Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

Bannasidhe · 14-06-2016 08:59PM

Sand wrote: »

Can you stop with the backseat moderation?

.

Report me if you have a problem.

Manic Moran · 14-06-2016 09:02PM

Without particularly supporing Abuses position (It is my position that if one can choose between a pistol and a rifle, the rifle will always win, barring very specific circumstances such as convenience or the ability to use only one hand), I would observe that Gandalf is talking out his posterior with regards to ballistics. It may seem counter-intuitive, but due to the very high velocity of .223/5.56mm rounds, they are more inclined to fragment when they impact a drywall, of which US homes are usually made, than pistol rounds which stay in one piece and will keep going. As a result, SWAT teams moved away from pistol-calibre sub-machineguns such as the MP-5 and moved to 5.56mm carbines such as the M4.

wakka12 wrote: »

So easier to just not make any laws is that what you're saying? Australia and England show that strict gun laws work.

Well, that's actually debated. University of Melbourne couldn't actually find a causation between the turning in of about a third of the estimated firearms in Australia and the reductions in firearms violence. (Just because they were banned didn't mean everyone turned them in. Similar non-compliance was observed in Canada and a number of US States). It was observed that there was a general downward trend to begin with due to other policies put in place by the government.

https://www.melbourneinstitute.com/downloads/working_paper_series/wp2008n17.pdf

Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears, the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.

AbusesToilets · 14-06-2016 09:03PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I disagree.

I have just come from a vigil where the names of 49 murder victims were read out to find the merits of various weapons being disgusted in great detail.

It does not add to the discussion.
It is in extremely poor taste and grossly insensitive.

With respect, many commentators are painting this as a gun control issue. That is a valid item to be discussed and debated in the context of the situation.

Royal Legend · 14-06-2016 09:03PM

seemingly he "Scoped" the nightclub on a number of occasions

Starting to sound like he had a problem with his own sexuality, a homosexual muslim is not a great place to be, maybe he was jilted by some gay ex-lover

Silly question, but if he died while carrying out this as some kind of jihad, if he was a gay muslim, does he also get the 72 virgins? and will they be male???

Gatling · 14-06-2016 09:04PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I disagree.

I have just come from a vigil where the names of 49 murder victims were read out .

Maybe if your posting from an emotional place maybe take a break and take a little time .

Not trying to mod but i find posting while emotional can lead to making posts not necessarily intended .
.but that's just me

Bannasidhe · 14-06-2016 09:05PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

With respect, many commentators are painting this as a gun control issue. That is a valid item to be discussed and debated in the context of the situation.

For pages and pages?

Would it not be more fitting to open a new thread?

stoplooklisten · 14-06-2016 09:07PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Nobody is empathising with him. He is as homophobic as any gay hating straight person and as ****ty a person as they come, regardless of what his orientation was.

'I don't want to say I can understand the gunman. But I kind of can'
Justin Datz, 33, an accountant who works at Parliament House gay bar in Orlando, has been telling Harriet Alexander about his own experiences of religion and sexuality.

"I don't want to say I sympathise with Mateen," he said, following reports that Mateen was a gay Muslim furious at his own sexuality. "But I know a few people raised in that kind of environment....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/orlando-gunman-was-a-regular-at-lgbt-nightclub-pulse-before-atta/

Royal Legend · 14-06-2016 09:08PM

Royal Legend wrote: »

seemingly he "Scoped" the nightclub on a number of occasions

Starting to sound like he had a problem with his own sexuality, a homosexual muslim is not a great place to be, maybe he was jilted by some gay ex-lover

Silly question, but if he died while carrying out this as some kind of jihad, if he was a gay muslim, does he also get the 72 virgins? and will they be male???

News now reporting that he was on a gay dating site as well

Apologies for being a bit obtuse in earlier post, it sounds like this was a very mixed up man mentally, both sexually and religiously, and used religion to condone the terrible act he carried out.

Jack Killian · 14-06-2016 09:08PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Without particularly supporing Abuses position (It is my position that if one can choose between a pistol and a rifle, the rifle will always win, barring very specific circumstances such as convenience or the ability to use only one hand), I would observe that Gandalf is talking out his posterior with regards to ballistics. It may seem counter-intuitive, but due to the very high velocity of .223/5.56mm rounds, they are more inclined to fragment when they impact a drywall, of which US homes are usually made, than pistol rounds which stay in one piece and will keep going. As a result, SWAT teams moved away from pistol-calibre sub-machineguns such as the MP-5 and moved to 5.56mm carbines such as the M4.

Well, that's actually debated. University of Melbourne couldn't actually find a causation between the turning in of about a third of the estimated firearms in Australia and the reductions in firearms violence. (Just because they were banned didn't mean everyone turned them in. Similar non-compliance was observed in Canada and a number of US States). It was observed that there was a general downward trend to begin with due to other policies put in place by the government.

https://www.melbourneinstitute.com/downloads/working_paper_series/wp2008n17.pdf

Maybe if everyone had turned them in then it would have worked ?

I cannot for the life of me see a point in guns anyway; why create something that lets you take a cowardly shot from a distance ?

If you want to fight someone, walk up and fight them. Man to man.

Instead we have a pissing contest as to who has bigger guns or missiles.

Moronic!

Sand · 14-06-2016 09:14PM

Royal Legend wrote: »

News now reporting that he was on a gay dating site as well

Apologies for being a bit obtuse in earlier post, it sounds like this was a very mixed up man mentally, both sexually and religiously, and used religion to condone the terrible act he carried out.

Not entirely surprising - a common theme in a lot of the Jihadis were they were 'moderate' Muslims - drank alcohol, took drugs, enjoyed a party, engaged with westerners, etc. Then at some point they become 'born again'. It offers an out for losers to become noble warriors on a mission for God. This guy doesn't seem to have been happy in his life, he doesn't seem to have fitted in...martyrdom, respect, acceptance - all these things are powerful motivators.

Sand · 14-06-2016 09:16PM

Jack Killian wrote: »

I cannot for the life of me see a point in guns anyway; why create something that lets you take a cowardly shot from a distance ?

I guess at some point some nerd got involved in an argument with the medieval equivalent of Connor McGregor and decided he wasn't going to win a fist fight?

Matt Markinson · 14-06-2016 09:24PM

So this murderer was in fact most likely gay and the weapons were bought over the counter and held legally.

So much the the sacred cows and agendas being pushed here.

Royal Legend · 14-06-2016 09:26PM

RoboKlopp wrote: »

This story is getting more weird. Just reading he claimed to be a member of Hezbollah as well as claiming links to Al Queda. Then he claims links to ISIS.

Obviously not a clue as both the former oppose ISIS afaik.

I doubt any of these three organizations will be laying claim to this ******* killing spree, seeing as he was gay.

20Cent · 14-06-2016 09:30PM

Out of interest what would someone be hunting with an assault rifle?

Are the bunny rabbits armed over there now.

RDM_83 again · 14-06-2016 09:31PM

People really seem to be completely ignoring the fact he was apparently scoping out Disneyland, if he had been in a slightly different mood the day he snapped we would we be talking about how Radical Islam hates Disney? Yes its a homophobic attack but its so much more than that.

Rock Concerts
Sports Events
Public Transport
Police
Off duty soldiers
Nightclubs

All of those have been targets to because they are symbols of western decadence and soft targets.

Its revealing to think how the response to Brussels and Paris happened, there was huge sympathy for those countries and cities and their citizens but it wasn't framed as an attack on Parisian Rockers or Random Brussels people, it was framed as an attack on our society/way of life.
We should have sympathy for the Gay community* at a traumatic time but like previous attacks is it necessary for any group to "own" this tragedy when the choice of target was likely multifactoral.

*thats not offensive its accurate not too use the acronym, and a read of the too long list of victims names tells you that, and its pretty likely that he didn't give a **** about Lesbians and Transgender if he was a self loathing male homosexual

Gatling · 14-06-2016 09:36PM

20Cent wrote: »

Out of interest what would someone be hunting with an assault rifle?

Are the bunny rabbits armed over there now.

There actually sold as a sporting rifle just they happened to be based on a military design from the Vietnam era .
Except they are semi automatic vs law enforcement /military select fire rifles .

Light, easy to handle plenty of personalisation options available

AbusesToilets · 14-06-2016 09:40PM

20Cent wrote: »

Out of interest what would someone be hunting with an assault rifle?

Are the bunny rabbits armed over there now.

Pretty any game you can think of. Given the ready availability of caliber options, you can hunt anything from rabbits to Moose with an AR pattern rifle.

Matt Markinson · 14-06-2016 09:42PM

I see the gun lovers are swarming around in here with hardons, even the fact they were legally held weapons bought over the counter doesn't seem to spoil their erections.

Jack Killian · 14-06-2016 09:44PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Pretty any game you can think of. Given the ready availability of caliber options, you can hunt anything from rabbits to Moose with an AR pattern rifle.

Are ye not capable of killing animals cleanly with a single shot ?

ancapailldorcha · 14-06-2016 09:47PM

Mod: Guys, please take the in depth discussion of firearms to another thread or to the Shooting forum.

unseenfootage · 14-06-2016 09:48PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

People really seem to be completely ignoring the fact he was apparently scoping out Disneyland, if he had been in a slightly different mood the day he snapped we would we be talking about how Radical Islam hates Disney? Yes its a homophobic attack but its so much more than that.

Rock Concerts
Sports Events
Public Transport
Police
Off duty soldiers
Nightclubs

All of those have been targets to because they are symbols of western decadence and soft targets.

Its revealing to think how the response to Brussels and Paris happened, there was huge sympathy for those countries and cities and their citizens but it wasn't framed as an attack on Parisian Rockers or Random Brussels people, it was framed as an attack on our society/way of life.
We should have sympathy for the Gay community* at a traumatic time but like previous attacks is it necessary for any group to "own" this tragedy when the choice of target was likely multifactoral.

*thats not offensive its accurate not too use the acronym, and a read of the too long list of victims names tells you that, and its pretty likely that he didn't give a **** about Lesbians and Transgender if he was a self loathing male homosexual

On the channel 4 news there was a black lady who said that a bunch of them were held in the toilet. The shooter asked her how many black people were there. Another black guy said that there were six. The shooter then said that black people have suffered for so long in USA and he won't kill the six. The Black lady also said that the shooter said that he is massacring these people because America is attacking his country. In the 911 call he mentioned Syria and Iraq.

Seems like this is a complex situation and difficult to analyse. Lots of noise and disinformation being spread as well.

Edit: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-survivor-patience-carter-gunman-tried-to-spare-black-people/

ancapailldorcha · 14-06-2016 09:59PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mod: Guys, please take the in depth discussion of firearms to another thread or to the Shooting forum.

Mod: Posts deleted. Any more may result in mod action.

stoplooklisten · 14-06-2016 10:04PM

But this time he called out and asked if there were any black people hiding behind the doors.
Carter, who is African-American, was too afraid to respond, but another black person did, giving an affirmative.
Surprisingly, that caused Mateen to put away his weapon.
'I don't have a problem with black people,' Mateen reportedly said. 'This is about my country. You guys suffered enough.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3641598/Surviving-friend-teen-murdered-Orlando-massacre-sobs-guilt-recounts-shooter-asked-black-people-bathroom-stall-hiding-spare-having-suffered-enough.html#ixzz4Bado6vLk
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So we was a racist too

Grayson · 14-06-2016 10:05PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I am pretty sure suicide vests, gym bags with IEDs in them and car bombs are illegal almost everywhere. Doesn't stop terrorists from using them. Same goes for guns, there will always be guns available somewhere, legal or illegal.

I'm literally copying and pasting this from a few pages pack.

I know a bloke who sells weed, that's about it. If I wanted to get a gun to commit a massacre it'd be a long hard slog. I could try the dark web but what are my chances of getting a gun shipped to me, especially with ammo. And even if I got a gun, it'd be a small one because the chances of getting an assault rifle into the country are slim as ****. Finally I'd probably have to pay a ****ing fortune for it.

If I was a criminal who wanted it to rob people it'd be a bit easier since I'm assuming I'd have contacts. but it'd also be risky and costly. I'd only get them if I really needed them and they'd be worth their weight in gold. I certainly couldn't get a gun and use it to knock over the local shop.

In the US however there are loads of guns floating around so you can get shot by a junkie. Pretty much any criminal can get a gun. Here it's only the career criminals in gangs. You need to be part of a larger enterprise because only they have the financial resources and contacts to get them.

unseenfootage · 14-06-2016 10:09PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

But this time he called out and asked if there were any black people hiding behind the doors.
Carter, who is African-American, was too afraid to respond, but another black person did, giving an affirmative.
Surprisingly, that caused Mateen to put away his weapon.
'I don't have a problem with black people,' Mateen reportedly said. 'This is about my country. You guys suffered enough.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3641598/Surviving-friend-teen-murdered-Orlando-massacre-sobs-guilt-recounts-shooter-asked-black-people-bathroom-stall-hiding-spare-having-suffered-enough.html#ixzz4Bado6vLk
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

So we was a racist too

Dave Chappelle has got it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32OX1E59nA8

Annasopra · 14-06-2016 10:14PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

what are the gay community going to do about the rampant homophobia within their own community?

The Christians have been berated for not voting in gay marriage in thier grandparents time, yet the biggest homophobes are part of the group shouting at the Christians. :eek:

Nice bit of victim blaming going on

"oh actually he was secretly one of yours, proper straight men never do these things because they're too busy being straight and manly, and *real* men wouldn't something so cowardly"

stoplooklisten · 14-06-2016 10:18PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nice bit of victim blaming going on

"oh actually he was secretly one of yours, proper straight men never do these things because they're too busy being straight and manly, and *real* men wouldn't something so cowardly"

nothing secret about it it would appear now.

Who said anything about proper straight men or real men? What are you on about with that one?

Barry Badrinath · 14-06-2016 10:49PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nice bit of victim blaming going on

"oh actually he was secretly one of yours, proper straight men never do these things because they're too busy being straight and manly, and *real* men wouldn't something so cowardly"

You could have made a really good point but then you discredited yourself by the makey uppy quote which was designed to rile the male heterosexual community.

Why is that?

markupmales · 14-06-2016 10:59PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

"oh actually he was secretly one of yours, proper straight men never do these things because they're too busy being straight and manly, and *real* men wouldn't something so cowardly"

I think I'll post something similar insulting LBGTs and see what happens.
Not.

Richard Hillman · 14-06-2016 11:08PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

But this time he called out and asked if there were any black people hiding behind the doors.
Carter, who is African-American, was too afraid to respond, but another black person did, giving an affirmative.
Surprisingly, that caused Mateen to put away his weapon.
'I don't have a problem with black people,' Mateen reportedly said. 'This is about my country. You guys suffered enough.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3641598/Surviving-friend-teen-murdered-Orlando-massacre-sobs-guilt-recounts-shooter-asked-black-people-bathroom-stall-hiding-spare-having-suffered-enough.html#ixzz4Bado6vLk
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

So we was a racist too

Oh, don't worry. They will still try and find a way to lay the guilt on straight, white males.

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

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