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2 year old taken by alligator at Disney Land resort Florida hotel

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Comments

  • #152
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,426 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    That's it they failed at the most important role they'll ever have in protecting that kid, they failed ......I hope monetary compensation is not sought, if it is they'll have lower morals than that aligator

    You really pushing the envelope in reaching new lows aren't you.


  • #153
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    scream wrote: »
    Yes, lets build giant fences/walls around anything potentially dangerous. :rolleyes: It's possible to drown in only 1 foot of water and it's a parents responsibility to take care of their child, particularly around water or any other potentially dangerous area. They let the child go into the water alone and the child is dead. Now a number of alligators have been killed, the child is still dead and more alligators will be killed because those parents failed in their duty as parents.

    Not unlike the situation with a Gorilla being killed because a child fell into the enclosure at a zoo or the lions shot dead because some idiot jumped in where he shouldn't have been. There's a pattern there, humans do stupid stuff and animals get killed as a result. The child is dead and that's awful, hopefully it'll make other parents more aware.
    There's a big bloody difference: one is an obvious, advertised and marked Gorilla enclosure, the other is a man-made lake in "The Happiest Place on Earth" that had some warning signs saying "No Swimming".

    Now personally, having qualified as lifeguard in my youth, on seeing that sign I'd assume that it was there because the water had heavy plant growth that could entangle swimmers, or that it was a legal requirement because no life-guard was on duty not that the lake was known to be home to predatory wildlife.

    TBH, a fence is exactly what's needed here in a resort that's focused on small children: you don't need to even enter the water to be at risk from an alligator, simply being close enough to the edge puts you in danger.

    Yes, it's regrettable that a number of alligators have been killed but it's a far greater tragedy that a small child is dead because of the negligence of a multi-billion corporation.

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  • #154
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,426 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    Sleepy wrote: »

    TBH, a fence is exactly what's needed here in a resort that's focused on small children: you don't need to even enter the water to be at risk from an alligator, simply being close enough to the edge puts you in danger.

    A fence won't stop them. The video before should show you that. They can also burrow under fences and simply chew through them. They often manage to get inside the Parks. Some of the most heavily monitored and secured areas in Florida. There's not a hope you can secure the open outer perimeter of the hotels. And then you've the snakes and microbes etc etc.


  • #155
    thebostoncrab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭thebostoncrab


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Yes, it's regrettable that a number of alligators have been killed but it's a far greater tragedy that a small child is dead because of the negligence of a multi-billion corporation.

    Hang on, how is this Disneys fault? Alligators are everywhere in Florida and it's impossible to remove all of them from an area near or on a body of water. They already try to capture and remove as many 'gators as possible, so they are doing their part. It is the unfortunate part of being in Florida; you will have alligator risks no matter what. Plus, they have no swimming signs up and when we visited we were warned in person several times to avoid water.

    This is a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to the family, but Disney are not at fault here


  • #156
    323
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭323


    Neyite wrote: »

    They.were.in.Disneyfcuking.world. The only alligators I associated with Disney was in Peter Pan or the like. And for Disney not to have a single sign up in any of their resorts warning about alligators for the people visiting from all over the world, when there are alligators in the resorts is pretty short sighted of them, and cost this family something that can never be replaced.

    But go ahead and pile the blame for this on the parents. :rolleyes:

    The irony of it all, after generations of Disney portraying all nature to be cute and friendly and cuddly, the truth sticks its head up in their back yard. Nature bites.

    The kids parents are not without blame, its Florida FFS.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



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  • #157
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,426 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    thebostoncrab wrote: »
    Hang on, how is this Disneys fault? Alligators are everywhere in Florida and it's impossible to remove all of them from an area near or on a body of water. They already try to capture and remove as many 'gators as possible, so they are doing their part. It is the unfortunate part of being in Florida; you will have alligator risks no matter what. Plus, they have no swimming signs up and when we visited we were warned in person several times to avoid water.

    This is a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to the family, but Disney are not at fault here


    Like all deaths on Disney's property I expect they'll settle out of court. Those signs will also be updated to remove any ambiguity fairly sharply.


  • #158
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    scream wrote: »
    Stop getting your panties in a bunch, the news reports are that the child was alone in the water while the rest of the family were on the shore. That's bad parenting and yes, the family are probably devastated, at least they're alive to feel devastated, we can only hope that the child had a quick death.

    It's only bad parenting to people like you when something goes wrong. It's your defence mechanism to somehow shield yourself from accidents or misfortune.


  • #159
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    gctest50 wrote: »
    They were in fcuking.Florida, home to 1.3 million alligators

    Second to this, if i were to travel to Iceland for one of those "meet Santa at his wee grotto" kind of things, you can bet yer arse i'd be swiveling for Polar Bears (are there polar bears in Iceland? Whatever, you get my point)


  • #160
    Tipperary Fairy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Tipperary Fairy


    Neyite wrote: »
    Where were the signs? There were none on the resort - except no swimming. Nothing whatsoever about alligators. The kid was not swimming. He had his feet in the water but could just as easily have been standing beside the water when he was snatched because alligators are pretty fast on beaches too.

    So why were the hotel staff herding families onto a beach, in the dark, to watch a movie if the place was crawling with predators? Because it wasn't deemed unsafe by the very people who worked in that resort and who live in that area.

    But you expect parents from Nebraska to have some more knowledge about a species native to Florida than the very folk who live and work around these resorts because they have a kid. Now that's the kind of thinking that is stupid.

    Parenting means you have a kid. It does not mean that you automatically become David Fcuking Attenbourgh.

    They.were.in.Disneyfcuking.world. The only alligators I associated with Disney was in Peter Pan or the like. And for Disney not to have a single sign up in any of their resorts warning about alligators for the people visiting from all over the world, when there are alligators in the resorts is pretty short sighted of them, and cost this family something that can never be replaced.

    But go ahead and pile the blame for this on the parents. :rolleyes:

    Oh the rollyeyes are out, the sign of a good argument.

    Thanks for pointing it out, but I already knew what the signs say when I wrote my post.

    What exactly would you assume seeing a sign that says no swimming? Would you ignore it and let your little boy into the water?

    What would you assume is wrong that someone is warning you not to get into the water, if it doesn't mean that there's some sort of potential danger?


  • #161
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    thebostoncrab wrote: »
    Hang on, how is this Disneys fault?
    Failure to display adequate warning signs.
    No reasonable attempt made to prevent small children (their key market demographic) from entering the water.
    Organising a family event at the waterside of a lake they knew to be inhabited by alligators.
    Oafley Jones wrote:
    A fence won't stop them. The video before should show you that. They can also burrow under fences and simply chew through them. They often manage to get inside the Parks. Some of the most heavily monitored and secured areas in Florida. There's not a hope you can secure the open outer perimeter of the hotels. And then you've the snakes and microbes etc etc.
    A fence would have prevented the toddler from wandering into the water.
    A fence two meters back from the waters edge would greatly reduce the chances of an alligator attack and maintaining the fence from burrowing / animal damage wouldn't be a major issue in a park with as many staff as Disney would have.

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  • #162
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    You really pushing the envelope in reaching new lows aren't you.

    In that case they'd be seeking compensation for failing to adhere to the rules (aka, don't get in the ****ing water).

    They'd be seeking to profit from their own childs death due to their own mistake.


  • #163
    Neyite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,946 ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    gctest50 wrote: »
    They were in fcuking.Florida, home to 1.3 million alligators



    Ohh, I missed that video in the ante-natal classes. :rolleyes:

    Disney World. In a resort aimed at children. On a pretend beach of a pretend lake where staff have told you to bring your children to congregate in the dark. The staff had no reason to think that they were basically leaving out bite sized snacks for Alligator Tea-Time so why should visitors from out of state think differently, especially when there was not a single "beware of the Alligator sign".

    I know there are sharks in the sea Egypt. I don't expect to find them in the pool of the hotel though. So I'm sure these parents knew there were alligators in Florida but assumed that they would be safe in a resort, and if they weren't, that there would be warning signs. When I went to Thailand, there were signs in our hotel to remind us to use mosquito repellent and outlining that dusk was mosquito dinner time. Staff reminded us too. Because they wanted us to enjoy our stay and knew that this kind of stuff is not everyday habit for us. In Rome, there are signs up on public transport to remind you of pick-pocketing. Because on my local bus here in Ireland there isn't a pickpocketing culture so it didn't occur to me when getting a bus in Rome and being distracted looking out the window - until I saw the signs. In Turkey there are signs up not to put toilet paper down the loo, and not to drink the tap water. Because visitors forget themselves occasionally and need reminding of the dangers that could harm them in unfamiliar surroundings.

    Disney didn't put signs up because they didn't want to scare people off visiting or staying in a resort where you could potentially encounter a predator big enough to kill a human. Disney wanted to pretend that it was all nice and safe for kids when it really isn't and couldn't be. They didn't want anything to interfere with the illusion of DisneyWorld they were presenting to visitors.

    And now this happened.


  • #164
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    I'll save all my sympathy for a baby who needlessly and recklessly lost his life in the most terrifying of ways ......9.30 at night, in a swamp 2 yrs old!

    Are you going for the drama award?


  • #165
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,426 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    In that case they'd be seeking compensation for failing to adhere to the rules (aka, don't get in the ****ing water).

    They'd be seeking to profit from their own childs death due to their own mistake. If anything would be low, it would be them if they went that route.

    Where is the rule that says not get in the water?


  • #166
    reason vs religion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 346 ✭✭reason vs religion


    It seems really clear cut to me that, as has already been said very well, a family at a Disney World resort, ushered out to the lakeside to watch a film and fireworks, where there is no warning of alligators or staff patrolling the shore, need not expect that there is a risk that their child who is standing ankle-deep in the water no more than a few feet from the edge is at risk of an alligator attack.

    Can't understand how some people posting here think the parents are in any way culpable, never mind fully.


  • #167
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Neyite wrote: »
    Ohh, I missed that video in the ante-natal classes. :rolleyes:

    Disney World. In a resort aimed at children. On a pretend beach of a pretend lake where staff have told you to bring your children to congregate in the dark. The staff had no reason to think that they were basically leaving out bite sized snacks for Alligator Tea-Time so why should visitors from out of state think differently, especially when there was not a single "beware of the Alligator sign".

    I know there are sharks in the sea Egypt. I don't expect to find them in the pool of the hotel though. So I'm sure these parents knew there were alligators in Florida but assumed that they would be safe in a resort, and if they weren't, that there would be warning signs. When I went to Thailand, there were signs in our hotel to remind us to use mosquito repellent and outlining that dusk was mosquito dinner time. Staff reminded us too. Because they wanted us to enjoy our stay and knew that this kind of stuff is not everyday habit for us. In Rome, there are signs up on public transport to remind you of pick-pocketing. Because on my local bus here in Ireland there isn't a pickpocketing culture so it didn't occur to me when getting a bus in Rome and being distracted looking out the window - until I saw the signs. In Turkey there are signs up not to put toilet paper down the loo, and not to drink the tap water. Because visitors forget themselves occasionally and need reminding of the dangers that could harm them in unfamiliar surroundings.

    Disney didn't put signs up because they didn't want to scare people off visiting or staying in a resort where you could potentially encounter a predator big enough to kill a human. Disney wanted to pretend that it was all nice and safe for kids when it really isn't and couldn't be. They didn't want anything to interfere with the illusion of DisneyWorld they were presenting to visitors.

    And now this.

    Ah come on, it's not fair to assume that the resort has a responsibility to terraform the bloody place into a Western-Europe clone.

    In Kenya snakes and Monitor Lizards have crossed my path in the hotels, in Egypt it was sharks right up to the beachfront, in New-Zealand a ****ing Emu came crashing through the gardens.

    It's not possible to sterlise any given location of the native wildlife, and its just daft to expect it.


  • #168
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,426 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    Sleepy wrote: »
    A fence would have prevented the toddler from wandering into the water.
    A fence two meters back from the waters edge would greatly reduce the chances of an alligator attack and maintaining the fence from burrowing / animal damage wouldn't be a major issue in a park with as many staff as Disney would have.

    Maintenance is a major issue at WDW currently. They can barely change a light bulb. This is the second death of a toddler at WDW within a year. The last drowned after managing to get past the newly erected fence that surrounded the Art of Animation swimming pool.


  • #169
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    Where is the rule that says not get in the water?

    Semantics.

    There was a sign, they ignored the sign. I'm not going to play the interpretation game with you.

    A "don't swim" sign is understandable to all who can read.


  • #170
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I saw on some wildlife program that gators out number people in florida, 3 : 1.
    it's common to start your car and find them underneath or in your pool.

    As we don't live there, it may be difficult to understand but it might be taken for granted, where there's open water, there's a potential threat.

    I'm only just tuned into this threat so forgive the obvious question but are there "beware alligator" signs in this lake?


  • #171
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    scream wrote: »
    Yes, lets build giant fences/walls around anything potentially dangerous. :rolleyes: It's possible to drown in only 1 foot of water and it's a parents responsibility to take care of their child, particularly around water or any other potentially dangerous area. They let the child go into the water alone and the child is dead. Now a number of alligators have been killed, the child is still dead and more alligators will be killed because those parents failed in their duty as parents.

    Not unlike the situation with a Gorilla being killed because a child fell into the enclosure at a zoo or the lions shot dead because some idiot jumped in where he shouldn't have been. There's a pattern there, humans do stupid stuff and animals get killed as a result. The child is dead and that's awful, hopefully it'll make other parents more aware.

    What a load of sanctimonious horseshit


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  • #172
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    rusty cole wrote: »
    I'm only just tuned into this threat so forgive the obvious question but are there "beware alligator" signs in this lake?

    Just "don't swim" or something to that effect.


  • #173
    cowboyBuilder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    His photo is on the news sites, heartbreaking stuff ..


  • #174
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I've just read the poor little kid was 10 feet out in the water. You'd never expect it in a Disney Resort. I certainly wouldn't be expecting a child to be snatched by an alligator at Disney anyway. His poor parents.


  • #175
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Semantics.

    There was a sign, they ignored the sign. I'm not going to play the interpretation game with you.

    A "don't swim" sign is understandable to all who can read.
    Yes. It means the water isn't safe to swim in.

    It doesn't mean don't paddle.
    It doesn't mean don't build sandcastles at the water's edge.
    It doesn't mean alligator infested waters.

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  • #176
    gramar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,045 ✭✭✭✭gramar


    rusty cole wrote: »
    I saw on some wildlife program that gators out number people in florida, 3 : 1.
    it's common to start your car and find them underneath or in your pool.

    As we don't live there, it may be difficult to understand but it might be taken for granted, where there's open water, there's a potential threat.

    I'm only just tuned into this threat so forgive the obvious question but are there "beware alligator" signs in this lake?

    Get yourself up to speed here....

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/15/alligator-two-year-old-child-disney-world-hotel-florida


  • #177
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    Maintenance is a major issue at WDW currently. They can barely change a light bulb. This is the second death of a toddler at WDW within a year. The last drowned after managing to get past the newly erected fence that surrounded the Art of Animation swimming pool.
    So you're agreeing with me that the maintenance staff at WDW are negligent?

    Interesting that they considered the swimming pool worthy of fencing off but not the alligator infested lake. Eh?

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  • #178
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    Sure things happen, but surely you take into account the environment and factor it in unless you're stupid and I mean really stupid like a poster on here who thought Florida time runs concurrent with Irish time

    He DIDN'T think Florida time runs concurrent with Irish time.


  • #179
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,426 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Semantics.

    There was a sign, they ignored the sign. I'm not going to play the interpretation game with you.

    A "don't swim" sign is understandable to all who can read.

    It's not semantics. You've decided that the entire of humanity should read "No swimming" as not to enter the water. That's spectacularly assured of you. People in this thread have said they'd take it literally, but here you are forcing your interpretation on everyone. You seem incapable of understanding that. It's quite bizarre.


  • #180
    sonofenoch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,925 ✭✭✭sonofenoch


    reason vs religion wrote: »
    It seems really clear cut to me that, as has already been said very well, a family at a Disney World resort, ushered out to the lakeside to watch a film and fireworks, where there is no warning of alligators or staff patrolling the shore, need not expect that there is a risk that their child who is standing ankle-deep in the water no more than a few feet from the edge is at risk of an alligator attack.

    Can't understand how some people posting here think the parents are in any way culpable, never mind fully.

    Would you let your 2 yr wade unaccompanied through a foot of water on Dalkey beach? forget Florida and aligators for a moment ....would you stand from a distance and do that


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  • #181
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,426 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    Sleepy wrote: »
    So you're agreeing with me that the maintenance staff at WDW are negligent?

    This isn't a maintenance issue. But there's some serious issues in the parks at the moment.
    Sleepy wrote: »
    that they considered the swimming pool worthy of fencing off but not the alligator infested lake. Eh?

    Have you seen the size of the property. Updating signs and education are probably better alternative than going all Donald Trump on it.


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