Waterford City Boundary Extention into Co Kilkenny.

mike65

You may have seen the ads in the papers this week. The details can be found here

Main proposal and justification here

Mike.

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I bet the Killkennian's won't like that

Marcopolo85

mike65 wrote:

You may have seen the ads in the papers this week. The details can be found here

Main proposal and justification here

Mike.

Sure they're all bloody well working here - they may as well live here as well!!!!!

merlante

Very interesting, and very sensible. There'll be war over it though, although it is the best thing for everyone, all flag waving aside.

mike65

You can listen to a discussion on the subject on Liveline here (right click and Save As...) Scroll forward 31 mins.

Mike.

Cabaal

STOP invading Kilkenny!

Marcopolo85

Cabaal wrote:

STOP invading Kilkenny!

But sure they've been invading us for decades!! Payback!!!!!

mike65

South Kilkenny has been neglected disgracefully by the Burgurs in the City (town) for years and so should be glad we are happy to take you under our wing.

I'm sure the county jersey issues can be sorted out.

Mike.

merlante

mike65 wrote:

South Kilkenny has been neglected disgracefully by the Burgurs in the City (town) for years and so should be glad we are happy to take you under our wing.

I'm sure the county jersey issues can be sorted out.

Mike.

This is true. It's a pity that all of the advantages, in terms of getting cars taxed nearby, getting much cheaper disposal charges, getting better services, etc., will all be ignored in favour of hurling logic and flag waving! The people up in Kilkenny city/town couldn't care less about south Kilkenny, and consider it Waterford anyway, yet South Kilkenny are steadfastly loyal to Kilkenny Co. Council despite the abysmal provision of services, the dreadful roads they have been left with, and the scorn that those from the north of the county have for them.

The simply fact is that Waterford would do a lot more for south Kilkenny than Kilkenny ever would!

angry_fox

merlante wrote:

This is true. It's a pity that all of the advantages, in terms of getting cars taxed nearby, getting much cheaper disposal charges, getting better services, etc., will all be ignored in favour of hurling logic and flag waving! The people up in Kilkenny city/town couldn't care less about south Kilkenny, and consider it Waterford anyway, yet South Kilkenny are steadfastly loyal to Kilkenny Co. Council despite the abysmal provision of services, the dreadful roads they have been left with, and the scorn that those from the north of the county have for them.

The simply fact is that Waterford would do a lot more for south Kilkenny than Kilkenny ever would!

That is true, as long as they dont build a load of new council housing esates around Slieverue.

But part of me still think its wrong, for some reason.....

thund3rbird_

(going on another thread in here) the infamous McCann rears his ugly* head

*disclaimer - I've never seen, nor want to, a pic of him

Serious Q tho - is it possible he could object to something like this?

merlante

thund3rbird_ wrote:

(going on another thread in here) the infamous McCann rears his ugly* head

*disclaimer - I've never seen, nor want to, a pic of him

Serious Q tho - is it possible he could object to something like this?

You wouldn't know it, but there is actually a limit to his unelected, autocratic power. He only holds sway over the construction, knocking and modification of buildings.

The procedure for changing the boundary is roughly as follows,
a) The relevant councils try to agree on a boundary extension proposal. (not going to happen, but not actually required)
b) The proposal is submitted to the Minister for the Environment by one or both (all) councils.
c) The Minister for the Environment says yay or nay.
d) If the Minister agrees, it is submitted to the President, who then gives a yay or nay. (presumably the President goes along with the government)

odie

They are gonna have some job getting this through to Kilkenny county council.

Not to mention the The Peoples Republic Liberation Army of South Kilkenny.

Come on "The Stripey Men" Rise up, and take it to the Blaa's.

I can see the lads buying the pikes already. 1798 rebellion all over again.

Marcopolo85

odie wrote:

They are gonna have some job getting this through to Kilkenny county council.

Not to mention the The Peoples Republic Liberation Army of South Kilkenny.

Come on "The Stripey Men" Rise up, and take it to the Blaa's.

I can see the lads buying the pikes already. 1798 rebellion all over again.

South Kilkenny or Waterford.........fly and elephant comes to mind! They'll always need us way more than we'll ever need them!!

Norinoco

In fairness, the proposed amount of land waterford want to take completly exceeds the amount required to extend the city.

http://www.waterfordcity.ie/notices.htm

Its a case of been greedy.

Its nothing to do with being beneficial to people living just over the river from the city and all to do the getting the port of Waterford.

Its all about the money...

Waterford City Council are going to get a fight!

merlante

Norinoco wrote:

In fairness, the proposed amount of land waterford want to take comlpetly exceeds the amount required to extend the city.

http://www.waterfordcity.ie/notices.htm

Its a case of been greedy.

Its nothing to do with being beneficial to people living just over the river from the city and all to do the getting the port of Waterford.

Its all about the money...

Waterford City Council are going to get a fight!

The last time, they took almost as large a chunk from the south side, and it's half occupied already. Waterford city has been unnaturally confined to the south side of the river by gombeen politics - where else only in Ireland would this happen?

And as for your ridiculous argument about greed. Half of Waterford is already living over there, the Port of Waterford is officially in Kilkenny, Waterford City Council housing is being built in Kilkenny, Waterford put gas into south kilkenny, and now, if the proposal is put through Waterford City Council will be *poorer*. They will have less cash because the population density of the added townlands will be less than those south of the river, yet they will have to maintain a lot more roads, etc.

Waterford will want to expand because Kilkenny are ****ing around on the outskirts of the city, messing up the city development plan, and are taking revenue from Waterford Port. The city will expand whether it is owned by Waterford City Council or not - people are buying houses out there, simple as that. It is ridiculous to have Kilkenny County Council administering part of Waterford city.

What would the population of Ferrybank and the surrounding areas be if Waterford city did not exist. It would be '0' or very close to it.

Bards

May I remind South Kilkenny people that the "Port of Waterford" (it is not called port of Kilkenny) has always been in Waterford City until they moved down river to Bellview to allow them expand.

The City will only be regaining what was theirs all along. This is a red-herring and should be seen as such

googie

I think there would definitely be advantages for the areas involved but instead of handing over part of the county to waterford the people of those areas should be campaigning to be better serviced by kilkenny county council, who are probably the laziest least productive in the country. these areas are becoming increasingly populated and need to be accommodated accordingly. I am from part of south kilkenny not involved in the border extension and would hate to see part of the county just changing over to becoming part of waterford, but would be concerned about the future development and maintenance of these areas while they remain the responsability of kilkenny co. co.

Marcopolo85

Norinoco wrote:

In fairness, the proposed amount of land waterford want to take completly exceeds the amount required to extend the city.

http://www.waterfordcity.ie/notices.htm

Its a case of been greedy.

Its nothing to do with being beneficial to people living just over the river from the city and all to do the getting the port of Waterford.

Its all about the money...

Waterford City Council are going to get a fight!

Odd comment that. Greedy? Kilkenny CoCo have been more than obvious in their attempts to stifle the development of Waterford City down through the years (look at the Road from Paulstown to Waterford City). This is an honest attempt to allow the City to grow as radially as naturally possible.

There is a real danger now (with a super motorway to way beyond Arklow) that the NRA may choose to divert the motorway via the East Coast. The big losers? Kilkenny.

Yes - gombeen politics (and shades of jerseys) are what's driving this. But I think the people perpetuating this are more to be pitied. It (boundary extension) WILL happen....that's a certainty.

daithi

A lot of the reason why the roads are undeveloped is in part down to funding, Its the government/EU etc that pay for this, lobbing etc is a good consideration though.
The fact that waterford opposed a shoppin centre in ferrybank last year, which was approved by kilkenny county council is a sore point. the argument that an bord pleanala refused it is not valid as if was refused based on the objection from waterford.
Kilkenny Gaa have already passed a motion saying kk Gaa that they will not recognise any border move, however KK county council chairman Cllr Martin Shorthall did offer a few coaches if the deise are that stuck for hurling talent

Regarding people from kilkenny working in waterford, if the people from kilkenny/wexford were not better at the jobs than the people from waterford, then they would not be employed, its not kk's fault we have a higher skilled workforce. Its a bit like people from dublin complaining about the rest of the country taking 'their' jobs.
Taking the port especially, is just greed. What is required is participation between councils, which has been demonstrated in the past.
The only thing i think anybody from kilkenny would accept might be a correction in the borderline where the situation where peoples front and back doors are in different counties, and things like the county line passing through the middle of Ard Ri might be resolved. What i am talking about is 50/50 give and take.
The idea that one county can just invade another and take 6% of the population is ridiculous. When the size of the enlargement is compared to the existing size of waterford city, it can be viewed as nothing but pure greed in my oppinion.

Trotter

Norinoco wrote:

In fairness, the proposed amount of land waterford want to take completly exceeds the amount required to extend the city.

http://www.waterfordcity.ie/notices.htm

Its a case of been greedy.

Its nothing to do with being beneficial to people living just over the river from the city and all to do the getting the port of Waterford.

Its all about the money...

Waterford City Council are going to get a fight!

A proper fight like... with pikes and sticks????? While the KK lads are preparing for this said battle on the bridge (After asking for time off work in Waterford to do so) the rest of us will be laughing at them. :rolleyes:

Grow up.. if the bridge was closed tomorrow morning, Kilkenny would have 80% unemployment and plenty of time to gripe. Kilkenny needs Waterford more than the other way around.

NOW! Up on the ditch and start slappin padaytas off the Wawford B****rds!

Give me a break lol

Cabaal

In fairness it is all about money, its nothing about offering better goods/services to people in the area.
I'm sure Waterford CoCo will move some people from Ballybeg out to the area once they acquire it, as a kind of welcome

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The Killkenny People this week has the headline on the front page "NOT AN INCH".

Dilbert75

In one respect I agree with Daithi, in that if KK/WX people weren't good enough, they wouldn't have their jobs in WD. However, the fact that all new jobs are virtually forced (by IDA / Govt policy) to set up in the central location of WD, without any thought to the infrastructure needed to support that population, is classic Irish (lack of) planning. KK/WX people are not taking WD jobs, they took ours and we're just taking them back!

When I read about this last week, I brought in the clipping to work. You should have seen the faces on the KK colleagues when I asked them to picture their kids playing hurling in blue and white!!

odie

Since when was this a jobs issue, I thought it was a boundary issue. It seems to me that when the WD men are presented with an argument all they can ever come up with as an argument is the Bridge/jobs issue.

You have to pity them really.

Thats why the KK/WX lads get the jobs, because they can conceive a decent argument and discuss it rationally.

Now where is me fecking pike......

Go on the Stripey Men, whip another munster team this weekend.

daithi

Excellent Point Dilbert, KK people need not worry about playing in the BLue and White, the Gaa in KK have passed a motion to ignore any border changes, and continue playing as normal. Further complicating this issue, but making the sentiment of Kilkenny Folk very clear.
I doubt any one would have it any other way, Even though its virtually impossible to get on the Kilkenny team, even for those already on the panel, they still want in.
Sorry for dragging up the hurling, bit of a sore point with the deise, but TBH, i wanted ye to beat them Cork Langers.

merlante

daithi wrote:

The fact that waterford opposed a shoppin centre in ferrybank last year, which was approved by kilkenny county council is a sore point. the argument that an bord pleanala refused it is not valid as if was refused based on the objection from waterford.

There was a very good reason for this. The Waterford point of view is that south Kilkenny should have the same service provision as the Dunmore road area, in Ardkeen, or the Lisduggan area, in the (about to be redeveloped) Waterford shopping centre. Nobody is saying that south Kilkenny shouldn't be just as provided for as these areas.

But what did this crowd want to do in south Kilkenny? They wanted to build a shopping centre on the scale of city square out in the wilderness! Why pray tell did they want to do this, was it to provide for the inhabitants of south Kilkenny? Hell no, it was to tempt shoppers out of Waterford city and beyond: a crude attempt to create a rival city centre, right outside Waterford, which couldn't get enough business outside of the city of Waterford! Damn right they objected to it!

Having a shopping centre of that size would disrupted the natural pattern of trade in the city and would have increased the traffic on the bridge. This is why Waterford want to control the entire urban area, and the area that the city is likely to expand into, because otherwise rival county councils will try to make a quick buck by granting permission to huge shopping centres, completely messing with the city development plan.

merlante

daithi wrote:

Excellent Point Dilbert, KK people need not worry about playing in the BLue and White, the Gaa in KK have passed a motion to ignore any border changes, and continue playing as normal. Further complicating this issue, but making the sentiment of Kilkenny Folk very clear.
I doubt any one would have it any other way, Even though its virtually impossible to get on the Kilkenny team, even for those already on the panel, they still want in.
Sorry for dragging up the hurling, bit of a sore point with the deise, but TBH, i wanted ye to beat them Cork Langers.

Why does it always come down to hurling with you lot? This has got nothing to do with hurling: this is to do with the enlarging of a city boundary to allow for natural expansion.

Talk of hurling and jobs and Kilkenny people crossing the bridge has gone way too far! The Waterford economy relies on Kilkenny people and Wexford people to work in Waterford. Full stop. I personally wish that all counties would be abolished tomorrow morning so we could forego this ridiculous nonsense.

Waterford expands into Co. Waterford, there's no hassle. Waterford tries to expand into Co. Kilkenny and there's war. Flag waving and ****ing hurling have poisoned people on both sides! Hurling is a great game, but this is ridiculous. Waterford city is expanding. Its expansion has not been symmetrical because of a game played with a stick and a ball - ****ing ridiculous.

I hope that the Kilkenny people don't genuinely believe that we are trying to steal their hurlers. If so, then you might end up in Waterford (St. Otterans) soon enough anyway. Also, Waterford people should stop going on and on about jobs and the bridge: this talk helps nobody.

As for this "greed" argument - you have got to be joking! How could Waterford possibly make any money out of incorporating part of south Kilkenny? The Port of Waterford moved to the other side of the river a few years ago, because a port should select the best base from which to operate, and the site happened to be on the north side of the river. Surely you're not saying that we shouldn't be able to take our port back?

Bards

When will the South East Counties learn to co-operate and deliver fully to it's enormus potential. Take a leap out of the IRA and declare "the war over" (IE Inter County Rivalry must cease). We have the best location in terms of closeness to europe and britain, yet the west seems to outperform us in economic terms. Don't blame the govt. for our failure to set aside the county jersey and lets procede with one voice like the West has done.

Wexford, Kilkenny, Tipperary South, Carlow and Waterford need each other to create critical mass and a vibrant region with the Gateway at it's core. This so happens to be Waterford City.

Lets not fight with each other when the real enemy is Dublin and Cork!!

Maharet

Bards wrote:

Wexford, Kilkenny, Tipperary South, Carlow and Waterford need each other to create critical mass and a vibrant region with the Gateway at it's core. This so happens to be Waterford City.

Lets not fight with each other when the real enemy is Dublin and Cork!!

Indeed, especially Dublin!

It is a bit ridiculous that people can't see past the hurling and realise that this could be of great benefit to those of us in South Kilkenny. I would hope that if (when) the boundary changes that all people will be looked after equally and that Waterford City Council will be responsible in providing for all it's new citizens, not just those originally from Waterford.

I really get sick of this "get back over the bridge and stop taking all our jobs" argument that Waterford people come up with, do they not realise that Waterford is the main urban centre in the region and that if they want their City to be properly recognised as such by those who work there but live outside the City boundaries they would do well to start acting as such and not being their usual provincial selves (I don't mean all Waterford people here by the way but there is a fairly sizable minority of them for it to get irritating after a while).

As for Waterford trying to steal our hurlers, I still find it hard to believe that that was actually used as a serious argument by KKCo Councillors! As Kilkenny GAA have said they won't recognise it so what's the problem? Everyone can continue to play for their county anyway.

But having said that I can see why some people in Co. Kilkenny (soon to be Waterford City) would have a problem with this and there is more to it than hurling. If you've been reared in a county and you've always felt you belong there, have family from and living there and you are part of it, I can see how it would be upsetting for the City of another county to come and make you part of them.

Also, who will the areas affected be voting for, KK or Waterford? This would also cause problems I would imagine as Kilkenny isn't the biggest county to begin with. I can see this isn't going to be easy, but also (much as it pains me to say it) it would make sense for them to bring in the proposed areas to Waterford City, I just hope they do a better job of things than KK CoCo or there really will be war if people can see no discernable benefit from being made part of Waterford City.

(Maybe I should start sharpin me pike just in case )

merlante

I think this move could be a hit when it comes in. Kilkenny people will still consider themselves Kilkenny people, and whenever they want a road or something, all they have to do is cross the river and bang on the doors of city hall. I think Kilkenny Co.Co. were relying on the fact that South Kilkenny was too far away for them to come up and complain.