Running Diesel cars on Vegatable Oil?

flasher

StonedParadoX wrote:

trap4 if your really serious about converting your car to veggie oil
leave me a msg and ill give u my dads home number he owns eilish oils

he runs his car on veggie oil he owns a small business and has some onverted trucks and cars with the Cork county council

Flasher here: that would be usefull to speak to someone who knows about this stuff i would appreciate if you would pass it on to me to please and thankyou.

ComDubh

I've been planning to convert my diesel Passat 1.9 TDi to vegetable oil for a while and have talked to various companies about this. My intention is to use the Elsbett conversion kit -- they currently provide a 2-tank solution for this type of car but a 1-tank solution is on the way apparently.

I read the many positive experiences people have had with this type of conversion, but in most cases it has been with a relatively old car which is probably more tolerant of the more viscious fuel.

My Passat is a 2003 model and cost me about 20k a few months ago. I'm reluctant to be the first to discover that straight vegetable oil will ruin the engine of a car this new :-) Has anyone here converted a car like this?

Other questions I have are:
- Do the maintenance intervals remain the same?
- Is the servicing job the same as before?
- Do most insurance companies baulk at the idea (yes, you do have to tell them!)

Any information/experiences very welcome!

Takeshi_Kovacs

ComDubh wrote:

I've been planning to convert my diesel Passat 1.9 TDi to vegetable oil for a while and have talked to various companies about this. My intention is to use the Elsbett conversion kit -- they currently provide a 2-tank solution for this type of car but a 1-tank solution is on the way apparently.

I read the many positive experiences people have had with this type of conversion, but in most cases it has been with a relatively old car which is probably more tolerant of the more viscious fuel.

My Passat is a 2003 model and cost me about 20k a few months ago. I'm reluctant to be the first to discover that straight vegetable oil will ruin the engine of a car this new :-) Has anyone here converted a car like this?

Other questions I have are:
- Do the maintenance intervals remain the same?
- Is the servicing job the same as before?
- Do most insurance companies baulk at the idea (yes, you do have to tell them!)

Any information/experiences very welcome!

Go to this forum and register. http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751
There are plenty of people on it that will answer any questionsyou have, and they will tell you their experiences good or bad.

From what i gather, German diesels are more suited to using veggie oil, once you have the oil very hot though (and that they use the more robust Bosch pump.). The Elsbett kit is tried and trusted, doubt you could go far wrong with it. Servicing should be the same, i'm not sure about the insurance side of things, but i assume it does not matter what fuel you are using (considering that veggie oil is non explosive and much less flammable than diesel or petrol, it is much safer fuel. I wonder would the insurance companies lower their premiums because of this )

I would go the diy veggie oil route myself, and let ye know how i get onbut unfortunately still no car....

vibe666

i'm just buying a 2002 nissan primera 2.2 diesel, so I'll be looking into this very seriously now to see what can be done. i'm thinking of going 50/50 for now and see how it runs but i was wondering how the engine management system would cope and if i would still get valid mpg figures etc. from it.

might have to sign up to that forum and see what i can find out. hopefully picking the car up tonight. won't know my comfort going to that from a 97 fiesta!

ComDubh

Thanks Takeshi, I looked at that link. It's most a technical discussion though; I'm looking for dumb end-user experiences

Once Elsbett produce a 1-tank solution for the 2003 130bhp Passat I'll probably go for it. As you say they've a good reputation and at some point you have to just take the risk.

vibe666

I still can't seem to find any conclusive evidence that my 2.2L Primera DCi can run on 50/50 Diesel/SVO. does anyone know of a good place with european/japanese vehicles listed as working okay with veg oil?

Green Driver

Vegetable oil as fuel in a 2003 Skoda Octavia

I have been using rapeseed oil in a 2004 diesel Skoda Octavia since April 2006 and I am pleased with the performance. I bought the Skoda second hand and I spent about €2,000 euro, including VAT, getting it adapted to run on pure vegetable oil.

I have the one tank system, so that means that I can use rapeseed oil, or diesel, or any mixture of the two. If I cannot get rapeseed oil, I can put diesel into my car.

It is recommended that in frosty weather, if you are using the 1 tank system, you should put some diesel into the car from time to time.

It was estimated early this year that after 30,000 miles using rapeseed oil I would have covered the €2,000 cost of the adaptation of my car to use vegetable oil.

If you are a good mechanic, you could buy the kit and install it yourself. There is a German company called Elsbett, http://www.elsbett.com/ which has been adapting diesel engines to run on vegetable oil for years. The kit in my car was supplied by them.

The car was adapted by Allen Holman (DAS Garage,Gorey, Co Wexford), http://www.ecocar.ie/, and Peter O'Neill (Kilpedder, Co Wicklow) http://www.ecomotion.ie/.

I buy rapeseed oil fuel for my car from Eilish Oils, http://www.eilishoils.com/
They sell the rapeseed oil in 1,000 litre plastic containers which you can put in your garden and get refilled by them as necessary. I call into a place in Dun Laoighaire owned by one of the directors of Eilish Oils and get my car filled there at 84 cent a litre.

Yoda

Hm. Is there much difference between a 1999 Škoda Octavia and a 2003/2004 Škoda Octavia?

Can you let us know the relative costs for the €2,000? How much for the kit, how much for the adaptation?

Yoda

Ah... Das Garage in Gorey http://www.dasgarage.com/ does it for €1650 + VAT.

Clare gunner

Hi all,
Am typing this from foggy Berlin.Was just down in a garage to get some diesel.This is rich.Normal Dino diesel is appx 85/90 cents per litre. BIO diesel is 1.18 cents/litre:eek: :eek: :eek: Why this?The green party in colation with Shroders socialists,saw that everyone was switching to bio diesel to save money and indirectly benefit the enviroment.But not the States coffers!! So on went a tax for bio fuels to bring it on par with the rest of the fuels.Plus the production costs are somwhat more,thus making it more expensive to produce.It is now cheaper to use normal diesel than bio diesel.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Mr Cowen ..please take note!Please take note!:rolleyes:

To the people who were on this thread over a year ago - how have you all benn getting on mixing vegetable oil with diesel etc

Neil_Sedaka

Yeah, would love to know too. How ye getting on?

banaman

Been reading your posts with a bit of dismay. You're all assuming that bio-diesels are environmentally sound BUT you have to grow and refine the fuel first.

Am in Scotland on holiday and found this in one of the reputable papers here,

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=914902007.

How much can Ireland grow sustainably?

After all there's no point having cleaner emissions to save the environment if you wreck said environment growing the stuff in the first place.
How much fertilizers, weed-killers etc does it take per ton of rape-seed?
How much energy does it take to produce a litre of fuel?

I know a guy who used to be in the sugar production/refining industry and he says that Brazil puts more energy into growing and refining ethanol from sugar cane than you get from it.

Sugar cane has a much higher sugar content than beet so it would be even less efficient to try to get ethanol from sugar beet - and ethanol is at best a petrol additive NOT an alternative.

It suits the oil companies to use ethanol/petrol and bio-diesel rather than look for real alternatives.

Watch "who killed the electric car?"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/

vibe666

banaman wrote:

Been reading your posts with a bit of dismay. You're all assuming that bio-diesels are environmentally sound BUT you have to grow and refine the fuel first.

if there is anyone posting here who is noble enough to be doing this solely for the environment then fair play to them, but i think it's a pretty safe bet to assume most of the poeple here are doing this (or at least talking about it) primarily to save money.

personally, if i was going headlong into this thing (i still haven't got off my hole to actually do anything about it, and currently I don't have thye space to do so) i would be using WVO from chippers etc. and filtering and converting it to bio rather than permanently using SVO so the source of the oil (in as far as the environment is concerned) is less of an issue, if anything im doing the environment a favour by not having all that WVO put back into the environment as is.

incidentally, whilst we're digging up the thread that won't die 'Corrigan Knows Food' Tuesdays 8:30pm (RTE1) has Richard Corrigan driving round talking about foody type stuff in a rapeseed oil powered 4x4. worth a look if you're interested in this sort of stuff. the last episode had a bit in it about rapeseed oil production and uses.

N8

biodiesel? No thanks

Top scientist says biofuels are scam
June 10 2007

Biofuel gangs kill for green profits
June 3 2007

vibe666

half price diesel? yes please! :rolleyes:

N8, if you'd read half the posts in this thread you wouldn't have wasted your time posting pointless links because you think you know what you're talking about.

i doubt anyone here is thinking of importing biodiesel from colombia or planting 50 hectares of rape so they can feel good about saving the world.

all people want to do is get something cheaper than it already is and pay a little less in taxes whilst feeling they got one up on the government by either converting their own waste oil into fuel rather than pouring it down a sink somewhere to eventually choke swans and ducks, or buy veg oil cheap in lidl and use it in their taxi's to save a few euro.

most people are far too busy worrying about themselves and trying to make a couple of extra euro for themselves to worry about what world superpowers are doing on the other side of the planet.

dbar

Thats where I am at, the saving money bit.
Heres my plan, I have brought a vintage Landrover in from the UK, classed vintage with a modern body on it. (Revenue go by the chassis) 50 Euro to register and 42 Euro tax per year. It has got a GMC 6.2 V8 diesel in it which I plan to convert to veg oil.
Reason for the 6.2 is that the yanks followed a different line of development on the diesels, instead of common rail, electronics, they just made them simple and big. Its a normally asperated engine, so perfect for conversion. Very robust and realible. Rated to run for up to a million miles.About 25 mpg if driven sanely.

Soooo,
If the plan works I will be driving a decent machine, cost efficient fuel, and best of all 42 euro tax per year. Thats how I am making my silent protest at the rip off taxs we pay here....

djmc

Nice one dbar

andy0

banaman wrote:

Am in Scotland on holiday and found this in one of the reputable papers here, ...

All the nonsense about the huge expense of crusher plants and transport costs make it sound like this is a totally new product with huge obstacles in its way.

Have they never seen cooking oil on a supermarket shelf?

How did it get there?

In fact, the crop energy yield is two or three times the amount used to grow it, with a bit of variation depending on whether the straw is burnt

vibe666

indeed.

if it was so expensive to poroduce SVO, then why does vegetable oil cost so much less?

aaahhhh, government taxes.

i heard somewhere on the radio last year when fuel prices were going up that half the cost of fuel is tax from the government, so that would (roughly) put SVO and Dino Diesel on and even playing field (when buying in bulk, give or take) so i'm still happy enough that it's the right move for me.

dbar, do you mind me asking where you found your land rover?

i've done some (albeit brief) looking around and couldn't find any (on ebay:)).

i did read that that engine is the one that the US use in hummers, so it can't be all that bad, although someone did mention that it's so powerful that there is a real risk of snapping an axle on the road if you put your foot right down. can't imagine that being too healthy, for you or the car.

sounds like a great idea tho, from a tax point of view. do you know what sort of criteria a vehicle would need to satisfy to be similarly rated tax wise?

andy0

Clare gunner wrote:

Hi all,
Am typing this from foggy Berlin.Was just down in a garage to get some diesel.This is rich.Normal Dino diesel is appx 85/90 cents per litre. BIO diesel is 1.18 cents/litre:eek: :eek: :eek: Why this?The green party in colation with Shroders socialists,saw that everyone was switching to bio diesel to save money and indirectly benefit the enviroment.But not the States coffers!! So on went a tax for bio fuels to bring it on par with the rest of the fuels.Plus the production costs are somwhat more,thus making it more expensive to produce.It is now cheaper to use normal diesel than bio diesel.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Mr Cowen ..please take note!Please take note!:rolleyes:

I was surprised when I read this the other day, as I'd always noticed biodiesel being cheaper in Germany, and wondered if I had missed something.

This morning in the Ruhr area biodiesel was 104.9 and petrodiesel 112.9 cents

doubledecker

HI,,, I've only been running my double decker bus on 100% veg. oil for a few weeks.. but 'tis running fine. I installed a two tank system (starting and finishing on diesel/biodiesel) with plenty of heating etc... Have been filtering waste vegetable oil for use, and as the bus is a catering kitchen, I'm lucky enough to be able to use my own WVO. It seems it is not so common in Ireland using Vegetable oil as a fuel, as it is in the UK and abroad, but now i've found this thread.. I may be wrong!!
I've contacted the customs and revenue,, and my querry's got their heads scratching, but what I got from them was that a user of vegetable oil, SVO or WVO, would have to pay 38 odd cents per litre poured into their tank, payable each 1000 lt. used..
Has anyone gone down this path,, paying the tax etc..... or got around it anyway, or another plan???
cheers....
keep the thread going!!!
Bryce
www.doubledecker.ie

jobrok1

Does anybody know if there is somewhere in the Crok city or North Cork county area that supplies BioDiesel???

I've been checking around but can't find anyone.

There surely must be a company around the city that does it.

doubledecker

jobrok1 wrote:

Does anybody know if there is somewhere in the Crok city or North Cork county area that supplies BioDiesel???

I've been checking around but can't find anyone.

There surely must be a company around the city that does it.

I also couldn't find anyone in Cork selling biodiesel.....
I've heard of a few farmers making and using their own biodiesel in the area, but nothing commercial.
A few places selling PPO, but not biodiesel...
There's talk of a large biodiesel plant set for Cork harbour,,, couple of years and we might have tons of the stuff here in Cork!:)

dbar

vibe666 wrote:

indeed.

if it was so expensive to poroduce SVO, then why does vegetable oil cost so much less?

aaahhhh, government taxes.

i heard somewhere on the radio last year when fuel prices were going up that half the cost of fuel is tax from the government, so that would (roughly) put SVO and Dino Diesel on and even playing field (when buying in bulk, give or take) so i'm still happy enough that it's the right move for me.

dbar, do you mind me asking where you found your land rover?

i've done some (albeit brief) looking around and couldn't find any (on ebay:)).

i did read that that engine is the one that the US use in hummers, so it can't be all that bad, although someone did mention that it's so powerful that there is a real risk of snapping an axle on the road if you put your foot right down. can't imagine that being too healthy, for you or the car.

sounds like a great idea tho, from a tax point of view. do you know what sort of criteria a vehicle would need to satisfy to be similarly rated tax wise?

Sorry for the slow reply, on holidays!
Yeah, it took me a long time to find it in the UK on Ebay. The landrover transmission can handle it as the Landrover petrol V8 has roughly the same output. The landrovers are an acquired taste, not to everyones liking. I have seen Vintage Rangerovers with retrofitted diesels, perfect for the job as well.
Basically to qualify for vintage the year of manufacture on the V5 (UK taxbook) must be over 30 yrs old and the chassis number must match the number on the V5. Thats basically it.
If you are coming to the cork area at any stage, PM me and Id be happy to take you for a spin!

maniac101

Regarding sourcing biodiesel in Cork, there's a petrol station in Ballyhay just south of Charleville who sell bioethanol, I'm not sure if they sell biodiesel though.

There's a company outside Bandon called GRO Oil who produce bio-diesel from rapeseed (www.gro-oil.ie). They’ve a capacity of around a million litres p.a. and much of this, if not all of it, is to be sold to Cork City Council, so I'm not sure if it's available to private road users. Either way, GRO Oil haven't succeeded in getting VAT exemption for their product, so for those of you who are looking to source a cheaper alternative to fossil diesel you'll need to look elsewhere. For those who want to be more friendly to the environment might I suggest a bicycle, because bio-diesel just aint environmentally sustainable at the moment.

irishsurfer

I have done a few podcasts with people at www.worldsurfradio.com involved with bio diesel in US and Ireland.

Youll find them on the archive at
http://worldsurf.libsyn.com/

Lazairus

Just converted my volswagon golf 95 , for 80 euro , and running it on veg oil 69 cents a letre great, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
no problems . let me know if any body wants to do it , ill advise them ,just mail me (private)

jobrok1

Where did you get it done?

Is the crowd in Riverstick? Future Oils...!!!
I found a link to their site only yesterday from another post on these forums.

http://santa.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055082867

http://www.futureoils.com

mikep

Hi

I don't know if this is the right place to put this...

This article is a bit spooky and I had never thought about the effect of growing maize for biofuel rather than food!!:eek:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18017.htm