And people say religion is good....

mp3guy

Well, its been around for ages, and look what it causes? It just brainswashes people into doing things, its a tool to gain power, all religions have screwed up at one point. Best to just stay out of it, considering its just a figment of mans imagination

[/my opinion]

verdidnt

I agree. I am athiest myself but some people need something to believe in. There will always be religion, is some form or another.

My 2 cents

shellby

organised religion is the problem or more so the ideas instilled in ppl because of it but i don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with being religious or having beliefs

what exactly are you blaming religion for anyway

joejoem

Buddisim is the most reasonable one

TerrorFirmer

Religion IS good.

Without belief, what have we to hope for?

I believe personally, but you either do or don't, and I have respect for either side.

Religion may have different types and varying contrasts but at the end of the day, its all for the same greater being, god, even if the more complex ideals clash.

BizzyC

I think that modern religion is a good thing. It's a forum for people to come togethor in good will and community. Religion can be a good source of help and guidance.

I myself however, don't believe in religion.
I do believe in God.

Jesus appeared on this earth, and led the people to stop following the church of rich corrupt men, and follow Judaism instead. But the religions that followed him, simply replaced the regimes of power and corruption that he fought against.

Look at the way that Irish priests intimidated the people in this country in acting as they wanted no more than 50 years ago....

eyebrows

It is good in some ways (something to get you through tough times) but can be turned into something deadly. For example I don’t think you'd get much suicide bombers if they didn't think 1. They were doing it for god 2. They’d go to heaven afterwards.

Don’t believe in it myself btw.

Boggle

It's grand in moderation as people deserve to believe in something greater than themselves. What I do dislike though is the blind following of a faith (any faith) as people have to be capable of distinguishing right and wrong/just and unjust for themselves and not because of what they are told...

Macka

Organised religion is just wrong. Millions have died for their deities over the years, religion has been one of the main causes of war and death over the centuries, think of the tragedies that could have been avoided if their was no religion, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the Religious Wars in Europe during the renaissance, the Isaraeli-Palastine conflict, these suicide bombers in the middle east, the Japanese fanatical resistance in the 2nd world war (death before surrender, resulted in the flattening of Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Religion has been used for centuries to mark people out as the "enemy" and to justify the massacre of innocents. Religion has brought naught but pain and suffering to the world concealed in a false shroud of peace.

Sarky

Macka wrote:

the Holocaust.

Hitler would have gotten round to hating everyone at some point. Religion wasn't really the problem.

Back on topic, I find the concept of people who are willing to kill for something they can never establish as fact both amusing and rather sad. Believe what you like, just respect my right to think you're misguided, at least on some points. I'm not saying there's no omnipotent being that started it all, but if there is I very much doubt it went around Israel curing lepers.

monkeyfudge

Sarky wrote:

Hitler would have gotten round to hating everyone at some point. Religion wasn't really the problem.

Yeah. A prostitute laughed at his willy when he was a teenager. That's were the problems started.

Macka

Well it was a program of extermination aimed at homosexuals, some criminals and primarily JEWS, so yes I'd say religion did play a part in it. Jewish hatred was rife all over Europe at the time, even in merry olde England and right here in Ireland there were anti-Jewish organisations, the Russians had already started organising their Jews into seperate societies called Pogroms. Jews had become the scapegoat for a poor bitter European society after WW1, they marked these people out because of their religion and unfortunately Hitler's personal hatred of the jews escalated to the point were he saw their complete annihalation as the only solution.

MorningStar

MobileInfantry wrote:

Religion IS good.

Without belief, what have we to hope for?

I believe personally, but you either do or don't, and I have respect for either side.

Religion may have different types and varying contrasts but at the end of the day, its all for the same greater being, god, even if the more complex ideals clash.

In your opinion which is as valid as anybody elses.

Without religious belief I have hope. I hope that people will learn to understand each other.

Your last line is a western christian view that can directly contrast against anothers view. Some people belive in gods that kill each others and that to praise anybody but their god makes you less than human.
If God didn't exist we would create him!
What about the belief that God exists but doesn't think much of us so he ignores us and his evil brother the devil runs the world so you should praise the devil? Some religious beliefs probably can't be reconciled. Christian views are about compasion and tolerance others are about human nature for revenge and dominanace. As always it's the fundamentalists that are the real problem most people just want to get by.

pdunno

I don't usually talk about religion or politics, because a lot of people just think they are right and that's it, there's no conversation if you're not agreeing with them - just argument. However you guys aren't forcing your opions down each others throats.

Personally I do believe, but I think we all have to form our own opinion and judgement. We all need time to come to terms with our faith, or lack of it.

As for organised religion, this is bred into people from the moment they are born, wherever they are from and whatever religion it is, we are told what to believe and that isn't really believing - more conditioning. This is the source of the hatred and violence, these people are taught this way of thinking from an early age and can become fanatical.

Now this is only my opinion, my belief, I have no great knowledge on this subject. Feel free to disagree

stevenmu

Macka wrote:

Well it was a program of extermination aimed at homosexuals, some criminals and primarily JEWS, so yes I'd say religion did play a part in it. Jewish hatred was rife all over Europe at the time, even in merry olde England and right here in Ireland there were anti-Jewish organisations, the Russians had already started organising their Jews into seperate societies called Pogroms. Jews had become the scapegoat for a poor bitter European society after WW1, they marked these people out because of their religion and unfortunately Hitler's personal hatred of the jews escalated to the point were he saw their complete annihalation as the only solution.

But wasn't it a persecution of Jews based on their ethnicity more so than their actual religion ?


Anyway, I think the main problems are the people who are willing to believe anything they're told, and those who take advantage of them as opposed to religions themselves. Religions generally teach pretty good morality but there are those out there who twist religious teachings to their own end, and plenty of people willing to follow them.

Chong

I strongly agree with religion and I am a strong Catholic.

Neuro

It's no coincidence that the Dark Ages, so called because there was little or no advancement in science, art or philosophy, coincided with the Christian church attaining a religious, political and social monopoly throughout Europe.

The Modern Era of European history has its seeds in the decline of the influence of the church over society. It was only after the French Revolution and widespread secularisation in the late 18th and early 19th centuries that human thought (art, politics, philosophy, science) once again flourished and developed.

Mark Twain accurately summarised the double-think inherent in Christian faith, and probably all Abrehamic religions, in this passage from The Mysterious Stranger:

"A God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave the angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angles painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell - mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness and multiplies by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honourably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!"

For an insight into the negative effects of organised religion on both personal and social development, read What I Believe by Bertrand Russell.

Sauron

I think of it this way: those of us who are strongly religious (ie: catholic or just any form of christianity) believe that our religon is the one true religon.. that all others are wrong... really, that's just because it's what we were brought up with... if we were Hindu, or jewish... we'd believe that exact same thing having been brought up in such an enviroment.. we'd believe that Hinduism etc. was the one true religon...

someone once said this to me a couple of years ago when I was doing Classical Studies in school and it's been stuck in my mind ever since.. we may dismiss, ignore or even laugh at the religons of the ancient Greeks and Romans,
but back then they believed as strongly in their religon as some of us would now .. who's to say that people won't be laughing at our religons in a few hundred years..

Mankind has always tried to explain that which he can't through religon..eg: the Ancient Greeks attributed day and night to various gods.. but now, because of advances in science it's becoming harder to do that.. and people are asking more questions...

Organized religon has caused some horrible things.. with all it's strict and specific regulations.. religons with simple and well meaning ideals like Buddhism seem a lot more beneficial..religons like Christianity seem to have caused a lot of problems..

I'm still undecided about the whole god thing.. it seems to be a recurring theme with with humanity.. people say that there must be something more to life.. but I think that might be just them trying to convince themselves that there's something after death..

but on the other hand we need something to believe in.. whether or not it's true, it works.. and it gives people hope.. it will probably always be there in some shape or form...

phew, long post

MorningStar

Willem D wrote:

I strongly agree with religion and I am a strong Catholic.

Not being funny but how much have you studied Catholism and other religions?

There's a lot of popular catholic beliefs that aren't exactly part of the religion as such. Things like the fact Mary was 13 when she had Jesus is missed by many as is misunderstanding of the emmaculate conception.
Is it
a) Mary was a virgin when she gave birth
b) Mary was without sin when she concieved
c) Jesus was born with out original sin
d) All of the above

Not attacking Christianity just find it strange that after being raised a Catholic I am surprised out how much is misunderstood. Is Lucifier Moringstar the devil doing God's will or an angel cast out for pride just in exile?

Not sure you can be a strong anything when it comes to religion without knowing a lot about your own and other's religions. I don't see why Protestants and Catholics don't acknowledge each others similarities first and foremost. The politics mixed in there seem to be the big problem.
My mother always argues that she will stick with what she has and hope that will please God which I think is really most people's view even the strong irish catholics.
Again it's not an attack on you Willim just a view I am not sure of.

toiletduck

atheist myself, but i can appreciate that religion can be a comfort to people in hard times

Megatron

Organised religion is just wrong.

i agree 100% on this.
I beleive in a all powerful thingy ( other than myself ) i honestly don't see how going to a building on a particual day at a particualr time is going to get that all powerful thingy to look after me more.

I speak to him/her/it when i want, using how i was brought up , prayer.
But i havent' been to church since my Granny died about 12 years ago , i used to make the vain attempt at going at chrimbo, but i've given that up.

I have my own belief , i don't need to justify it to anyone ( i used to get into so many rows with my religion teacher over this when he used to try and get us to take a religion test).

anyways , back to work with me :mad:

shakenbake

It is not religion that causes the problems, it is people.

karlh

MorningStar wrote:

In your opinion which is as valid as anybody elses.

Without religious belief I have hope. I hope that people will learn to understand each other.

Your last line is a western christian view that can directly contrast against anothers view. Some people belive in gods that kill each others and that to praise anybody but their god makes you less than human.
If God didn't exist we would create him!
What about the belief that God exists but doesn't think much of us so he ignores us and his evil brother the devil runs the world so you should praise the devil? Some religious beliefs probably can't be reconciled. Christian views are about compasion and tolerance others are about human nature for revenge and dominanace. As always it's the fundamentalists that are the real problem most people just want to get by.

bingo!

very well said MS.

Kingp35

Religion is simply something man made up a long time ago to explain that which could not be explained. For example day and night happened but nobody knew how so our brains simply couldnt comprehend anything other than a powerful being that created night and day.

As science explains more and more religions change to reflect what has been proven. they have evolved through the years into different religions.

Fact is none of them are true. This is something I feel really strongly about and I could write about this all day but its simply mans way of explaining that which he does not know. Things we dont understand scare us so we invent an explanation so that we no longer feel afraid.

There are too many religions which believe in too many things and that have too mant contradictions and holes within them thats its just obvious none of them are true. the different religions came about because different people were grouped together. For example the poeple in Israel thousands of years ago came up with their way of explaining things such as night and day and how us humans came about and then at the exact same time people across the world in a country like India invented there own religion to explian the exact same thing. This happened in many different places and different religions are born because of this.

Its like taking 5 people and putting them in different rooms so they have no contact with each other and give them the exact same thing to explain. Each one of those people will come out witha different explanation for the same thing. This is the same as what happened with religions.

they are basically glorified stories that man invented to explain different things. religions is mans greatest ever stories that have evolved throughout the years. Even though I was brought up as a catholic im no longer naive enough to believe in these things when there are so many variations and contradictions and inconsistencies.

as for organised religions these are very dangerous as they are filled with the most fanatical of people who are willing to die for there religion.

Religion can be good for some people but the horror and wars that it has caused makes me think its not worthwhile

It wasn't me!

Most religions, at the heart of them, are about doing good for one another and living a good life. Everything else is stories and trimmings noone can prove or disprove. My own belief is that if you can live a good life, under any religion or no religion, the next world, if there is one, will take care of itself, so why worry.

Kernel

Most of you heretics are spouting pseudo-intellectual post modern bull**** - nobody can be sure of anything, with regard to God, afterlife, religion etc. What I can be sure of, is that the society we have today has arrived at it's destination through moral guidance largely derived from benevolent religious teachings. Homo sapiens come from a long line of savagery and self-preservation. Religion brought about civilisation, and all the benefits of living in a civilised society that you all enjoy today.

To the OP, who cares if you don't like religion, maybe when you grow up a little bit you will finish your 'rebel teenage phase' and understand that most people with a religious belief are well meaning and decent. I'd rather a person who believes in something rather than a selfish nihilistic atheist who believes in nothing.

Kernel

stevenmu wrote:

But wasn't it a persecution of Jews based on their ethnicity more so than their actual religion ?

I would agree with you there steven. Also, Macka, you mention the Israeli-Palestinian issue, which I would think has more to do with the bloody and brutal occupation of former Palestine by a foreign ruler installed by the British after the second world war, than it has to do with religious differences.

The Japanese devotion to Emperor Hirohito was pseudo-religious, but more to do with the total dominance of a ruler in a feudal empire, and the devotion and pride held by Japanese people since early times.

Political leaders use religion as a tool, and it is interesting to note that any such wars would not be permitted by the doctrine of most religions. eg. Christianity - love thy neighbour, turn the other cheek etc.

Pepe LeFrits

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts

Always liked that one!

It wasn't me!

There's nothing selfish about atheism or nihilism. It's great that oyu have a strong faith, but to say civilisation can be attributed to it is a misconception. You're right though, nobody can be sure of anything with regards to god(s), the afterlife, or anything like that. People's reaction to this fact however, changes from individual to individual. Some take their faith to heart, and cling to it, because it helps them. Others are atheists, or like myself, agnostics. Our outlook is different from yours in that, while faith gives you strength, our strength comes from our ability to take everything at face level and not worry about lives we have yet to live, if we ever will.

It wasn't me!

Kernel wrote:

Political leaders use religion as a tool, and it is interesting to note that any such wars would not be permitted by the doctrine of most religions. eg. Christianity - love thy neighbour, turn the other cheek etc.

It's interestingly ironic that Bush, leader of a country with Christian influence on it constitution, can lead a country into several wars, killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people in the name of that so-called Christian country.

Kernel

It wasn't me! wrote:

It's interestingly ironic that Bush, leader of a country with Christian influence on it constitution, can lead a country into several wars, killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people in the name of that so-called Christian country.

Of course, that was my point. The religion most of those wars were fought for was capitalism and the self preservation of their current political system/power.