And people say religion is good....

karlh

Kernel wrote:

Homo sapiens come from a long line of savagery and self-preservation. Religion brought about civilisation, and all the benefits of living in a civilised society that you all enjoy today

<stir>

that's evolution that is!

</stir>

Kernel

kaids wrote:

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts

Always liked that one!

Quote doesn't stand up, in fact it is almost ridiculous to draw a comparison between an atheist and a believer in God, the two are completely seperate and different.

The reason I dismiss all other 'gods' is because I believe in the testament of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Kernel

karlh wrote:

that's evolution that is!

Of course, there is biological evolution (and even a theory of meme evolution - which exists in psychology), but what kind of society / civilisation would we have nowadays if not for the moral guidance of religion?

Tar.Aldarion

religion,smeligion? i say!
i don't see why you become a catholic because your parents are one,ridiculously stupid imo....people telling you what to believe when you are young so that you eventually believe it,viva religion!

AARRRGH

Check out this post -

http://www.staff.ie/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52

- regarding Scientology.

(I'd post it here, but I'm pretty sure the Scientologists would have a go at Boards.ie for it.)

It's just amazingly amazingly utter bollox! It just shows how some people will believe/do ANYTHING!

Baffling.

It wasn't me!

Have you studied all religion though? You shouldn't dismiss all other religions without knowing all about them. Religion should be used to tell people what is right and wrong, and to help them develop a basis for deciding that for themselves. It should not be taken as fact. The *fact* is, I can't prove Jesus was or wasn't the son of God. Neither can you. That simple. All we have is a belief, not based on much either.

It's far from ridiculous to compare atheists and believers. They're both people, they both eat and drink and sleep. The're almost identical in every respect, bar one, and the quote makes a lot of sense. You believe fundamentally in Christianity for a reason, yet you dismiss other religions which do not contain the same characters in their stories. If oyu understand why you've decdied not to believe in these other religions, you an understand why an athesit has decided not to worship your god.

The thing is, you may think you're right, and everyone else may think they're right, Jews, Muslims, Christians, eevryone, but not one of them can prove it. Religion isn't logical or scientific; it's on a different plane altogether to the logical, which, if you belief in a religion, exists, and you call it the divine, but if you're atheist, doesn't even exist and has no effect on you.

Canis Lupus

I find religious debates pointless. The beleivers bray at the non beleivers for being stupid and vice versa.

Personally I think someone who beleives in a 'higher being' without said 'higher being' introducing himself/herself/itself personally with relevant documentation to show himself/herself/itself a 'higher being' an idiot. But my opinion won't change their opinion and their opinion won't change my opinion and who cares really, let the beleivers get on with their lives and let me get on with my life.

So there....

Ozzy

Fr.Kernel wrote:

Of course, there is biological evolution (and even a theory of meme evolution - which exists in psychology), but what kind of society / civilisation would we have nowadays if not for the moral guidance of religion?

Maybe a better one, Kernel!
I wouldn't have thought so, but hey, who knows!?

One Israeli settler, when asked how he felt about the death of 12-year-old Muhammad al-Durra, a Palestinian boy in Gaza, he said, "Our kids are the kids of God; theirs are the kids of Satan." Another Jewish settler, reflecting on Muhammad al-Durra's death, said with "motherly" passion, "They [Palestinians] are not humans...they are animals. In a way, those Palestinians aren't even animals. Animals care for their offspring. Palestinians send their children out to kill or be killed."

I think some people just look for an excuse sometimes, and religion can be a good scapegoat.

Canis Lupus wrote:

Personally I think someone who beleives in a 'higher being' without said 'higher being' introducing himself/herself/itself personally with relevant documentation to show himself/herself/itself a 'higher being' an idiot.

That's pretty ignorant though. Surely a person who does the opposite is just as idiotic.
I hate to sound like a hairy hippy, but let a person believe what they want so long as they aren't hurting or hating anybody else! The only idiots are those people that kill!

mp3guy wrote:

Well, its been around for ages, and look what it causes? It just brainswashes people into doing things, its a tool to gain power, all religions have screwed up at one point. Best to just stay out of it, considering its just a figment of mans imagination

Some of the greatest things created by humanity were/are/whatever just figments of man's imagination.
As Einstein stated 'Imagination is more important than knowledge...'

The brainy chap also uttered, 'The important thing is not to stop questioning biatch'.

Kernel

It wasn't me! wrote:

Have you studied all religion though? You shouldn't dismiss all other religions without knowing all about them. Religion should be used to tell people what is right and wrong, and to help them develop a basis for deciding that for themselves. It should not be taken as fact. The *fact* is, I can't prove Jesus was or wasn't the son of God. Neither can you. That simple. All we have is a belief, not based on much either.

I wouldn't say I've studied all religions, however, I have friends who are of different faiths. Christianity is the religion that makes sense to me, I don't condemn any others or say that my beliefs are any more correct that theirs. Atheism and the empty and self-centred beliefs that it entails, is something I do not like.

It wasn't me! wrote:

It's far from ridiculous to compare atheists and believers. They're both people, they both eat and drink and sleep. The're almost identical in every respect, bar one, and the quote makes a lot of sense. You believe fundamentally in Christianity for a reason, yet you dismiss other religions which do not contain the same characters in their stories. If oyu understand why you've decdied not to believe in these other religions, you an understand why an athesit has decided not to worship your god.

No, I don't think the quote stands up ... an atheist is someone who believes there is no God, no higher purpose to life, and no real meaning to it. A believer in God is someone who believes that the universe was created in an intelligent and meaningful way, and that our actions in this reality have consequences to our development in another reality (heaven). There are many many differences in such belief systems, too many to even delve into here, that's why I say the comparison is without merit. "We are all atheists, I believe in one less God than you"? Over simplistic and incorrect logic I believe.

It wasn't me! wrote:

The thing is, you may think you're right, and everyone else may think they're right, Jews, Muslims, Christians, eevryone, but not one of them can prove it. Religion isn't logical or scientific; it's on a different plane altogether to the logical, which, if you belief in a religion, exists, and you call it the divine, but if you're atheist, doesn't even exist and has no effect on you.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all branch from the same source. As I mentioned, I don't say that my way is any better than another, just that I have read the new testament, and am a believer that Christ's message was a worthy one, and one that I would try to follow (usually failing disasterously however! ). Science and logic are concepts developed by ancient ape-men with strange 1.4 kg organs in their heads, which has evolved to help us to analyse, communicate and use tools. To suggest that there can be no God because our primitive 1.4kg organ cannot comprehend that fully or 'prove it' is arrogant and you are correct to think that such things as God may lie away from our current grasp (lying on a different plane). That's why it's called faith, I guess.

Religion has probably helped develop a moral and decent society, by morally educating the masses. We shouldn't confuse the failings of human nature with any (wrongly) percieved failings of religion.

Neuro

Kernel wrote:

Most of you heretics are spouting pseudo-intellectual post modern bull**** - nobody can be sure of anything, with regard to God, afterlife, religion etc. What I can be sure of...

From "nobody can be sure of anything" to "What I can be sure of" in a single sentence! I think you have unintentionally summarised the main objection of many people towards religion and its followers; an utter lack of consistency.

Kernel

Neuro wrote:

From "nobody can be sure of anything" to "What I can be sure of" in a single sentence! I think you have unintentionally summarised the main objection of many people towards religion and its followers; an utter lack of consistency.

Wrong, you know what I meant there.. I said nobody can be sure of anything with regard to God and the afterlife, but I can be sure that religion has helped civilisation and society. Think before you post.

netwhizkid

I think Religion has made no positive contribution to modern society throughout history they killed millions and made incalculable amounts of people miserable. The Catholic Church has more blood on its hands than any other organised thing there is. All for the wim of a crappy little lie. They make me sick and then they elect old ratzy. I'm a da vinci code beliver also.

Regards netwhizkid

Canis Lupus

someone who said something to me on the other page wrote:

That's pretty ignorant though. Surely a person who does the opposite is just as idiotic.
I hate to sound like a hairy hippy, but let a person believe what they want so long as they aren't hurting or hating anybody else! The only idiots are those people that kill!

Sure I don't go up and punch someone for beleiving in nonsense and I'm more than happy to let them beleive if it makes them happy so I'm not seeing the ignorant bit never mind pretty ignorant.

edit: whoops messed up the quote..

Kernel

netwhizkid wrote:

I think Religion has made no positive contribution to modern society throughout history they killed millions and made incalculable amounts of people miserable. The Catholic Church has more blood on its hands than any other organised thing there is. All for the wim of a crappy little lie. They make me sick and then they elect old ratzy. I'm a da vinci code beliver also.

Regards netwhizkid

What?... How old are you? You believe a best seller which even Dan Brown admits is fiction. How has the Catholic Church got more blood on it's hands than any other 'organized thing'? Where do you get your statistic of the Catholic Church killing millions? You're speaking nonsense man!

http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/article4.html
http://www.danbrown.com/novels/davinci_code/faqs.html

Ozzy

Canis Lupus wrote:

Sure I don't go up and punch someone for beleiving in nonsense and I'm more than happy to let them beleive if it makes them happy so I'm not seeing the ignorant bit never mind pretty ignorant.

edit: whoops messed up the quote..

At least put my name in the quote you ignorant cnut. Christ some people ey?
They should be shot.

It wasn't me!

Kernel you make your point well. Religion has done a lot of good, but the Catholic church was responsible for a lot of bloodshed throughout the ages, the Crusdaes, the Inquisitions and whatnot. The Da Vinci code is bollocks, people who go around spouting it as though it's their gospel give non-believers a bad appearance. There are arguments for and arguments against religion. Maybe society would be better off without it, but if nothing else it's convenient way to guide people on a path where they can try and do good.

Kernel

It wasn't me! wrote:

Kernel you make your point well. Religion has done a lot of good, but the Catholic church was responsible for a lot of bloodshed throughout the ages, the Crusdaes, the Inquisitions and whatnot. The Da Vinci code is bollocks, people who go around spouting it as though it's their gospel give non-believers a bad appearance. There are arguments for and arguments against religion. Maybe society would be better off without it, but if nothing else it's convenient way to guide people on a path where they can try and do good.

Thanks bud. I personally have little faith in human nature, I believe there are a lot of people who would do wrong if they could. So I think civilisation owes a lot to religion. The breakdown of civilisation has always shown the baser elements of our make-up. If you look at the soviet invasion into Prussia/Germany after the initial German invasion in WW2, you will see a conservative estimate of 100,000 women raped, and who knows how many people killed and mistreated. You'll see this pattern of animal savagery in most cases where the thin line of civilisation breaks down.

I agree about the crusades, but in defence I would say that religion was used as a tool for the political aims of ill guided rulers.

At least people with religious guidelines will have some kind of education against such acts, instead of blindly doing the bidding of their political masters.

dlofnep

Religion is a farce. Anyone who bends their life around a 2000 year old belief and anyone who clings onto a religion because they are too afraid to accept death is a coward. Religion has done nothing good for society nor the world. It seperates communities, countries and causes wars.

It's not all wrong, there are moral lessons to be learned but it's nothing our conscience wouldn't help us control. I think it's time the world stopped clinging on to obsolete ways of life and moved on.

Ania

Most of you forget to add these 3 very important words before their arguments:
'In my opinion...' or 'Personally, I think...'

I am very religious and my strong believes have never done anything bad to me, so how can somebody claim that religion is basically wrong?
However, I do respect well- argued opinions of atheists as long as they respect my opinion.

Ania

The Catholic Church has more blood on its hands than any other organised thing there is.

I think you are very wrong there:
Holocaust and Nationalsocialism in general, Soviet Union, wars, conquests, and the like.
That's really one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read.

netwhizkid

Originally Posted by Ania
I think you are very wrong there:
Holocaust and Nationalsocialism in general, Soviet Union, wars, conquests, and the like.
That's really one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read.

No i am not wrong, The Church has Millions of deaths indirectly staining their hand every day thousands of people die of Aids. many of which could and would be prevented if the church just said okay don't ues condoms for birth control, yet you can use them for disease prevention, Isn't life the most Sacred thing the church holds dear ? They then elect old ratzy the nazi as pope and guess what he instigates an even more conservative regime. The bible belters (rednecks) in the southern US must be delighted. The church and conservatives in general are what is wrong with this modern world that we live in. The church are about as "intouch" with modern society as Dustin and socky are with a university lecturer. I remeber aged 12 in 6th class in primary school, we as most curious kids did played "spin the bottle" and unfortunatly one lunch break we got rumbled by the principal, the next day the catholic priest gave a lecture on Sexual morality to us 12yr olds. Wake up people. Its a scam.

Regards netwhizkid

1huge1

mp3guy wrote:

Well, its been around for ages, and look what it causes? It just brainswashes people into doing things, its a tool to gain power, all religions have screwed up at one point. Best to just stay out of it, considering its just a figment of mans imagination

[/my opinion]

could'nt agee more what a waste if time

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/

the God Faq.

says it all really.

Sarky

Sarky Mordeth.

Pigman II

Religion is good! Without it I'd have lots of feeble minded people running around robbing my stuff and killing me.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you're thinking of the police, not religion.

Pigman II

Perhaps, but when did the police ever stop either of the aforementioned? Certainly not in my experience.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

really? how often have you been burgled or mugged? how often do you think this would happen if we didn't have police?

WhiteWashMan

Ozzy wrote:

At least put my name in the quote you ignorant cnut. Christ some people ey?
They should be shot.

banned.

WhiteWashMan

moving to the theology board, or the religion board or humanities or somewhere else.

good grief people!