M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

AugustusMinimus

The new junction would be a considerable improvement. Very frustrating if it goes by the wayside. Crazy even.

The junction for Mount Oval could be left open but would require a larger filter lane.

I could see this scheme being changed for the worse and people complaining even more afterwards. The M7 / M20 junction comes to mind.

kub

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The new junction would be a considerable improvement. Very frustrating if it goes by the wayside. Crazy even.

The junction for Mount Oval could be left open but would require a larger filter lane.

I could see this scheme being changed for the worse and people complaining even more afterwards. The M7 / M20 junction comes to mind.

I have a hunch you might be correct;

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/public-chance-see-revised-m28-plans/1959736/

spacetweek

kub wrote: »

I have a hunch you might be correct;

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/public-chance-see-revised-m28-plans/1959736/

Having checked the Mount Oval change on a map, they definitely should not be changing it just for that.

Ludo

spacetweek wrote: »

Having checked the Mount Oval change on a map, they definitely should not be changing it just for that.

Are you saying they should still close the Mount Oval off-ramp? Checking it on a map doesn't really tell the full story though does it.

AugustusMinimus

I have no issue with leaving the Mount Oval slip open.

What would be an absolute disaster would be seeing the Carr's Hill interchange not being upgraded as planned.

It would be much, much more beneficial to everyone than keeping the Maryborough slip open.

I have a fear that I'll informed residents will get their way.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I have no issue with leaving the Mount Oval slip open.

What would be an absolute disaster would be seeing the Carr's Hill interchange not being upgraded as planned.

It would be much, much more beneficial to everyone than keeping the Maryborough slip open.

I have a fear that I'll informed residents will get their way.

Is this the on or off ramp for Mount Oval or both they are planning to close?

Realistically as this is a motorway scheme both should be closed and access made via the Carrs Hill interchange

kub

marno21 wrote: »

Is this the on or off ramp for Mount Oval or both they are planning to close?

Realistically as this is a motorway scheme both should be closed and access made via the Carrs Hill interchange

They were planning on closing both, i can see the logic as neither are currently suitable for coming on or off a motorway.

This is pure parish pump politics in action here and no prizes for guessing which political party is being so vocal about it. The motorway to Ringaskiddy from the N40 is paramount and i believe the locals should be told the interchange at Carrs Hill is happening and that is all about it.

AugustusMinimus

Thinking about it, there's an easy solution for mount oval.

Close the slip in. However, create a new road, running alongside the motorway from where the slip was to the new Carr's Hill interchange.

This would give Mount Oval full access to the M28 in all directions. It would also give Mount Oval a second entrance/exit and would give it direct access to the old Carrigaline road. It would just do it through Carr's Hill interchange.

Slip on from Marborough Hill will have to close. Can't have 2 slip roads feeding onto the M28 in such little space.

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

Is this the on or off ramp for Mount Oval or both they are planning to close?

Realistically as this is a motorway scheme both should be closed and access made via the Carrs Hill interchange

The rumour is that motorway restrictions will only start from Carr's Hill onwards.

The residents here are incredibly short minded. The new interchange will provide the old N28 and Maryborough Hill with full access to the M28. In addition, as I've shown in drawings, it could revolutionise access to Grange and Donnybrook from the SRR of the bridge over the Ballybrack stream goes ahead.

Schadenfreudia

The residents should be ignored.

I though facilitating driving private cars into town was like, sooo past tense?

Victor

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

The residents should be ignored.

I though facilitating driving private cars into town was like, sooo past tense?

People who are well off don't do past tense.

Ludo

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I have no issue with leaving the Mount Oval slip open.

What would be an absolute disaster would be seeing the Carr's Hill interchange not being upgraded as planned.

It would be much, much more beneficial to everyone than keeping the Maryborough slip open.

I have a fear that I'll informed residents will get their way.

I honestly don't know enough about the carrs Hill interchange. I use the rochestown/passage exit or the mount oval one every day though. Which one I use depends on the traffic when I hit the area. A lot of people do this. Closing the mount oval one would add a lot of traffic onto an already busy junction when there is a already a ready made alternative. Seems pointless to close it just so the road can be 120kmph. Leave it as DC speed limit til after it. We are only talking about 300 metres here missing out on the 120 limit. Seems pointless and it certainly it not imperative that tose 300 metres be made motorway.

Ludo

marno21 wrote: »

There are genuinely people that think they are entitled to a slip road from a motorway to their housing estate

Ha. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. But sure a funny image will get you a few thanks anyway. Job done.

AugustusMinimus

Ludo wrote: »

I honestly don't know enough about the carrs Hill interchange. I use the rochestown/passage exit or the mount oval one every day though. Which one I use depends on the traffic when I hit the area. A lot of people do this. Closing the mount oval one would add a lot of traffic onto an already busy junction when there is a already a ready made alternative. Seems pointless to close it just so the road can be 120kmph. Leave it as DC speed limit til after it. We are only talking about 300 metres here missing out on the 120 limit. Seems pointless and it certainly it not imperative that tose 300 metres be made motorway.

Yes. But you are ignoring the fact that there will be a new junction about 500m up the road which will allow you to access both the old Carrigaline Road and Maryborough Hill. It will vastly improved accessibility.

spacetweek

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The rumour is that motorway restrictions will only start from Carr's Hill onwards.

Onwards - into cork or into RS?

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

Onwards - into cork or into RS?

Towards Ringaskiddy. As in the existing online N28 that will be widened and dualled will remain all-purpose, with the slips. The offline DC to Ringaskiddy will be under motorway restrictions

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Thinking about it, there's an easy solution for mount oval.

Close the slip in. However, create a new road, running alongside the motorway from where the slip was to the new Carr's Hill interchange.

This would give Mount Oval full access to the M28 in all directions. It would also give Mount Oval a second entrance/exit and would give it direct access to the old Carrigaline road. It would just do it through Carr's Hill interchange.

Slip on from Marborough Hill will have to close. Can't have 2 slip roads feeding onto the M28 in such little space.

This seems like an answer to me.
Slip on from Maryborough Hill could be sorted the exact same way, have a side-road parallel to the M28 from the various fiefdoms to the Carrs Hill full interchange.

Start with the Carrs Hill full interchange onto N28.
Create road from Maryborough Hill to Carrs Hill interchange, East of N28. (approx 600m two-way).
Roundabout needed on Maryborough Hill for the junction with the new road.
Divert all Maryborough Hill sliproad traffic to Carrs Hill interchange.
Close Maryborough Hill Slip Road.
New road from Mount Oval slip to Maryborough Hill (the new roundabout).
Close Mount Oval slip.
Do the M28 (Finally!)

Is that workable?

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

Towards Ringaskiddy. As in the existing online N28 that will be widened and dualled will remain all-purpose, with the slips. The offline DC to Ringaskiddy will be under motorway restrictions

Any ideas on bicycles? I see a good few bikes using Carrs Hill at present.

AugustusMinimus

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

This seems like an answer to me.
Slip on from Maryborough Hill could be sorted the exact same way, have a side-road parallel to the M28 from the various fiefdoms to the Carrs Hill full interchange.

Start with the Carrs Hill full interchange onto N28.
Create road from Maryborough Hill to Carrs Hill interchange, East of N28. (approx 600m two-way).
Roundabout needed on Maryborough Hill for the junction with the new road.
Divert all Maryborough Hill sliproad traffic to Carrs Hill interchange.
Close Maryborough Hill Slip Road.
New road from Mount Oval slip to Maryborough Hill (the new roundabout).
Close Mount Oval slip.
Do the M28 (Finally!)

Is that workable?

No real need to do a new road to compensate for the removal of the Maryborough slip road.

If people on Maryborough Hill want to access the M28, they can drive up Maryborough Hill a bit and access the M28 via the Carr's Hill junction which will be connected to Maryborough Hill via Maryborough Ridge.

Residents are complaining non stop about this and in reality, not much is changing.

marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Any ideas on bicycles? I see a good few bikes using Carrs Hill at present.

To get from Douglas to Carrigaline? They can use the old N28, which I presume will revert to being the R609.

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

Towards Ringaskiddy. As in the existing online N28 that will be widened and dualled will remain all-purpose, with the slips. The offline DC to Ringaskiddy will be under motorway restrictions

Doesn't make sense. The part that connects to the N40 should be the motorway. It'll be the busier part surely?

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

Doesn't make sense. The part that connects to the N40 should be the motorway. It'll be the busier part surely?

The part from Carrs Hill to the N40, where the old Na28 (R609) was replaced by an offline section in the 1990s, has 2 'junctions', the Mount Oval pair of slip roads, and the half junction at Rochestown, where Douglas traffic leaving the N40W and joining the N40E access the N28. As the N40 is all purpose, and there is no other access point to the N40E or from the N40W to Douglas it may remain all purpose just like the last 400m of the M8S are all purpose approaching the Dunkettle interchange.

Ludo

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Yes. But you are ignoring the fact that there will be a new junction about 500m up the road which will allow you to access both the old Carrigaline Road and Maryborough Hill. It will vastly improved accessibility.

Not ignoring it at all. I just don't see the point in closing an existing road just to up the speed limit from 100 to 120 a kilometre earlier. Seems a waste of money. Money already spent building the existing road I mean. Maybe I am missing some other reason though.

AugustusMinimus

Ludo wrote: »

Not ignoring it at all. I just don't see the point in closing an existing road just to up the speed limit from 100 to 120 a kilometre earlier. Seems a waste of money. Money already spent building the existing road I mean. Maybe I am missing some other reason though.

Your post stated that closing the Mount Oval exit will increase traffic at the Rochestown Road exit. How do you know this?

It's easily possible that the new Carr's Hill Interchange will actually reduce traffic at the Rochestown one.

If the Mount Oval one is closed, virtually all Mount Oval traffic will use it. In addition, any traffic for Maryborough Hill, Broaddale, Maryborough Ridge and Maryborough woods will use it instead of the Rochestown Road junction. That is a lot of traffic taken off that roundabout.

I'm not for closing the Mount Oval slip Road by the way. Keeping it will only improve the situation further.

kub

Ludo wrote: »

Not ignoring it at all. I just don't see the point in closing an existing road just to up the speed limit from 100 to 120 a kilometre earlier. Seems a waste of money. Money already spent building the existing road I mean. Maybe I am missing some other reason though.

AFAIK there are certain specifications that have to be conformed with before a road can be designated a motorway.

What i fail to understand is, how come the residents in Mount Oval are not welcoming the removal of this off slip road from the existing N28, surely it will cut down on motorists using their estate as a rat run in the evenings.

But i suppose the old Irish thing of ' once I am alright' is the main thing.

Schadenfreudia

marno21 wrote: »

Towards Ringaskiddy. As in the existing online N28 that will be widened and dualled will remain all-purpose, with the slips. The offline DC to Ringaskiddy will be under motorway restrictions

Following the Dublin model of high-spec but "all-purpose" roads leading into the M50....N7, N4, N3, N2.

moyners

kub wrote: »

AFAIK there are certain specifications that have to be conformed with before a road can be designated a motorway.

What i fail to understand is, how come the residents in Mount Oval are not welcoming the removal of this off slip road from the existing N28, surely it will cut down on motorists using their estate as a rat run in the evenings.

But i suppose the old Irish thing of ' once I am alright' is the main thing.

I lived in Mount Oval for 18 months (renting) and I don't every recall any motorists using it as a rat run (or at least so few that I never noticed them). It's a terrible rat run - huge speed bumps, and a meandering road that won't save you much time because you have to double back to get to any of the other estates nearby. The reason the planners gave for wanting to close it was because they reckoned people would start using it as a rat run rather than go half a kilometer up the road to the new interchange and down around Moneygourney. I'm not convinced myself either way.

Having said that, if I was still living in Mount Oval (which let's not forget has a population comparable to a small town!) the slip road closing would have added a large amount of time to the commute.

Ludo

It is human nature to not go beyond your destination and double back. Therefore people won't go to next exit and come back but instead take the rochestown exit and add to the problems there. The extra turning lane for clarkes hill will help but not enough.

No one has said what benefit starting the motorway before the existing exit gives. It is already a dual carriageway with a 100 limit with most people doing over that anyway. Trucks can't get to that speed there as also as it is a a steep hill. So I simply don't see the benefit when it costs nothing to leave the exit as is. Is there some benefit I am missing other than the potential extra 20 know for 500 metres?

moyners

Ludo wrote: »

It is human nature to not go beyond your destination and double back. Therefore people won't go to next exit and come back but instead take the rochestown exit and add to the problems there. The extra turning lane for clarkes hill will help but not enough.

No one has said what benefit starting the motorway before the existing exit gives. It is already a dual carriageway with a 100 limit with most people doing over that anyway. Trucks can't get to that speed there as also as it is a a steep hill. So I simply don't see the benefit when it costs nothing to leave the exit as is. Is there some benefit I am missing other than the potential extra 20 know for 500 metres?

I'd say they need the space to add a second lane on the other side if I'm not mistaken? Also the lanes are not separated by a barrier - they'll need space to put that in also. Space all the way up the hill is very constrained - either by existing houses or very steep inclines that will need filling in or leveling.

Carawaystick

marno21 wrote: »

To get from Douglas to Carrigaline? They can use the old N28, which I presume will revert to being the R609.

How would you cycle from Mahon Point to Cars hill if it was Motorway from the N40?