Should we have a cannabis board?

Inspector Gadget

...we can state the following points that seem to cover what everyone's saying:

1. It's a legal minefield. Especially considering that people don't tend to read the forum rules anyway.
2. Even if you assume that everyone will be nice and uphold any and all rules/laws, there is also the fact that there's very little that's currently legal that can be discussed on these boards concerning that specific subject - the supply of such material would be exhausted quite quickly, only to rehashed (I know, I know, sorry :rolleyes: ) over and over again.
3. It would draw the "moral superiority"/"outraged" muppets (the type who act first and think later) faster than an open-air orgy on O'Connell St. (as regards which O'Connell Street, well, take your pick).

There's a line from Dilbert that accurately captures dealing with these "outstanding members of the community" (who, to my mind, are quite often "outstanding" because they can't sit down and shut up):

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

It might also cause you no end of grief if/when you go to renew the domain registration for boards.ie - unless ye're looking for a reason? The P45 crowd, being a .net (IIRC), won't have this problem as they're not dealing with those lovely people in the IEDR...

Just my 2c...
Gadget

tHE vAGGABOND

Obviously I misunderstood you again

obviously you did...

GreenHell

I don't have a problem with people smoking or doing the hell whatever they want with their lives, personnally I don't think a Cannabis board would be the best idea, I mean if your wondering about the legality of it you got politics, if you have a problem with it and your looking for advice you got personnal issues. They boards are there to discuss the topic of all drugs.

Also have board labelled "Cannabis" or something along those lines is wide open to spamming no matter how many mods there are, plus it gives a bad impression of boards along with the impression that cannabis has, yes I know this is a stereotype or whatever but you will more than likely turn some potential readers of the boards away.

tHE vAGGABOND

What GreenHell said

Shad0r

I smoke from time to time and would be very pro legalisation/ decriminalisation of cannabis so from my point of view I think its a great idea.

I do think however that perhaps a more broad "drugs" forum would probably be more appropriate, unless the specific purpose of the board is similar to that of Ireland Off Line, i.e. lobby group for the decriminalisation of the drug.

Either way these boards are supposed to be for discussing society and life. Drugs are a fairly big part of life and society in general whether you choose to do them or not or whether your prepared to admit it or not.

Just my two cents.

Hobbes

Originally posted by Shad0r
Drugs are a fairly big part of life

Yours prehaps.

bonkey

Originally posted by GreenHell
I don't have a problem with people smoking or doing the hell whatever they want with their lives, personnally I don't think a Cannabis board would be the best idea, I mean if your wondering about the legality of it you got politics, if you have a problem with it and your looking for advice you got personnal issues. They boards are there to discuss the topic of all drugs.

Yes, but by this logic, we could wrap everything into one board called "general" and get rid of all these silly partitions we already have. Yes, I know that this is a bit facetious, but seriously - the logic has always been about whether or not a topic generates enough traffic to be worth splitting off to a board of its own. Witness the CS board which, IIRC, sprang from the Half-Life board. Why? I mean - CS is a Half-Life mod - there was already a place to discuss it. Surely we didnt need that.

In the same vein, both of the boards you mention as appropriate alternatives are, in fact, amongst the newest boards. Why were they spun off from boards which already carried their content?

I take the point you're making, but I think that deVore's idea was that there is sufficient interest to make this worthwhile as a dedicated board. If there isnt, then you fold it again.

Also have board labelled "Cannabis" or something along those lines is wide open to spamming no matter how many mods there are,

Really? I coulda sworn that the rampant spamming on the CS board more or less disappeared when it was made "register to post" - which is what several people have suggested would be the obvious first step in creating a cannabis board. I see no evidence to believe that it would suffer significant spamming. At worst, it would involve that the admins/mods not approve anyone until they have a "proven presence" on boards.ie or something like that. How many people are going to involve themselves in multiple discussions, posting intelligently, just so that they can spam the cannabis forum as soon as they are allowed?

plus it gives a bad impression of boards along with the impression that cannabis has, yes I know this is a stereotype or whatever but you will more than likely turn some potential readers of the boards away.

No more than are turned away by the cliqueishness of the place, the hostility towards new members who have opinions which said cliques take exception to, or the almost-constant bitching wars which seem to go on amongst various individuals.

And yes, it is a stereotype. One which I would see a dedicated board going a long way to breaking, if it was managed right. Keep muppetry to a minimum, try and encourage intelligent discussion, and have genuinely useful information.

When I was growing up, my school gave me the "drugs are baaad, mkay?" lecture. My mum gave me the "Some expert on the Gaybo show was on about how cannabis is so bad". Not in one place did anyone actually present a balanced view, or even suggest that their POV was not flawless. Personally, I would applaud a boards system which had the guts to stand up and dare to discuss such topics openly and honestly, with advocates from both sides being more than welcome to state their case in a civilised manner. Anyone who ignores it because it breaks their stereotyped image is probably the type of person who would wouldnt feel at home on these boards anyway.

I think it can be done, and I think it would be a great idea. I think it could be hugely beneficial to some. Yes, if mis-manged it will be a disaster, but thats an outside chance. I would imagine that should deV decide to run with this idea, that he will be keeping an eye on its infancy (at least) and as the owner/overfiend here, he can pull the plug at any stage.

jc

Coyote

Just an idea maybe the board could be made private. But there could be a list of privet boards that people can join if they wanted to. That way it would just be on people’s private forum lists, if they wanted to read and post they can.
I do think that it could be a good board for discussion, but even a forum like the way CS is setup might be a bit too much for parents and others. This board could be over 18 only and could not be read by under 18 as it would be a private forum. You would need to reg and agree that you are over 18 with a proven no Spam posts about the boards.


Coyote

Cake Fiend

I recommend a private board, with a moderator who's reasonably clued up as to the legal ins and outs regarding the subject - that way any posts that could potentially get boards.ie in trouble can be edited swiftly.

As for the idea of an all-encompassing 'drugs' board - I'm not so sure that would be a good idea; one step at a time methinks.

zenith

Among the topics that this board could discuss are:

The absurdity of a law that has made at least 30% of under thirties criminals. And many, many of their parents.

How a law that draws the legal system into disrepute is damaging to our shared social system.

The medical uses of cannabis, including pain relief in chemotherapy and multiple sclerosis.

The depoliticisation of young people caused by a patriarchial attitude to their wellbeing.

The tobacco lobby: cannabis as a gateway drug to cigarette smoking.

How to score safely.

Why the cops are not out catching real criminals.

An open forum for people to assess their consumption, and for them to possibly honestly check if their consumption is causing a problem.

Taking the distribution of the drug out of the hands of criminals, and imposing a fair tax on consumption.

Reducing the mystique of the drug by reducing the 'cred' of the behavior.

Open consumption of cannabis can only lead to the hidden problems that it is causing now becoming more obvious to the people that can help: discuss.

Psychatric problems that can be caused by smoking draw to excess: how to spot the problems, and how to deal with them.

The link between prolonged cannabis smoking and infertility.

The social aspect of cannabis smoking: jolly good fun, or it does nothing for me. Yes, there are people who it does nothing for.

Would you prefer your child to smoke a j, or drink a flagon of cider? Which of the two drug suppliers has state sanction, and which is most likely to abuse the situation?

Drug tests: is it going to be genetic profiling for employees next?

---

I think it's a good idea, in the same way that an abuse (as in sexual) abuse board might be helpful to some.

However, I honestly think that the age/mental age profile of boards is a little young for this. Maybe in a couple of years.

However, I'd be delighted to help if necessary.

Shad0r

Originally posted by Hobbes


Yours prehaps.

I resent that comment. You dont know anything about me or my life.

My comment was made as a general statement about life and society. Would you agree that most people in their lives have to make a decision whether they want to take drugs or not?

Whether its a serious drug or just nicotine I would say that everyone faces that decision. The point I was trying to make was that in my opinion a board that is available for people to discuss that decision and then at the very least make an informed decision is a good thing.

I very seriously doubt that having a board on drugs is likely to promote the use of said drugs.

end of the day - if you support it or not - its illegal..

if you want to provide a forum for drug dealers then go ahead, I would be against it myself...

Yes its illegal to posses and/or sell drugs. Its not illegal to talk about it. Its very defintely not illegal to try to explain to people the dangers before they do the drugs and thereby hopefully persuade them to not do them.

I see this forum as an opprtunity to educate people about drugs instead of pretending that they dont exist. It would NEVER be a place for drug dealers to push their drugs. I would suggest having at least two mods to make sure that there is almost constant moderation of the forum to ensure this.

Clinical Waste

Hehehehehe................hehehehehehe...................hehe........he........hehehehehehe...........

tHE vAGGABOND

good list of possible questions zenith

but, the baddie had to come up..

How to score safely.

zenith

Eh, it's not a where to score, it's a how to score _safely_.

Not a baddie. You know, don't mess with bad people. Tell your friends where you're going. Know what you're buying. Don't carry too much cash. etc.

GreenHell

Bonkey I would agree with you that if a canabis board was created and well managed to discuss the issues devore has highlighted would a good idea, personnally I don't think creating a seperate board about canabis is necessary but then thats just my opinion perhaps I'm just underestimating how popular this board could be.

Drawing comparsions with the creation of the cs board; CS had gone so big in its own right and is now a solo game it did deserve a board of its own and such was the popularity if it as a topic of discussion on the half life board it was obvious that a seperate cs board would be successful, plus the TF eads wanted it as badly as the CS ers Looking at the society boards the drug threads don't compare to cs a topic of discusion. Anyway I'm guessing it comes down to that pole weather or not a cannabis board is created so that will eventually show peoples opinion to creating this board.

Final thought
If a board is to be created and debate created it shouldn't be private.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Shad0r

Originally posted by GreenHell
Final thought
If a board is to be created and debate created it shouldn't be private.

I'm with GH on that one. I dont think it should be private but it should absolutly have the same admitance system that the CS board has. i.e. you have to be ok'd by a mod of the forum before you can post. I think thats paramount tbh.

This system worked to cut out spam and muppetry on the CS forum so I dont see why it wouldnt work on a drugs forum.

Dustaz

Its probably not a good idea.

Number 1, Humanities, PI and Afterhours are hardly bursting with threads on Cannabis. Most topics that do come up are merely re-hashed (BA-DUM!) replies of previous topics. Plus the fact that nearly all the issues can be discussed on said boards.

2. The whole media thing. Bonkey, i think your being a little pedantic talking about sueing for libel. If theres one thing we should all know its that the media (and in particular tabloids) will jump on anything to whip up a little fuss. They would not have to libel boards.ie to do this:

SHAME OF IRISH WEBSITE THAT OFFERS DRUGS INFO TO KIDS AS YOUNG AS 13!!

Nothing illegal in that, completly factual and sure to get mary on the phone to gerry ryan. Of course, theres a school of thought that says all publicity is good publicity.

The exact same argument could be used to shut down the PI, Humanities and After Hours boards but if were all being honest,, Drugs are a pretty hot potato of an issue.

If it was a Pro-Legalisation group asking for a board (like Ireland Offline) then no problem, its a more valid reason. Untill mods are constantly editing drug posts on the above forums, i dont think its really worth it tbh.

zenith

Anybody who swallys scare stories like that (the Interweb, it's not just about porn now, but they have drugs there too) is probably too worried about "dem black ni*gers coming here, taking our jobs", to really do anyting about it.

Remember: red top newspapers == entertainment. Give the rest of the media some credit: if they discuss it, they'll discuss it: I'm sure boards will be given the chance to retort.

A discussion forum is not like running a crack house. Sadly.

In addition, some of us value our free speech, and would like to rattle a few cages so that we might keep our liberties.

Remember, people died for the freedoms that you're so scared to exercise.

Think, man, think! Don't just sit there, consume and - eventually - die.

Inspector Gadget

Originally posted by zenith
Anybody who swallys scare stories like that (the Interweb, it's not just about porn now, but they have drugs there too) is probably too worried about "dem black ni*gers coming here, taking our jobs", to really do anyting about it.

Remember: red top newspapers == entertainment. Give the rest of the media some credit: if they discuss it, they'll discuss it: I'm sure boards will be given the chance to retort.

A discussion forum is not like running a crack house. Sadly.

In addition, some of us value our free speech, and would like to rattle a few cages so that we might keep our liberties.

Remember, people died for the freedoms that you're so scared to exercise.

Think, man, think! Don't just sit there, consume and - eventually - die.

As with many things in life, it's not that simple. This is good old Catholic Ireland we're talking about here, and there are still a worrying amount of people who're more willing to express what they think is the "the majority opinion" than they are to go off and grow one of their own.

You'll see people posting stuff like "this is a disgrace", "I'm writing to my TD", etc. etc. and even if after all this time nothing legal or publically negative becomes of it it will still be a nightmare to moderate.

I also have no doubt that people (probably kids) will post silly attention-grabbing stuff that'll land them-what-own-the-place in hot water.

I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole - hell, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole lashed to a bargepole. It's not a moral objection to the subject matter, it's a moral objection to listening to whingers who reckon it's a bad idea.

Gadget.

zenith

Ah, it's always been like that around here, and some people might knock it, and it might be hard, so it's not worth doing. Glad we sorted that out.

Ireland is the old sow that eats her farrow still, it seems.

DeVore

Grrrrrrrr. Zenith knows all the buttons to push with me, dont you.

Publish and be damned? You'd know a thing or three about that

I'm torn about this. Not for some of the reasons given but just that I think its a topic that should be discussed in the open and I HATE the curtailing of the free expression of ideas.
Even ones I totally disagree with, oddly enough.

Hmmm, I have to be sure that if we set something like this up we arent going to jeapordise what we have built here...
I'm not one to back off a fight but I dont want to standing in a house full of rubble either...

DeV.

MiCr0

then don't create a board
but make it known that legitimate decussion is fine as long as its within reason

PhilipMarlowe

I earlier suggested that the posts be "pre-approved", not quite like the CS forum where the posters are pre-approved, but here they individual posts would be queued until they were given the all-clear by a moderator(s).

Although this would leave absolutely no chance of muppetry, it might also create a problem in that if anyone were to take issue with something that was allowed, your case of “real-time nature.. can’t be held responsible.. etc.” would no longer wash.

Shad0r

Originally posted by zenith
Anybody who swallys scare stories like that (the Interweb, it's not just about porn now, but they have drugs there too) is probably too worried about "dem black ni*gers coming here, taking our jobs", to really do anyting about it.

Remember: red top newspapers == entertainment. Give the rest of the media some credit: if they discuss it, they'll discuss it: I'm sure boards will be given the chance to retort.

A discussion forum is not like running a crack house. Sadly.

In addition, some of us value our free speech, and would like to rattle a few cages so that we might keep our liberties.

Remember, people died for the freedoms that you're so scared to exercise.

Think, man, think! Don't just sit there, consume and - eventually - die.

What Zenith said.

MiCr0

nm

BuffyBot

Originally posted by DeVore

I'm torn about this. Not for some of the reasons given but just that I think its a topic that should be discussed in the open and I HATE the curtailing of the free expression of ideas.
Even ones I totally disagree with, oddly enough.

Hmmm, I have to be sure that if we set something like this up we arent going to jeapordise what we have built here...
I'm not one to back off a fight but I dont want to standing in a house full of rubble either...

DeV.

Old cliche: Better safe than sorry?

A pre-approved board would filter out the muppets, but it's still likely that it could draw unwanted attention on boards.ie......

Still personally think it's a bad idea, but thats just an opinion

Inspector Gadget

Originally posted by DeVore
I'm torn about this. Not for some of the reasons given but just that I think its a topic that should be discussed in the open and I HATE the curtailing of the free expression of ideas.
Even ones I totally disagree with, oddly enough.

An honourable sentiment, sir. Unfortunately, a rare one...

Originally posted by DeVore
Hmmm, I have to be sure that if we set something like this up we arent going to jeopardise what we have built here...
I'm not one to back off a fight but I dont want to standing in a house full of rubble either...

Herein lies the problem. Providing a forum for a subject matter a chunk of the people of the island (and beyond) feel strongly negatively about (whether that sentiment is justified with facts or not) is like Russian Roulette, except you have no idea how many chambers the gun has, or (for that matter) how many of them actually contain bullets. You can try to guesstimate it, but that's not much good to you when the gun's pointed at your head...

If you go forward with this, you really don't know what kind of enemies you make; after all, in my experience and through my own observations, even calm, rational people can completely "bitflip" if you come across the wrong topic of conversation, or touch the wrong "nerve".

(It's a sequence of words I never, ever, imagined I'd type, but...) I'm with Buffyboy on this one (at least, in terms of "better safe than sorry"). One forum could, in more than theory, jeopardise the whole shebang. Remember what you said, DeVore, about some people whose business you were chasing (with Spin) reacting less than positively to you when they realised that you ran boards.ie? Can you imagine how that'll go if you launch this forum and negative media coverage ensues? The majority of the kind of people whose business eventually pays your wages don't want to deal with "controversial" outfits/companies/people - they want the minimum of hassle. And who'd blame them?

Gadget

DeVore

Old cliche: Better safe then sorry?

Thats true but I also believe you live on your feet rather then die on your knees.

Still thinking hard about it...

DeV.

bonkey

Originally posted by DeVore

Still thinking hard about it...

Here's some more food for thought.

Precedence

Discussions have arisen before (and recently) about the subject of sex. Typically, adult-themed boards have been turned down for various reasons - policing of content and access being the big bad mostly.

If you create a canabis board (which I am in favour of), you must also consider the precedent which you are setting in the way in which you do it - boards will no longer be all "clean and above board", but rather will have some potentially controversial content. Once you've done this, it becomes harder to deny the creation other boards on grounds of "unsuitable content".

Well - maybe it doesnt. You the boss - you dont have to justify decisions or even make consistent ones

Still - something to think about.

jc