Celtic Poker Tour: Quick update

Hitman Actual

Just back from this in Mullingar. Thank God I live in Dublin. Here's a quick summary:

Good points:
1. Good set-up, with decent poker tables, although they're round rather than the usual casino table.

2. Good chips.

3. Loads of staff.

Bad points:
1. No Dealers.

2. No chip races... with 4 tables left there were still some "25" chips on the tables.

3. No idea how to balance tables. The general way was to let tables go down to 6, then move in players. Everyone is then dealt a card, and the first Ace becomes the button!! I sh!t you not!

4. A combination of 1, 2 and 3 turned the game into a crap shoot almost as soon as the freezeout started. No dealers meant slow hands. No chip races meant that a guy would come around in the middle of a hand and start changing chip denominations, causing everyone to stop playing. But the biggest problem was in "balancing " tables. When you let the TD know that you were down to 6, someone would go looking for players. I'm not sure how they were selecting the players, but in one level we went 7 minutes without a hand. Of course the clock wasn't stopped.

5. And here's the biggie: 247 players, average spend of 100euro, and the prize pool was... 10,000 euro. No wonder they never mentioned in any email replies about the percentage of the buy-ins going to the prize pool. Fair enough, there are a lot of staff to pay, and there were some spot prizes during the night, but ffs.

There is no value in these tournaments. They're f**king terrible. An indication of how bad the structure was: by 1.30am, 247 players had been reduced down to 30! (it started around 8pm). I'd love to see Keith Barry try that trick! And one of the most annoying things was that I heard people say how much better the game was than their regular home games. A lot of people outside the main cities just dont have a clue, the poor unfortunate souls.

After tonight, I really sympathise with NickyOD, Jem, and all the other guys who have to put up with this sort of crap.

bill_ashmount

lenny_leonard wrote:

5. And here's the biggie: 247 players, average spend of 100euro, and the prize pool was... 10,000 euro. No wonder they never mentioned in any email replies about the percentage of the buy-ins going to the prize pool. Fair enough, there are a lot of staff to pay, and there were some spot prizes during the night, but ffs.

How can people let them get away with this? Did you finish out the tournament or ask for your money back? It's daylight robbery...

BigDragon

Am I reading this right?? 25k in 10k out??????

Call the cops!

ionapaul

It can't be legal, can it?

If a decent crew (such as Pokerevents) expanded and covered most of Ireland's large towns with weekly / bi-monthly tournaments, they would blow these clowns out of the water and hopefully make a killing while still being 100% above board. I don't think any of us mind 10% of our buy-ins going to the organiser of a properly run tournament, or even 15%, but all these rip-off merchants taking 50%+, what a scam!

jem

I had a feeling this would be a robbery job, when they answered all the questions with the exception of the important ones blinds and money.
geting tired of these types of tourney. trouble is there is sfa else down here.
I hope nicky gets his limerick game going.
In the meantime I will stick to our tight home game and the kildare tourney. We are heading up to the fitz soon (all 7 of us) should be fun.

Bp!

lenny_leonard wrote:

3. No idea how to balance tables. The general way was to let tables go down to 6, then move in players. Everyone is then dealt a card, and the first Ace becomes the button!! I sh!t you not!

4. A combination of 1, 2 and 3 turned the game into a crap shoot almost as soon as the freezeout started. No dealers meant slow hands. No chip races meant that a guy would come around in the middle of a hand and start changing chip denominations, causing everyone to stop playing. But the biggest problem was in "balancing " tables. When you let the TD know that you were down to 6, someone would go looking for players. I'm not sure how they were selecting the players, but in one level we went 7 minutes without a hand. Of course the clock wasn't stopped.

The fact it was no dealin slowed everything way down, its very annoyin when the person who just won a pot has to deal and firstly decides o stack all their chips in neat stacks.. i mean come on!

Yeh i couldnt believe the "New player at table...First Ace is the dealer" where did that come out of..some decent players but hard to see them among all the rubbish

Bp!

ionapaul wrote:

It can't be legal, can it?

If a decent crew (such as Pokerevents) expanded and covered most of Ireland's large towns with weekly / bi-monthly tournaments, they would blow these clowns out of the water and hopefully make a killing while still being 100% above board. I don't think any of us mind 10% of our buy-ins going to the organiser of a properly run tournament, or even 15%, but all these rip-off merchants taking 50%+, what a scam!

Pokerevents PLEASE cover the midlands ! we plead of ye!!

NickyOD

I knew these ass-clowns would be up to no good. There badly needs to be legislation put in place to regulate poker tournaments. I have zero sypmpathy for anyone who plays these on a regular basis and I'm seriously pissed off that there are so many idiots out there willing to get ripped off. They are making the problem a lot worse. The only winners are the bastards creaming the prizepools.

Did they pay 5K to 1st like they said they would? How many places paid out? Surely they weren't stupid enough to give 50% to the winner and divide 50% between 26 other palyers?

They creamed over 50% of the money even though there was a reg fee. No dealers. nonsense structure, no chip races, no table balancing, a TD who doesn't know his ass from his elbow and there were probably basic holdem rules being all over the place.

I think I would rather attempt to pass a pineapple through my rectum than play in that circus.

ionapaul

Can't someone here, someone enterprising, do a Pokerevents and set up a real company to cover the midlands? I assume some of you looked into it, will a properly run and marketed poker tournaments company make money, given that the market right now is HUGE and untapped?

jem

ionapaul wrote:

Can't someone here, someone enterprising, do a Pokerevents and set up a real company to cover the midlands? I assume some of you looked into it, will a properly run and marketed poker tournaments company make money, given that the market right now is HUGE and untapped?

The problem is the legality is very very questionable for any of these tourneys.
I discussed it 6/8 months ago with solicitor & local super(sound bloke) there attitude was that they were basically illigal. The super said he would turn a blind eye to ours as a charity event.
I wouldnt get involved in anything that may rebound legally.

Spiritus

NickyOD wrote:

I think I would rather attempt to pass a pineapple through my rectum than play in that circus.

In fairness, if you were to attempt this feat I think you have a good shot at actually BEING in the circus.

I couldnt google any similar 'fruit-passing' acts so afaik you are on to a winner!

NickyOD

Spiritus wrote:

In fairness, if you were to attempt this feat I think you have a good shot at actually BEING in the circus.

I couldnt google any similar 'fruit-passing' acts so afaik you are on to a winner!

I can do Grapes, plums and satsumas. Working my way up to Apples now. Will get there eventually.

califano

Spiritus wrote:

In fairness, if you were to attempt this feat I think you have a good shot at actually BEING in the circus.

I couldnt google any similar 'fruit-passing' acts so afaik you are on to a winner!

it depends whether its with the grain or against the grain.

NickyOD

rounders123 wrote:

it depends whether its with the grain or against the grain.

Sure why do it the easy way if you can do it the hard way?

DeVore

Well, I reiterate my thoughts about the IPPTC and in fact we really should have an Irish Poker Players Union of some kind but I cant figure out how it might work etc.
Certainly we should do that before the government steps in and regulates the whole thing (badly, as we know they will without any direction from us).

Also, I am part of a new and reinvigorated Suited Aces group that is returning to put on decent, non-ripoff tournaments around the Dublin and Midlands areas.
I'll probably put up a forum for them at some stage but thats further down the road.
I'll post more on this when we are ready to go.

DeV.

Hitman Actual

Here's a full report of this event, which is part of my almost-live blog. A warning, it's long. I'm posting it because I hate the fact these wasters are scamming people who dont know any better.

"I live in Dublin, which is the ideal scenario for an amatuer Irish poker player. Currently there are three casinos running regular poker tournaments, with rumours that Dermot Desmond is soon to open a "super" casino. I can pick and choose my tournaments, and play in the ones that offer the most value. But outside Dublin, the situation isn't so good. With the exception of Cork and Belfast, finding decently-run tournaments is a difficult task. So what you now have are a lot of people setting up their own "Poker Tours" around the country, jumping on the poker bandwagon. PokerEvents was the first of these, and this has proved to be a big success in it's first year; it must said that it is bringing some very-well run tournaments to parts of the country which aren't as lucky as Dublin.

With this in mind, it was with great interest that I heard that the Celtic Poker Tour was rolling into Mullingar, where I'm originally from. I was home that night as I had a wedding on the following day, so I decided to see if they knew what they were at, or if they were just out to screw the masses of Mullingar. And initially I was quite impressed. Registration was quick, with four staff dedicated to the job, so the 250 odd players were sorted out with little fuss. Their set-up looked to be good, with proper poker tables (all be it round, rather than the regular casino type) packed into the area, and two projector screens at each corner of the main room to display the tournament clock, blinds, etc. The chips and cards were of good quality, although I soon noticed that there were no cutting cards. And there were a lot of staff around... so far so good.

The tournament itself was a standard NLHE rebuy event, with your inital stack of 5000 costing 50euro (+ 5 for reg), and the option of 3 rebuys and a top-up or 4 rebuys, at 25euro each. Rebuys lasted for the first 6 levels (20minutes each), with the standard structure of 25/50, 50/100, 75/150, etc, and the freezeout period would have levels of 15 minutes each. Antes were to be introduced at level 14.

One reason that I wanted to play this game was that I was interested in seeing what the standard of play was like in the midlands. But when play started it became apparent that most of the players had little or no holdem experience. I would guess that there were two above-average players at each table, and the rest were practically newbies. I heard the usual comments that always make me laugh at these events, such as "any two cards can win", "Do you see yer man Gus Hansen on the telly, he plays with sh!te and still wins", etc.

The play itself was very passive, with little or no raising at all pre-flop. A couple of guys limped with KK, and proceeded to lose all their money on dangerous boards. Seeing how passive things were, I started to limp into a lot of pots in late position, getting to see cheap flops. On one such occasion, my 74s turned into a house by the river, and I doubled up when another guy hit his straight. (He actually hit the straight on the turn, but checked it into me... I was fairly sure he was on the straight draw when he called my flop bet, so there was no way I was betting. His slow-play cost him!) Next hand I semi-bluff an all-heart flop holding the Ace of hearts, and take down a big pot, folding out JJ. And then in the very next hand I pick up KK, which I raise and get one caller. Flop comes Ten-high, it's checked to me, and I make a pot-sized bet. Villain moves all-in and I call. He was "trapping" with AT, and I pick up another big pot when my Kings hold up... in the space of three hands I'm up to 30K! And I still have a top-up of 10K to come.

So far, the organisation still seemed to be ok, except that the way tables were being balanced was starting to niggle at me. Niggling me in that I dont know how they were doing it, and I dont think they knew either! As it transpired, any illusions I had that these guys knew what they were doing was shattered after the break. Blind levels were down to 15mins, so with a self-deal structure it was already rare enough to get a full round of the table in a given level. But the farcical efforts at table-balancing reduced the amount of hands to a trickle. The general method was to let a table get reduced down to 6 players, and then a member of staff would go looking for players. I think they were getting players by breaking down tables, but it could have been any random method. Whatever way they were doing it, it meant that play would grind to a halt, with the clock still running. In one level we lost a full 7 minutes! What a f**king joke! And to top it off, when the tables were full again a card was dealt to each player, and the first Ace became the button. Another issue I saw was that they didn't do any chip races, probably because they dont know how to do these either. This added more delays as a member of staff would come around changing chip denominations in the middle of a hand, again causing everyone to stop playing. And yet another problem was that with the amount of players going all-in, there were side-pots galore to be worked out. I was happy enough to do this at my table, but I'm sure there were plenty of tables where nobody had a clue what was going on. This comical situation meant that there were maybe 4 or 5 hands dealt in a given level, IF you were lucky.

So for my remaining time in the tournament, I was gradually getting on edge (read this as I was f**king pissed off as hell!). Which was a pity, because early in the freezeout period I get my stack up to 60K when I pick up AA in the SB, and call an all-in against a hasty KT steal. So with blinds at 300/600, I'm in excellent shape, and there are no Andy Black's or Scott Gray's in this field! But with just 20 hands at most per hour, the structure got too tight too quick, and my stack got worked down to 30K (although admittedly I was guilty of not being aggressive enough with a decent stack). The level where we had to wait 7 minutes for players tilted me, and I got knocked out on a coin-flip. It's a long time since I went on tilt in any game, but it took just a couple of hours in this crappy tournament to do it!

Another contentious issue, for me at least, was the prize pool. For a field of 250 players, only the top 9 were to be paid, with the payout capped at 10K, with 5K going to the winner. (As it happened, there were a couple of extra places paid on the night; how generous of them to give out an extra few hundred euro!). Capped prize pools are one of the dirtiest words in tournament poker, and with the average spend at 100 euro per person, these chancers were taking a serious cut out of the players money. Obviously, staff have to be paid, and the organisers are in the game to show a profit, but this skimming of the prize pool is a massive scam. There is absolutely no value in this game for any player. Fighting your way through 250 players to win just 5 grand is a disgrace; Had I won this, I'd be going looking for the other 4 or 5K that I would be entitled to in a 250 player tournament.

This is a quote from an email I got from these guys: "Our aim at Celtic Poker Tour is to revolutionise the way poker tournaments are run in Ireland, and, as avid players, we understand the elements that create the perfect 'Hold'Em' experience." I'm not sure what they think they understand, but they have no idea how to run NLHE tournaments. They cant balance tables, cant do chip races, dont provide dealers, and to top it off, they scam the punter out of the prize money. If this is the revolution, I dont want any part of it. Avoid these tournaments like the plague. Dont give these f**cking chancers your money."

JustMac

I appreciate the info on the 1st tournament, thx Lenny.

Anyone any feedback on how the 2nd and 3rd tournament went.

Was thinking of goint to event in Killarney next weekend but thinking
again from what I've read. As mentioned, very difficult to get decent
game in Kerry area.

Lafortezza

Anyone have contact details for Celtic Poker Tour. They should be emailed the Url to this thread so they can defend themselves/set the record straight.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

The two directors are:

Mike Foley : Mobile 087 9109841 mikefoley@celticpokertour.com
Denis Alsybury : Mobile 087 9104413 denisalsybury@celticpokertour.com

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

while i go with the general view of this crowd, there two issues that need to be considered before making final judgement:

- is any of the prize money from the small tournies going to the big €100k tournie?

- if the company is guaranteeing €10k prize money for each tournament, they are taking on the risk of not enough people turning up for one of their tournaments and thus not enough prize money being in the pool for that night, and them having to dip into their own pockets to make up the difference.

corblimey

lenny_leonard wrote:

Good points:
3. Loads of staff.
Bad points:
1. No Dealers.

Not to be a thickie, but what were the staff doing if they weren't dealing?

Hitman Actual

corblimey wrote:

Not to be a thickie, but what were the staff doing if they weren't dealing?

At the start, they gave out the chips and cards. After that, they were "balancing" tables, sorting out side-pot issues (I think), and... not sure after that. There were about 10 extra staff in all, along with the two main guys.

Whatever about the prize pool issue, the fact that they cant do simple things like balancing tables or chip races is a big problem. It's just badly run, end of story, but these are things that can be improved. My report may have been a bit harsh, but it's just not a good tournament.

Doesn't really matter to me in the long run, I always have the Fitz.

NickyOD

lenny_leonard wrote:

Doesn't really matter to me in the long run, I always have the Fitz.

Yeah that's the problem though. Outside of Dublin and Cork We're screwed. The players don't know any better and this sort of practice is just accepted. They'll just keep raping prizepools for as much as they can get away.

Hitman Actual

lafortezza wrote:

Anyone have contact details for Celtic Poker Tour. They should be emailed the Url to this thread so they can defend themselves/set the record straight.

lafortezza, did you send these guys this link? I'm curious to know why they haven't replied yet.

JustMac

Given that they seem to refuse to answer the relevant questions in e-mails I'd be fairly sure that they wouldn't like to get dragged into this discussion. I'm sure its a case of say nothing and hope people don't realise they're being ripped off until well after they have made a fortune.
Think we need Eddie Hobbs to investigate.
Still haven't heard how the 2nd and 3rd events went but presume same as the first.

Lafortezza

lenny_leonard wrote:

lafortezza, did you send these guys this link? I'm curious to know why they haven't replied yet.

Sorry, I didn't do it since I wasn't actually at the tournament.

patmac

looking to play tournament in Athlone for the first time but put off by your comments, is there any other games in pubs, houses etc in the Athlone, Ballinasloe region?

Pokerevents

Hi there is a tournament in the Shamrock lodge for the next three Thursdays and every second Thursday after that. It s part of the Irish poker championship with 100% of the prizepool paid out to the players.
It's a 50 plus 15 NL holdem with one rebuy only @ 50 plus 10.
See pokerevents.ie for full details.

patmac

Hi
Looks like two tournaments on the same night (Thursday 22nd) in Athlone you wait all year for one and 2 come along at the same time. Judging from comments the pokerevents looks a better bet as the Celtic Poker is heavily advertised posters in all the pubs signs on the road etc. Any suggestions as I've never played in of these tournaments before.

Hitman Actual

"patmac&quot wrote:

Hi
Looks like two tournaments on the same night (Thursday 22nd) in Athlone you wait all year for one and 2 come along at the same time. Judging from comments the pokerevents looks a better bet as the Celtic Poker is heavily advertised posters in all the pubs signs on the road etc. Any suggestions as I've never played in of these tournaments before.

Go to Pokerevents, much better run and much better value.

Hitman Actual

lafortezza wrote:

Sorry, I didn't do it since I wasn't actually at the tournament.

I got in touch with the two organisers last Thursday, but they haven't bothered replying to me, or posting in this thread. Take from that what you will.

JustMac

I think the Poker Events tournie starts at 7.30 while Celtic Poker Tour starts at 6pm. I think what I would do is turn up at the celtic poker tour and try to do a head count or somehow figure out how many are playing and if 100 or less then it would be worth playing in it, otherwise Poker Events tournie.

patmac

Pokerevents wrote:

Hi there is a tournament in the Shamrock lodge for the next three Thursdays and every second Thursday after that. It s part of the Irish poker championship with 100% of the prizepool paid out to the players.
It's a 50 plus 15 NL holdem with one rebuy only @ 50 plus 10.
See pokerevents.ie for full details.

what time does your tournament start at.

Pokerevents

19.30 for registration with cards dealt @ 20.00 sharp.
100% prizepool payout with trained croupiers @ every table.

patmac

Hi
Played my first tourney in Athlone last night what would you do?
3 and half hours in. last 25 players,
Player A 7h 8h
Player B (chip Leader)
€5000 in pot
Flop 4h 5h kh

NickyOD

patmac wrote:

Hi
Played my first tourney in Athlone last night what would you do?
3 and half hours in. last 25 players,
Player A 7h 8h
Player B (chip Leader)
€5000 in pot
Flop 4h 5h kh

Jamorama.

patmac

chip leader had 9h 10h got busted

Hitman Actual

patmac wrote:

chip leader had 9h 10h got busted

Which game did you play, Pokerevents or Celtic Poker Tour?

You were unlucky in the hand. In tougher games you probably wouldn't be involved with a hand like 78s, but in these sort of games the money is going in, end of story.

opr

Hi Guys

I know what you have all said about how bad Celtic Poker tours is but its in Dundalk tonight and thinking of giving it a go.

From anyone who has played in this and knows the format. Any advice you would like to offer ?

OPR

WMeathCool

Hey OPR,

Im not sure what company these jizz monkeys work for but they are obviously scared of celtic poker tour. I didnt get to make it to the mullingar event and when i read this thread the next day i was glad. But when i saw they were in Athlone last week, curiosity got the better of me. I went along and had a fantastic night. I didnt win, but, jesus they put on a fantastic night. They did do a chip race and the balancing of tables wasnt that annoying at all. Go along and make up your own mind. These bloody blogs would do your head in. I only joined today cause i felt that strongly about the ****e these guys have been coming out with.

heres a link to another thread here where the posts (except those from theses guys) are all relevant and positive.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=303512&highlight=celtic+poker+tour

Waylander

WMeathcool you are a moron. If you think someone like CPT would not care about what posters in this forum think why do poker events and Paddy Power maintain a presence here? CPT were emailed with a link to this thread and obviously reacted, although they did not care to post here in their defence. So now, because they have improved their setup, you have a pleasant experience, probably partly because of the original posters in this thread and you come on here and start shooting your mouth off with an ill thought arguement. I am also an accountant, and there are several other posters who are accountants, and one of those (Jem) also organises tournaments, so please do not tell us of the costs involved, we all have a pretty good idea. I am usually the first to defend these companies setting up tournies outside Dublin, and do not think they can be reasonably expected to compete with the same reg as Dublin casino's but the report on the first tournie was condemning, and it was from a regular poster who I have not met in person, but he has always come across as a fair person on this forum before. I think your attitude has been lousy throughout this thread and you should be showing gratitude for the improvement as oppossed to ill thought scorn!

patmac

lenny_leonard wrote:

Which game did you play, Pokerevents or Celtic Poker Tour?

You were unlucky in the hand. In tougher games you probably wouldn't be involved with a hand like 78s, but in these sort of games the money is going in, end of story.

It was a learning curve, I was the big blind, and there was already 5000 in the pot so I tried to get the pot quickly, as it was my first game I was just looking for reassurance that I did the right thing. But overall I thought the tournament was very well run although there was only 57 players, I drove past the Raddisson where the Celtic tour was on and it seemed packed, a very enjoyable night looking forward to next week.

Hitman Actual

patmac wrote:

It was a learning curve, I was the big blind, and there was already 5000 in the pot so I tried to get the pot quickly, as it was my first game I was just looking for reassurance that I did the right thing. But overall I thought the tournament was very well run although there was only 57 players, I drove past the Raddisson where the Celtic tour was on and it seemed packed, a very enjoyable night looking forward to next week.

You did absolutely nothing wrong. When I said that you probably wouldn't be involved with 78s in a tougher game, I meant that you would probably be faced with a raise/re-raise, and might have to throw it away. Best of luck in your next game!

patmac

Thanks.

Whyno

I`ve played one of these tournaments and ta be honest had not experienced one as being this well run...however i had done my calculations and worked out on average 100 euro per player multiplied by 220..savage profit when they only give back 10k... the prizes are 5k...2k...1k... and then feck all for the next 7 finishers....i got knocked out with 3 tables left with a bad beat on the river (flush v 3 aces(heart breaking lol) and then proceeded in playing a side table of 50 euros a player and 5 euro for the house as they say it... calmly as i liked won the side game and recieved 300 euro for my trouble and the 2nd 150 euro and third 50euro... then i talked to a guy who finished 6th played tournament poker for 5 hours + and recieved the same as myself who only had to beat nine at a side table where as he had already lasted longer that 223 other players and recieved this feale reward...doesnt make sense really does it. These tournaments are only beneficial if ya can win em but because there is so many bad players playin in them that the odds are that they will catch some sort of lucky break and knock a good player(s) out leaving the odds of winning very high. Does anyone have a solution cos i`m from aouth wicklow and travelling long distances for good games like in the big casinos is only a novelty that i can do every little once in a while...

Washout

do they also charge a fee on top of your buy in as well?

anthony112

hi, ive been reading your threads and was wondering if these competitions are worth going to once and for all as they are running two consecutive events in ballina this weekend and next.
any information will be greatly appreciated
P.S I play on pokerstars and was wondering if the rumours are true that it is one of the hardest sites to win on.
thank you. :cool:

Whyno

Yeah you pay 50+5 and its 25 for 2 buy backs and 25 for a top up....

NickyOD

Washout wrote:

do they also charge a fee on top of your buy in as well?

There is no breakdown of their fees. The €5 reg fee is irrelevent because they've been paying out out less that 50% of money taken in which includes buyin+reg+rebuys.

blake7

been to mullingar thurles carlow and kilkenny cpt nights. cant believe such bad press on this site. i really enjoyed it. it might not be for the sunglass brigade who think they know it all but its perfect for players trying to improve their game.as regards prize money etc take note that in kilkenny there were less than a hundred players and they gave out over ten grand. fair play.

Hitman Actual

blake7 wrote:

been to mullingar thurles carlow and kilkenny cpt nights.

blake7 wrote:

it might not be for the sunglass brigade who think they know it all

Nobody here claims to know it all, but there are players who have more experience of what makes a good tournament, so they at least know better.

blake7 wrote:

but its perfect for players trying to improve their game.

I have to disagree with you here. Firstly, the structure is too tight to allow any real play once the freezeout period begins. It becomes a crapshoot, where skill goes out the window. Secondly, the standard is generally too low for anyone to learn anything of importance. You need to play against better opposition to improve; I think that's something that holds true for any sport.

blake7 wrote:

as regards prize money etc take note that in kilkenny there were less than a hundred players and they gave out over ten grand. fair play.

Fair enough, so they're making a loss at some events. That still doesn't make their higher-turnout tournaments good value. It's a lot harder to win a 250-player event than a 100-player event, but the prize money is the same for both in capped prize pools.

blake7 wrote:

been to mullingar thurles carlow and kilkenny cpt nights.

Out of curiousity, if you're willing to travel big distances to follow this crowd around, why not play in the casinos in Dublin? You will learn a lot more, and be getting much better value for you money.