Running Diesel cars on Vegatable Oil?

Lazairus

yes it is,

its actually one guy , hes from kinsale, he sells heat exchangers , and its a good
exchanger , just check your pump first if its a Lucas , its useless(you need a second tank), Bosch or similar is whats needed , to check what pump you have go to http://www.elsbett.com/ie/online-shop.html , find your car , it will tell you what pump you have ,

its quiet easy to install , if you cant travel to kinsale, then ring them !>.

once installed , it runs fine.

JA12

Anyone who lives in Meath is lucky in this respect.

Royal Biofuels in Athboy sell biodiesel at 95c pl

(2nd right on the Oldcastle road)

Modern diesels and some older models can be run on biodiesel with no modification. Just phase your car in, i.e. fill the tank full with diesel, every 100-200 miles top up the tank with biodiesel.

After a few fills your car will be runnin on 100% biodiesel.

J.

vavavoom

Biodiesel in vehicles worked with lower toxic emissions and no alterations are needed to your car I have first hand experience of this from 2 of my friends who use it in south africa , another device called the Fuelstar fuel catalyst is also a product that reduces fuel consumption by createing a longer and more complete burn of the fuel , tin is the main ingredient in the product it does almost the same a what lead did to petrol without the toxic effects as tin is completely non toxic.

zod

good video on biofuels here http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=NMB8-8tPuWE

biko

McD will start using biofuel in their trucks.
If they start maybe a lot of others will follow. Worth it's own thread I think.

bushy...

vavavoom wrote:

, another device called the Fuelstar fuel catalyst is also a product that reduces fuel consumption by createing a longer and more complete burn of the fuel , tin is the main ingredient in the product it does almost the same a what lead did to petrol without the toxic effects as tin is completely non toxic.

Stannosis n a few more ?

thebookofbob

Not sure anyone is still looking at this threat but just to add a spanner to the works, I've been running a 2000 VW Passat TDi PD(115) S on at least 60% oil ( 90% in the summer ). I use Lidl's finest & this has done me the last 3 years ( over 120,000 miles due to commute distance ). The engine is in great shape. I haven't changed a fuel filter in 60K but oil changes are done 9K on the ball ahead of the recommended 10K. In the winter I add a small amount of unleaded if the temp drops low. The car has over 200K miles on the clock. It still hovers around the 50MPG mark if I'm not flooring it. The performance is still as was when I bought it.

matrixroyal

Just heard on the news that Motor Tax is likely to go up for all engines over 1.6 litre.
Thinking of converting my diesel engine to take vegetable oil.

Would it have any effect on the annual motor tax due ?

Taildragon

AFAICMO, tax concessions (road tax & VRT) are currently available for new vehicles only, unfortunately. An older car which has been converted to run on renewables has to be more environmentally acceptable than a new one, but "policing" that would be a tad too complex for our Revenue....

Would you consider a smaller car? I run a 1.4 diesel on PPO with 60-70 mpg return.

abakan

Ive just read this article on biodiesel, vegtable oil as a fuel,

but at the bottom I said that in the UK, from July on, users of less than 2500 liters of diodiesel dont have to pay any road tax.

http://www.wasteless.co.uk/html/veggieconversion.htm

wonder will that come into Ireland anytime soon

Anyone add kerosene to their diesel? My car manual says your supposed to at certain temperatures (sub zero - we dont get it here) but interesting that you can run up to 30% kerosene in the fuel.

So... is this legal in Ireland?

Kerosene is thinner than diesel so would be perfect for mixing with veg oil.

Taildragon

Taildragon wrote: »

Would you consider a smaller car? I run a 1.4 diesel on PPO with 60-70 mpg return.

is it a common rail?
What kind of fuel pump if not a common rail?
Do you have any modifications? Or do you blend fuels?

abakan

just heard of a man in the area that runs his VW caddy van on a mix of kerosene and vegtable oil.

the best bit was that he was once dipped by customs using the same mix and they passed him, he couldn believe it

why is it illegal to put kerosene in your car here? do you know what % hew mixed to get the same viscosity as diesel? What year is the van? is it a direct injection? a newer common rail or an old indirect injection?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOFbsaNeZps


TOP GEAR Episode with a car running on vegetable oil

vibe666

righto ladies and gents, this time next week I'll have a nice 96 Pajero LWB 2.8 DCi to play with and I fully intend to get as much veggie oil in the 100L (christ, I hope I never have to fill it at a pump!) tank as I can.

I'm picking it up next saturday morning and bringing it over here from Liverpool. I've decided to bite the bullet on the VRT rather than risk it so should the time come everything (apart from the veggie side of things) will be above board.

I'm just wondering if anyone has got any sense out of customs yet about running a car on veggie oil? I know in the UK it's a bit of a mess, but here it still seems like they don't even know what to make of it, never mind actually caring about taxing you for what you put in the tank if it doesn't come from a forecourt pump.

a couple of questions if anyone knows tho, before I start.

I've read that veggie oil should give me the same or even slightly better fuel economy than dino diesel as well as a very minor boost in performance and quieter running/no black smoke, but someone told me the other day that they'd seen several reports of proper refined biodiesel giving significantly worse fuel economy for some reason. I can't see how that could be, but I thought I'd ask.

I plan on getting one of the heat exchanger yokes off Dylan the 'future oils' guy in Cork which should make life easier, but for now at least (in the cold weather we're having) a 30-40% oil and 60% diesel mix to start with the unmodified setup seems to certainly be possible.

I guess I'll let everybody know how I get on.

Capt'n Midnight

was an article in New Scientist a while back about palm oil.
Or rather the destruction of Indonesian bogs to create palm oil plantations. The CO2 released from the bog because the acidic water is no longer preventing decomposition is more than you could save over 150 years of palm oil replacing fossil fuel. Something like 7% of human caused CO2 release is from forest fires and other natural clearances from that area. And because of the high population there it's still below our average of emissions per capita.

Anyone think we will still be using fossil oil as a primary fuel in 150 years time - 'cos if not then palm oil is worse than it environmentally even before you take into account biodiversity and habitat loss. And the situation over there is like you would expect there. It's against the law to drain the the bogs, but the companies have official permits form the government - do they trump the laws - academic really because by the time it all goes to a tribunal most of the bogs will have gone.

jobrok1

I read recently that algae and seaweed is being looked at instead of plant crops to produce biodiesel.

They have a very high oil content, which is what allows them to float in water.

They thrive in polluted waters so can be combined with waste treatment plants and can produce up to 30 times more biofuel per acre than standard crops depending on the species used.


.............................................................................................

Wikipedia info...

Algaculture
Main article: Algaculture
From 1978 to 1996, the U.S. National Renewable Energy Laboratory experimented with using algae as a biodiesel source in the "Aquatic Species Program".[51] A self-published article by Michael Briggs, at the UNH Biodiesel Group, offers estimates for the realistic replacement of all vehicular fuel with biodiesel by utilizing algae that have a natural oil content greater than 50%, which Briggs suggests can be grown on algae ponds at wastewater treatment plants.[41] This oil-rich algae can then be extracted from the system and processed into biodiesel, with the dried remainder further reprocessed to create ethanol.

The production of algae to harvest oil for biodiesel has not yet been undertaken on a commercial scale, but feasibility studies have been conducted to arrive at the above yield estimate. In addition to its projected high yield, algaculture — unlike crop-based biofuels — does not entail a decrease in food production, since it requires neither farmland nor fresh water. Some companies[5][6] are pursuing algae bio-reactors for various purposes, including biodiesel production.

On May 11, 2006 the Aquaflow Bionomic Corporation in Marlborough, New Zealand announced that it had produced its first sample of bio-diesel fuel made from algae found in sewage ponds.[27] Unlike previous attempts, the algae was naturally grown in pond discharge from the Marlborough District Council's sewage treatment works."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algaculture

vibe666

wow, that's pretty impressive, thanks for the post jobrok.

I wonder if there's anything salt water based that could be used. There's plenty of sea out there that could be useful and there's also the added depth factor to increase yield.

Capt'n Midnight

Depth isn't much use since the if the algae are using the sunlight properly they will block most of the light. low greenhoused ponds - polyethylene tube partially filled with water and lots of sunlight, might be possible to have a continuous stream with the tube in a very long loop

and of course the algae take carbon dioxide out of the air.

Ideally you could use the waste heat, and carbon dioxide of a power plant - possibly some of the ash too.

But it's very inefficient compared to photovolatic combined with electric cars - just need to invent proper storage batteries

vibe666

thanks for the info Capt'n, I knew there'd be something simple like that getting in the way.

more efficient solar panels would help too.

altho I did see something the other day about infra-red solar panels that would even work at night, except they're having trouble harnessing the energy from them.

from engadget
Solar's had a pretty rough time breaking the ~40% efficiency level over the years, but Idaho National Laboratory researchers have apparently developed a nano-antenna array capable of collecting power not from photonic energy as is done today, but from infrared energy that could be harvested in any weather (or even at night). The cell production process is even supposed to be ridiculously cheap compared to making standard silicon photovoltaic cells, but, as always, there's a rub. The grid collects its oscillating IR energy at ten thousand billion times per second, which is proving to be a challenge to the nerds behind the tech, who are working on a way to convert that to the 50-60Hz power that the world uses.

ah well. maybe one day.

jobrok1

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But it's very inefficient compared to photovolatic combined with electric cars - just need to invent proper storage batteries

Yes! PV Electric Cars would be the ideal solution, but until then the world will still need oil-fuel.

I believe that a company in South Africa has set up a bio-reactor facility to grow algea at an optimum rate, feeding it whatever nutrients it needs and providing it with sufficient light. From what I can gather, it's far quicker and way more efficient that waiting for farmed crops to grow and convert to bio-diesel.

Even if this method is just used for the short term, ie. 10-20 years, wouldn't it help with a lot of the energy change over problems for a while.
There would be no need to take food crops away from the food markets.
And no need for forests to be burned out to clear land for palm oil crops, etc.

It just sounds like a more sensible approach to producing bio-diesel than what is currently going on.

vibe666

i firmly believe that there's going to be a lot more ways of skinning the environmental cat in the future. who know's what we'll be driving in 10-20 years time, or what it will be powered by.

look how far we've come in the last 20 years.

anyway, I still want my hover car. damn you moller!!!

Overature

it works all right but you need to rig your car so that you have something to heat the oil up. oil is thicker than diesel and needs to be thinned out if you want to get it to run properly, heating the oil up makes it thinner (turning in to a gas)

Capt'n Midnight

vibe666 wrote:

look how far we've come in the last 20 years.

very confused

We have petrol hybrids that get the same milage as diesel engine cars. While modern 21st century petrol engines using atkins or other modified cycle are a few percent more efficient than older petrol engines they still aren't as efficiency as Diesel engines designed in the 19th century.

As for electric - back in the 19th century the fastest car was electric, first car past 100Km/hr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente
Had they todays lower weight lithium batteries it would probably go even faster. Seriously the only thing stopping the electric car is battery technology.

All I can see in the last 20 years are more electronics in cars, carberouters being replaced by fuel injection, catalytic convertors all being clamped on the same old engines. The engines get fancy names and makeovers but IIRC the ford Zetec was based on a 20 year old design.

vibe666

i was being intentionally vague and (kind of) just talking in general terms, not just automotively speaking. mainly because I don't really have an argument that I can back up with any kind of proof.

Capt'n, I'm starting to think you might be my g/f as I can never win an argument with her either. coming at me from all angles with facts and truth and that kind of stuff, I just can't defend against that kind of thing!

Capt'n Midnight

vibe666 wrote: »

Capt'n, I'm starting to think you might be my g/f as I can never win an argument with her either. coming at me from all angles with facts and truth and that kind of stuff, I just can't defend against that kind of thing!

LOL

OK, here's a beauty just for you
Over 200 years ago François Isaac de Rivaz made a car with electric ignition. That's right, hydrogen powered cars have been around since 1807


http://www.linternaute.com/histoire/jour/evenement/31/1/1/a/53710/0/francois_isaac_de_rivaz_depose_le_brevet_du_moteur_a_explosion.shtml or possibly 1805

http://www.eoearth.org/article/De_Rivaz,_François_Isaac picture is of a later 1813 model

Húrin

kestrel wrote: »

is vegetable oil better for the environment? if so, by how much in comparision to unleaded, leaded and diesel? i'm so happy

No, all biofuels are as bad as or worse than petrol for the environment.

vibe666

Húrin wrote: »

No, all biofuels are as bad as or worse than petrol for the environment.

do you have any evidence of this Húrin? there's a lot of information out there pointing to the contrary.

carveone

vibe666 wrote: »

do you have any evidence of this Húrin? there's a lot of information out there pointing to the contrary.

Perhaps if he quantified the statement. Biofuels as implemented by uninterested, self-serving 1st world governments and their overfed, mindless populace, are bad for the environment

The EU governments could care less about the planet as long as it looks like it is doing something "green". With the exception of asking their population to make any sacrifices of course. That might not get them elected again.

Sorry. Capt'n Midnight posted about Indonesia + I've been watching too much Fiorsceal recently = me being incensed.

who know's what we'll be driving in 10-20 years time, or what it will be powered by

Horse. Grass

Aside: I loved the quote from a Fiorsceal episode a month or so back about the end of the oil era. "I think the post oil era will be a very nice place to live. For the survivors anyway."