Smart to offer 2Mb Broadband for €35 with no line rental?

Sarsfield

Seems too good to be true. I there a catch to this? Rollout, involving LLU, starts next week.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2005/0207/smart.html

http://www.smarttelecom.ie/products/broadband/index.htm

Couch Potato

Available to me ...


What is the catch ???

Line Rental FREE for life ?

Slow Upload speed 128K ..

Fudge the contention question :

Quote :

What is the contention ratio on the Smart broadband product?
Smart Broadband is not designed around the concept of contention. Smart Telecom owns and operates its own high-capacity fibre-optic network. As any link in the Smart network approaches capacity, it will be automatically be upgraded. Smart Broadband users will continue to enjoy the unrestricted high-speed Internet access.

No info around downloads ...


Why wouldn't anyone go for this ?

Delphi91

Word of warning - Website allows you to check your number. I checked mine (which fails everytime I check with Eircom) and it says "Congratulations, Broadband is available to you!". That's only because my exchange is broadband -enabled but I'm too far away. Out of curiosity I went to the "Sign me up" screen and can't seem to find anything in the T&C that says provision is based on being actually able to have a broadband connection.

It also seems that if you register for this service, the form you fill in gives Smart permission to take over your calls. So, do your calls revert to you if you cannot receive broadband?

Mike

LFCFan

and says its progress will depend on gaining access to Eircom exchanges.

And there's the kicker. I can't imagine them having an easy job getting access to exchanges. According to their number checker, it will be available in my exhange in May/June. Of course even if this is true, I'm locked into a 12 month contract with UTV. Something tells me though, they won't be available that quick. €35 though for 2Mbit and line rental seems to good to be true! That basically means €10 a month for a 2Mbit connection.

Third_Echelon

Its definitely progress on the price issue. It'll be interesting to see how Eircom react to this...

seamus

Definitely curious, but a very welcome move. If they push ahead with it.

I put in my old phone number (deactivated 4 months ago) and it said that yes, Broadband is available to me, around July/August.

That says to me that they're just finding out which exchange you're connected to, not actually testing any lines, but they have a very definite rollout plan - my exchange is Lucan Ballydowd, so they must be planning to upgrade it in July/August.

If there's nothing in it about "depending on availability and line test", then perhaps they're going the "at all costs" route, and making sure that everyone who wants broadband, gets it.

This is Ireland though, and given our past experience with things that sound this good, I'm sceptical.

Emerson

My jaw has dropped..

My 12 months is up with EsatBT..
Pity the upload isn't 256, I'd rather that to a faster download to be honest but, sounds amazing!
I'd pay 49e/month if it had a 256k upload. Pity I can't get ntl.

Has to be too good to be true..
Download cap? I'm holding off until I hear a decent down\upload figure. Last thing I need is a dodgy cap.

wideband

Just gave them a call to check for further information....there site should be updated today with the download/uploads, caps etc detailed

looks quite promising, they have a TV, Phone and broadband package aswell

The Clown Man

rte website wrote:

Smart Telecom has announced plans to offer new broadband services to residential customers. The company, which is listed on London's AIM market, has raised €20m from backers to finance the move.

Smart says its new service will have no monthly line rental charge for the first 100,000 customers and a fixed monthly cost of €35 for 2MB.

Roll-out of the programme begins next week. Smart will deliver the service by unbundling the local loop between local telephone exchanges and homes and says its progress will depend on gaining access to Eircom exchanges.

They obviously have a good deal of funding for their rollout.

I rang to get some info and I have someone calling me back with technical info but I have been told that my line (which is dsl activated with digiweb) is not going to qualify in the near future ...

I'll post up any info i get from the callback.

spongebob

Sarsfield wrote:

Is there a catch to this?

None as long as you firmly believe that Smart Telecom will enable over 15 exchanges in County Galway alone including Maam Cross , 30 miles out . Here is the number of the Local Mart.......which passes

http://www.smarttelecom.ie/products/broadband/step2.php?number=91552254

Mr_Man

Seems to be passing every number I enter, including ones whcih Eircom have rejected. Since I know there is a splitter on some of the numbers entered it seems to be an exercise in gathering customer interest rather than any check based on technical data.

M

rabbitinlights

If you read the second line, it say's "The date of availability is to be confirmed" when i check my number (BB with eircom for 2 years) it said may/june.

Im just off the phone to them and they are getting a "broadband expert" to ring me back to confirm the more complicated questions i asked her (cap/Con ratio)

S.

parasite

so, is it llu ? what about that high court delay in llu pricing or something ...?

bofs

I live in Sligo town and currently have IOLBB, their line check says no, are they very localised? so is it just Dublin,Cork and Galway only?

"Broadband Check: Review Line Check Result
Unfortunately we have not yet allocated a date to when your exchange will be live. However, you can help us bring Smart Broadband to your community. The more interest we get from your area the sooner we will bring it on to our network, so spread the word!

wideband

what is llu?.....

WezzyB

I'm currently on IOL trial ending in two weeks, have ordered this, they say that it will be available to me in March/April.
I'm a bit anxious about not having BB for a month or so, or even more if eircom drag their heels on LLU.

A O Malley

Just talking to a sales rep, and she said there are no caps at all, the free line rental only comes into effect if you are in the first 100,000 customers when your area is enabled i.e. you sign up now get installed next august after 100,000 have been installed since your sign up then you don’t get free line rental.

causal

wideband wrote:

what is llu?.....

<guess> Local Loop Unbundling </guess>

Couch Potato

Why is the Upload speed so low ??????

NTL are 256 Upload on their 1.5meg product ...

Couch Potato

A O Malley wrote:

Just talking to a sales rep, and she said there are no caps at all, the free line rental only comes into effect if you are in the first 100,000 customers when your area is enabled i.e. you sign up now get installed next august after 100,000 have been installed since your sign up then you don’t get free line rental.

Is that 100,000 per exchange or in total ?

causal

Mr_Man wrote:

Seems to be passing every number I enter, including ones whcih Eircom have rejected. Since I know there is a splitter on some of the numbers entered it seems to be an exercise in gathering customer interest rather than any check based on technical data.

Yeah my number passed on Smart:
"Congratulations, Broadband is available to you! It will be available in July/August"

But it has always failed on Eircom.
My local exchange is enabled but I'm too far away.

The result from Smart was suspiciously fast too. Maybe it just checks the area code and first four digits to see if your local exchange is enabled.

causAl

SkepticOne

Local loop unbundling, yes.

I just tried 7 numbers from Eircom's joke "trigger level" programme including Ballyhaunis and Kinnegad. All of them came up with "Broadband is available - date to be confirmed".

Two numbers in Dublin came up with "Congratulations, Broadband is available to you! It will be available in July/August."

I think they are being slightly liberal with the word "available" maybe in an effort to get people to sign up to their phone service.

Emerson

Oh dear,
Now I'm getting:

"Unfortunatly, Smart Broadband is not yet available to you! The date of availability is yet to be confirmed. Would you like to register your interest anyway?"

An hour I go, I was excited at seeing "Congratulations" for the same 01-285 number..

That'll teach me for getting my hopes up!!

WezzyB

I've signed up, got an e-mail from them with a confirmation link that points at a password protected file
http://smarttelecom.iebt1.xmlw.ie/products/broadband/broadband_validate.php?validate=[refno]
where [refno] is my reference number. seems like they need to iron out a few glitches in their ordering system, from being a phone user with them i remember their billing wasn't fabulous, but i will forgive them if they do provide me with a 2 meg dsl service!

Emerson

A number, which is on the Dun Laoghaire exchange (280), however, passes for July/August. This exchange is enabled for EsatBT LLU also (biz bb).

Is Smart telecom's fibre network just along the train lines? eg: Bray, Dun Laoghaire, Arklow, Wicklow Town etc like EsatBT? Ruling out hope for the further away echanges...

Couch Potato

What is going on ...

My number now fails ....

Aquos76

My number also fails on their site but passes on the likes of eircon, digiweb and iol.

SkepticOne

The seven numbers I put in from the joke "trigger levels" now fail. The two Dublin numbers still work and still give "July/August".

One of these numbers is my own, so that is the main thing.

seamus

The fact that some people's do fail, indicates that they do have a specific rollout plan.

That's a start.

Couch Potato

seamus wrote:

The fact that some people's do fail, indicates that they do have a specific rollout plan.

That's a start.

Why would a number pass and then subsequently fail ...???

jor el

My number passes anyway, says it'll be available in May/June. That's the Dooradoyle exchange in Limerick. I'm with Esat right now, but my 12 months are up so I might go for this, unless Esat will match it.

Does anyone know if there'll be problems in changing from one DSL provider to Smart?

The Recliner

I currently don't have a land line (there is a conection in the apartment) as I don't want to be paying line rental on a land line and a mobile.

Does anyone know if I get a land line connected with Eircom could I switch whenever this becomes available, is there a 12 month contract with Eorcom that sort of thing.

Woden

my house phone fails on smart telecom there, but i type to you from my eircom broadband connection. any idea whats up with that? dublin 7 area btw.

tried people's numbers in blanchardstown which also failed and then one in drumcondra which said it would be available on march/april

Blaster99

I just tried a few different numbers: Bray fails. Ballinteer works. Sandyford fails. Windy Arbour works, Blackrock works, Tallaght works, Dublin 2 fails, Foxrock fails, Crumlin works, Cornelscourt fails, Blanchardstown (I think) fails.

So it's pretty patchy even in Dublin.

causal

This is weird:
I tried the two numbers from 2 different places in Dublin with Smart and Eircom:

A Blackrock number - passed for Eircom, failed for Smart.
A Knocklyon number - failed for Eircom, passed for Smart.

Huh, how can that be

causAl

causal

Blaster99 wrote:

I just tried a few different numbers: Bray fails. Ballinteer works. Sandyford fails. Windy Arbour works, Blackrock works, Tallaght works, Dublin 2 fails, Foxrock fails, Crumlin works, Cornelscourt fails, Blanchardstown (I think) fails.

So it's pretty patchy even in Dublin.

More like random, spontaneous and unpredictable :rolleyes:
What part of Blackrock?
The one I tried failed with Smart (passed with Eircom!) - but iirc the Blackrock number is in the Foxrock exchange.
The location is just past Stradbrook on the the Deansgrange road.

causAl

SkepticOne

The Recliner wrote:

Does anyone know if I get a land line connected with Eircom could I switch whenever this becomes available, is there a 12 month contract with Eorcom that sort of thing.

Should be possible. LLU provides for the handing over of an Eircom line to the other company which then rents it from Eircom. Most LLU services will use a line already in place although it is possible for the other company to order a line specially for LLU.

WezzyB

You can switch over as soon as you get your eircom account number, I took me about 2 weeks to get my account number when I signed up last year.

Getting a landline is free at the moment from eircom, if there is a line already into the house, I think this offer ends soon.

SkepticOne

causal wrote:

This is weird:
I tried the two numbers from 2 different places in Dublin with Smart and Eircom:

A Blackrock number - passed for Eircom, failed for Smart.
A Knocklyon number - failed for Eircom, passed for Smart.

Huh, how can that be

causAl

My guess is that the Blackrock number is not planned for upgrade with Smart (they are not putting their equipment in that exchange).

The Knocklyon number fails Eircom due to distance, line quality or whatever but passes for Smart because Smart only tells you that the exchange is on their plan. It is not (I'm guessing) a real line test result, but a reading from a database of planned upgrades.

Blaster99

I think you may find that Smart will install their product wherever they can instead of relying on bogus line test results.

I tried two numbers in Blackrock. One near the village, another one along Newtown Park Ave or whatever it's called. Both work in the sense that it said "July/August".

LoBo

Interesting

Well UTV BB offer is out of contract in april/may. This gives enough time for others to react w/ better pricing / download speeds, or at the very least for smart to prove they aren't vapourware.

Looking forward to it

Hornet

Somebody asked "What's the catch?". Well, the catch is that potentially or probably after 100 000 connected users, you will pay EUR 35 PLUS line rental. When you order you have no idea if you will be among the 100k or not. I haven't read any Terms & COnditions, but I guess you sign over your phone traffic immediately when you order and I doubt that there is a cancellation right in case you won't be among the first 100k!

Why is Smart running this program?

They need to raise money urgently, but it seems they won't get anymore free money, instead the money available is debt-financed. However, they are very much in the red and it will probably take a long long time (if ever) before they reach break-even. So it seems the (private) lenders are careful and won't just plough in more money to disappear for good. The SUnday Business Post printed an article on the 23/01/05 that explained

"Smart Telecom is raising about EUR 20 million from private investors to fund the roll-out of its broadband offering [...].
It is understood that Smart is setting up a special purpose vehicle to raise debt finance from wealthy investors. The company is offering an interest rate of between 8-10% on the funds they lend to the vehicle.
[...]
Smart will have the right to draw down the funds in proportion to the number of broadband customers it signs up. For example, if it signs up a broadband customer generating revenue fo EUR 1000 per annum, it will be able to draw down EUR 500 from the fund."

So let's do the numbers: Per user they charge EUR 35 per month, this results in EUR 420 per year per user. Multiply it by 100,000 and you arrive at 42mio. If they really get approx. 50% of the expected revenue in loaned money, these 100,000 users will enable Smart to get the 20mio they need.

To get the money they don't need to CONNECT anyone, it seems! They only need to SIGN UP customers. So HOW and WHEN the exchanges will be enabled is possibly a separate story.

--Hornet

Moriarty

I've been wondering about the free line rental thang and I have a theory.

Smart are probably using shared line unbundling for this. This will cost them €0.39/month/customer for access to the data segment of each line after comreg recently reduced the pricing for line share. Now.. for the line rental piece, they may be able to deactivate the voice segment of the line (there by no line rental owed to eircom) and port all voice traffic over a VOIP solution (since they'll have their own equipment in the exchanges). The end result being customers get free line rental and cheap broadband, while smart have very low overheads payable to eircom per customer.

I dunno, it's a possibility in any case.

spongebob

Hornet wrote:

Somebody asked "What's the catch?".

No exchanges are live for one.

To get the money they don't need to CONNECT anyone, it seems! They only need to SIGN UP customers. So HOW and WHEN the exchanges will be enabled is possibly a separate story.

Quite so Hornet . The Smart Telecom BB 'Line Check' turns into a CPS honeypot as you can below See

http://www.smarttelecom.ie/products/broadband/step3.htm

"Broadband Check and Sign-up: Step 3"

...is full of T&C's including !

2.1. This Agreement shall commence on the date the Services and Equipment are provided by Smart Telecom to the Customer (the "Commencement Date") and shall be for the Initial Minimum Period.
2.2. Upon expiry of the Initial Minimum Period, the Services will continue to be provided by Smart Telecom on the terms of this Agreement unless terminated in accordance with the termination provisions set out at Clause 14.

6. CANCELLATIONS BEFORE COMMENCEMENT

6.1. Without prejudice to the termination clause 14 and the following Clause 6.2, at any time prior to the Commencement Date, the Customer is entitled to cancel the Order for any reason whatsoever on prior written notice to Smart Telecom, without charge.

14. TERMINATION FOLLOWING COMMENCEMENT

14.1. Subject to the Consumer's right of cancellation under Clause 6.2, and subject to the following clauses 14.2 and 14.3, this Agreement is terminable by either party giving the other not less than 30 working days written notice.

And Finally

Please note, this is a conditional contract, which will only come into effect once your exchange is available to Smart Telecom, and your line test is successful.

When you accept this You have entered into a CPS contract with Smart Telecom. All Smart need to do it get their kit in your exchange and you are theirs for CPS unless you cancel beforehand .

Moriarty

They can have my first born if they get into my exchange

kaizersoze

I just put in my area code without my number & got this:

Broadband Check: Review Line Check Result
Unfortunately we have not yet allocated a date to when your exchange will be live. However, you can help us bring Smart Broadband to your community. The more interest we get from your area the sooner we will bring it on to our network, so spread the word!

What a pity! Still, I want to save money on my voice calls right away, so please contact me about becoming a Smart customer anyway.
I’m just interested in Smart Broadband. Please contact me once you support my exchange.
No thanks, I don’t want to proceed at this time.

Obviosly not a line check :rolleyes:

Moriarty

I suspect the line checks will only be run once equipment is physically in the exchange - they won't want to rely on eircoms notoriously poor test as it disqualifys a lot of lines that are actually completely capable of getting broadband. Until then, any check they have on their site will be purely to check if you're on an exchange they plan to use.

causal

[QUOTE=
http://www.smarttelecom.ie/products/broadband/step3.htm

.1. This Agreement shall commence on the date the Services and Equipment are provided by Smart Telecom to the Customer (the "Commencement Date") and shall be for the Initial Minimum Period.

6. CANCELLATIONS BEFORE COMMENCEMENT

6.1. Without prejudice to the termination clause 14 and the following Clause 6.2, at any time prior to the Commencement Date, the Customer is entitled to cancel the Order for any reason whatsoever on prior written notice to Smart Telecom, without charge.
[/QUOTE]

"Equipment", means the DSL modem and cable and/or any other service provider equipment, comprising of inter alia software and hardware provided as part of the Smart Broadband Service;

My reading of that (I ain't a lawyer) is that you can cancel for any reason at any time prior to them providing the 'Services and Equipment'.

It's self install (or you can pay for them to install):
So if you decide not to go ahead you could leave it as late as the guy coming to your door to give you the modem - and then just reject it.
That way the trigger for the "Agreement" is never fired.

causAl

spongebob

CPS does not require equipment !

OfflerCrocGod

Moriarty wrote:

They can have my first born if they get into my exchange

Bloody Right I don't care about changing my CPS.

snappieT

Looks like i'll be in before anyone else here:

Congratulations, Broadband is available to you! It will be available in March/April.

LLU inside two months is a bit unrealistic for a North Dublin suburb