Eircom press release, 1M -> 4M DSL

LFCFan

ZENER wrote:

Why is it fashionable to bash Eircom at every possible opportunity

1) They have allowed the network to degrade to such a level, that there is a huge failure rate for DSL
2) They have one of the highest line rental rates in the world, while at the same time having some of the worst lines
3) They have stalled the rollout of DSL for so long, we are now playing catchup with the likes of Estonia (No offence to Estonia)
4) The continue to offer worse products then their resellers and harp on about being the best
5) Katherine Thomas
6) Rather than follow in BT's footpath and make sure everyone who applies can get broadband, they take the 'tough luck' attitude with people who's line fails.
7) Employing some of the worst customer service people on the planet
8) Taking Comreg to the courts for every decision that doesn't go their way and futhur keeping Ireland in the telecommunications stoneage.

I'm sure people can add more to the list.

Orion

ZENER wrote:

Why is it fashionable to bash Eircom at every possible opportunity, I've seen threads where they have been blamed for the distance over which ADSL can be feasible, come on guys !!
ZEN

Blaming them for the effective distance of ASDL is just ignorance of the facts. Some people don't know enough about it and blame the likliest target.

As for fashionable? Only because they deserve it. Eircom are unprofessional, uncompetitive and inefficient. They've hindered competition for years with their abusive monopoly status to be detriment of the consumer. They are still hindering LLU. They're own pricing structure is too high. And now that I've switched to Esat for the phone service I can't get rid of their f**king telemarketers trying to win me back.

Those good enough reasons?

Orion

zoro wrote:

And I've not only seen it with Eircom, I've witnessed complaints in person so plenty of retail shops in Dublin ... it may not sound like much, but the Irish attitude of "Ah sure it'll be all right, I'll just pay the money anyway" is changing rapidly. And about time too.

We're not quite as willing to lay down and take it in the ass anymore

Hear Hear! For far too long us Irish have paid through the nose for $hit quality service/products (not just Eircom here) and then bitched about it afterwards. Finally we're starting to refuse to take it.

ZENER

zoro wrote:

Eircom have a very bad reputation when it comes to the consumer.

As the biggest telecoms provider in Eire theres obviously going to be more disgrunled customers but as a percentage of base how do they rate ? I've read a lot of complaints on boards.ie about UTV's customer service record and their unfair contract T&Cs. My point was about the conspiracy theorists and VoIP, Smart only offer 128K up too why is no-one bashing them, you can't blame Eircom for their limitations can you ?

When Eircom start treating the consumer with the respect they deserve, they will receive our blessing.

I doubt it somehow, even now that they've introduced 1,2 and 4Mb they still get bashed, even though their prices compare well with the rest of Europe !!

For now, they will simply receive our bashing. We're quite sick and tired of being ripped off, and FINALLY, over the past year or so, some major speaking-up has been done.

Complaining is always a good way to improve circumstances, but what usually happens is exactly what happens here, everyone tars them with a brush they've never seen !! Only mention the word Eircom and immediately a whole plethora of moaners crawl out and recite what everyone else says while never having actually had a bad experience because they've never used Eircom !!!

And I've not only seen it with Eircom, I've witnessed complaints in person so plenty of retail shops in Dublin ... it may not sound like much, but the Irish attitude of "Ah sure it'll be all right, I'll just pay the money anyway" is changing rapidly. And about time too.

We're not quite as willing to lay down and take it in the ass anymore

Don't get me wrong, I'd be the first in line to complain if I wasn't happy about a service provided to me, I'll give them a chance to fix things first. I don't suddenly start to blame my local grocer shop for the price of crude oil just because they sell Spry !!! I'm just asking that people talk about their own experiences with providers not drag up what supposedly happened to the brother-in-law of the cousinof the guy next door but three !!!

ZEN

echomadman

ZENER wrote:

As the biggest telecoms provider in Eire theres obviously going to be more disgrunled customers but as a percentage of base how do they rate ? I've read a lot of complaints on boards.ie about UTV's customer service record and their unfair contract T&Cs. My point was about the conspiracy theorists and VoIP, Smart only offer 128K up too why is no-one bashing them, you can't blame Eircom for their limitations can you ?

Clearly you missed the thread where everyone bashed smart for only offering 128 up.

zoro

ZENER wrote:

As the biggest telecoms provider in Eire theres obviously going to be more disgrunled customers

Can't argue on that point - that's just a problem for when you're on top

I doubt it somehow, even now that they've introduced 1,2 and 4Mb they still get bashed, even though their prices compare well with the rest of Europe !!

They have upped only the download speeds. The vast majority of complaints in this thread has to do with the upload speeds. 2 and 4 meg down is superb (by irish standards) but 128k up is simply ridiculous.
I'm a heavy gamer - and 128k is simply unacceptable at this stage.

Only mention the word Eircom and immediately a whole plethora of moaners crawl out and recite what everyone else says while never having actually had a bad experience because they've never used Eircom !!!

I've been on Esat's broadband for nearly 2 years now, I've never tried Eircom. The reason I made that choice was down to Eircom's bad reputation when it came to value for money. I also took into account the caps at the time.

I don't suddenly start to blame my local grocer shop for the price of crude oil just because they sell Spry

Pretty bad analogy there. It IS Eircom's fault that the other DSL providers are limited to 512 for home users. (were limited - sorry). It IS Eircom's fault that we're still paying sky high prices for line rental on lines that are so poor (physically) that so many of them fail Eircom's DSL tests.

And finally, it IS Eircom's fault that they have the poor name that they have at the moment. Make no mistake about it, and don't even try to put a fresh little daisy on Mr. Eircom's head to make him look appealing. He's not getting my money

ZENER

echomadman wrote:

Clearly you missed the thread where everyone bashed smart for only offering 128 up.

Clearly you've missed my point ! :rolleyes:

ZEN

ZENER

zoro wrote:

They have upped only the download speeds. The vast majority of complaints in this thread has to do with the upload speeds. 2 and 4 meg down is superb (by irish standards) but 128k up is simply ridiculous.
I'm a heavy gamer - and 128k is simply unacceptable at this stage.

Fair enough, have Eircom actually said they won't be increasing the U/L speeds ?

I've been on Esat's broadband for nearly 2 years now, I've never tried Eircom. The reason I made that choice was down to Eircom's bad reputation when it came to value for money. I also took into account the caps at the time.

Bingo !!! Reputation !!! So you don't actually KNOW for a fact about any of these points ? Have you, like a lot of others, based you decision on the roumor mill ? Granted the D/L cap wasn't/isn't the best but compared to some products in the UK it compares well. AFAIK Eircom quote a Download Cap, IOL quote a d/l&u/l cap of 16GB inclusive for their "Plus" customers! Do you think it would be fair if people based their opinions of your employer on roumors or heresay of the type propagated here on boards.ie ?

Pretty bad analogy there. It IS Eircom's fault that the other DSL providers are limited to 512 for home users. (were limited - sorry). It IS Eircom's fault that we're still paying sky high prices for line rental on lines that are so poor (physically) that so many of them fail Eircom's DSL tests.

Haven't SMART just introduced a product independant of Eircom ? Are they limited to 512K ? Businesses all over the world resell other companies products, IOL and UTV are the same, they could just as easily set up a wireless sytem.

And finally, it IS Eircom's fault that they have the poor name that they have at the moment. Make no mistake about it, and don't even try to put a fresh little daisy on Mr. Eircom's head to make him look appealing. He's not getting my money

I accept we may have to disagree here because I believe Eircom are the victims of their own success and of the Irsh publics love of begrudgery.

ZEN

Orion

ZENER wrote:

Fair enough, have Eircom actually said they won't be increasing the U/L speeds ?

Yes. It's earlier in this thread - 2nd page I think. Residential: 128/1024 or 128/2048.

zoro

ZENER wrote:

Fair enough, have Eircom actually said they won't be increasing the U/L speeds ?

Macros just replied above

Bingo !!! Reputation !!! So you don't actually KNOW for a fact about any of these points? Have you, like a lot of others, based you decision on the roumor mill?..... Do you think it would be fair if people based their opinions of your employer on roumors or heresay of the type propagated here on boards.ie ?

1, and 2: I, like all informed comsumers, researched all available options to me at the time, and Esat turned out the best. I was perfectly willing to go with Eircom if they provided the best service. Yes it would have been against my original decision, but in the end a better service was provided by Esat.
3: Hearsay? It's a proven fact that Eircom charge more for their services, despite their resellers charging less. They offer less value for their prices. And again I bringup the line-rental and line-quality...

Haven't SMART just introduced a product independant of Eircom?

Yes they have, but I've yet to hear of anyone other than Garfield who has actually used the service

I accept we may have to disagree here because I believe Eircom are the victims of their own success and of the Irsh publics love of begrudgery.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree so - your belief is that Eircom's naysayers are simply badmouthing them because they're fighting for the underdogs such as UTV and Esat
I, on the other hand, complain about Eircom for their unfair monopoly, and their constant refusal to help out the Irish consumer by providing value for money, and a good service

_Kaiser_

and now that I've switched to Esat for the phone service I can't get rid of their f**king telemarketers trying to win me back.

Don't get me started.. every 2/3 months I get a visit from them - usually while I'm at work, but they ALWAYS call back. I've told them 3/4 times now that I'm with UTV and won't be switching back to them, but they're STILL hassling me.

Funny enough it never happened when I was living in Coolock tho, and I had UTV then too..............

Anyway to get them to leave me alone? With single billing now supposedly being implemented (finally), I won't be getting anything from them anyway, right?

PiE

ZENER wrote:

128Kb/S is seen as "CD Quality" rate for music reproduction.

I stopped reading your posts after this point.

zoro

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Funny enough it never happened when I was living in Coolock tho, and I had UTV then too..............

I'm in Coolock with Esat

Interesting ... I've had very very few telemarketers call, and when they do my dad (I'm still living at home at the moment) hands the phone to me to give out my usual rant on unfair prices and that I never want them to ring this number ever again.

Works though Haven't had a call in a few months

_Kaiser_

[offtopic]
Well when I was living in Coolock, we never got begging, telemarketing, sales people or anyone like that calling to the door... maybe it was the "rough" part of Coolock I was in?

When I moved to Blanch tho, it took some getting used to the Christians, refugees (one called in April and wished me a "Happy New Year"??), Sales people and yes, eircom telemarketing people!! [/offtopic]

echomadman

ZENER wrote:

Clearly you've missed my point ! :rolleyes:

ZEN

No i saw your point, I dont agree with it as people did vocally complian about smarts upload offering, you said no one did and we're only doing it now to be eircom bashing bandwagon hoppers

I accept we may have to disagree here because I believe Eircom are the victims of their own success and of the Irsh publics love of begrudgery.

consumers have been the victims of monopolistic business practise and cynical heel dragging by eircom over the last 5 years, I'm astonished you think eircom is the victim of anything. i've a general disdain for the bregrudery that is rampant in irish society, but in this case all the vitriol heaped on eircom is very much deserved

zoro

echomadman wrote:

consumers ... victims ... monopolistic business practise ... cynical ... astonished ... general disdain ... bregrudery ... rampant ... vitriol ... deserved

*gets out dictionary*
Smart b*stard

LFCFan

ZENER wrote:

victims of their own success

You're having a laugh aren't you? Victims of their own success? They've taken a relatively decent telecoms infrastructure and bled it to the point that it would take 2 Billion (figure comes from their own report) to get it back to acceptable levels.

ZENER

PiE wrote:

I stopped reading your posts after this point.

Why ? a 128Kb MP3 is widely accepted as "CD Quality" by most promoters of the format. Notice that cd quality is in quotes. My point here was that VoIP is more than possible over 128K.

ZEN

oceanclub

ZENER wrote:

I accept we may have to disagree here because I believe Eircom are the victims of their own success and of the Irsh publics love of begrudgery.

Speaking as both a former employee and former customer of Eircom, it is my considered opinion that you are speaking out of your wazoo. For more details, search boards for my many and varied postings on how pathetic their service is.

P.

ZENER

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Don't get me started.. every 2/3 months I get a visit from them - usually while I'm at work, but they ALWAYS call back. I've told them 3/4 times now that I'm with UTV and won't be switching back to them, but they're STILL hassling me.

Funny enough it never happened when I was living in Coolock tho, and I had UTV then too..............

Anyway to get them to leave me alone? With single billing now supposedly being implemented (finally), I won't be getting anything from them anyway, right?

Likewise I'm sick and tired of getting calls from telephone companies who start the conversation with
"Can I speak to the person who deals with your phone bill . . . "
Now I just say NO and hang up because they never actually manage to do what they say !!

For example
" We can save you up to 40% on your monthly phone bill"
How?
"Our international call rates are cheaper"
I don't make many international calls . . maybe 4 per year.
"Our national calls are cheaper"
I don't make many calls outside the 01 area . .
"Our local calls are cheaper than Eircom standard rates"
I don't pay their standard rates, I'm on a discount scheme.
"Oh, sorry then I guess we can't help you"

Couple this with the exhorbitant mobile rates they charge and there isn't any savings at all, in fact a work mate of mine who has 5 daughters over 15 at home took up the offer and was shocked to see a 200 euro increase in his bill (yes I actually saw the 2 bills side by side)because the majority of his calls were to mobiles !!! Of course they neglected to tell him this in their speel !

ZEN

tuxy

a monopoly victim of their own success?
lamo iv heard it all now

diarmo

ZENER wrote:

Why ? a 128Kb MP3 is widely accepted as "CD Quality" by most promoters of the format. Notice that cd quality is in quotes. My point here was that VoIP is more than possible over 128K.

ZEN

Damn it ZEN when was the last time you got 16kBytes/s on your uploads?
I get at best 12kBytes/s which is equiv. to 96kbit/s...and is NOT viewed as CD quality!!!

Later...........

tuxy

and dont forget overheads

ZENER

oceanclub wrote:

Speaking as both a former employee and former customer of Eircom, it is my considered opinion that you are speaking out of your wazoo. For more details, search boards for my many and varied postings on how pathetic their service is.

P.

I'm aware of the threads you mention, that's why I've posted here.

It's funny how this threads tone changed after page 2.Until then it was all praise for Eircom for doing this without any extra charge to the consumer, it's like people suddenly remembered - oh $h!t it's Eircom they're talking about better not praise them any more, let's see what crap can I bring up now . . . Then all the naysayers arrived and took over. Reminds me of the "What did the Romans ever do for us?" scene from Monty Python !!

ZEN

halenger

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Don't get me started.. every 2/3 months I get a visit from them - usually while I'm at work, but they ALWAYS call back. I've told them 3/4 times now that I'm with UTV and won't be switching back to them, but they're STILL hassling me.

[off topic]
We had two visits. The second time we told the guy never to return, thankfully they didn't, but we also noticed that he got into a car and drove away. They came specifically to our house to pester us. ... What...a...waste...of...money...
[/off topic]


[Back on topic, sorta]

I've only ever gotten 12kilobytes up also. And that'd be dedicating ones line. I've heard people complain, earlier on this thread I think, about using VIOP from the States to here or vice versa and the lag between waiting for the Irish side of the conversation to arrive made it almost unusable. It's not only about quality. It's about how long it takes for the conversation to arrive at the other end. It is data after all and a low upload makes a severe hinderence to having a decent conversation. At 128kilobits/sec it seems that quality and ability to have conversation are pretty much mutually exclusive.

ZENER

diarmo wrote:

Damn it ZEN when was the last time you got 16kBytes/s on your uploads?
I get at best 12kBytes/s which is equiv. to 96kbit/s...and is NOT viewed as CD quality!!!

Later...........

I was making a comparison to audio quality on VoIP. 96Kbs on a mono voice stream would exceed "CD Quality"

ZEN

zoro

ZENER wrote:

It's funny how this threads tone changed after page 2

On page 1:

Here's the wholesale prices which also gives the upload speeds. All resellers like IOL and UTV will be using these wholesale produces. These are just for the residential services.

The old products.

Service (IP) Products applicable to 3rd of April 2005
512/128 kb/s RA 24:1 EUR 27
512/128 kb/s RA 48:1 EUR 20.10

The new products.

Service (IP) Products applicable from 4th of April 2005
2048/128 kb/s RA 24:1 EUR 27
1024/128 kb/s RA 48:1 EUR 20.10

So the lower end products (e.g. Eircom's 40 euro DSL or UTV's 30 euro product) will be going up to 1024k download. The higher residential service (e.g. Eircom's 54 euro DSL) will be going up to 2048.

Upload speeds remain at 128k for the residential products. Caps should increase since the contention ratio is staying the same.

That was the second last post on the page.

4 posts later I posted:

128 up is still terrible
I'm really feeling the choke of that with only 2 pcs on the damn network

Also note that all those posts are minutes from each other - this is a very fast moving thread after all. As soon as page 3 reaches it's half way mark, Esat's first news break is released via Electric News.

People are happy about the new download speeds. We are not happy that Eircom and Eircom only, have restricted every one of it's resellers to 128k up for the home packages. Do some research, then shut up

Orion

ZENER wrote:

It's funny how this threads tone changed after page 2.Until then it was all praise for Eircom for doing this without any extra charge to the consumer,
ZEN

Maybe you should have another look at the first page.

Post #2: "maybe i can use my 8 gigs twice as fast now...."
Post #4: "can i really use my cap 4 times as fast now?"
Post #5: "Eircom are doing this so that they don't have to lower prices"
Post #8: "if they dont increase the caps then these higher speeds will be worthless"
Post #9: "Well it's such a shame they neglected to mention caps / contention / interleaving / upstream bandwidth changes"
Post #13 (Me): "caps and upload speeds. Anyone want to bet that they'll stay exactly the same?"
Post #14: "if there's no increase in caps this is pointless"

Seems like to me that we started right from the top

Orion

ZENER wrote:

I was making a comparison to audio quality on VoIP. 96Kbs on a mono voice stream would exceed "CD Quality"

ZEN

That would be fantastic. Now factor in full-duplex and you're seeing quality dropping a lot.

[edit]that's me done - I've fed enough trolls for today[/edit]

diarmo

ZENER wrote:

I was making a comparison to audio quality on VoIP. 96Kbs on a mono voice stream would exceed "CD Quality"

ZEN

When was the last time you got a MONO CD????