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Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

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Comments

  • #692
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Just seems so unlikely. I am hoping that a forensic analysis of Cookes life around that time will unearth some leads. I also think/hope that others will come forward.
    Cooke seems so chaotic that I am certain he will have left a trail somewhere.


  • #693
    Kamili
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    Samaris wrote: »
    It does seem that the Gardai kept the bag carefully and didn't get it get badly contaminated.

    I have my doubts about that, from photos of the bag in the media, it was handled without gloves at the time and kept in nothing more than a plastic bag.

    R44-479.jpg


  • #694
    Bebopclown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 137 ✭✭Bebopclown


    I see they want more witnesses to come forwards. Considering how badly the last witness was treated on social media and online, I'd say any others would be too scared.


  • #695
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Bebopclown wrote: »
    I see they want more witnesses to come forwards. Considering how badly the last witness was treated on social media and online, I'd say any others would be too scared.

    Yep, very first post in this thread refers to the most recent witness to come forward as a
    Stupid B1tch >:-(

    Can totally understand why someone would think twice about coming forward after seeing the trial by digital media thats gone on in recent days/weeks.


  • #696
    Kamili
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    There is digging already started for Philip

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/lonely-field-in-mountains-could-hide-philip-cairns-grave-34806144.html
    The Irish Independent can reveal that the corner of an isolated field, which overlooks the capital, was once the site used by paedophile Eamon Cooke to transmit a signal for his pirate radio station.
    A number of witnesses have told gardaí that they saw Cooke using a digger on the property more than 30 years ago when he positioned a radio signal repeater.

    It has been claimed that the serial child abuser concealed a container 20ft underground on the site, where he also once kept a caravan.


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  • #697
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,876 ✭✭✭take everything


    Kamili wrote: »
    There is digging already started for Philip

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/lonely-field-in-mountains-could-hide-philip-cairns-grave-34806144.html

    It does sound like that is where the poor child is buried. Anyone know what the state of a body would be after 30 years.

    I hope the family get some peace from this.


  • #698
    Kamili
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    It would depend on the state of the soil, acidity, how wet it is, and how much oxygen there is.

    There could be little left bar the bare bones.. or it could be well preserved.
    It also depends how the body was buried too.

    So many variables.


  • #699
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Kamili wrote: »
    There is digging already started for Philip

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/lonely-field-in-mountains-could-hide-philip-cairns-grave-34806144.html

    Quite a detailed account from Garda sources indicating that more information has been received including some about the placing of the bag. I hope that this case is very near its end for the sake of the Cairns family. I hope we are not just having a detailed briefing that will be added to the list of briefings.


  • #700
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    I don't understand why the Gardai are solely briefing the Irish Independent on this case seemingly on a daily basis. Where are the official statements? Where's the press conference?
    I would much prefer to hear about the progress on this case through some official sources rather than third hand through some random Irish Independent journalist that appears to have a source.
    It's a bit weird, no?


  • #701
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,763 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    LorMal wrote: »
    I don't understand why the Gardai are solely briefing the Irish Independent on this case seemingly on a daily basis. Where are the official statements? Where's the press conference?
    I would much prefer to hear about the progress on this case through some official sources rather than third hand through some random Irish Independent journalist that appears to have a source.
    It's a bit weird, no?

    A press conference was held at Tallaght Garda station yesterday so a lot of the recent articles seem to be coming from that.


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  • #702
    Dolbert
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Dolbert


    Another article from Broadsheet today:

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/16/a-cold-case-of-confusion/


  • #703
    Kamili
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    The more I read the more I think Cooke is being scapegoated to satisfy some need or other.

    Developments, such as digging, and the bag thing are coming too close to each other, too soon after he died.

    Anyway I don't want to start another argument here so the above is just my opinion. I am confused about the whole case.


  • #704
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Dolbert wrote: »
    Another article from Broadsheet today:

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/16/a-cold-case-of-confusion/

    It is only when these events and briefings and claims are parsed and examined and investigated and placed side by side that we see the ongoing confusion in this case. Maybe a great deal of the statements in that article can be explained but I am left with the same sickening feeling that the case struggles on in the same shambolic fashion. A statement of absolute clarity from the Gardai is needed at some stage soon on these matters: only if the remains are found will there be some closure for the family. Whether the remains would close off the investigation or point in a new direction would be a complicating matter.

    I saw a picture on twitter of the little shrine that Mrs Alice Cairns has in her home. Heartbreaking and angering that after all our knowledge of what went on in this country we still have this pain.


  • #705
    Allyall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    Kamili wrote: »
    The more I read the more I think Cooke is being scapegoated to satisfy some need or other.

    Developments, such as digging, and the bag thing are coming too close to each other, too soon after he died.

    Anyway I don't want to start another argument here so the above is just my opinion. I am confused about the whole case.

    The bag thing hasn't changed. That's always been the case. It was found a week later and (eventually) protected to stop contamination. Now that the tests are possible, they may try and match Cooke to any DNA found on the bag. If they do find his DNA, it will be a step further.

    They hadn't thought that they had reason to dig anything up before now, although they knew he was a paedophile, they may not have thought he was a murderer.
    Now that his name has been linked with killing Philip Cairns, and it is known that he buried a container somewhere shortly after he went missing, it seems the obvious next step to look for that container.


  • #706
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Jesus, that article shows how confused the whole thing is. This was my point about the Gardai briefing the Indo journalist - the level of misinformation is appalling and the reports are poorly written, ambiguous and contradictory. The people who suffer are the Cairns family.

    The Garda Press Office should make official statements only and ensure that individual detectives stop briefing individual journalists. It leads to a complete shambles and surely ends up impacting negatively on the investigation.

    And that Irish Inspector Clouseau (O'Carroll) should probably stop the guess work.


  • #707
    Kamili
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    Allyall wrote: »
    The bag thing hasn't changed. That's always been the case. It was found a week later and (eventually) protected to stop contamination. Now that the tests are possible, they may try and match Cooke to any DNA found on the bag. If they do find his DNA, it will be a step further.

    They hadn't thought that they had reason to dig anything up before now, although they knew he was a paedophile, they may not have thought he was a murderer.
    Now that his name has been linked with killing Philip Cairns, and it is known that he buried a container somewhere shortly after he went missing, it seems the obvious next step to look for that container.

    As I mentioned previously, I have my doubts about how the preserved it, handled it with no gloves and put it in a plastic bag.

    As for the digging thing, they were always digging, in several locations too, so they had more than enough reason to dig, nothing has changed there.
    They dug up suspected sites as recently as 2009.

    They haven't proven Cooke is associated with Philip outside of he may have known him. Doesn't mean he killed him.


  • #708
    Allyall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    Kamili wrote: »
    As I mentioned previously, I have my doubts about how the preserved it, handled it with no gloves and put it in a plastic bag.
    If Cookes DNA is on the bag, that will be a huge step.
    Kamili wrote: »
    As for the digging thing, they were always digging, in several locations too, so they had more than enough reason to dig, nothing has changed there.
    They dug up suspected sites as recently as 2009.

    They haven't proven Cooke is associated with Philip outside of he may have known him. Doesn't mean he killed him.

    They have never (to my knowledge) dug up anything related to Cooke. He has been described as a very clever person, so he may even have been the type to let people see him digging in one place but bury something elsewhere as to detract any future efforts to accuse or arrest him.

    Whatever the case may be, I don't believe he is being made a scapegoat. At the very least, investigating that scumbag may shed some light on other cases and may ruffle some feathers elsewhere.
    It should be mandatory when someone is found guilty of abusing more than one child, that their history is investigated thoroughly.


  • #709
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Kamili wrote: »
    The more I read the more I think Cooke is being scapegoated to satisfy some need or other.

    Developments, such as digging, and the bag thing are coming too close to each other, too soon after he died.

    Anyway I don't want to start another argument here so the above is just my opinion. I am confused about the whole case.
    I'm not sure if he's being scapegoated. Once someone dies, so too do their rights and with them a lot of barriers to getting stuff done. Warrants, forcible entry, etc etc etc all become a lot easier to obtain when you're not worrying about trampling on constitutional rights or trying to gather evidence before a prosecution.

    If the location of this alleged container is still within Cooke's estate, then getting a court order to go in and dig up the whole thing is a million times easier now that Cooke is dead.

    It confuses me though that a number of people reported seeing him bury the container, but they're only getting around to it now. Did the Gardai sit on it, or did people themselves sit on it until the Cooke/Cairns link was publicised?


  • #710
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    seamus wrote: »
    It confuses me though that a number of people reported seeing him bury the container, but they're only getting around to it now. Did the Gardai sit on it, or did people themselves sit on it until the Cooke/Cairns link was publicised?

    My understanding is that a number of people saw him with a digger on that land - not that they saw him bury a container.

    Although burying a container is not a one man job so there may well be people out there who know more about it.


  • #711
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    intheclouds wrote: »
    My understanding is that a number of people saw him with a digger on that land - not that they saw him bury a container.

    Although burying a container is not a one man job so there may well be people out there who know more about it.

    Wasn't the buried container something to do with the pirate station? If so no reason to dig it up until now. For the record I doubt he would of placed anything incriminating in that container.


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  • #712
    Keane2baMused
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Keane2baMused


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    Wasn't the buried container something to do with the pirate station? If so no reason to dig it up until now. For the record I doubt he would of placed anything incriminating in that container.

    Dont forget, this was a man that for all intents and purposes wasn't the full shilling and seemed to believe he was invincible.


  • #713
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Even putting the school bag back at scene of the abduction is completely nuts. It is narcissistic, bizarre and chaotic behaviour - much like those serial killers who like to leave clues behind or write letters to the police (eg zodiac killer). Almost like they want to get caught.
    This strikes me as completely in line with the personality traits of Cooke. They get a thrill from operating in plain sight - just like he did with his radio 'sermon' (which I remember hearing at the time) proclaiming his innocence during the Radio Dublin mutiny.
    I really think he will have left some evidence somewhere.


  • #714
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,097 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    LorMal wrote: »
    Jesus, that article shows how confused the whole thing is. This was my point about the Gardai briefing the Indo journalist - the level of misinformation is appalling and the reports are poorly written, ambiguous and contradictory. The people who suffer are the Cairns family.

    The Garda Press Office should make official statements only and ensure that individual detectives stop briefing individual journalists. It leads to a complete shambles and surely ends up impacting negatively on the investigation.

    And that Irish Inspector Clouseau (O'Carroll) should probably stop the guess work.

    Do you think some of these leaks might be an attempt to muddy the water/ impede the investigation? People saying now that Cooke is dead, other victims might have the courage to come forward, but what if he had accomplices that are still alive? I'm not convinced Cooke wasn't part of a ring. I recall McArthur, as mad as he was, spoke about paedophile rings involving well known and well- heeled people in Dublin. Of course none of this means Cooke killed Philip Cairns, but i think this man has certainly taken other secrets to his grave.


  • #715
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    LorMal wrote: »
    Even putting the school bag back at scene of the abduction is completely nuts. It is narcissistic, bizarre and chaotic behaviour - much like those serial killers who like to leave clues behind or write letters to the police (eg zodiac killer). Almost like they want to get caught.
    This strikes me as completely in line with the personality traits of Cooke. They get a thrill from operating in plain sight - just like he did with his radio 'sermon' (which I remember hearing at the time) proclaiming his innocence during the Radio Dublin mutiny.
    I really think he will have left some evidence somewhere.

    Just curious. What makes you say it was placed at the scene of the abduction? to go to that lane way would have been out of Philips way en route to school.


  • #716
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    MonsterCookie wrote: »
    Just curious. What makes you say it was placed at the scene of the abduction? to go to that lane way would have been out of Philips way en route to school.

    Sorry - I should say I don't know the geography very well. I just assumed it is close to where Philip was taken


  • #717
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    nacho libre wrote: »
    Do you think some of these leaks might be an attempt to muddy the water/ impede the investigation? People saying now that Cooke is dead, other victims might have the courage to come forward, but what if he had accomplices that are still alive? I'm not convinced Cooke wasn't part of a ring. I recall McArthur, as mad as he was, spoke about paedophile rings involving well known and well- heeled people in Dublin. Of course none of this means Cooke killed Philip Cairns, but i think this man has certainly taken other secrets to his grave.

    I always think the simplest most straightforward solution is the most likely. I think any ring would have been compromised by this stage - the truth would have emerged over 30 years.


  • #718
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    As I have read it, it's not that it was out of his way - it was his usual route - just the bag was on the less likely side of the road.


  • #719
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    LorMal wrote: »
    Sorry - I should say I don't know the geography very well. I just assumed it is close to where Philip was taken

    Yeah. It's close enough alright. I saw a head line this week saying the bag was found on Ballyroan road which is not correct. The lane way is Maybe a couple hundred metres away but not much more. I guess your point still stands though ie placing it back there was a bit mad!


  • #720
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    Samaris wrote: »
    As I have read it, it's not that it was out of his way - it was his usual route - just the bag was on the less likely side of the road.

    It kinda is out of his way if he was going back to school the most direct way. Unless he was diverting to meet a friend or go to he shops say.


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  • #721
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    MonsterCookie wrote: »
    It kinda is out of his way if he was going back to school the most direct way. Unless he was diverting to meet a friend or go to he shops say.

    Ah, fair enough, I don't know the area at all. I thought it had been said that it was his usual way back.


This discussion has been closed.
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