Digital TV system to be tested in Dublin

ro2

Digital TV system to be tested in Dublin
Jamie Smyth Technology Reporter

The Government will unveil a pilot digital television project in Dublin next month and announce plans to switch off the existing RTÉ analogue television service.

The launch of the test service has been delayed for months due to legal problems over licensing but it is now expected to begin broadcasting in Dublin later this year. It will enable consumers with a digital television to receive up to 12 television and radio channels for free without having to pay a subscription fee.

In an interview yesterday, Minister for Communications Noel Dempsey said the service would form the first stage of a nationwide roll out of a digital terrestrial television service.

"We hope to have up to 12 channels available on the system, all the national channels and an additional six or seven channels for TV, video or radio services."

It is not yet clear if British channels such as BBC and UTV will be available on the free service.

Mr Dempsey said that the Government would switch off RTÉ's existing analogue free-to-air television service sometime between 2010-2015. The final date chosen for switch-off would probably be closer to 2010 than 2015, he said.

Digital terrestrial television services offer better quality sound and pictures to consumers and the ability to provide a much greater variety of channels.

However, consumers will have to buy new digital televisions or digital set-top boxes to receive the service as older analogue sets cannot pick up a digital signal.

In Britain, where a similar digital terrestrial television service is running, digital set-top boxes cost between €50 to €100.

Mr Dempsey said the Government had no choice but to set up a digital terrestrial television service because the existing analogue would become redundant.

He said the availability of analogue televisions and equipment would shortly become scarce and prices of analogue equipment would then begin to rise sharply.

Just last year the Government failed to set a date to move to digital broadcasting, despite a call by the European Commission to unveil a plan for analogue switch-off. In a submission to the commission the Government said it would continue analogue broadcasts for the medium-term.

It noted that 38 per cent of households in the Republic still depend on analogue terrestrial broadcasting, and as many as 90 per cent of homes use a normal aerial for extra TV sets.

Mr Dempsey said the Government has not yet concluded an analysis of the cost of upgrading the existing RTÉ Networks system to broadcast digital.

Analysts have speculated that upgrading the existing network for digital would cost between €40 and €100 million depending on the type of service and the coverage requirements demanded.

The Government and RTÉ first began preparing a strategy to introduce digital television in the Republic in 1997. But the first attempt to hold a competition to entice a private operator to set up and run a system ended in failure in 2002.

One bidder, known as It's TV, entered negotiations with the State for the licence. However it could not meet all the criteria demanded by the Government.

The Government has so far spent €2.59 million on consultants in relation to the roll-out of digital television. RTÉ has also spent more than €6 million on its digital plans, which included the abandoned sale of its RTÉ Networks division in late 2002.

Mr Dempsey said the lengthy delay in establishing a digital television service was caused by the failure of the previous licence competition. But he said in some respects the Republic was lucky to avoid the huge amounts of cash that were lost in Britain with the failure of a similar project.

He said he was confident the project would now be delivered.

"The demonstration of a pilot digital television service could be regarded as the first stage in the long-term roll out of digital terrestrial television," he added.

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JTMan

It is not yet clear if British channels such as BBC and UTV will be available on the free service.

There is no chance that the BBC will be available on a free service they have no obligation to provide a free service here.

It will enable consumers with a digital television to receive up to 12 television and radio channels for free without having to pay a subscription fee.

12 channels ... how crap can you get

Round Cable

Wonderful news, although I'll believe it when I see it, afterall Irish DTT was supposed to lauch at the same time as freeview. The BBC will not be part of any free service, unless RTÉ provide their channels on NI Freeview UTV and Channel 4 could see this a great advertising oportunity.

Charles Slane

Very interesting news ! Thansk ro2 !

So what channels COULD we expect to see ?

Sky News ? UTV ? They'd probably have the same problems as they have getting on Sky Digital. Channel 4 ? They don't seem to be all that interested in the Irish market.

Interesting times ahead.

I wonder what system they'll use - would a Freeview box pick up channels in Dublin from next month ?

JohnC.

Fungus wrote:

12 channels ... how crap can you get

I don't think 12 free channels is too bad for a country which only has 4 channels of its own. Do you expect all those other TV companies to provide their channels for free? More channels could be provided on a subscription basis, like that Top Up TV thing on Freeview in the UK.

Rippy

Will be intresting to see how soon DTT is tried on other transmitters and relays. I suspect will be along time being that maost relays do not even carry TV3 at present, despite having a frequency allocated.
I think it will be a long, long time before analogue switchoff.

byte

The 12 channels will include video and radio services, if I have read correctly. So, it's hardly going to be too exciting (unless somehow, Phantom FM gets carriage ).

I do think it's about time that DTT is being taken to the next level. I'd agree with Kahless that a Top-Up TV type service could be introduced for the UK terrestrials, though TV3 might whine about that too. Either that, or an extra levy on DTT users for the use of UK channels, eg a DTT license or something, though I guess this in turn would require a viewing card or something).

Telefís

Would this not mean then that most people who are able to recieve BBC, Ch 4 & UTV will continue to use analogue for as long as possible even after the launch of DTT?
Certainly I'd cling on rather than pay for a top up.

So is it possible that you'd have a looney setup of recieving the BBC via Freeview satellite with one box & dish, RTÉ/TG4/TV3 with another box via DTT terrestrial, and UTV/Ch 4 via analogue?!

JohnC.

RTE wrote:

So is it possible that you'd have a looney setup of recieving the BBC via Freeview satellite with one box & dish, RTÉ/TG4/TV3 with another box via DTT terrestrial, and UTV/Ch 4 via analogue?!

Analogue will be switched off at some point. In the UK before here. I assume that when it is switched off in the UK, you won't be able to get UTV/C4 on analogue any more and certainly not after it is switched off here.

Telefís

There'll still be quite a few years of crossover, 5 at least I'd say.

Still, as others have said, 12 channels is a good start - anything for God's sake, anything!!!

mike65

Given the penatration of cable and satellite here the market for a 12 channel box (4 of which are readily availible though I belive TV3 and TG4 are spotty in some areas) is going to be small one.

Mike.

Mossy Monk

Kahless wrote:

I assume that when it is switched off in the UK, you won't be able to get UTV/C4 on analogue any more

there are deflectors sourcing the UK channels from Sky Digiboxes now

as for Irish DTT i feel it is too little too late. as Mike points out, cable and satellite penetration is huge. for the majority, DTT will only be feasable as a source of digital tv for other tv's in a house imo

Telefís

True unfortunately in most cases...

When DTT does finally come on stream, what sort of tuners will be built into televison sets sold in Ireland? Ones capable of tuning the standard terrestrial digital signal of course, but what about others, especially considering the concept of a set-top box is already becoming an antiquated notion - as it should be...

channelsurfer

rte1
rte2
tv3
tg4
rte radio 1
rte 2fm
radio na gaeltacht
lyric fm
and posssilbe today fm
that makes 9 channels leaving 3 left. dont see much take up of it to be honest. especially if itv and c4 go fta.

Round Cable

channelsurfer wrote:

rte1
rte2
tv3
tg4
rte radio 1
rte 2fm
radio na gaeltacht
lyric fm
and posssilbe today fm
that makes 9 channels leaving 3 left. dont see much take up of it to be honest. especially if itv and c4 go fta.

Also Six and Sky News Ireland, for free, I'll certainly take it up, beats NTL's crappy picture on the Irish channels.

weehamster

I doubt six will be on it as they wont comply with Irish broadcasting laws. As for the the like of BBC, ITV, CH4. Thats a no no as who is going to pay for it and how can the right issue be resolved?

We don’t know if it will be 12 channel. RTE don’t even know the details. They have just heard about it recently just like you. But they wont do a thing until the ministers signature is on the dotted line.

So until that’s happens I think its time for Fantasy Channel Maker. If I was in charge (laugh) this is what I would have the following.

On top of the usual 4 I would have RTE+ and TV3+, basically the same programming as the original channels just different schedule. Its cheap as you have already paid for the rights and it allows needed space, say for an extra champion league game or Movie etc.
RTE News. It won’t be like Sky News as that is expensive. Instead it would be a mixture of Euronews meets Eurosport News. Cheap and effective and automated.
Den TV. RTE's monopoly of the Children’s day time can easily have its own channel which might free up RTE2 for, other stuff?
Maybe a Learning channel? Lets call it Léann, and you can have RTE's archive of Current affair, documentaries, information and style programmes like Off the Rails etc.

This may seem a bit much but really its not that expensive as RTE are using what they already have. If they follow the route of BBC and make more of their own stuff (and some of it isn’t bad at all), its possible. :rolleyes:

ro2

Just before RTE goes and spends a small fortune rolling this out, would they not be better off using a system that supports HD from the start. Instead of having to upgrade every box in a few years time when they get on the HD bandwagon they could be using hardware that will make the switch over easier.

With MPEG4 you can get a HD stream down to about 10mb/s so there should be enough room to broadcast RTE 1 and RTE 2 in HD before the analogue channels are switched off, then after the analogue channels are gone they could add more HD content.

byrnefm

I can see it now - the UK channels don't get put on digital TV, so in 2012, when Northern Ireland's analog service is switched off, all the deflectors in the Republic of Ireland will start beaming in the digital channels instead

Elmo

Also Six and Sky News Ireland, for free, I'll certainly take it up, beats NTL's crappy picture on the Irish channels.

Would Six not have to look for an Irish licence if it wants to be free to air.

RTE 1
RTE 2
TV3
TG4
RTE News
Setanta Sport
The City Channel
And what ever other channels that the BCI licence for Cable should also be free to air.

Maybe a Learning channel? Lets call it Léann, and you can have RTE's archive of Current affair, documentaries, information and style programmes like Off the Rails etc.

RTÉ Eolas Sounds better then Léann.

Dail TV
EuroNews

Also would it not be better to test the service in rural areas where MMDS and Sat take up is still small?

I am from dublin but please, Why does it always have to be dublin?

DMC

Interesting news alright.

As for Dublin-centric... If its RTÉ engineers that are doing it, then they are Dublin based. On the flip side, the UK government are turning off analogue in two Welsh villages today.

JohnC.

Mossy Monk wrote:

there are deflectors sourcing the UK channels from Sky Digiboxes now

Legally?

Capt'n Midnight

ro2 wrote:

"We hope to have up to 12 channels available on the system, all the national channels and an additional six or seven channels for TV, video or radio services."

You can fit more than one radio service in the bandwidth of a TV channel but 6 channels ain't going to tempt people unless you can dispense with SKY / NTL for your TK Terresterial fix.

The final date chosen for switch-off would probably be closer to 2010 than 2015, he said.

or ten past eight some evening at an unspecified time in the future

He said the availability of analogue televisions and equipment would shortly become scarce and prices of analogue equipment would then begin to rise sharply.

Not unless China and all the other countries where they are made go digital.

Analysts have speculated that upgrading the existing network for digital would cost between €40 and €100 million depending on the type of service and the coverage requirements demanded.

:eek:
I know it's a little more complicated than just sending a different type of UHF signal across the repeators but each bouquet uses about the same bandwidth 8MHz than each of old channels.

Could the raw bouquet be repeated by a 2.4GHz video sender and then decoded in a set top box ? 2.4GHz is license free and there would be no decryption or decoding at the communal aerial

weehamster

I was on to my engineer friend in RTE who would be directly involved with any DTT project and he knows nothing about this at all. He says that this is just rumours.

Elmo

I was on to my engineer friend in RTE who would be directly involved with any DTT project and he knows nothing about this at all. He says that this is just rumours.

Nice to see the minister spread rumours.

Mike 1972

If one has a deflector licence then there is no difference between sourcing the UK channells on UHF and sourcing them off a digital box

Not unless China and all the other countries where they are made go digital

They probably will though long before Ireland do :rolleyes:

Could the raw bouquet be repeated by a 2.4GHz video sender and then decoded in a set top box ? 2.4GHz is license free and there would be no decryption or decoding at the communal aerial

2.4GHZ is pretty jam packed in some areas what with community broadband CCTV and suclike

lawhec

Certainly for many of us up here if RTÉ were to start DTT transmissions it'll be more than welcomed - though of course they'd have to expand outside of Dublin first!

Even if it is just the current four terrestials the benefit of receiving them via DTT would be a reasonably cleaner signal for many people, the need for a UHF aerial only (at least that is the plan) , the possibility of TV3 extending their coverage, some interactive services (more likely using MHP rather than MHEG used in the UK) and once RTÉ get the finger out of their arse from testing, widescreen! All without paying Uncle Rupert a cent!

I also understand that all TG4's productions have been filmed in widescreen since they started.

byte

I'd buy DTT box (or two) just for the convenience of widescreen on RTE (DD5.1 woudl be pushing it). I do think that the 4 UK Terrestrials would be DTTs biggest selling point, if they were carried. As I believe, RTE are already working on a digital text service (planned for Sky I had thought), so this could be used. Then of course the obligitory Sky News etc...

Setanta Sport would be enticing, though unlikely to be FTA across the nation

a bientot

All embassies are obliged to report back to hq on the major event of the week in their respective countries......
In the case of France it's the launch of TNT (dtt) to a rather enthusiastic nation where 75% of households have only had five channels and a small percentage have paid up to view the pay channel Canal plus. From 19h last evening 31 March, TNT provides 14 'free' channels available through a decoder costing about 70 euros to over 35% of the population with a roll out to over 85% of the country by 2008. Around 100,000 (MPeg2) decoders have been sold with at least one million sales expected by year end.
Of course the news of the launch of this event in France was passed to Minister Dempsey's office....... so article in The Irish Times on Monday last and an in-depth interview on Newstalk106 -MediaMatters- at 12h on Sunday 3 April 2005....
The CSA (equivalent of our BCI) decided that 14-15 was the maximum that could survive on the advertising pie in France so the next 15 will be pay channels in MPeg4. There are seventy applicants and there is a rumour that MTV has applied but the CSA is not amused.
As far as Ireland is concerned I doubt if more than eight will be in the basic 'free' digital package with perhaps another 15 to 20 in a pay package.

Yes, it is no wonder that a certain media multi-national with offices in Clontarf and Waterford and 340,000 customers has decided to call it a day......

Elmo

Yes, it is no wonder that a certain media multi-national with offices in Clontarf and Waterford and 340,000 customers has decided to call it a day......

I think they are just saying "HOW MUCH DID WE PAY FOR THIS?" :rolleyes:

icdg

a bientot wrote:

All embassies are obliged to report back to hq on the major event of the week in their respective countries......
In the case of France it's the launch of TNT (dtt) to a rather enthusiastic nation where 75% of households have only had five channels and a small percentage have paid up to view the pay channel Canal plus. From 19h last evening 31 March, TNT provides 14 'free' channels available through a decoder costing about 70 euros to over 35% of the population with a roll out to over 85% of the country by 2008. Around 100,000 (MPeg2) decoders have been sold with at least one million sales expected by year end.
Of course the news of the launch of this event in France was passed to Minister Dempsey's office....... so article in The Irish Times on Monday last and an in-depth interview on Newstalk106 -MediaMatters- at 12h on Sunday 3 April 2005....
The CSA (equivalent of our BCI) decided that 14-15 was the maximum that could survive on the advertising pie in France so the next 15 will be pay channels in MPeg4. There are seventy applicants and there is a rumour that MTV has applied but the CSA is not amused.
As far as Ireland is concerned I doubt if more than eight will be in the basic 'free' digital package with perhaps another 15 to 20 in a pay package.

Yes, it is no wonder that a certain media multi-national with offices in Clontarf and Waterford and 340,000 customers has decided to call it a day......

Canal Plus has always dominated Pay TV in France, they were one of the only countries I know of that had a pay-TV terrestrial TV channel! Any company that tries to take them on via DTT I suspect will have their work cut out for them.

Anyway, back to Ireland. I suspect that any DTT service, pay-TV or not, will have trouble making inroads to NTL (or their successor) and Sky. It may well be that a free DTT service may have a role in providing digital to second TVs (I know people in the UK who have bought Freeview boxes to convert portables or second TVs, but use Sky or NTL/Telewest for their main TV). But I doubt a pay service will be successful. And for any service to supplant Sky or NTL as the main platform for any household, it needs to offer the UK terrestrials.

Elmo

But I doubt a pay service will be successful. And for any service to supplant Sky or NTL as the main platform for any household, it needs to offer the UK terrestrials.

Supplying UK terrestrials will be the downfall of any DTT. Why bother if your just plan to rebroadcast UK TV? (A question TV3 should ask themselves). Also I don't think TV3 would be to happy with ITV on DTT in Ireland.

The few households that do not have subsriptions to any service provider i.e. NTL and Sky should be given a FTA box from RTÉ, just even for reception purposes to begin with.

Each of the Service providers should under the law provide all FTA DTT Channels on there services. Rather then trying to get people who already have Digital TV to pick up FTA DTT, a FTA card should also be provided by Chorus, NTL and Sky for use on there set top boxes and if people what to pay more for their services let them.

We need to start trying to keep advertising money in Ireland. Money which would be taxed. Money that should go towards employing people in the industry.