Diesels

unkel

jayok wrote:

Yeah, I know I am unfair in my comparision. I just alway seem to think that the Avensis, Primera and Accord are in the same class. Obviously they are not

I feel they are! For cars this size there is the basic class and the prestige class. Traditionally:

Basic: Vectra, Mondeo, Laguna, Primera, Avensis, 407, Passat etc.
Prestige: Merc C-class, Audi A4, BMW 3-series, Jaguar X-Type

Obviously the classes more than ever are growing towards each other and there are several cars that are moving towards the prestige class or the other way around

Most people would agree that the Toyota IS200 (ahum) has already entered the prestige class, the Saab has always been close but might be moving down after the GM takeover. The Accord is climbing up but imho its pricetag is ahead of itself and already firmly there

ubu

The classes of some of these cars are only blurred by the badge and price, take the two examples of prestige cars below, both of which use the underpinnings of cars percieved to be a class below them, but there is no difference in the size of the cars

Audi A4 = VW Passat
Jag X Type = Ford mondeo

That said, id take an A4 over passat myself but thats just me!

ds20prefecture

jayok wrote:

So how about this, I could but a 6-7 year old Merc Diesel for 12K with 100K+ miles on it. Even if it last 3 years it's only cost 4k / year in depreciation MPG is similar to a newer cars but servicing interval more regular. However, I would be happy to get a handy mechanic to service it for me. Is this a better idea. Are old merc's worth the hassle? I know taxi drivers love them so there must be something here.

Thanks for everyone's input so far.

If you must buy diesel, avoid anything much older than 5 years. Common rail and traditional turbo diesels are chalk and cheese.

If you're going to put serious mileage on the car, a 6 to 7 y.o. Merc E class would be a good bet, but their diesels then were unpleasant. E300D is torquey enough but rough rough rough. 320CDI is a very good engine by comparison.

jm2k

ubu wrote:

The classes of some of these cars are only blurred by the badge and price, take the two examples of prestige cars below, both of which use the underpinnings of cars percieved to be a class below them, but there is no difference in the size of the cars

Audi A4 = VW Passat
Jag X Type = Ford mondeo

That said, id take an A4 over passat myself but thats just me!

...A4 & Passat use different underpinnings, but what you say is generally true. Wonder how many Audi TT drivers realise just how similar their car is to a Skoda Octavia (previous model!)

New Passat actually uses a stretched Golf platform as VW don't expect to sell as many of them with all the new car variants entering the market.

Squirrel

I am working with Volkswagens and Audis so I know I'm going to be a bit biased, but the mechanic at a main dealer said there's not much that will go wrong with VAG TDIs. Why don't you look into an A3 sportback 2 litre TDI. I spend an awful lot of time in them and I quite like them, just a suggestion

tred

full forward wrote:

The mondeo will also need tyres and oil changes and timing belts. So maybe the A4 will cost 300 a year more to service, thats nothing overall. It might add up for someone who feels they need to service it 3 or 4 times a year.

Modern audi diesels can do 20k before needing a service. If you put in the cheaper oil you get 10k.

The price of the new A4 is higher than the old one. Mine is the 03 model with 11k miles on it.

When it comes to selling a mondeo you will be competing with dozens of others. The A4 you might be upaginst three or four. I always sell my cars privately so I know how it works. Bear in mind you should always buy a car that will be easy to sell.

The A4 will cost me less in the long run its a fact. I would save nothing if I got a mondeo instead so why bother? I'm taking an even more objective economic POV here.

I have a 04 Mondeo 130 TDCI GhiaX. I was never a fan of Fords, but i researched all Diesels before i bought, and with value for money and kit, it appealed to me. I have it a year now, and I have to say, its the best car i have ever owned. MPG is 55 on your long drive, and 40-45 on town. Cruise control is excellent when on the motorways or main roads. (No timing belt, its a timing chain, that needs looking at roughly 100K i heard.) Comfort is second to none. a little wind noise on drivers window, a little annoying. Far superiour engine to the 1.9 TDI VW powerplant, available at the time, but i hear they have a new 2.0 engine in new model. They say now though , the best diesel is the honda accord 2.2. Nice looking car as well. The depreciation on the Ford is the killer, but who buys cars for an invesment these days?. I worked in UK so got a good deal on Mondeo, and avoided the VRT...
I suppose if i was honest, i would say, id prefer an Audi or BMW320D. but the budget wasnt there, but I have to say, the Mondy aint a bad bus.

prospect

Doesn't the diesel mondeo use the pug/cit engine?

If so, isn't it a bit silly eliminating cit/pug on reliability grounds, and yet including the mondeo? (i know there is more to a car than the engine, but it just seems a bit funny to me).

HashSlinging

do yourself a favour and get a fully loaded toledo for 30k, 1.9tdi

bazz26

The new Toledo is horrible imo. It is just a compact MPV with a boot. I haven't seen too many of them about either.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=237513

jayok

Just out of information, I looked at all the diesels, including the new 2.2 from Lexus, which was fabulous! However, the Accord was still not bad money for the price paid and the Mondeo was good in it's class.

However, none of them could match the Civic's pace (understandibly), so I kept it! In the end I bought a 01 1.8i petrol Accord with all the extra's (cruise, etc) with 45k miles on it for €9,500 as my trundle car to get to work keeping the Civic for the weekend.

This might seem mad but I should get 4-5 years out of the Accord, save a little on tax and not worry too much about it being banged around. The economics on the decreased mpg from the diesel versus the depreciate actually make it financially more sound.

unkel

jayok wrote:

so I kept it! In the end I bought a 01 1.8i petrol Accord

Do you have both cars insured in your name? How did it work out for extra insurance?

jayok

Do you have both cars insured in your name? How did it work out for extra insurance?

Yep, I kept both cars in my name. I'd to take out an additional policy on the Accord but explained to the insurers that the Civic would be doing less than 10k per year. Overall it works out an extra €600 pa to have the Accord.

Originally the Civic was €1,000 even but they reduced that to €700. The €800 on the Accord is Class-B commercial insurance also (i.e. I use it for business purposes). So I guess it's not too bad - I had to argue with them about my NCB though as the were trying to say that the Accord's policy is a new one. Push a little and the conceded.

HashSlinging

bazz26 wrote:

The new Toledo is horrible imo. It is just a compact MPV with a boot. I haven't seen too many of them about either.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=237513

I know what ye mean and I thought that aswell but I test drove one last week and they're special, very nice inside and very well put together, when your beside one you change you opinion, I was inquiring about replacing my own Leon with the new leon and I was taken back by it.

The boot is massive ! if you've started a family and need space i really think its got all the base's covered. the one i tested had leather seats, for 29,750 with lots of extras, it is good value, esp if covering as many miles as that guy is.

bazz26

I did actually see one in the flesh but still don't like that boot on the Toledo. And since they have the nicer Altea MPV I cannot see a reason why they designed the Toledo as another MPV type vehicle. They now have no mid size saloon car in their line up.

tred

prospect wrote:

Doesn't the diesel mondeo use the pug/cit engine?

If so, isn't it a bit silly eliminating cit/pug on reliability grounds, and yet including the mondeo? (i know there is more to a car than the engine, but it just seems a bit funny to me).

Has there being reliablility issues withn the PSA engines? The 2.0 TDCI was a venture between ford and PSA, but it was built solely in UK. I have had zero problems with it, under 50k on it earlly days yet. If you get a chance test drive a 130PS.

I think the 1.6 thats in the focus, peugeot, volvo and mazda is actually same powerplant?.

prospect

tred wrote:

Has there being reliablility issues withn the PSA engines? The 2.0 TDCI was a venture between ford and PSA, but it was built solely in UK. I have had zero problems with it, under 50k on it earlly days yet. If you get a chance test drive a 130PS.

I think the 1.6 thats in the focus, peugeot, volvo and mazda is actually same powerplant?.

I know

Somebody eliminated Pug/Cit on reliability grounds, and yet the Mondeo remains ??????

ds20prefecture

prospect wrote:

Somebody eliminated Pug/Cit on reliability grounds, and yet the Mondeo remains ??????

PSA diesel engines are extremely reliable. I think the quality of assembly of the rest of the car lets the case down (particularly in Citroën's case, although there's talk of that improving with the new generation of cars).

Fords haven't been badly built for a while now.