JFK Assassination

Conas

Balaclava you still haven't been able to refute what John Connolly said himself. All your diagrams are pointless, because John Connolly said he wasn't hit by the throat shot. Keep trying with the diagrams and pictures, but there all void.

Connolly's words are Connolly's words. :D:D

Oh and might I also add Bill Newman, was the closest person to the headshot of the President, and he said the shot came over his right shoulder, from the area of the grassy knoll. He wasn't even interviewed by your beloved Warren Commission.

So that's John Connolly and Bill Newman I want to see you refute. Give us your best shot.

weisses

Believe it or not, more than 50,000 pages of JFK assassination-related documents are being withheld in full. And an untold number of documents have been partially withheld, or released with everything interesting blacked out. But why?

Since the government and the big media keep telling us there was no conspiracy, and that it was all Lee Harvey Oswald acting on his own, why continue to keep the wraps on?

http://whowhatwhy.com/2012/05/30/is-the-government-holding-back-crucial-documents/

And yet people think its a clear cut case

It turns out that several hundred of the still-classified pages concern a deceased CIA agent, George Joannides, whose activities just before the assassination and, fascinatingly, during a government investigation years later, have tantalized researchers for years.

"This is not about conspiracy, this is about transparency," said Jefferson Morley, a former Washington Post reporter and author embroiled in a decade-long lawsuit against the CIA, seeking release of the closed documents. "I think the CIA should obey the law. I don't think most people think that's a crazy idea."

Morley's effort has been joined by others, including G. Robert Blakey, chief counsel for a House investigation into the JFK assassination in the 1970s. But so far, the Joannides files and thousands more pages primarily from the CIA remain off-limits at a National Archives center in College Park, Md.

Others say the continued sealing of 50-year-old documents raises needless questions in the public's mind and encourages conspiracy theories.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/decades-jfk-probe-files-sealed-20768855

Balaclava1991

Conas wrote: »

Balaclava you still haven't been able to refute what John Connolly said himself.

I don't have to refute Connally's evidence.

Connally said he heard a shot over his right shoulder then turned to look and as he was about to turn to his left he got hit in the back.

That is consistent with the first shot missing and the second shot hitting both men.

Photographic and physical evidence proves that both men were hit at the same time.

All your diagrams are pointless, because John Connolly said he wasn't hit by the throat shot.

Physical evidence trumps fallible recollection.

Keep trying with the diagrams and pictures, but there all void.

The diagrams and pictures are based on the physical evidence presented to Warren Commission and the House Select Committee On Assassinations.

Connolly's words are Connolly's words. :D:D

Connally's words are not the only evidence.

Oh and might I also add Bill Newman, was the closest person to the headshot of the President

Newman was not the only witness to the shooting.

, and he said the shot came over his right shoulder, from the area of the grassy knoll.

His evidence is directly contradicted by the physical evidence which proves the shots came from the Texas School Book Depository and supported by the testimony of witnesses who saw Oswald in the window firing a rifle.
Witnesses evidence is notoriously unreliable but when the majority of witnesses said they heard three shots and believed they came from the Book Depository then obviously you have to draw the necessary conclusion don't you?

So that's John Connolly and Bill Newman I want to see you refute. Give us your best shot.

I have shown you ample evidence already that proves the shots came from Oswald's rifle in the 6th floor window.

There are 53 pieces of circumstantial and physical evidence that prove Oswald's guilt beyond all reasonable doubt.

(1) Oswald always visited Marina in Irving on a Friday. Nov 21 was the first Thursday visit ever.
(2) Oswald's claim to be getting curtain rods in Irving was an implausible lie.
(3) Oswald told Frazier he would NOT be coming back to Irving on Friday night.
(4) That night Oswald avoided Kennedy talk with Marina, a subject it was their custom to discuss.
(5) Friday morning, Oswald left almost all his cash and his wedding ring in Irving.
(6) On Friday morning, Oswald placed a long paper-wrapped package in the back seat of Frazier's car.
(7) Frazier noticed that for the first time on a return trip from Irving, Oswald brought no lunch.
(8) On arrival at the TSBD, Oswald walked faster and ahead of Frazier for the first time ever.
(9) For the first time ever, Oswald didn't read the paper in the TSBD domino room.
(10) Oswald's pretense with a co-worker that he didn't know JFK's route
(11) Howard Brennan saw Lee Harvey Oswald fire the third shot that killed the President.
(12) Kennedy's assassin was at the now-infamous sixth-floor window.
(13) During interrogation, Oswald put himself on the sixth floor at the time of the assassination.
(14) Oswald's story of getting a Coke after hearing commotion of assassination is not sensible.
(15) It makes no sense that Oswald the "political animal" had no interest in the President's death.
(16) After the assassination, only Oswald missed a roll call at the TSBD.
(17) Oswald walked past his normal bus stop and walked seven blocks to board a different line.
(18) Oswald left the Marsalis bus when it got caught in traffic.
(19) Oswald's not speaking to his cab driver about the assassination is striking.
(20) Oswald had the cab drive past his residence, dropping him off down the road.
(21) Oswald's behavior at his boarding house indicates a flight in progress.
(22) Oswald retrieved his revolver at the rooming house.
(23) In addition to getting a coat and his gun, Oswald changed trousers.
(24) Lee Harvey Oswald murdered J.D. Tippit.
(25) A store manager saw Oswald evading police sirens in front of his store.
(26) Oswald slipped into the Texas Theater without buying a ticket.
(27) When approached by police in the Texas Theater, Oswald said "Well, it is all over now."
(28) Oswald then fought the police and tried to pull his revolver out.
(29) After arrest, Oswald refused to even give his name to arresting officers.
(30) Oswald made a clenched-fist salute to reporters.
(31) Oswald refused a lie detector test.
(32) After visiting him on Saturday, Marina came away convinced of Oswald's guilt.
(33) Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle was found on the sixth floor of the TSBD.
(34) The mostly intact bullet (CE 399) and two of the fragments were fired from this rifle.
(35) The three expended shells on the sixth floor were "fired in and ejected from" Oswald's rifle.
(36) A handmade paper bag large enough to carry Oswald's rifle was found in the sniper's nest.
(37) Oswald's prints were found on boxes that comprised the sniper's nest.
(38) Oswald was the sole owner of the revolver found in his possession on arrest.
(39) The bullets recovered from Tippit's body were consistent with being fired from Oswald's .
(40) The four cartridge shells found at the Tippit murder scene were fired from Oswald's revolver.
(41) A paraffin test on Oswald's hands showed he'd fired a revolver just before his arrest.
(42) Oswald left his blue jacket behind in the TSBD.
(43) Oswald's tan jacket was found along the path Tippit's killer took.
(44) Oswald's work clipboard was found on the sixth floor of the TSBD.
(45) Oswald lied about owning a rifle, and about owning the Mannlicher-Carcano specifically.
(46) Oswald lied about being in the backyard photo where he was holding his rifle.
(47) Oswald lied about having seen the picture before.
(48) Oswald lied about living at the place where the picture with the rifle was taken.
(49) Oswald lied about telling Wesley Frazier the curtain rod story.
(50) Oswald lied about putting a long package into Frazier's car that morning.
(51) Oswald told police the only thing he'd brought to work that morning was his lunch.
(52) Oswald lied about having lunch on the first floor with two other employees.
(53) Oswald lied about where he'd bought his revolver.

Dave!

Conas wrote: »

Balaclava you still haven't been able to refute what John Connolly said himself. All your diagrams are pointless, because John Connolly said he wasn't hit by the throat shot. Keep trying with the diagrams and pictures, but there all void.

Connolly's words are Connolly's words. :D:D

Oh and might I also add Bill Newman, was the closest person to the headshot of the President, and he said the shot came over his right shoulder, from the area of the grassy knoll. He wasn't even interviewed by your beloved Warren Commission.

So that's John Connolly and Bill Newman I want to see you refute. Give us your best shot.

Why on earth would you put so much faith in the testimony of someone who was shot and then probably in shock as they were rushed to hospital? And then asked to recollect minute details?

You clearly have not read anything about the fallibility of human perception and memory. It is extremely flawed. Objective and forensic evidence trumps witness testimony every day of the week.

You're grasping at straws here buddy

Conas

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

I don't have to refute Connally's evidence.

Connally said he heard a shot over his right shoulder then turned to look and as he was about to turn to his left he got hit in the back.

That is consistent with the first shot missing and the second shot hitting both men.

Photographic and physical evidence proves that both men were hit at the same time.

Well since you believe in the official story so much, why waste your time talking in this thread? Despite the vast majority of American's still believing in a conspiracy. You relentlessly twist the facts, and here you go again.

Yes, Connolly and Kennedy reacted to the first shot that missed, you can see it in the Zapruder film. I'm not talking about that shot, I'm talking about the shot that hit Kennedy's throat after existing from behind the sign, that's when you see Connolly turning around to look at Kennedy. Connolly has stated unequivocally that he had NOT been shot then. He said all he seen was a crowd of people, then as he turned back to look over his other shoulder, THEN he was shot.

So what you are saying to me is the shot that hit Kennedy from behind, went through his throat stopped for a few seconds, then shot out and hit Connolly. Impossible. You can believe your magic bullet, but I'm going with Connolly's relentless and outright consistent remarks that he did not believe the magic bullet, and was not hit by it

Newman was not the only witness to the shooting.

The closest man to the fatal headshot, and the murder itself, omitted from the Warren Commission. Come on will you. Shocking to say the least.

His evidence is directly contradicted by the physical evidence which proves the shots came from the Texas School Book Depository and supported by the testimony of witnesses who saw Oswald in the window firing a rifle.Witnesses evidence is notoriously unreliable but when the majority of witnesses said they heard three shots and believed they came from the Book Depository then obviously you have to draw the necessary conclusion don't you?

This is hilarious, and do you know that they were also able to tell his exact height aswell. His exact height, 6 floors up. How the hell can you tell someones height from looking up into a window? LOL

You are most certainly a CIA man Balacalava. lol

Conas

Dave! wrote: »

Why on earth would you put so much faith in the testimony of someone who was shot and then probably in shock as they were rushed to hospital? And then asked to recollect minute details?

You clearly have not read anything about the fallibility of human perception and memory. It is extremely flawed. Objective and forensic evidence trumps witness testimony every day of the week.

You're grasping at straws here buddy

You are missing the point, his comments were well after the assassination. He sat down and reviewed the Zapruder Film himself, of course I'd believe his words over a guys like Allen Dulles, and Arlen Spector.

Balaclava1991

Conas wrote: »

Well since you believe in the official story so much, why waste your time talking in this thread? Despite the vast majority of American's still believing in a conspiracy. You relentlessly twist the facts, and here you go again.

The vast majority of Americans and most other people get their information from the blizzard of conspiracy orientated books and movies that deliberately twisted the facts.

Yes, Connolly and Kennedy reacted to the first shot that missed, you can see it in the Zapruder film.

At about frame 160 of the Zapruder film.

I'm not talking about that shot, I'm talking about the shot that hit Kennedy's throat after existing from behind the sign, that's when you see Connolly turning around to look at Kennedy.

Both Kennedy and Connally react at the same time at frame 223-224. Kennedy's hands shoot up to his throat and his elbows shoot out.
Connally's jacket lapel lifts outward - the same position where the bullet exited his chest - at the same time and he cries out in pain and starts to slump into his wife's lap.

Connolly has stated unequivocally that he had NOT been shot then. He said all he seen was a crowd of people, then as he turned back to look over his other shoulder, THEN he was shot.

Connally was turning back to look over his shoulder when he was shot.
The bullet exited Kennedy's throat and struck him in the back.

So what you are saying to me is the shot that hit Kennedy from behind, went through his throat stopped for a few seconds, then shot out and hit Connolly. Impossible. You can believe your magic bullet, but I'm going with Connolly's relentless and outright consistent remarks that he did not believe the magic bullet, and was not hit by it

I said no such thing.
The bullet passed through both men in a fraction of a second after leaving the muzzle of Oswald's rifle barrel.

The Discovery Channel closely replicated the shot using two medical surrogates - exact realistic models of flesh and bone torsos and shot them from the same height and distance relative from the 6th floor window. The results were very close and prove the Warren Commission were right.

The closest man to the fatal headshot, and the murder itself, omitted from the Warren Commission. Come on will you. Shocking to say the least.

Bill Newman was not omitted from the Warren Commission.
He submitted an affidavit.
However physical evidence trumps witness testimony.

This is hilarious, and do you know that they were also able to tell his exact height aswell. His exact height, 6 floors up. How the hell can you tell someones height from looking up into a window? LOL

Howard Brennan immediately approached a Dallas police officer who broadcast the description over the radio net. It is on record. The description closely matched the description of Oswald and also closely matched the description of the man who shot J.D. Tippit.
Both Kennedy and Tippit were killed with weapons owned by Oswald.

You are most certainly a CIA man Balacalava. lol

Don't be ridiculous.

Conas

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Both Kennedy and Connally react at the same time at frame 223-224. Kennedy's hands shoot up to his throat and his elbows shoot out.
Connally's jacket lapel lifts outward - the same position where the bullet exited his chest - at the same time and he cries out in pain and starts to slump into his wife's lap.

Kennedy reacts, but Connolly actually says 'oh no no no' as he turns, then he shouts 'oh my god they're going to kill us all'.

You see I can't keep typing this in ever message and reply, about when Connolly said he was hit when he reviewed the film himself. He said he wasn't hit by the first shot that hit Kennedy in the throat. It's up to other people to come to their own conclusions, and say what they believe. I just think it's ridiculous to disagree with what John Connolly said, the man who was sitting in front of JFK on the motorcade trip. It would be like me seeing a murder unfold in front of my very eyes, and then a Garda comes along and tells me it wasn't that way at all. Despite me being there to witness it, and he wasn't. Who would you believe, me the witness or the Garda? I think the vast majority of people would believe me.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Bill Newman was not omitted from the Warren Commission.
He submitted an affidavit.
However physical evidence trumps witness testimony.

That's an astonishing statement to make. Bill Newman hasn't changed his story in over 50 years. He said on TV that day when interviewed that the shots came from the knoll, and he has never changed his mind. Like I said he was the closest person to the murder, and the head-shot. To think he wasn't even called before the Commission is astounding. Bill Newman was in Dallas on the scene of the crime, what member of the Warren Commission was in Dallas? None of them, hence they had no right to trump his testimony, and as everyone knows he wasn't the only person who thought the shots came from the knoll, You can even see Visual and Recorded evidence of people running up the Grassy Knoll after the shooting.

Howard Brennan immediately approached a Dallas police officer who broadcast the description over the radio net. It is on record. The description closely matched the description of Oswald and also closely matched the description of the man who shot J.D. Tippit.
Both Kennedy and Tippit were killed with weapons owned by Oswald.

Like I said, it's remarkable you can tell the height of a person, looking at them six stories up in a large building. I myself wouldn't be able to tell a person's height, if he was standing 20ft away from me on ground level.

Noo

What about all the people not called to testify at the warren comission. An independent detective took statements immediately after the shooting while jkf was still in hospital, so many said they smelt gun powered at street level and saw hickey with a weapon. Any statements pointing to the secret service were not called to testify. The doctors performing the autopsy were sworen to secrecy but later came out saying how all photos and notes were seized by the secret service and never seen again, the xray technician was told to fake xrays. Theres loads more I cant think of right now.

Boombastic

Noo wrote: »

What about all the people not called to testify at the warren comission. An independent detective took statements immediately after the shooting while jkf was still in hospital, so many said they smelt gun powered at street level and saw hickey with a weapon. Any statements pointing to the secret service were not called to testify. The doctors performing the autopsy were sworen to secrecy but later came out saying how all photos and notes were seized by the secret service and never seen again, the xray technician was told to fake xrays. Theres loads more I cant think of right now.

Just watching a thing on JFK on Nat geo (I think) the other day. The spooks removed the body from the hospital without the consent of the head doctor. The body was on air force in one condition and taken off in another. The wound in his head came from the front and was tampered eith to make it look like an exit wound. The doctors testified that the pictures of his head wound before the autopsy, are not the same headwounds they saw...I must see can I fibd a link, it was quite interesting

Balaclava1991

Conas wrote: »

Kennedy reacts, but Connolly actually says 'oh no no no' as he turns, then he shouts 'oh my god they're going to kill us all'.

You see I can't keep typing this in ever message and reply, about when Connolly said he was hit when he reviewed the film himself. He said he wasn't hit by the first shot that hit Kennedy in the throat. It's up to other people to come to their own conclusions, and say what they believe. I just think it's ridiculous to disagree with what John Connolly said, the man who was sitting in front of JFK on the motorcade trip. It would be like me seeing a murder unfold in front of my very eyes, and then a Garda comes along and tells me it wasn't that way at all. Despite me being there to witness it, and he wasn't. Who would you believe, me the witness or the Garda? I think the vast majority of people would believe me.

The physical evidence shows that the same bullet struck both men.
The physical evidence shows what ACTUALLY happened as opposed to what a witness THOUGHT happened.
Do you see the difference?
If I think the world is flat and I see a picture of the globe from space then I have to change what I think don't I?

That's an astonishing statement to make. Bill Newman hasn't changed his story in over 50 years. He said on TV that day when interviewed that the shots came from the knoll, and he has never changed his mind.

So what?
The physical evidence shows that Kennedy was shot in the neck and head from the 6th floor window.
There is no physical evidence whatsoever of a shooter from the knoll.
Numerous other witnesses including people who were on the knoll who would have been mere yards from the position of a supposed knoll shooter saw nobody.

Like I said he was the closest person to the murder, and the head-shot.

That proves nothing.

To think he wasn't even called before the Commission is astounding. Bill Newman was in Dallas on the scene of the crime, what member of the Warren Commission was in Dallas? None of them, hence they had no right to trump his testimony, and as everyone knows he wasn't the only person who thought the shots came from the knoll, You can even see Visual and Recorded evidence of people running up the Grassy Knoll after the shooting.

You are complaining about ignoring the evidence of Bill Newman but you continually ignore the physical evidence that proves that Kennedy was shot from the Texas School Book Depository.

Like I said, it's remarkable you can tell the height of a person, looking at them six stories up in a large building. I myself wouldn't be able to tell a person's height, if he was standing 20ft away from me on ground level.

Howard Brennan and numerous other witnesses got a very good look at Oswald before and during the shooting.
Brennan's testimony is corroborated by two coworkers of Oswald who were on the fifth floor window beneath.
They heard three shots, the rattle of the rifle bolt and the spent hulls rattle on the floor.
Three spent hulls were found which were proven to have come from Oswald's gun and the bullet found on Connally's stretcher and the two bullet fragments found in the limo were matched to his gun.

Who else did the shooting but Oswald?

HansHolzel

Gerald Posner, author of Case Closed and mainstay of a 2003 BBC documentary, The Kennedy Assassination: Beyond Conspiracy, fronted by Gavin Esler, was forced to resign from The Daily Beast in 2010, following his exposure as a plagiarist.

stevejazzx

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The physical evidence shows that the same bullet struck both men.
The physical evidence shows what ACTUALLY happened as opposed to what a witness THOUGHT happened.

Physical evidence?
As we know the body was moved after initial examination; however the doctors from the initial examination have gone on record saying that there was a blown out wound towards the back of Kennedy's head, consistent with entry from front.

b wrote:

Do you see the difference?
If I think the world is flat and I see a picture of the globe from space then I have to change what I think don't I?

That is not quite the same as what we have here as results from the official autopsy (which was controlled by various Government agencies) there was ample time and motive (to conclude a lone gunman) to tamper with or obscure evidence. So we cannot falsify it like we can the shape of the earth. In fact the opposite, as some records and pictures have been lost, the brain is missing, the coffin was burned and commander appointed to do the autopsy was apparently under qualified for such an important task.

So what?
There is no physical evidence whatsoever of a shooter from the knoll.
Numerous other witnesses including people who were on the knoll who would have been mere yards from the position of a supposed knoll shooter saw nobody.

That's not exactly true. Plenty of people claim to have seen mysterious characters in the shape of 'false secret service men', the famous 'three tramps' (debunked I believe) and suspect 'railway workers'. Of course the nature and intent of any these persons is speculation as no one was caught. However, added with very convincing testimony evidence of shots heard in that area it cannot be ruled out that shooters were there.

Howard Brennan and numerous other witnesses got a very good look at Oswald before and during the shooting.
Brennan's testimony is corroborated by two coworkers of Oswald who were on the fifth floor window beneath.
They heard three shots, the rattle of the rifle bolt and the spent hulls rattle on the floor.
Three spent hulls were found which were proven to have come from Oswald's gun and the bullet found on Connally's stretcher and the two bullet fragments found in the limo were matched to his gun.

Who else did the shooting but Oswald?

It's so odd that you are ignoring, as a reasonable person, all the testimony about shots from the Grassy Knoll. Isn't it possible shots came from the Grassy Knoll and the Book depository, or are we dismissing the mountain of testimony from Grassy Knoll and keeping the only Testimony of those at the Book depository?

Balaclava1991

stevejazzx wrote: »

Physical evidence?
As we know the body was moved after initial examination; however the doctors from the initial examination have gone on record saying that there was a blown out wound towards the back of Kennedy's head, consistent with entry from front.

Did you make the model out of play dough?

The autopsy photos, the autopsy x-rays and the testimony of the autopsy doctors demonstrate that Kennedy was shot in the back of the head and the bullet exploded the right side of his skull.

That is not quite the same as what we have here as results from the official autopsy (which was controlled by various Government agencies) there was ample time and motive (to conclude a lone gunman) to tamper with or obscure evidence. So we cannot falsify it like we can the shape of the earth. In fact the opposite, as some records and pictures have been lost, the brain is missing, the coffin was burned and commander appointed to do the autopsy was apparently under qualified for such an important task.

This is Outer Limits nonsense.

Hundreds if not thousands people across many government agencies would have to have been involved and NONE of the blew to conspiracy wide open in 50 years?

Ridiculous.

That's not exactly true. Plenty of people claim to have seen mysterious characters in the shape of 'false secret service men', the famous 'three tramps' (debunked I believe) and suspect 'railway workers'. Of course the nature and intent of any these persons is speculation as no one was caught. However, added with very convincing testimony evidence of shots heard in that area it cannot be ruled out that shooters were there.

The forensic evidence proves three shots were fired and two shots hit their mark.

Photographs and films of the assassination show no gunman on the grassy knoll, witnesses who were standing on the knoll saw no gunman or heard any shots and no person was apprehended, no gun or spent shells were ever found.

There was no grass knoll shooter.

It's so odd that you are ignoring, as a reasonable person, all the testimony about shots from the Grassy Knoll. Isn't it possible shots came from the Grassy Knoll and the Book depository, or are we dismissing the mountain of testimony from Grassy Knoll and keeping the only Testimony of those at the Book depository?

What mountain of evidence?

There is NO evidence.

Boombastic

@Balaclava, what do you make of the 'v-shaped' incision on his hairline right side in the 2nd picture you posted? Looks awful neat to me!

Noo

Boombastic wrote: »

Just watching a thing on JFK on Nat geo (I think) the other day. The spooks removed the body from the hospital without the consent of the head doctor. The body was on air force in one condition and taken off in another. The wound in his head came from the front and was tampered eith to make it look like an exit wound. The doctors testified that the pictures of his head wound before the autopsy, are not the same headwounds they saw...I must see can I fibd a link, it was quite interesting

Yeah they (cant remember who exactly, there was a lot of info to take in) showed the doc the entry points and he said they were wrong and told them where they really were.

The statement from the xray tech years later basically describes the whole autopsy as a complete farce.

If anyone can find it watch "jfk: the smoking gun"(broadcast nov 2013, I think there are older documentaries of the same name) and I urge you not to be convinced.

stevejazzx

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Did you make the model out of play dough?

Nope. I didn't make it all.
The model is merely to show the perceived angle of entry from the initial doctors who examined Kennedy (who are on record) and the latter.
The substance from which the model is made is really of no regard.

This is Outer Limits nonsense.

Hundreds if not thousands people across many government agencies would have to have been involved and NONE of the blew to conspiracy wide open in 50 years?

Ridiculous.

Assuming your ignorance in relation to my meaning - which on balance seems hard to believe - my obvious intention was not to, contrary to your bizarre perception, imply that thousands of government employees were involved in this conspiracy.
Part of the mystery of the modern day debunker is that his/her apparent clear-sightedness in respect of debunking conspiracies appears to dissolve when imagining the fabrication of said conspiracies. Try to imagine methodologies more sophisticated than simply firing off a memo to thousands of employees about the conspiracy you have just initiated.
If you wish to argue against such ridiculous scenarios then go ahead; I'm completely on your side in relation to such.

b wrote:

The forensic evidence proves three shots were fired and two shots hit their mark.

This is not clear cut at all.
The audio debunking of more than 3 shots fored is only accurate if the shots came from roughly the same place. The echo and wavelenght matching obviously won't correlate with respect of shots coming from locations which are are at unequal distances from the recorder.
Because of this there is much uncertainty as to the number of shots fired.
Coupled with the injuries sustained it seems that questioning the 3 shots in total official record and the magic bullet theory seems entirely reasonable.

Photographs and films of the assassination show no gunman on the grassy knoll, witnesses who were standing on the knoll saw no gunman or heard any shots and no person was apprehended, no gun or spent shells were ever found. There was no grass knoll shooter.

This is an odd statement re: witnesses - see here

http://22november1963.org.uk/jfk-assassination-grassy-knoll-witnesses

There were of course many witnesses to sounds coming from the Knoll area.
To expect a picture of gunman/men who no doubt, if they existed at all, would obviously not have been in plain sight, is optimistic to say the least.
To equate a lack of a photo of a gunman as evidence of no gunman is not good thinking.

b wrote:

What mountain of evidence?

There is NO evidence.

The word I used in the section that you quoted me on, was testimony, careful in fact to avoid using the word 'evidence' so as to assure you I was not mixing up 'testimony' for 'evidence'.
Let us not forget that I was replying to your use of testimony as evidence (where you cite witnesses to the book depository shooter as evidence).
This is in itself a quite an incredible double standard on your behalf but you've outdone yourself by asking for the evidence of the testimony that you have clearly stated, in earlier parts of this debate, cannot be evidence (except when included by you to support the official theory). Whether this is a trick or
you are really just quite forgetful is hard judge.

Conas

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The physical evidence shows that the same bullet struck both men.
The physical evidence shows what ACTUALLY happened as opposed to what a witness THOUGHT happened.
Do you see the difference?
If I think the world is flat and I see a picture of the globe from space then I have to change what I think don't I?

Quiet frankly that's just an ignorant statement. You weren't in Dealey Plaza. People like Bill Newman, Jean Hill, John Connolly, James Teague, The rail-road workers on the triple overpass all were. Jesse Ventura once said on his TV show about the JFK assassination, 'You can gather up all the evidence in the world, and they just don't want to listen'. I couldn't agree more with that statement.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

So what?
The physical evidence shows that Kennedy was shot in the neck and head from the 6th floor window.
There is no physical evidence whatsoever of a shooter from the knoll.
Numerous other witnesses including people who were on the knoll who would have been mere yards from the position of a supposed knoll shooter saw nobody.

Despite so many people saying they heard shots from the grassy knoll, smelt gunpowder, seen smoke, flashes of light.

Just remember Kennedy's head went backwards and to the left, and now they tell us that he had a muscle spasm in his neck that caused it, will you give me a break. Just remember the speed and power of a bullet, what ever direction it comes from, it's going to push you in that direction, due to the sheer force of the impact. They also said his head moved slightly forward, well guess why that was, because the idiot driver had his foot on the brake.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

That proves nothing.

Yeah Bill Newman, the closest person to the headshot, and the murder, his eye witness testimony proves nothing. I don't know why I'd even address this comment, as it speaks for itself.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

You are complaining about ignoring the evidence of Bill Newman but you continually ignore the physical evidence that proves that Kennedy was shot from the Texas School Book Depository.

I'm not ignoring any evidence as a matter of fact, you are the one that's ignoring the evidence. I never once said that Kennedy or Connolly weren't shot from the Texas School Book Depository, shots came from there, but I don't believe Oswald fired the shots. Kennedy was no doubt shot in the back from there, and Connolly was no doubt shot from there too. But I firmly believe that the throat shot, and the head shot came from the Grassy Knoll.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Howard Brennan and numerous other witnesses got a very good look at Oswald before and during the shooting.
Brennan's testimony is corroborated by two coworkers of Oswald who were on the fifth floor window beneath.
They heard three shots, the rattle of the rifle bolt and the spent hulls rattle on the floor.
Three spent hulls were found which were proven to have come from Oswald's gun and the bullet found on Connally's stretcher and the two bullet fragments found in the limo were matched to his gun.

Who else did the shooting but Oswald?

Given the Pandemonium of the whole situation in Dealey Plaza, I find it impossible to believe they got a good look at Oswald during the shooting, I find it impossible to believe that they were able to look up, and tell his height. I also find it impossible to believe that just after you've murdered the most important man in the country, the President, that he'd go into the second floor lunch room, and start drinking a coke.

You ask me who did the shooting? The CIA did the shooting, and used Oswald as their patsy. The same way in the Ambassador Hotel, the CIA also murdered Bobby Kennedy his brother, and used Sirhan Sirhan as there patsy.

Steve F

With the 50th Anniversary coming up there are going to be plenty of progs on Sky covering this topic.Just watch as many as you can,you'll see that it was LHO was the lone assassin

Conas

Steve F wrote: »

With the 50th Anniversary coming up there are going to be plenty of progs on Sky covering this topic.Just watch as many as you can,you'll see that it was LHO was the lone assassin

I watched Piers Morgan two night ago, and all the guests he had on were pro-Warren Commission. The mainstream media have always been pro-Warren Commission, and always will be. They ignore everything else. Mainstream media will go into overdrive up until the 22nd of November, in backing the goverment's version of events. So what do you expect?

It's no wonder the world is in the mess that it's in. People believe everything they're told.

weisses

Conas wrote: »

I watched Piers Morgan two night ago, and all the guests he had on were pro-Warren Commission. The mainstream media have always been pro-Warren Commission, and always will be. They ignore everything else. Mainstream media will go into overdrive up until the 22nd of November, in backing the goverment's version of events. So what do you expect?

It's no wonder the world is in the mess that it's in. People believe everything they're told.

That's why releasing those countless papers on the assassination would be of much help ... either way

The fact they are still being withheld after 50 years is a conspiracy on its own

Conas

weisses wrote: »

That's why releasing those countless papers on the assassination would be of much help ... either way

The fact they are still being withheld after 50 years is a conspiracy on its own

The same way Warren Commissioner Gerald Ford admitted the CIA destroyed or withheld critical evidence to the JFK assassination, and that's not even a conspiracy, it's FACT!

How dare the CIA destroy evidence, the same way they destroyed the evidence of all the torture they did during the War on Terror to cover their own ass. The CIA has always been a law onto themselves. Even it's creator Harry Truman admitted being deeply trouble by the conduct of the CIA in December of 1963.

What a rotten, disgusting, and evil agency.

Steve F

Watch the above on Youtube from approx 10 mins in,let me know your thoughts guys:)

david75

Kennedy had made some alarming comments about the military industrial complex and wanting to dismantle it. He knowingly rocked the boat that he was sitting in. No way were they gonna let him move against them. I think they took him out.

Oswald was just a patsy.


Here's Kennedy on the MIC
http://youtu.be/VvQ2FUwvcqw

DublinWriter

Conas wrote: »

Just remember Kennedy's head went backwards and to the left, and now they tell us that he had a muscle spasm in his neck that caused it, will you give me a break. Just remember the speed and power of a bullet, what ever direction it comes from, it's going to push you in that direction, due to the sheer force of the impact.

Complete and utter BS.

Hang the body of a dead pig from a height, shoot it with a full-metal jacket round and the bullet won't make it sway one way or another.

One thing that always puzzled me was that the two shots shown in the Zapruder film seem to be from two different types of bullet.

The first shot (just as the JFK's Limo emerges from behind the street sign) strikes both JFK and Connally. The fact that it goes through JFK once and JC twice and is found relatively intact suggests that this was a full-metal jacket type round.

The second fatal head shot was made with a hollow-point (or dum-dum) round where the point of the bullet collapses upon initial impact and the leading edge turns slug-shaped in order to cause a maximum amount of trauma.

If two types of rounds were used, then one could infer that two weapons were used.

This guy has done some very good research -
http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/forensic.htm

DublinWriter

david75 wrote: »

Kennedy had made some alarming comments about the military industrial complex and wanting to dismantle it. He knowingly rocked the boat that he was sitting in. No way were they gonna let him move against them. I think they took him out.

True, however I think this is pure disinformation and counter-intelligence.

E Howard Hunt's (ex-CIA man and convicted Watergate burglar) deathbed confession, for me, answered a lot of questions and undoubtedly placed LBJ as the chief culprit.

JFK and LBJ mutually detested each other. It was JFK's original intention to have his brother run on the same ticket. LBJ had an almost 'maniacal' will to power. The suggestion is that he used his close friendship with Hoover to blackmail JFK to have him put on the same ticket running as Vice-President.

LBJ was probably the most travelled of all the American VPs as the Kennedys kept him abroad and out of Washington during his first year in office. It was likely that JFK would get a second term and that his brother Robert would serve a further two.

Conas

DublinWriter wrote: »

Complete and utter BS.

Hang the body of a dead pig from a height, shoot it with a full-metal jacket round and the bullet won't make it sway one way or another.

No, it's not complete and utter BS at all. You are trying to compare the reactions of a dead pig hanging that's right hanging from a height, to a human being sitting upright in a limo.

DublinWriter wrote: »

The first shot (just as the JFK's Limo emerges from behind the street sign) strikes both JFK and Connally. The fact that it goes through JFK once and JC twice and is found relatively intact suggests that this was a full-metal jacket type round.

John Connolly said he wasn't hit by the throat shot (the magic bullet) so nothing passed through JFK, it stayed in him according to Connolly's statement. The Warren Commission said the magic bullet was a three-centimeter (1.2")-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5-millimeter rifle bullet. But since I don't believe the Warren Commission, god only knows what kind of sniper rifle, and bullet were actually used.

DublinWriter wrote: »

The second fatal head shot was made with a hollow-point (or dum-dum) round where the point of the bullet collapses upon initial impact and the leading edge turns slug-shaped in order to cause a maximum amount of trauma.

If two types of rounds were used, then one could infer that two weapons were used.

Could be, but what I'm interested in knowing is where do you think the fatal head shot came from then? If you believe that two weapons were used, I'm guessing you do believe there was a conspiracy?

Steve F

Steve F wrote: »

Watch the above on Youtube from approx 10 mins in,let me know your thoughts guys:)

Bumped Anyone watched the above clip yet?

DexyDrain

Steve F wrote: »

Bumped Anyone watched the above clip yet?

Yes, the bit about a possible 'sniper in the drain'? The Nix film seems to eliminate this possibility as the drain is visible at the time of the assassination and no gun or muzzle flash are visible. It's also a really ****ty angle to try and shoot someone passing above in a moving car.

MonaPizza

DublinWriter wrote: »

Complete and utter BS.

Hang the body of a dead pig from a height, shoot it with a full-metal jacket round and the bullet won't make it sway one way or another.

One thing that always puzzled me was that the two shots shown in the Zapruder film seem to be from two different types of bullet.

The first shot (just as the JFK's Limo emerges from behind the street sign) strikes both JFK and Connally. The fact that it goes through JFK once and JC twice and is found relatively intact suggests that this was a full-metal jacket type round.

The second fatal head shot was made with a hollow-point (or dum-dum) round where the point of the bullet collapses upon initial impact and the leading edge turns slug-shaped in order to cause a maximum amount of trauma.

If two types of rounds were used, then one could infer that two weapons were used.

This guy has done some very good research -
http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/forensic.htm

Oh boy, this is comical. You clearly haven't a clue about the most fundamental features of physics and applied mathematics. Inter-cert science would have taught you the basics of stable, unstable and neutral bodies at rest.

hang the body of a dead pig :pac: