Jeet Kune DO

pma-ire

I know I'm not a mod. But i don't want to start another tangent in the same thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2278590&postcount=48

If you want to keep this discussion going please post here

Colm_OReilly

I don't know how that thread got ressureted by I reckon the JKD one should begin anew here.

Colm

pma-ire

Just incase anyone is wondering who DI is and what he is doing these days.

http://inosanto.com/index.php?osCsid=ac76dbaa018de4b78fc096fe3d2cc7f9

Check out the pics section...

Im2Lazy

Just wondering if anyone does Jeet Kune Do in Dublin ?

If so where ?

Millionaire

is n't the Straight Blast lads JKD related??

There is some guy in belfast who does it too I think. I remeber reading a few years back. I think they do an older from of JKD??? open to correction on that I am

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

is n't the Straight Blast lads JKD related??

There is some guy in belfast who does it too I think. I remeber reading a few years back. I think they do an older from of JKD??? open to correction on that I am

As I said it's a concept. So anyone can do JKD really.

I'd like to hear where the SBG guys come from with JKD as I have seen it mentioned on the site?

Are they just using the concept or is there a claim to some line...

Millionaire

its Matt Thornton isn't who has the JKD linage????? re SBG

for example there is some guy I saw his web site in deep south USA Sifu Lamar ir something and the JKD he teaches is the JKD done in circa 67 in Chinatown Bruce Lee school in LA and very Wing chun based. he argues that the stuff Bruce himself taught in 67 ish is the real Jeet Kune Do according to his site. like the stuff u see in the Bruce Lee fighting method books. I guess it has really changeed since then with various factions etc.

Millionaire

Here PMA http://www.hardcorejkd.com/sifu_davis.php

here is the guys site www.hardcorejkd.com

I did not read it, have a look yourself

also see www.fighting.net

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

its Matt Thornton isn't who has the JKD linage????? re SBG

for example there is some guy I saw his web site in deep south USA Sifu Lamar ir something and the JKD he teaches is the JKD done in circa 67 in Chinatown Bruce Lee school in LA and very Wing chun based. he argues that the stuff Bruce himself taught in 67 ish is the real Jeet Kune Do according to his site. like the stuff u see in the Bruce Lee fighting method books. I guess it has really changeed since then with various factions etc.

That would be seen as a snap shot of Jun Fan JKD then. Lee closed all his schools when he saw what he was doing was turning into what he had been trying to move away from.

I'll try to look at those sites!! Pretending to work now!!

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

also see www.fighting.net

Ah yes I see it now !!

Colm_OReilly

SBG uses the term "Functional JKD" to describe what we do, as JKD was originally intended to be what works but since then has broken into different factions. It is generally accepted (stateside more than in Ireland) that Functional JKD describes dynamic, "Alive" training, while MMA is the sports-side of things.

Hope this helps,
Colm

pma-ire

Colm_OReilly wrote:

SBG uses the term "Functional JKD" to describe what we do, as JKD was originally intended to be what works but since then has broken into different factions. It is generally accepted (stateside more than in Ireland) that Functional JKD describes dynamic, "Alive" training, while MMA is the sports-side of things.

Hope this helps,
Colm

Thanks for that Colm

0littledragon0

i train and teach jeet kune do to few guys in the north looking for pad man and in return will show you the way i was taught by Sifu taki kamura, jesse glover, tim tackett to mention a few just need someone to hold pads,stayin in plamerstown if anyone,s near or can anyone give me info on nearby classes.you won't be dissappointed

Martin25

Hi Little Dragon
A warm welcome and perhaps you would introduce yourself to the forum.
I see that you have trained with Sigung Taky and I am always delighted to have contact with my JKD brothers.
all the best
Martin

0littledragon0

hi my name littledragon and have trained in wing chun for a few years and progressive combat club for two but thats past me i've studied jeet kune do over the past 7 half years and love it to bits,workin in the south padman required,teach a few lad's at weekend when i'm home and thee doing lovely hard as stone no rules so anything pretty much goes.have been to sifu Ted Wong Jesse Glover Tim Tackett etc

Killme00

0littledragon0 = Martin25

Martin25

Martin 25 is Martin ONeill and my website is www.jkdireland.com

I honestly don't know the other guy, maybe you can ask him.

Dragan

Killme00 wrote: »

0littledragon0 = Martin25

These type of thoughts or normally best said to a Mod via PM.

No connection that i can see from here.

Martin25

As I said, there is no connection.

Killme00

[x] apologies

Dragan

Killme00 wrote: »

[ ] I give a rats ass
[x] i dont give a rats ass

Okay then, i will say it in a bit more plain English for you.

If you, for any reason, feel that one poster may in fact have a duel account then contact a Mod.

To do so again publically will get you banned.

Killme00

edit.

apologies i was being a tool

atkalel

hey dude,
Im in dublin can you teach JKD classes to interested people?

0littledragon0

i'd train with those who are really into it i mean if you've been to bruce's students seminar's you'd know what i mean from the horses mouth,streetfighting's no game but what i've see gives you the upper hand and its fair to say its explosively fast and hard hitting one punch one knockout:eek:

Martin25

Sparring partners and new students are always welcome at our gym where you are sure of a friendly greeting in the true spirit of JKD.

Martin25

Our main classes are on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 6.30 to 9.00pm.
Saturdays are private classes and we get together informally at other times during the week.

I have been training in Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do for 21 years and am Ireland's first and only Full Instructor at this time. I am very proud of the group of Associate and Apprentice Instructors that I have trained for the past few years as they represent the future of JKD in Ireland. Indeed two of them gave a demo and seminar of JKD at CENI in London this year.
For more information go to www.jkdireland.com
all the best
Martin

0littledragon0

hi martin was at two of your seminars first with tim tackett which i enjoyed but your students dont really seem to hit pads that hard and are beatable with footwork alone you were one of them lol,the second was with andy kimura which tacky looked on and was more along the line of kickboxing and ground work which is not for me plus i work in dublin monday to friday.Thanks for the offer through and i'm not attcking you it's just i've been trained in a dirrerent way in jeet kune do and its more direct and deadly but who am i to judge,safe training

Martin25

Dear "someone"

Thank you for your time, business and acknowledgement of my expertise by choosing to pay to attend seminars organised by me.

You question the abilities of my students, no doubt you have the capabilities to match their prowess? Why not help to educate them and impart your learning, which could be judged valuable; if you were to sacrifice your time and demonstrate the superior technique and prowess you purport to have? We are always open and willing to learn. I await a convenient date and time when you can accomodate us; mindful that truely talented people will not shirk from putting words into action and do not need "protection" by hiding behind a pseudish identity.

Sincerely

Martin O Neill

Martin25

The seminar being critiqued, which I organised in Ireland a few years ago was taught by Taky Kimura. Taky led the seminar and Andy his son demonstrated many of the techniques. Taky personally went to each participant and worked with them hands on,perhaps you don't remember this but we do.
To say it was a "kickboxing" seminar is to completely miss the point! It was a Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do seminar.
Taky taught the seminar and I personally witnessed him giving instructions on every aspect of what was being taught.
Later in the day, I asked Andy Kimura to share some of the grappling that Bruce demonstrated in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and also the latest techniques he had learned from the renowned shoot wrestler and JKD Instructor Erik Paulson. This was for about the last 30 minutes of the seminar.

If you were to read the Tao of Jeet Kune Do you would see that Bruce was into learning about the pros and cons of grappling arts. This is because he was into the reality of combat and wanted to find out how to fight a grappler if he had to face one in the street.
Safe training means that we can all go to work the next day!

Martin25

I asked my students if they remembered anyone who had great technique and footwork at Tim's seminar. The one they pointed out was Paul my student who assisted Tim Tackett and was more than able to do everthing asked of him.
They could not remember anyone fitting the description of a superior and deadly martial artist,maybe that was because someone was too fast for the naked eye and moved in a blur!

0littledragon0

hi martin,don't get me wrong i'm sorry if it sounds as if i'm attacking you or your way i'm its just bruce taught different student's different things and jeet kune do transformed quickly from teaching taky wing chun later gung fu to him teaching Ted Wong and others in oakland,Jeet Kune Do has became so complex people saying this is the way or that is the way and it tends to led to falling out over which way is best thats why bruce did'nt want to name it,it only causes unwanted hassle so i'm sorry for upsetting to or anyone on this form.you mentioned paul is this the same one that tim punched on the nose and ran to the toilet for tissue and came back with invisable blood on it as robert pointed out lol..good health and safe training(head gear maybe required)

Martin25

I refer you to my posts above. If you would care to come to visit us and share your superior technique and perhaps teach us your "real" JKD we will pay your expenses to be enlightened.

We are really looking forward to this as we have been taught by Lamar Davis, one of the best fighters in the clan and and lately by Taky Kimura for many years. Given that they are rated by many as two of the "top" people in the JKD world; we are looking forward to having a lesson by someone who pertains to be "superior".

With reference to Tim Tackett, he accidently struck my student while demonstrating a compound trapping sequence double pak sao. He acknowledged this to me and said something to the effect "whats JKD without a little blood". I don't think that Tim meant to hit him, he just did.

By the way we don't require you to apologise before or after you insult us.

P. Crossey

Hello Little Dragon,
it's always good to discover someone with a passion for Jeet Kune Do and from the sound of it you like to train hard which is obviously in keeping with the spirit of how Bruce Lee would train and conduct classes, so nice to meet you!

I can however understand why Martin would feel a little insulted by some of your words whether you intend them to be or not. You say,
"don't get me wrong i'm sorry if it sounds as if i'm attacking you or your way"
but you also said,
"(your students) are beatable with footwork alone you were one of them lol"
Which you have to admit comes across as derogatory regardless of it being a true statement or not. Speaking of it's truthfullness though, I would like to ask how you where able to pick that up from what you briefly saw of Martin's students? You also mention "your students dont really seem to hit pads that hard" and from the Tim Tackett seminar I don't recall there being a lot of pad work, so again can I ask what lead you to this conclusion?

You say,
"i've been trained in a dirrerent way in jeet kune do and its more direct and deadly"
yet originally stated "i was taught by Sifu taki kamura, jesse glover, tim tackett to mention a few"
I have also trained with those above, albeit briefly, and while I found each seminar valuable I must admit I have not discovered a distinctly different way that was more direct and deadly, or a means to develop footwork to the point of being able to beat an opponent (be they highly trained or not) with footwork alone!
Can you elaborate on how your JKD has reached such a level?

As you say talking about 'this way' or 'that way' leads to falling out and people's ego's tend to get in the way of sharing knowledge. With that in mind I would genuinely like to train with you in good spirits and see how your approach differs, i'm always willing to learn especially from a fellow JKD practitioner. Even if that is not possible then I would still like you to further talk about your training as your approach to JKD might be different than mine.

As a final point, yes it was me that Sifu Tackett gave the bloody nose to! It was obviously an embarressing but equally humorous incident. We got our wires crossed with how he wanted me to respond during the demonstration, I thought he wanted a single pak sao instead of double... or something like that, it's all a bit of a watery-eyed blur! But joking aside I enjoyed the seminar and was able to learn a lot from Sifu Tackett especially since I was priviledged (or not!) to be used for demonstrations. I have spoken to him since, in fact I was talking to him briefly in April this year and as always he was friendly and insightful.

All the best,

Paul

Martin25

I was working with Paul last night on the pads and shouting at him to hit harder and harder. He really let loose and punched me in the face!
Oh how we laughed!

0littledragon0

so who's at fault then the puncher or padman? i'm only repeating what bruce said that footwork can beat any punch or kick. read his books the answers are there. what did you think of ted and jesse then paul , did you see anything which might cut out any unwanted motion or energy,i understand trapping and its only for those who are compatible and lets it work but won't work angainst more than one opponent or sparring and bruce drifted away from it,as for a double pac if he moves punch him it disolves and becomes usless

P. Crossey

Little Dragon,
I find it discouraging that you did not directly answer any of my questions. I asked (to paraphrase) what makes you think we don't hit hard? Can you share with us an insight as to how your JKD has reached the level it is at today? I was hoping you would elaborate with your own words as if I wanted Bruce Lee's, as you rightly say, I could go and read some of the books containing his notes.

You rightly point out Bruce said it was possible to beat any punch or kick with footwork (see ' Bruce Lee's commentaries on the martial way', Edited by John Little, p. 201) but I confess I haven't read anywhere that he said an opponent is entirely beatable with footwork alone, can you point me to it? If not may I again ask what brought you to the conclusion that "your students dont really seem to hit pads that hard and are beatable with footwork alone"? I actually do think it is possible to beat an opponent with footwork alone, but unless you're at a extremely high level you're chances of doing so are marginal.

As for trapping, we maybe have different views of the subject. You say,
"i understand trapping and its only for those who are compatible and lets it work but won't work angainst more than one opponent or sparring", but we have been talking about how footwork alone can possibly defeat an opponent. My understanding of trapping is that which makes movement or escape difficult. Therefore contact does not need to be made to 'trap' someone. You can trap with footwork. You can trap with feints. A skilled wordsmith can trap someone in conversation! Etc. etc. Trapping to me is not just hand or limb traps, however they do embody the essence of trapping. What are your views on this?

Regarding "as for a double pac if he moves punch him it disolves and becomes usless ", as uncomfortable as it was getting punched by Tim Tackett during a seminar, can you imagine the aftermath if I during the demonstration I had tried to punch him!

All the best,

Paul

0littledragon0

i never said i or anyone else can't me beat by footwork alone,it's a means of transportation getting you to where you need to be at the right time,i just think it's one of the most important things along with the front hand lead and can be done anywhere even for a few munites.Don't get wrong about hitting hard it was silly of me to judge as i wasn't holding any pad's for your fellow partners but would liked to have and vice versa.Trapping is something that mush be taught along with chi sau to get the understanding of it once you have experienced it do with it what you must i'd rather punch and kick,JKD is the art of stripping away the usless and using the useful not anding but taking away,to me it's not a style or art it a way of life or livesaving tools which need to be sharped everyday

jasper71

Little Dragon, do you train with Grandmaster Dillon, aka Wally Dillon?

0littledragon0

hi jasper,cant say i've heard of wally dillon what style is he and where does he reside?,have heard of gary dill's though

jasper71

http://www.icbacombat.com/
I saw this website and saw a 'Little Dragon' on it, thought it might have been you.
Wally Dillon used to teach Jeet Kune Do years ago, although he seems to have rebranded now.

Killme00

jasper71 wrote: »

http://www.icbacombat.com/
I saw this website and saw a 'Little Dragon' on it, thought it might have been you.
Wally Dillon used to teach Jeet Kune Do years ago, although he seems to have rebranded now.

He never taught JKD. It was Ching Wu Gar (Kung Fu) and is now called Li Ching Wu.
Little Dragon is a nickname used by one of his fighters from Manchester from the old days, i think it refers to Harry Daly who was a full contact and Muay Thai fighter back in the day.

ROC1977

Hi all first time reading this forum. And find it both interesting and sometimes funny too. All these posts about how this fella is one of the best JKD fighters out there and how the other fella can beat him, and how this fellas a grand master and that fella was trained by this fella. lol etc etc
I've never studied JKD but when people make statement on how a martial artist is better than another, I wonder how this can be proved. I've had a few streetfights in my life, but never used wing chun during a fight. Why? simple really... Martial arts are deadly, only to be used as a last resort.
What I'm trying to say(and probably not too well) is if say a fella from one school was to fight another JKD fighter from another school to prove who is best then one will end up dead or seriously injured. Prob loss an eye or have crushed windpipe etc etc.
When did JKD become a martial art? I always thought its a fighting concept where you use what ever fighting style that works for you. I know there are plenty of schools all over the world that teach so called JKD. But in reality all they do is teach you bits and pieces of a mixture of martial arts. And call it JKD, normally in USA. Alot like MMA really (except MMA doesn't allow deadly strikes). This is not a reflection on any of your schools here lads, as I've never been to any. So I can't judge.
Bruce lee, Bruce lee... who really cares what Bruce lee said. He was an actor who training in Wing chun for a few years in hong Kong and went to the States. It pisses me off when people go on about Bruce less was the greatest martial artist ever. Complete rubbish. Only thing Bruce lee should be credited for is bringing Kung fu to the west. JKD was a money spinner for him, a martial arts McDonalds.
Don't get me wrong I like Bruce lee, but he's over hyped as a fighter. If he was still alive, would he be the house hold name he is now.
I see a post talking about a Grandmaster Dillon. So this guy has been training in the one kung fu style for over 25 years ya. Or is he a self appointed sifu like so many these days.

I trained for seven years with Victor Kan in Soho London. He's tenth gen Wing Chun to Yip man. He's a l grand master that teaches the traditional Wing chun training methods. He grew up with Bruce lee and the rest of Yip Mans top students. He always said Bruce was a good friend, but never as good as him as a fighter. Now I'd take that with a pinch of salt if I didn't know the man.
One of my training friends back in the day has a few books on Wing chun "Guy Edwards". My point of view was molded by him, he'd burn the ear off me on kung fu.


And don't forget martial arts are a lot more than just fighting.

But to be honest I'm not too up to date on kung fu. Haven't practiced Wing Chun in about 8 years with anyone else. (just the old center punch on my wall bag). And the reason I don't train. Most of the schools near me don't train in Wing chun, and all the others are just money spinning bull.
And I can't afford to travel to London 4 times a week to train like the old days.

not knocking anyone...just my point of few.

cowzerp

ROC1977 wrote: »

I've had a few streetfights in my life, but never used wing chun during a fight. Why? simple really... Martial arts are deadly, only to be used as a last resort.
What I'm trying to say(and probably not too well) is if say a fella from one school was to fight another JKD fighter from another school to prove who is best then one will end up dead or seriously injured. Prob loss an eye or have crushed windpipe etc etc.And don't forget martial arts are a lot more than just fighting..

I will laugh now.
i hope your registered with the guards as a lethal weapon.

ROC1977 wrote: »

But to be honest I'm not too up to date on kung fu. Haven't practiced Wing Chun in about 8 years with anyone else. (just the old center punch on my wall bag). And the reason I don't train. Most of the schools near me don't train in Wing chun, and all the others are just money spinning bull.
And I can't afford to travel to London 4 times a week to train like the old days.

There is a wing chun club in Lusk, check them out, im sure if you google lusk wing chun you'll find there site.

Furious-Dave

ROC1977 wrote: »

I've had a few streetfights in my life, but never used wing chun during a fight. Why? simple really... Martial arts are deadly, only to be used as a last resort.
What I'm trying to say(and probably not too well) is if say a fella from one school was to fight another JKD fighter from another school to prove who is best then one will end up dead or seriously injured. Prob loss an eye or have crushed windpipe etc etc.

Sorry Paul I fail to see the humour in this that you do. If 2 people are to fight to prove who is the better at their martial art then they should use their art to its fullest. JKD has eye gouges and throat strikes. So, if it is used to its fullest then it is potentially deadly. And in that respect someone who can fight and does JKD should only use it to its fullest as a very last resort.

cowzerp

Furious-Dave wrote: »

Sorry Paul I fail to see the humour in this that you do. If 2 people are to fight to prove who is the better at their martial art then they should use their art to its fullest. JKD has eye gouges and throat strikes. So, if it is used to its fullest then it is potentially deadly. And in that respect someone who can fight and does JKD should only use it to its fullest as a very last resort.

Dave do you think a boxer could not strike to the throat? i bet they could way better than a kung fu type as they train to hit where ever they want and hard, same applies for eye gouging etc..the only difference is intention, poke an mma fighter in the eye and he will most likely take you down and poke both your eyes out and then pound you into the ground.

i got poked in the eye twice last week in training, it hurt like hell but did not stop me, and that was training, if my body was on the line in a real fight it would be even less effective, adrenalin would see to that.

Furious-Dave

cowzerp wrote: »

Dave do you think a boxer could not strike to the throat? i bet they could way better than a kung fu type as they train to hit where ever they want and hard, same applies for eye gouging etc..the only difference is intention, poke an mma fighter in the eye and he will most likely take you down and poke both your eyes out and then pound you into the ground.

i got poked in the eye twice last week in training, it hurt like hell but did not stop me, and that was training, if my body was on the line in a real fight it would be even less effective, adrenalin would see to that.

I've not doubt that a Boxer could strike the throat very effectively as theres little difference between punching someone in the jaw and in the throat. The technique is the same. Maybe just use a half-fist instead of a full fist. Let me also explain that when I say eye gouge I'm not talking about just poking a finger in the eye. I'm talking about sticking a thumb in a far as it will go and squeezing the eye, whilst following up with more strikes. Furthermore, when someone from a reality based SD system is working combos on a bag, say a BOB for example, very often they will include eye gouges and throat strikes in the combos. I'm not saying that they can do it better than a Boxer or MMA fighter, just that they actively include strikes that would be illegal in sports systems in their regular training. Of course that training has to be realistic, but when these guys have to fight they would be more likely to use those "illegal" strikes than someone who doesn't actively include them.
For the record I have come to the opinion that styles like Kenpo, for example, should have an MMA base on top of which the self defense stuff is built, while maintaining the Kenpo principles.

Roper

ROC1977 wrote: »

Yip Man

There's nothing worse than a yip man....



I'll get me coat.

0littledragon0

hi dave have to agree with you that finger jabs and punchs to throat are as good as you can get especially with more than one opponent,i mean how many one to one fights do you get on your average fri sat nite not many and grappleing is out the window.i fought for two years in mma even the instructor there said in a streetfight always stay on your feet,you can't run when your lying on the ground lol

Deisenaut

Hi - Does anyone know much about the JKD classes that have started up in Waterford?

Mick Coup

ROC1977 wrote: »

I've had a few streetfights in my life, but never used wing chun during a fight. Why? simple really... Martial arts are deadly, only to be used as a last resort.

Now that's amusing.....!

Mick

0littledragon0

hi mick,thought thats why we learned marital arts in the first to be deadly or stop fights dead,what you think?