsense. Jaysus wept.:rolleyes:

Sleepy · 16-06-2016 11:52AM

Oafley Jones wrote: »

This isn't a maintenance issue. But there's some serious issues in the parks at the moment.

Have you seen the size of the property. Updating signs and education are probably better alternative than going all Donald Trump on it.

Updating signs and ensuring the beach is to be regarded as just a nice piece of landscaping to be admired from afar rather than a location for hosting family movies at night would be pretty much the minimum I'd expect after this.

If they want to continue using the beach as a leisure facility, I think fencing would be essential, as stated already, as much to keep kids away from the water as to slow down an alligator attempting to leave it.

Sleepy · 16-06-2016 11:54AM

scream wrote: »

The child was in the water alone. Spin the interpretation any way you like, but a 2 year old child was in the water... alone... in the dark. Sign or no sign that is bad parenting.

You have an odd interpretation of the word "alone".

His father was close enough to the child to intervene in the attack. That's not alone.

pwurple · 16-06-2016 11:55AM

No, I think you're mixed up here somehow.

The child was not alone, he was with his family, and his father was also in the water.

HensVassal · 16-06-2016 12:13PM

CruelCoin wrote: »

Semantics.

There was a sign, they ignored the sign. I'm not going to play the interpretation game with you.

A "don't swim" sign is understandable to all who can read.

What would your argument be if the kid wasn't in the water but close to the water's edge and got attacked (just as likely) by an alligator?

CruelCoin · 16-06-2016 12:18PM

Sleepy wrote: »

Yes. It means the water isn't safe to swim in.

It doesn't mean don't paddle.
It doesn't mean don't build sandcastles at the water's edge.
It doesn't mean alligator infested waters.

Semantics, as i said.

Don't swim isn't mutually exclusive to don't paddle.

CruelCoin · 16-06-2016 12:25PM

Neyite wrote: »

When you went away to those places, were there signs, or a tour-guide talk, or a word from the staff to remind you where and when you might encounter them? Were these places aimed at children? Your travels sound amazing BTW, but kind of the places I'd avoid with a very small toddler, because I'd never get to relax for a minute on holiday, which would make the whole purpose of a holiday for me utterly redundant.

I'd assume that a resort in Kenya might not be all that suitable for a toddler for example, so I would pick a family-friendly location... and what resort markets themselves more family friendly than Disney?

No signs (Kenya isn't exactly renowned for its health and safety laws). I was 8 when i saw that monitor lizard. Had a scar for years where he whipped me with his tail when i wouldn't stop following him (i was ****ing fascinated).
But i'm not going to abdicate the responsibility my parents had for keeping me away from that danger. They should have kept a closer eye on me (even if boys will be boys and boys will wander).

Sleepy · 16-06-2016 12:49PM

CruelCoin wrote: »

Semantics, as i said.

Don't swim isn't mutually exclusive to don't paddle.

Just because you've already said it, doesn't make it any less wrong.

"Don't Swim" is not the same thing as "Don't Paddle" or "Don't Enter the Water".

You can claim all you like that one should interpret the former to mean the latter but it's a pointless argument. They don't mean the same thing in the language that's being communicated in and safety notices, particularly ones regarding potential fatalities, shouldn't need to be interpreted.

Dolbert · 16-06-2016 12:50PM

Imagine if your child was killed in totally freak circumstances, in an incredibly horrific and distressing manner, and you then had to face into "trial by internet" about how it was all your fault, just in case you weren't already having the worst fcuking week of your life. Stop the planet, I want to get off.

donegal. · 16-06-2016 12:55PM

but an alligator in a body of water in florida isn't "totally freak circumstances"

Dolbert · 16-06-2016 12:57PM

donegal. wrote: »

but an alligator in a body of water in florida isn't "totally freak circumstances"

It is in Disneyworld for all anyone knew FFS. And what purpose does berating the parents serve, honestly? Do people have no empathy anymore?

CruelCoin · 16-06-2016 12:59PM

Dolbert wrote: »

It is in Disneyworld for all anyone knew FFS. And what purpose does berating the parents serve, honestly? Do people have no empathy anymore?

As has been said many times now, neither they nor anyone they know is likely to read this.

Nobody is getting berated.

Dolbert · 16-06-2016 01:01PM

CruelCoin wrote: »

As has been said many times now, neither they nor anyone they know is likely to read this.

Nobody is getting berated.

I'm not talking about this thread specifically. They're not reading this, they might be reading the countless comments on other social media. People are dicks.

billie1b · 16-06-2016 01:04PM

Dolbert wrote: »

It is in Disneyworld for all anyone knew FFS. And what purpose does berating the parents serve, honestly? Do people have no empathy anymore?

Well actually alligators are more common in Disney World than you would think. There's a 24h trap team employed by DW and alligators have been known to get in and wander the park loads of times before. This was a freak accident and the 1st such occurrence of a child being taken by a gator on DW grounds into the lagoon but the seeing and spotting of gators at DW grounds is not so freak.

sonofenoch · 16-06-2016 01:09PM

Dolbert wrote: »

I'm not talking about this thread specifically. They're not reading this, they might be reading the countless comments on other social media. People are dicks.

Seen as you started the surmising, they might in other circumstance be making those comments about someone else.....should no one question the irresponsibility of it, no one?

There are people who think it wasn't irresponsible?

Oafley Jones · 16-06-2016 01:34PM

Sleepy wrote: »

Just because you've already said it, doesn't make it any less wrong.

"Don't Swim" is not the same thing as "Don't Paddle" or "Don't Enter the Water".

You can claim all you like that one should interpret the former to mean the latter but it's a pointless argument. They don't mean the same thing in the language that's being communicated in and safety notices, particularly ones regarding potential fatalities, shouldn't need to be interpreted.

This is the thing about CruelCoin. He has...

Read a Rule
Added his own interpretation to it; that isn't supported by the text
Decided that this is the only appropriate reading and that every other reading is wrong
Sat on judgement on those who haven't shared his reading.

The guy needs to reflect on his thought process in a big way.

Dolbert · 16-06-2016 01:35PM

I suppose I don't see the point of putting the boot in where the only purpose is sneering superiority and cruelty, but hey, that's what the internet does best.

via 4 Boy's Mother on FB https://www.facebook.com/4BoysMother/timeline

Parents, I beg of you, stop blaming and shaming other parents.

35 years ago, a mom shopping in a Sears department store went to go look at lamps, and left her six year old with another group of boys, who were all trying out the new Atari game at a kiosk. That boy’s name was Adam Walsh.
30 years ago, an 18 month old toddler playing in her aunt’s backyard fell into a well. Rescuers worked nonstop for 58 hours, finally freeing “Baby Jessica” from the well.

In both cases a tragedy happened, an unforeseen tragic accident took place which left Adam dead, and a toddler fighting for her life deep underground. But they also has something else in common; they had an entire country of moms and dads supporting the grieving parents.

Let me repeat that, EVERYONE SUPPORTED THE RESCUE EFFORTS WITHOUT BLAME. NO BLAME. None. ZERO.

No questions asked, not one single “Where were the parents?” comment. Just a country of other moms and dads, grandmas and grandpas watching in horror as a set of parents, one of their own, went through the unthinkable.

Adam was our son. Jessica was our baby daughter.

THOSE PARENTS WERE US.

Flash forward to 2016, the year of THE PERFECT PARENT.

Yesterday, a two year old boy, splashing in the magical lakefront waters of a Disney Resort, succumbed to the wilds of mother nature. An aggressive alligator scooped him out of the water, right under the watch of his father, who attempted to fight with the alligator to free his baby son. Pure horror. Sheer Terror. Parents who actually had to watch their baby be taken from them, as if they were in some African nature documentary.

A tragic and unforeseeable accident. An accident.

I weep for this mother and father. I am sick with anguish for the pain, agony, misery, and regret pulsating through their viens this very second. And I bet you are too.

But not everyone is.

You see, we now live in a time where accidents are not allowed happen. You heard me. Accidents, of any form, in any way, and at any time, well, they just don’t happen anymore.

Why? Because BLAME and SHAME.

Because we have become a nation of BLAMERS and SHAMERS.

And how are accidents allowed to happen if we can’t blame someone? Surly, they can’t, right? I mean, random acts of nature, unpreventable tragedies, and fateful life changing events that take place in a matter of nanoseconds cannot possibly take place if everyone is being a responsible parent, right?

NOPE.

They can’t, because this country and its population of perfect pitchfork carrying mothers and fathers sitting behind keyboards needs to accuse. They NEED TO BLAME, to disparage, to criticize in every damn way and at every damn corner, the parenting of another.

And when do they really get to lick their blaming chops? When a tragic accident happens. That’s when the pouncing is at its freshest, when raw emotion and ignorance collide, and they dig their word claws in, and take hold of whatever grace these grieving mothers and fathers have left in their souls.

And then they tear it out.

Listen to me very clearly perfect parents, VERY CLEARLY.

I’VE HAD ENOUGH.

I’ve had enough of scrolling through comment threads and seeing over and over again questions like “Where were the parents?” and thoughts like, “This is what happens when you don’t watch your kids.”

I have simply HAD ENOUGH.

I have one question for the blaming and shaming moms and dads. You know the ones who immediately blame the parents, the ones who go on the internet and type comments like, “This is nothing but neglect by the parents,” and “They should have known better. Who was watching that little boy?” and my favorite, “I would never let that happen to my kid.”

Here is my question,

Have you ever been to a child’s funeral before?

I have.

The funeral of a child is an event in life that you never, ever want to experience.

Now let me ask you another question.

In the coming week these parents will fly back to their home in Nebraska without one of their children. They will leave a vacation resort, packing up his Buzz Lightyear pajamas and his favorite blanket, and they will make an excruciatingly difficult journey home. A journey that they never in a million years thought they would be making.

They will meet with a funeral director, pick out a tiny casket, a tiny burial suit, and surrounded by family, they will bury their baby boy.

And they will suffer every single day for the rest of their life.

At the funeral for this two year boy who died in front of his parents, can you do me a favor? Can you walk up to the mother and say the words that you just typed out last week? Can you? Can you greet her, hug her, shake the father’s hand and then say, “ Who was watching that little boy? You should have known better. I would never let that happen to MY child.”

Can you do that for me? I mean, you felt those words so deeply in your heart and soul that you typed them for a million people to read. Certainly you can say it straight to the faces of the people you meant it for, right?

Here, let me help you.

Put away your pitchfork for a moment and try this.

To the mother and father who went for a walk on vacation for the last time with their little boy yesterday, I am deeply sorry that you had to experience the worst kind of tragedy possible, an accident. I grieve with you. Your baby was my baby. Your son was my son. I have nothing but love for you, love to help you get though the pain yesterday, today, and for what is gonna seem like a thousand tomorrows. I wrap my thoughts and prayers around your aching heart and soul. May the God of this universe in some miraculous way bring peace to you and your family.

That is what you say. THAT. And just THAT.

Stop the blaming.

Stop the shaming.

In their darkest hours, can we please just LOVE other parents. Please?

KwackerJack · 16-06-2016 01:37PM

gramar wrote: »

Parents then alerted a nearby lifeguard that an alligator had attacked the boy. Officials estimated it was between four and seven feet long.

That's big two year old. They probably should have asked the parents too, they'd probably have a better idea of the childs size instead of estimating.

You obviously dont have kids and if you do god help them!!

With people like you in the world its no wonder its a messe up place!

KwackerJack · 16-06-2016 01:40PM

Poor little fella....terriried and not knowing what was happening. Hope it ended very quickly for him!

Felt sick to my stomach when I seen the news!

HensVassal · 16-06-2016 01:41PM

sonofenoch wrote: »

No ...he didn't think it would be dark at 9.30pm in Florida because it's not dark at that time where he lives......and made a point of *rolleyes* with it

But YOU said he thought Florida time was concurrent with Irish time, didn't you?

CruelCoin · 16-06-2016 01:42PM

Oafley Jones wrote: »

This is the thing about CruelCoin. He has...

Read a Rule
Added his own interpretation to it; that isn't supported by the text
Decided that this is the only appropriate reading and that every other reading is wrong
Sat on judgement on those who haven't shared his reading.

The guy needs to reflect on his thought process in a big way.

Sleepy wrote: »

Just because you've already said it, doesn't make it any less wrong.

"Don't Swim" is not the same thing as "Don't Paddle" or "Don't Enter the Water".

You can claim all you like that one should interpret the former to mean the latter but it's a pointless argument. They don't mean the same thing in the language that's being communicated in and safety notices, particularly ones regarding potential fatalities, shouldn't need to be interpreted.

If i drove up to the gate of a nuclear power station and beheld a sign that read "do not drive past this point", i wouldn't take that as an invitation to crawl/fly/jump/hop/skip/etc beyond that point.
To anyone not being difficult about it, the meaning is plain and simple: "don't ****ing go past this point". The resort shouldn't have to iterate every possible permutation of getting around it.

CruelCoin · 16-06-2016 01:44PM

Dolbert wrote: »

I'm not talking about this thread specifically. They're not reading this, they might be reading the countless comments on other social media. People are dicks.

That they are, myself included as the mood takes me.

Also, just back from a scrumptious lunch, read in the paper that the body has been recovered.
At least they have that.

2 year old taken by alligator at Disney Land resort Florida hotel

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