Diesels

css

You'd be barking mad to spend big money on a motor when doing that kind of mileage. Spend 15k max, and get yourself something that's rock solid. Stay away from BMW/Merc/the other premium brands. Remember you're gonna have 100k in 3 years, you're forgetting to factor in servicing costs for the motor. Diesels need more frequent services than petrols.

bazz26

Shane Smith wrote:

I have 96' Mondeo Turbo Diesel...if I don't go crazy on the turbo charge I would get over 400 miles on a full tank (usually costs about €60 to fill, people have told me this is a fairly large tank???)

I don't think 400 miles from €60 of diesel is great. I have a 1.8 petrol Avensis and get 325 miles from a full tank for €50.

bazz26

jayok wrote:

Hi All,

This discussion has been really helpful and I think I'm going to shorten the test-drive list to the following:

1. Accord
2. Avensis
3. Mondeo
4. 320D (for the craic)



Need to work out the math for purchase price, mpg and taxes for each and see simply which I prefer.

As for trade-in prices the dealers will sell you anything these days. So I could trade-in the Civic to a Honda dealer and purchase the Toyota off them also. Of course the servicing will be done by a Toyota dealer.

Now, off to book me some test drives

You might also want to check out the new VW Passat TDi which goes on sale next month. The new model is larger than the existing model and should be better to drive.

css

Most I've gotten from mine is 670 miles from 57Litres in an avensis 2.0td. Something wrong with your mondeo Shane..

Ok let me restate 3-4k miles per month is 36-48k miles a year. You are f**king cracked to go out and buy a brand new motor with your own money. Fair enough if the company is buying it for you, otherwise it's down to reducing your costs.

If you want some sensible suggestions, apart from forking out 40k+ for a car that's gonna be worth SFA in three years, I'll gladly suggest something, otherwise go out there and buy whatever you want. But I guarantee after a year you'll regret it.

halkar

Shane that is a very bad mileage for diesel on €60 tank. I think your tank is 60 litres same as mine. I just filled the tank and I was on 630 miles, petrol light was not lighting yet.

I agree with all the above, it is loose loose situation when one doing a lot of mileage. Jayok, don't forget Accords are 2.2L and you are looking at at least €35k for a year old as I think they only came out last year.
Sorry for repeating myself but for cheap motoring you can not beat the pugs and cits with 1.6 hdi diesels

Duckjob

Shane Smith wrote:

I have 96' Mondeo Turbo Diesel...if I don't go crazy on the turbo charge I would get over 400 miles on a full tank (usually costs about €60 to fill, people have told me this is a fairly large tank???)

Despite what people have said here about it being "agricultural" etc etc well I suppose it is a bit noisy but I would have no complaints with the drive itself (I do a lot of commercial mileage so it gets well used trust me)

Tax is €484 annually, feels very light on the diesel and very large boot space. Worth a look I'd say....

Shane, you might want to get your car checked out, because thats pretty crap mpg actually. I can wring 160mls out of a €20 fill in my (petrol) CRX, with town driving, with more on open road trips. I'd expect a lot more economy from a diesel.

Shane Smith

and here's me thinking I was doing well!

During a recent repair I was quizzing mechanic about this sort of stuff, he did say using the turbo boost ultimately used more fuel (I did notice this meself anyway) - would get about 450miles at a *real* stretch driving like a granny...

Is there anything that can actually improve this or would u reckon its just d nature of d old Ford diesels???

tbh I'm just running it into the ground so not gonna spend loads but do no harm to squeeze better mpg out of the darn thing, I done that online mpg calculator thing and it came up with 35mpg.....hmmmm

css

Shane the turbo on a diesel actually kicks in about 1600-1800 rpm. So if you drive the car at all you will be using it. You could try getting some injector cleaner for your car, but it sounds to me like the injectors themselves are knackered. Also make sure you have a nice clean air filter, that can affect the mpg by up to 20%.

Duckjob

Injectors
Air filter
Fuel filter
Tyre pressures
Ignition timing etc.

Individually they won't make TOO much difference, but put them all together and you may as well be towing a grand piano and an anchor around with you all the time.

full forward

I was in the same boat as yourself recently. I went for a 03 Audi a4 diesel 130bhp. The 320D was nice but other road users treat bmw drivers like crap. The Accord is very quiet but a heavy depreciator. I was tempted by the new Volvo S40. The 1.6 diesel S40 is quiet nice to drive and if you go for the SE premium pack you get everything. Xenon lights, electric heated leather seats with memory, auto dimming rear view mirror, a stereo with 12 speakers, rear parking sensors and a rain sensor. And of course dual zone climate.

Down side of the S40 is that its a bit small. The boot especially. Depreciation will also be a problem.

I went for the A4 because it feels great to drive. Nice safe acceleration. Lowish depreciation.

css

Sorry I don't see how any car can have low depreciation if you are doing 40k miles a year in it..

full forward

css wrote:

Sorry I don't see how any car can have low depreciation if you are doing 40k miles a year in it..

A mondeo doing 40k a year will dipreciate quicker then an A4 doing 40k a year. THerefore I get a nicer car and it costs less.

css

Excuse me? How exactly will it cost you less? How much did you spend on the A4 in the first place? And how much is an A4 with 120k miles worth? You are in for a bit of a shock.. Couple that with your nice high Audi servicing costs, and it all adds up.

full forward

Ill only be doing about 20k a year and the car will only need a service once a year so that not realy an issue.

Just did a quick search on carzone.ie

modeo diesel 75,000 2002 €14,995 ( cost about 31k new) (16k drop)
A4 1.9 TDI 78,000 2002 €25,950 ( cost about 39k new) (13k drop)

yop

I don't think 400 miles from €60 of diesel is great. I have a 1.8 petrol Avensis and get 325 miles from a full tank for €50.

That is chronic lad, I have 1.6 Petrol Focus and for a fill of 48 euro (97.8c) I get 460 odd miles, and I like to give her pedal.

My brother in law has the 2L TDCI (135) '04 reg mondeo and it is a weapon.
Cousin has brand new Ghia, I think it is higher than 135bhp)),, Oh my god I had some crack in it, for a diesel that is!

Peace

We already did the mpg thread like a week ago so if you're looking for that sort of adivce then there;s plenty of figures back down the board a bit.

Opel Vectra 1.9 Diesel Estate is what i drive.
City driving - 450miles to a 55ltr (approx) fill
Open Road driving - 550miles+ to a 55ltr (approx) fill

The Opel diesels are gand machines.

But if you're doing a lot of miles, which the OP has said he is... then you'd be mad to go for Audi/BMW/Merc unless you'#ve got money to throw away, in which case you're just rich.

Value for money is the skoda 1.9/2.0 TDi. 55mpg. I'll be buying a car in the next 12 months and i think i'll be going for the Ocatvia TDi Combi (estate).... as much as i want an A4 i just can't shell out that sort of cash... poor me...

css

So double the mileage, the audi might suit you, but does it suit doing 40k miles a year?

Good luck leaving your oil in the car for 20k miles by the way. I don't care what kinda oil it is, 20k miles on oil is too much for a diesel.

Just from checking around the cheapest tdci mondeo is just under 28k right now. the cheapest a4 is 38k.

Now give it 5 years and 75k miles later: A4 worth 16k Mondeo worth 11k, Both taken from cbg. We can argue about this and that, and give examples here and there all we want. But bear in mind the prices quoted on most of those websites are a lot higher than you would actually get on trading in because they are trade asking prices.

What I am saying is that with cars of that mileage you have to take more than just depreciation into account. How much does your average oil change cost for an Audi? And a timing belt change? Bear in mind that you'll have 4-5 services minimum a year with high mileage. And a timing belt change in just over a year. Couple that with tyres and other stuff and it all adds up. So arguing that a car depreciates a few grand less a year, when the service costs are so much higher is the wrong outlook. I'm taking an objective economic POV here, not dissing yer motor or anything.

full forward

The mondeo will also need tyres and oil changes and timing belts. So maybe the A4 will cost 300 a year more to service, thats nothing overall. It might add up for someone who feels they need to service it 3 or 4 times a year.

Modern audi diesels can do 20k before needing a service. If you put in the cheaper oil you get 10k.

The price of the new A4 is higher than the old one. Mine is the 03 model with 11k miles on it.

When it comes to selling a mondeo you will be competing with dozens of others. The A4 you might be upaginst three or four. I always sell my cars privately so I know how it works. Bear in mind you should always buy a car that will be easy to sell.

The A4 will cost me less in the long run its a fact. I would save nothing if I got a mondeo instead so why bother? I'm taking an even more objective economic POV here.

css

So put this argument against mine, spending no more than 15k on a 3 year old used diesel with less than 60k on the clock. And then do your figures. I've no idea what audi servicing costs are tbh, I've heard their hourly charge is about 100 euros an hour? Right/Wrong? Toyota charge 50 an hour. 80 euros for an oil service. I do 90% of the work on my own car myself, I do over 35k a year.

How much does it cost for a standard Audi service?
How much does it cost for a standard Audi Timing belt change?

alias no.9

full forward wrote:

When it comes to selling a mondeo you will be competing with dozens of others. The A4 you might be upaginst three or four.

CBG.ie have 40 are used diesel A4's between 2002 and 2004 and 34 used diesel Mondeos between 2002 and 2004.

full forward

Good point. But when you drive down the road you see a lot more mondos then A4s. There seems to be a lot of 03 and 04 A4s at the moment. THis might explain why I got a discount on mine. It cound be down to the fact that a New A4 has just come out.

halkar

I wouldn't worry about too much on the depreciation depending on the mileage as you will be saving up to €2k a year on diesel costs maybe less for older diesels but you still save. The new 1.6 diesels are very good value, less tax, few euro saving on the insurance and cheap servicing. Costs me about €300 a year for standard service (2 service) and I have a very friendly Cit garage which is why I stayed with Cit after Xsara.

I heard the turbo is always on for these new engines and so I noticed. I can do 50km to 150km on the 5 gear with no lag

alias no.9

full forward wrote:

Good point. But when you drive down the road you see a lot more mondos then A4s. There seems to be a lot of 03 and 04 A4s at the moment. THis might explain why I got a discount on mine. It cound be down to the fact that a New A4 has just come out.

Usually when nearing the end of a product lifecycle slaes drop. I would wager that there are close to the same number of A4's registered each year as mondeos. It will seem like there are less second hand ones on the forecourt because A4's are easier to shift and spend less time on the forecourt. Just because something costs more, doesn't mean it's more exclusive. The BMW 3 series outsells the Mondeo right across western europe.

css

This is the problem with asking for advice on what to buy on a forum. Everyone will recommend this car and that. What you seriously need to look at doing is set yourself a list of priorities, and then use this list to select the cars that fit your requirements.

jayok

This is the problem with asking for advice on what to buy on a forum. Everyone will recommend this car and that. What you seriously need to look at doing is set yourself a list of priorities, and then use this list to select the cars that fit your requirements.

This discussion is good and it gives me some interesting food for thought. So I am glad it triggers all forms of input.

FYI I test drove an Avensis diesel today, I'm sorry to anyone who owns one but yawn! As a previous poster said the Accord is miles ahead in that area. I also gave the 320D a go, something solid about the BMW alright, but the servicing costs are just a joke (well off a main stealer anway) as it doesn't really matter how slow depreciation is after 100k it's not gonna be worth a whole lot.

So, ponder, ponder, ponder... On a trade-in the dealer will give me 30K for the Civic (bought the bleeding thing 9 months ago for 35K, but anyway). So that means I'd need to come up with 10K for an Accord Diesel. 40K for a car that'll last say 5-7 years. Hmmmm... it has all the comforts. BUT it's not a Type-R.

So how about this, I could but a 6-7 year old Merc Diesel for 12K with 100K+ miles on it. Even if it last 3 years it's only cost 4k / year in depreciation MPG is similar to a newer cars but servicing interval more regular. However, I would be happy to get a handy mechanic to service it for me. Is this a better idea. Are old merc's worth the hassle? I know taxi drivers love them so there must be something here.

Thanks for everyone's input so far.

unkel

jayok wrote:

So how about this, I could but a 6-7 year old Merc Diesel for 12K with 100K+ miles on it. Even if it last 3 years it's only cost 4k / year in depreciation MPG is similar to a newer cars but servicing interval more regular. However, I would be happy to get a handy mechanic to service it for me. Is this a better idea

It might very well be. A Merc of that age was made well before any quality issues started to show up in Mercs in recent years. Your worry about resale value is gone, cause you will more or less run it into the ground (economically) as you imply. I'd expect it to still be worth €2k at 10 years and 200+ k miles. MPG is not as good as a new Accord or an Avensis, but you do get a nice comfy barge. I'd go E-class over C-class (won't cost anything more except a little worse fuel consumption)

Total costs over 3 years will be greatly reduced!

bazz26

Well comparing an Avensis to an Accord is a bit unfair, as comparing a Mondeo with an A4. The Accord costs about €10k more so I would expect it to be better. Having owned a 1994 Honda Accord a good few years ago I can tell you that it was a better car but then again it cost more than the average Carina too.

Maybe the old Merc is the way to go but it could lead to a false economy where what you save in depreciation you could end up paying for repairs. Parts ware out whether it be a Merc or a Skoda.

Would be worth giving a bit more consideration though.

jayok

Well comparing an Avensis to an Accord is a bit unfair, as comparing a Mondeo with an A4. The Accord costs about €10k more so I would expect it to be better

Yeah, I know I am unfair in my comparision. I just alway seem to think that the Avensis, Primera and Accord are in the same class. Obviously they are not.

TBH with regard to repair costs, anything that's doing that kinda milage (or meterage) I am expect to be replacing bits on.

Interesting thing about the Avensis, is that it's base cost is cheaper but once you start loading it up to the same spec as the Accord (leather, cruise, sunroof, HIDs, etc) it's not that much cheaper. Also the best (according to the website) MPG that the 2.0 litre Avensis can get is 57.5 compare to the 2.2 litre Accord's 61.8 and the accord has more power and torque.

Anyhow I am now hunting an old Merc. Can live like Jeckle and Hyde - calm sensible Mercedes into work, manic boy racer in the Civic on the weekend. If I could only get the wife to agree!

css

Jayok, there's a new avensis 2.2 D4D on the way, that'll be smoother, more economical and more powerful than the Accord 2.2. It's a complete new model Avensis D4D180 they are calling it. (180bhp 400Nm torque)

Lexus are also fitting this engine in 175bhp format in the new IS200. Food for thought if you want to spend big bucks on a diesel I reckon.

jm2k

TDI A4's make sound financial sense (from a car perspective). Dad's just changed his 1.9TDI 130 for a 2.0TDI 140, quite nice it is too.