Do you have any sympathy for George Best?

Pighead

As the legendary George Best lies in a hospital bed fighting for his life Pighead asks do you have any sympathy for the man.
He is revered and adored by millions but has tested peoples patience with his apparent disregard for life.The man was a wonderful footballer. That cannot be denied. But in recent years he has become an embarrassment to himself and his family and many cannot understand the attention given to him by the media. In 2002 he was given a brand new liver and a chance of life that many are denied.instead of seizing this opportunity to start afresh he returns to the behaviour that destroyed his health in the first place. The man is a lost cause.

George turned to drink in the 60's when he suddenly he had all this wealth and stardom- this is not to be criticised, alcohol is an addiction that loads of people from his era have suffered from and is apparently a very hard monkey to get off your back
So do you feel sorry for the man or are you angry with his apparent disregard for life?

Mr.Nice Guy

Yes I have sympathy for him. The man is a legend. I hope he pulls through.

The General

He's had a lot to deal with, i'll give him that, but he still fu(ked everything up

The General

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Yes I have sympathy for him. The man is a legend. I hope he pulls through.

:rolleyes:

yermandan

I agree with you 100% pighead.George Best has shown an utter disregard for his own life and although I do not know him personally, the constant media attention over his career has brought to light every single time that he has fallen off the wagon and chose to systematically [sp??] ruin his own life.
Feeling total disregard for someone as poorly as him is really difficult for me as empathy is one of my core beliefs and values.But seeing what he has done to himself makes it extremely hard to feel sorry for him.
Its his family I pity.

Dan:cool:

The General

i thought it said george bush oops

Mr.Nice Guy

The General wrote:

:rolleyes:

Fabulous.

Rb

no I don't have any sympathy for him tbh, he brought it on himself and is now paying the price.

0utshined

No,

He got a second chance when he got a new liver a few years ago. If he had not taken it then someone else would have had it. He had the chance to make a go of it again but didn't. It is tragic that he is dying and I feel sorry for his family but no sympathy for him.

fade2black

Some people are born with a weakness for attention and spotlight. Some actors/rock stars/comedians/footballers can walk home after a gig or match and avoid the groupies and after show drinks...for others it aint so easy. It's easy to say that he threw his life away but like any addiction, drinking is an illness and is something that can only be understood by the victim. He was adored as a young footballer and that was his curse in the end.

George Best, like all alcoholics, deserves sympathy in my opinion.

Mossy Monk

yes i do sympathise with him. the man has an obvious addiction and obviusly doesnt have the strength to quit it. an addiction is a horrible thing for anyone to have

Pighead

Yes but George knows he has an addiction.And if he knows this, which he must, unless he's mentally challenged, then that means he is consciously making himself this way. YHe is destroying his liver, entirely of his own free will, and therefore must be willing to accept the consequences. If you keep making these decisions, if you don't get help, either professional or from getting off your arse and going to the gym, you are a drain on society.

These are the people I don't really have time for. It annoys me to see people who sit on their arse, like George, and whinge about how fcuked up their situation is when they did it themselves. George's not really doing anything to help his situation, he's just taking a happy-super-funtime shot every day to delay his problem.
I prefer to remember the way he mesmerised Benfica, regarded as one of the finest teams in Europe, by scoring twice in the opening 10 minutes as United become the first team to inflict a European defeat on the Portuguese side in the Stadium of Light.Fantastic

nesf

Pighead wrote:

Yes but George knows he has an addiction.And if he knows this, which he must, unless he's mentally challenged, then that means he is consciously making himself this way. YHe is destroying his liver, entirely of his own free will, and therefore must be willing to accept the consequences. If you keep making these decisions, if you don't get help, either professional or from getting off your arse and going to the gym, you are a drain on society.

These are the people I don't really have time for. It annoys me to see people who sit on their arse, like George, and whinge about how fcuked up their situation is when they did it themselves. George's not really doing anything to help his situation, he's just taking a happy-super-funtime shot every day to delay his problem.
I prefer to remember the way he mesmerised Benfica, regarded as one of the finest teams in Europe, by scoring twice in the opening 10 minutes as United become the first team to inflict a European defeat on the Portuguese side in the Stadium of Light.Fantastic

You have no understanding of addiction Pighead. It's not a matter of rational choice we're talking about here.

Yes, it is possible for an alcoholic to get off the drink but it isn't as simple as them stopping choosing to stay on it.

Mossy Monk

Pighead wrote:

Yes but George knows he has an addiction.And if he knows this, which he must, unless he's mentally challenged, then that means he is consciously making himself this way. YHe is destroying his liver, entirely of his own free will, and therefore must be willing to accept the consequences. If you keep making these decisions, if you don't get help, either professional or from getting off your arse and going to the gym, you are a drain on society.

These are the people I don't really have time for. It annoys me to see people who sit on their arse, like George, and whinge about how fcuked up their situation is when they did it themselves. George's not really doing anything to help his situation, he's just taking a happy-super-funtime shot every day to delay his problem

you really dont have a clue do you?

Pighead

nesf wrote:

You have no understanding of addiction Pighead. It's not a matter of rational choice we're talking about here.

Yes, it is possible for an alcoholic to get off the drink but it isn't as simple as them stopping choosing to stay on it.

nesf of course I am aware that getting off the drink isn't as simple as the addict stopping choosing to stay on it.All i'm saying is that to a certain extent we believe that alcoholism and drug addiction are diseases because we want to believe it. It makes us feel better to think that our problems are beyond our control.

We desperately search for something outside of ourselves to blame things on. And todays PC society enables us to do that.It's easier for addicts to accept their behavior by blaming it on the demon drink and denying their own participation it. But the problems and the solutions are all within us.

Sandals

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Yes I have sympathy for him. The man is a legend. I hope he pulls through.

Oh he always pulls.

Pighead

Mossy Monk wrote:

you really dont have a clue do you?

Usually a statement like this is followed up by some reason why you are of that opinion.Mossy stop being a lazy poster and get them fingers typing.Pighead has checked the charter and it is quite alright to submit a post with more than one line in it.Good lad.

nesf

Pighead wrote:

nesf of course I am aware that getting off the drink isn't as simple as the addict stopping choosing to stay on it.All i'm saying is that to a certain extent we believe that alcoholism and drug addiction are diseases because we want to believe it. It makes us feel better to think that our problems are beyond our control.

We desperately search for something outside of ourselves to blame things on. And todays PC society enables us to do that.It's easier for addicts to accept their behavior by blaming it on the demon drink and denying their own participation it. But the problems and the solutions are all within us.

Addictions are choices made by the addict. It stops being a choice and becomes a need when one is addicted to something.


It's not todays PC society that has sympathy for addicts or offers them some understanding of what they are going through. It has nothing to do with being PC. Alcohol is addictive. It's not that a person chooses to drink a lot when they are an alcoholic.

Life is not that simple. I'll assume you don't know many people who were/are alcoholics? Or if you do, you have never understood it.

funky penguin

Sympathy.....

I had no sympathy for the people that died in the attack on the WTC, the people dying in Iraq, the Tsunami, the "No'lans" flooding or the earthquake in the middle east, so I'm definately not going to sympathise with him.

It's not that I don't care, I just can't seem to sympathise.....or care.

I'm a lost cause. (gimme some sympathy quick!)

WellyJ

Atari Jaguar?

Canis Lupus

George best.

Could kick a ball in the general direction he wanted it to go therefore he is a legend.... indeed. He didn't invent a cure for cancer, he isn't even a member of the medical profession who can diagnose such a thing. He didn't solve third world debt nor bring about world peace. He didn't invent anything nor did he discover anything. But yet he is called a legend. That drives me insane. It drives me insane that he gets described as such in the papers and so many people hero worship him. Dammit hero worship a doctor or jeez, even a teacher. They are real "legends" and will do more for any of us than some alcoholic fu<ktard.

The greatest thing George ever did was to rob a potential liver from someone more deserving and to squander it.

But ultimately I just don't care.

Seraphina

Canis Lupus wrote:

The greatest thing George ever did was to rob a potential liver from someone more deserving and to squander it.

totally agree, no one else with a history of drinking like his would have been given a liver transplant. he got it because he was rich and famous, and someone who would have appreciated it probably died for lack of a liver.

****in disgraceful i think, i have no sympathy.

Mr.Nice Guy

Canis Lupus wrote:

George best.

Could kick a ball in the general direction he wanted it to go therefore he is a legend.... indeed. He didn't invent a cure for cancer, he isn't even a member of the medical profession who can diagnose such a thing. He didn't solve third world debt nor bring about world peace. He didn't invent anything nor did he discover anything. But yet he is called a legend. That drives me insane. It drives me insane that he gets described as such in the papers and so many people hero worship him. Dammit hero worship a doctor or jeez, even a teacher.

Definition of a legend - "a famous or remarkable person or event."

He is certainly one of the most remarkable sportsmen of all time.

Canis Lupus wrote:

They are real "legends" and will do more for any of us than some alcoholic fu<ktard.

A man with a disease is a 'fu<ktard'? Dear oh dear...

Canis Lupus wrote:

The greatest thing George ever did was to rob a potential liver from someone more deserving and to squander it.

But ultimately I just don't care.

You have an awful lot of hate in you for someone who doesn't care.

Canis Lupus

Disease.... HA... rotfl. Poor Georgie maybe if he gets better we should give him another liver?

and to correct my post. I don't care if he dies or not.

Hugh Hefner

I pity him but I don't have any sympathy for him. It's the same way I feel towards serial killers drug dealers.

Pepe LeFrits

I have sympathy for him. Not because he was a great footballer, but because he's a human being and what he's going through now is very sad regardless whether he brought it on himself or not.

Spare a thought for his family.

chelle2ie

I have to agree, his abilities as a footballer have nothing to do with it. I have sympathy for him and his family, however I am very confused as to how someone with such an abvious addicition that he couldn't control should be given a liver? Surely it would have been better for him long-term to be left to die back a few years instead of prolonging it so he could drink himself to death all over again?

Pighead

nesf wrote:

Addictions are choices made by the addict. It stops being a choice and becomes a need when one is addicted to something.


It's not todays PC society that has sympathy for addicts or offers them some understanding of what they are going through. It has nothing to do with being PC. Alcohol is addictive. It's not that a person chooses to drink a lot when they are an alcoholic.

Life is not that simple. I'll assume you don't know many people who were/are alcoholics? Or if you do, you have never understood it.

Of course alcohol is addictive!Of course its hard to give up!I have never disputed that fact.What i'm saying is that when a man is given a second chance and is told "Right george,any more drinking and you're gonna die"he has to be seen to be making some sort of attempt to sort himself out.George Best has shown time and time again that he has not got the character to even try and beat his addiction

The reason that the disease concept is so popular is because of greed and money. Alcohol and substance abuse treatment programs like The Priory are predominantly private agencies that are run for profit. They invented the disease concept and you nesf has bought into it, hook, line and sinker. What makes matters worse is that there is so much competition among treatment centers that they will say practically anything to keep up their share of the market. They air commercials filled with misinformation designed to scare parents into thinking that drug and alcohol use is such a serious problem that their offspring will probably die unless they get treatment.

Necronomicon

Canis Lupus wrote:

Disease.... HA... rotfl. Poor Georgie maybe if he gets better we should give him another liver?

Yeah, alcohol addiction is a disease. Have you ever had an addiction? I'm guessing not by the ignorant tone of your posts. You speak as if someone can just click their fingers and be over it.
Secondly, the man is a legend. You may not have any interest in soccer, or even sport for that matter, but George Best is a sport legend and always will be. I'm not saying that should earn him extra sympathy, but you seem angry that the man has a huge fan-base. Grow up.

As for my own opinion, I was pretty disappointed when he went back on the drink after his liver transplant, and I understand where people are coming from when they talk about his apparent disregard for life, but the man is a human being. Celebraties aren't invulnerable, they are just as prone to error as the rest of us. I think any person who struggles all their life with any kind of addiction, be it alcohol, smoking, whatever, deserves sympathy.
And if you can't feel sympathy for Best, at least spare a thought for his family before you go off on a rant about how he brought it on himself.

padser

Bit of sympathy please people for what is probably a dying man.

In answer to all those people giving out that he got a liver when someone less rich or famous mightened have......Thats hardly George Bests fault now is it? If you were in his position would you have turned down the liver on the basis that 'its unfair im getting it'? I think not!

Guy:Incognito

To all the people who say thay have no sympathy and he brought it on himself etc etc, do you or anyone close to you smoke? If so if your father/mother/brother/sister etc got cancer, would you have any sympathy for them or when they announce it would you say "ahh sure thats you own fault, stop whinging"? Whats the difference.

I'm sure people with an alcoholic in the family or among the people they know will be able to see that its not a deliberate thing, its a disease at worst, an addiction at best.

BigEejit

I voted saying I have no sympathy for him ... but that is only if his current problems are drink related ... and I am not positive they are, I have heard that he had many things wrong with him (internal bleeding being the most serious) but is this all down to his new liver falling to bits because of drink???

FX Meister

No sympathy really. He got a second chance and literally pissed it away. I do agree to some degree that it is a disease. I had an ex who's father was an alco and he regularly had to take time off from work because of his addiction and he was covered by doctors certs. It's easy to see what an alco does as just selfish behaviour.

Rb

Stekelly wrote:

To all the people who say thay have no sympathy and he brought it on himself etc etc, do you or anyone close to you smoke? If so if your father/mother/brother/sister etc got cancer, would you have any sympathy for them or when they announce it would you say "ahh sure thats you own fault, stop whinging"? Whats the difference.
.

If they got lung cancer and then got a transplant and continued to smoke, yes I would say "its your own fault, you should of learnt the first time".

Canis Lupus

Necromomicon wrote:

Yeah, alcohol addiction is a disease. Have you ever had an addiction? I'm guessing not by the ignorant tone of your posts. You speak as if someone can just click their fingers and be over it.
Secondly, the man is a legend. You may not have any interest in soccer, or even sport for that matter, but George Best is a sport legend and always will be. I'm not saying that should earn him extra sympathy, but you seem angry that the man has a huge fan-base. Grow up.

As for my own opinion, I was pretty disappointed when he went back on the drink after his liver transplant, and I understand where people are coming from when they talk about his apparent disregard for life, but the man is a human being. Celebraties aren't invulnerable, they are just as prone to error as the rest of us. I think any person who struggles all their life with any kind of addiction, be it alcohol, smoking, whatever, deserves sympathy.
And if you can't feel sympathy for Best, at least spare a thought for his family before you go off on a rant about how he brought it on himself.

Hows about people stop making excuses for the fact he couldn't stay out of the pub. I have little respect for alcoholics. Even less for those who are in the public eye and even less for alcoholics who drink themselves through 2 livers.

BigEejit

Stekelly wrote:

To all the people who say thay have no sympathy and he brought it on himself etc etc, do you or anyone close to you smoke? If so if your father/mother/brother/sister etc got cancer, would you have any sympathy for them or when they announce it would you say "ahh sure thats you own fault, stop whinging"? Whats the difference.

But in Georges case he got a new liver .... if someone got cancer from smoking and got a new heart/lungs etc and then went off and smoked again until they got lung cancer again would you still feel the same ... and stop personalising it saying "your father/mother/brother/sister" ... that is not the case here (hands up any of George Bests family on Boards.ie... no-one? .. no-one)

I'm sure people with an alcoholic in the family or among the people they know will be able to see that its not a deliberate thing, its a disease at worst, an addiction at best.

I'm sure people with an alcoholic in the family will try ot help their family member to give the damn stuff up. Diseases come from outside the body, addictions from inside, if I gave up fags after 20+ years smoking with no real incentive i cant see why he cant give up drink with the incentive that if he continues he will die.

nesf

BigEejit wrote:

Diseases come from outside the body, addictions from inside, if I gave up fags after 20+ years smoking with no real incentive i cant see why he cant give up drink with the incentive that if he continues he will die.

What you have gone through is not a guide that everyone else can follow. We're not all dealt the same hand and for some their addictions (in this case) might be an awful lot stronger than your's was.

Fags, as bad as they are, don't effect your mind anywhere near as much as alcohol does. You know this.

Guy:Incognito

BigEejit wrote:

But in Georges case he got a new liver .... if someone got cancer from smoking and got a new heart/lungs etc and then went off and smoked again until they got lung cancer again would you still feel the same ... and stop personalising it saying "your father/mother/brother/sister" ... that is not the case here (hands up any of George Bests family on Boards.ie... no-one? .. no-one).

So if you smoke your way to cancer once its ok, but if you do it again, its your own fault? Surely its the same, because you knew the danger the first time but chose to ignore it.

Paddy20

George Best has my sympathy, even though 'he' did not ask for it. He is a confirmed alcoholic, and alcoholism is an 'incurable' killer disease which effects the mind, spirit and body.

IMHO he is/was a football genius. It is acknowledged by many alcoholics, that in order for someone to become an alcoholic. They must first 'want to self destruct' and I am sure George is only too aware of this.

Without going into detail, I believe he knows all about physical, mental and spiritual suffering, and I truly wish those who do not sympathise with him, could be given the grace of true understanding of the human condition.

His fate is in the hands of a higher power, and should he pass away.

May he rest in peace.

P.

Jimi-Spandex

I have sympathy for him.

The man is a footballing legend.

Besides the point, his self destruction has been the result of alcoholism. It is easy for someone who has not carried the burden of addiction to sit there and judge him for what he has done. I'm not saying that there's no element of personal responsibility in this and it is a shame that he hasn't been able to quit booze despite numerous attempts.

And just because he has brought this on himself doesn't mean that you can't feel sympathy for him.

Cabaal

rb_ie wrote:

no I don't have any sympathy for him tbh, he brought it on himself and is now paying the price.

he deserves everything he gets for the way his treated his body

Silverfish

Not a bit of sympathy. I pity him, but I do not feel sorry for him.


I lost a close family member to leukaemia, she didn't bring it on herself. She had to wait for a transplant, and spent 19 months taking care of her diet, giving up all the food she liked because it would increase her chances of recovery, taking all her medication, and not complaining. She had to give up everything she liked - but did it.
She was in no way responsible for what happened, she did everything she could to prevent it.

George Best was given a liver, and did everything he could to ruin it. He doesn't appreciate life, in my opinion.

If someone bought me a car, and I crashed it, and bought me a second one, and I crashed that, should they feel sorry for me? Don't think so.

Guy:Incognito

BBC wrote:

.The ex-Manchester United and Northern Ireland star was admitted to Cromwell Hospital in London four weeks ago, suffering flu-like symptoms.

Best, who had a liver transplant in 2002, remains unconscious.

'Nasty complication'

Professor Williams said on Thursday evening: "His condition is stable but he does have a particularly nasty complication with bleeding from his bowel

"It is a complication that we don't fully understand, we don't know why this is happening and have, this afternoon, changed all of his antibiotics to try to get on top of it."

He said microbiologists had confirmed that the infection was not linked to MRSA and added: "I can't say how serious the infection is and the bleeding comes and goes

He said the problems were not directly linked to Best's replacement liver, which was functioning well.

But he has previously said Best is more susceptible to illness due to medication to suppress the immune system and prevent his body rejecting the liver.

There you are folks. He wasnt out getting locked.

The fact that he's been in hospital and (you would presume) away from alcohol for 4 weeks means it is not really related to drinking. Anyone can get an infection, especially someone that has gone through transplants and the like.

I like the way he drank his way through one liver.

Then proceeded to go back on the batter when he got a new one.

If I knew I was dying I would sign something saying
"Give this liver to anyone but George Best"

joejoem

I feel sorry for him, just because its sad and its a waste.

Stekelly

Stekelly wrote:

There you are folks. He wasnt out getting locked.

The fact that he's been in hospital and (you would presume) away from alcohol for 4 weeks means it is not really related to drinking. Anyone can get an infection, especially someone that has gone through transplants and the like.

You are kidding yourself if you think it has nothing to do with alcohol.

That is a very expensive private doctor talking in that peice. He is going to say the sky is green for the money he is getting off of george best.

Sposs

Im sure the family who donated the Liver to Best are delighted that the death of a member of their family helped an alcoholic to drink for a few years longer.

Dimitri

By no means am i an expert on additction but i'm led to believe for an alcoholic to quit they must hit rock bottom. How can a man who lived for applause like Best did, hit rock bottom when no matter how badly he behaves he still gets the attention and worship(and livers) he craves?

Canis Lupus

Dimitri wrote:

(and livers) he craves?

lol... Like that guy from the early days of the xfiles who could crawl through tiny spaces.

CombatCow

Sposs wrote:

Im sure the family who donated the Liver to Best are delighted that the death of a member of their family helped an alcoholic to drink for a few years longer.

Very true.

I think the liver should have been given to a more deserving person with some resepect for life.Iv no sympathy

*good topic, pighead

CC

scuba steve

i have sympathy but if the doctors told him one more drink could kill him, then wtf was he doing drinking again lik?