Digital TV system to be tested in Dublin

Velcrow

Thanks Antenna for the information on DTT....

Antenna wrote:

NO - unless dual DTT and satellite boxes become available here in the future!

Obviously if Irish channels went FTA on satellite you would be able to receive them on your existing box, but no sign of that happening at the moment

I can't understand why they dont take the FTA approach and I say this not because of any technological reason but for urban planning reasons.... ( my interest )

Is it the case that we will all have to put another "Antenna" on the chimney or roof, side wall...

have a look at any group of houses or apartments and all you see is the sat dishes or the VHF/UHF antennas.....?

or is it the case that DTT antennas could be errected indoors eg in the attic which would be great or do they need line of sight ?

finally could one DTT antenna be used for an entire complex or would it be more likely that it would be one antenna per household?

DMC

Loads of questions there...

The reason why RTE is subscription on satellite is two-fold. 1) that its subscription on other platforms e.g. cable (in most areas!) and 2) that RTÉ was paid by Sky to go onto satellite, as Sky could see that the Irish channels were a draw for their subscriptions, and provided RTÉ with the means. There won't be any change on this for the foreseeable future.

Antennas: If RTÉ/DCMNR/Comreg/BCI (whoever is ringmaster) stick to the DTT plan that I quoted a few posts ago, it should be fine with just an internal aerial (will bunny ears make a comeback ) The output quoted is way stronger than Freeview in the UK, and more houses there need new aerials because of that. Not necessarily the case with Three Rock, for instance. Line of sight is not necessary.

DTT would be very suitable for a communal system. One aerial on the roof of the complex properly fed means good times ahead. But we'd be talking a long, long time down the road before we know that a) this is fully endorsed by the broadcasters and authorities and b) its a public success before a landlord would spend money on a communal system for a system that might still be a white elephant.

But I'm really optimistic!

DMC

DMC wrote:

I missed this last time, sorry.
Any plans for frequencies to be used for DTT here (and they date back to 1998!) show only UHF for DTT in Ireland, so no to Band III.

Also, just on this comment, DVB-T might be used on Band III, and not DAB for Digital Radio. Page 6 of this article from Comreg shows this. Comreg are against the idea of a new DAB network, when, as proved in the UK, you can broadcast radio on DVB-T, and the sound is so much better than DAB. Comreg have DVB-T as thoery on Band III, but have confirmed UHF will be used.

Zaphod

At one time they had big plans, not just authentication, for the wireless return path (WINDS/WITNESS) including the provision of wireless internet access. Anyone know if that's still a goer?

http://www.rte.ie/about/europrojects/project.html

d-j-k

I read the article at the top of this thread and one thing struck me as incrediably stupid.

Why oh why would you test DTT in the Dublin area where almost no homes receive television directly off air and which has one of the highest cable penitration levels in Western Europe?

Surely the logical place to test this would be in a less built up area where it might provide an attractive alternative to poor chorus or ntl MMDS signals.

I still can't see how it will be commercially viable though espcially considering that we already have a form of DTT up and running in the guise of digital MMDS which is just DVB-T on microwave.

The only logical sollution would be to create a DTT network and allow chorus and NTL etc to have several multiplexs of channels on it in their fanchise areas. In return, they could shut down MMDS and bring an instant audience to the new DTT platform.

The Chorus digital boxes may even be usable on DTT with only a minor retune as they already use downconverted (To UHF) signals.

There's no way that two DTT system can compete with sky! The cable industry can barely compete never mind a washed out diluted version of Freeview that only offers RTE1 + as selling point!

byte

I agree with your comments regarding Dublin being used for the tests, though it does have the biggest population, and it's possibly handier for RTE to test within the city.

I do disagree that you think MMDS is a viable alternative to DTT off-air. For starters, MMDS requires direct Line of Sight, which isn't very practical in many areas. There is much more leeway using UHF, and it doesn't need direct LoS.

I suppose it is possible for either Chorus or NTL (maybe variate between Transmitters?) to use some Multiplexes. It would be something similar to Top-Up TV on Freeview, though there would probably be licensing issues etc to scupper things. Its possible though...

I look forward to receiving DTT from Faithful Truskmore!

falteringstar

Is it very likely that any eventual Irish DTT system would be incompatible with Freeview? Meaning is it very likely that what ever digiboxs etc that they use will not be able to pick up the british channels too?

byte

I'm not sure if a DTT box can actively receive from 2 different transmitters simultaneously. RTE may opt for some sort of different system, so that there are no conflicts... Not totally sure though.

dmm1000

DTT in Ireland - When the Government and/or RTE decide to spend some money ....... which will be lets see ........erm ..... about the year 2020

weehamster

Right. I would strongly advise against anybody buying anying to do with DTT for this Dublin Test.

Ive checked again with my engineering friend in RTE and he has rang around checking into this and again hes come back saying that this is all talk. Nothing is planned and this comes from somebody who would be running the tests.

Sorry

Macy

Antenna wrote:

NO - unless dual DTT and satellite boxes become available here in the future!

Well depends on the DTT spec. Dual boxes are available in the UK for Freeview and FTA Sat.

NewDubliner

weehamster wrote:

Ive checked again with my engineering friend in RTE and he has rang around checking into this and again hes come back saying that this is all talk. Nothing is planned and this comes from somebody who would be running the tests.

This wouldn't be the first time the government announced it was doing things, told everyone it was definitely going to happen & it turned out to be smoke & mirrors.

That said, just because something is 'digital' doesn't mean the quality is any good.

Johnny_the_fox

find for northerns with freeview?


here - select everything and northern ireland ... look below bbc three 3 :eek:


also under the good friday agreement and with analog being switched off? TNag has to go DTT no?




maybe am crazy

Charles Slane

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

find for northerns with freeview?


here - select everything and northern ireland ... look below bbc three 3 :eek:

I have no idea what the above means. It just looks like a list of Freeview channels.

Johnny_the_fox

Charles Slane wrote:

I have no idea what the above means. It just looks like a list of Freeview channels.

RTÉ 1 TV Proposed, TBC (subject to ROI DTT service)
RTÉ 2 TV Proposed, TBC (subject to ROI DTT service)
TV3 TV Proposed, TBC (subject to ROI DTT service)
TG4 TV Reported to be testing on Divis TX/analogue

Freeview channels - with rte tv3 and tnag?

byte

byte wrote:

I'm not sure if a DTT box can actively receive from 2 different transmitters simultaneously. RTE may opt for some sort of different system, so that there are no conflicts... Not totally sure though.

yes it can
well at least UK freeview can.
Received it once from presely,Blaenplwf and caradon all at the same time!

DMC

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

Freeview channels - with rte tv3 and tnag?

What that might imply is that RTÉ/TV3 would be recievable on northern Freeview boxes, subject to what way it is transmitted in the south and what overspill occurs.

Richard

DMC wrote:

What that might imply is that RTÉ/TV3 would be recievable on northern Freeview boxes, subject to what way it is transmitted in the south and what overspill occurs.

On current boxes, there might be a problem. On the RoI DTT service, RTE 1 would presumably be on ch 1. Yet BBC 1 would also be on BBC 1. Different boxes deal with clashes differently, and some not very elegently. For example, I can position my aerial so that it pulls some MUXes in from Winter Hill and some from a welsh transmitter. The channel listing ends up like this:

BBC ONE Wales
BBC ONE
BBC 2W
BBC TWO
ITV1....

Interestingly, the Channel name on Freeview has changed from "UTV" to "ITV1". Probably nothing to be read into on this, however...

DMC

Right and correct, as the EPG line-up is sent out and only on some boxes can you customise the channel line-up.

Antenna

Earthman wrote:

Not necessarally as many in this area will have a group B or a grid wideband already for presely.

yes but they will lose reception of the UK stations if they redirect that existing aerial to Mt Leinster - surely viewers will want to hold on to UK analogue reception for as long as it lasts?

In fact people receiving from Presely also looking to receive DTT from Mt Leinster will have to install a seperate downlead as well to the DTT receiver, a bit messy.
As it would be impossible to combine everything on the same downlead - for a start the Presely DTT will interfere with Mt Leinster DTT as some of them are co-channel

Perhaps they should look again at the DTT allocations - what if Mt Leinster was to use the same DTT channels as Mullaghanish (everything would be in Group - A so no change of group) If DTT is as robust as claimed this wouldn't be a problem??

BTW
I must correct myself - I stated Mt Leinster DTT was planned to be in Group B - in fact 2 of the 6 DTT channels are in group A - so a Group W would be used to cover all UHF analogue and digital from there as planned at present.

DMC

Isnt Wales the first analogue region to go totally off? Ulster being one of the last?

byte

DMC wrote:

Isnt Wales the first analogue region to go totally off? Ulster being one of the last?

Yes, you're right, DMC.

2008: Border, West Country and HTV regions

2009: Granada, Grampian, Scottish TV and HTV West regions

2010: Central, Anglia and Yorkshire regions

2011: Meridian, Carlton/LWT, Tyne Tees and Ulster regions

2012: Channel Islands

http://www.netcentral.co.uk/satcure/switchoff.htm

byrnefm

On the matter of receivers, I emailed Hauppauge about their Nova-T USB2 system, asking if it works on VHF as well as UHF, and I got the following reply:

Hi,

The Nova-t USB2 does not scan VHF channels, only the UHF range for digital
signals in the UK

Best regards,
...


Kinda surprised really, as they don't just target the UK!

Richard

byrnefm wrote:

Kinda surprised really, as they don't just target the UK!

Do any other countries use VHF DTT?

byrnefm

I don't know if Germany does or not but they do have receivers there that cover VHF for DBT, eg the TechniSat DigiPal1 and DigiPal2. Surely it wouldn't have costed much more to have included VHF capabilities in the Hauppauge version?

Telefís

Antenna wrote:

yes but they will lose reception of the UK stations if they redirect that existing aerial to Mt Leinster - surely viewers will want to hold on to UK analogue reception for as long as it lasts?

In fact people receiving from Presely also looking to receive DTT from Mt Leinster will have to install a seperate downlead as well to the DTT receiver, a bit messy.

Looks like I'm going to be facing a similar situation, albeit temporary, only with the added fun of Freesat (or whatever you call it) too. So the BBC we'll get via satellite, UTV & Ch4 by analogue from across the border, and RTÉ, TG4 & TV3 via DTT!
The telly's gonna blow!!!

rlogue

That response from Hauppauge is wrong - the WinTV Nova USB-2 *does* scan Band I & Band III as well as the Cable bands.

Charles Slane

Is there a PC card or USB2 tuner that receives both analogue and digital broadcasts ? PC tuners that I've seen so far seem to be either one or the other.

Also the ability to receive FM broadcasts would be nice.

lensman

Charles Slane wrote:

Is there a PC card or USB2 tuner that receives both analogue and digital broadcasts ? PC tuners that I've seen so far seem to be either one or the other.

Also the ability to receive FM broadcasts would be nice.

check this out here
you also see this brand in Lidl/Aldi and on ebay

Charles Slane

Thanks lensman !