M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

Reputable Rog

danny004 wrote: »

"Based on" and I ask not out of confronting your post but out of Id like a decision soon because I am front line affected one way or the other in a no win situation hence I am neither for the steering group against the road or massively pro the development ,my good faith of the 12th though is based on the steering group post so id like to know if people are informed via other channels and know better

The case is For Mention which means exactly that. So in this scenario the registrar will call the case, the respective S.C.’s will then say that it is for mention and can they agree a date for hearing or further mention.
https://www.justanswer.com/ireland-law/59fhl-difference-for-mention-for-hear.html

danny004

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The case is For Mention which means exactly that. So in this scenario the registrar will call the case, the respective S.C.’s will then say that it is for mention and can they agree a date for hearing or further mention.
https://www.justanswer.com/ireland-law/59fhl-difference-for-mention-for-hear.html

ah doestnt matter now courrt have moved it again to Jan so its not even up for mention this year. From steering group below

Notification from the High Court to confirm that the M28 Steering Group -v- APB & CCC ( notice party) has once again...been deferred...!

A new date of the 23rd January 2020 has been set down for decision. The fact that this whole process was fast tracked through the courts in order to expedite the strategic importance or otherwise of this development is farcical.

Please copy & share so as to alert your residents and friends.

Merry Christmas

Gerard Harrington
Chairman
M28 Steering Group

prunudo

They need to design a better system for appealing projects. Thread will be over 15 years old by the time the court hears the case.

spacetweek

danny004 wrote: »

The fact that this whole process was fast tracked through the courts

Well now, that is just factually untrue.

cork_south

I understand the need for this road but will it join the South Ring at the existing junction by Rochestown park?
As a long suffering daily South Ring/JLT user that junction Westbound is already well over capacity at peak times due to merging traffic and the Douglas flyover.

Reputable Rog

cork_south wrote: »

I understand the need for this road but will it join the South Ring at the existing junction by Rochestown park?
As a long suffering daily South Ring/JLT user that junction Westbound is already well over capacity at peak times due to merging traffic and the Douglas flyover.

Unfortunately, yes.

Chris_5339762

Yes. Add an unblocked Dunkettle heading westbound to the N28 and the Douglas Flyover and Rochestown Junction will be the biggest bottleneck in the country. Its going to be awful.

Reputable Rog

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Yes. Add an unblocked Dunkettle heading westbound to the N28 and the Douglas Flyover and Rochestown Junction will be the biggest bottleneck in the country. Its going to be awful.

I think it is hoped that a new southern distributor will remove a lot of the east west local journeys in time.
The problem with the N40 is similar to the M50, too many local journeys.

Chris_5339762

Agreed, but its going to be hard for people to pick a Southern Distributor if its festooned with traffic lights and roundabouts like the Dublin Outer Ring is. N40 will be quicker.

Also I have my doubts the southern distributor will be built. We can't build anything for whinging, NIMBYism and legal challenges at the moment.

The northern one maybe, as the roads that side are really tragic, but the southern I have my doubts about.

spacetweek

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Agreed, but its going to be hard for people to pick a Southern Distributor if its festooned with traffic lights and roundabouts like the Dublin Outer Ring is. N40 will be quicker.

Also I have my doubts the southern distributor will be built. We can't build anything for whinging, NIMBYism and legal challenges at the moment.

The northern one maybe, as the roads that side are really tragic, but the southern I have my doubts about.

Yea, agreed - much of the route the southern one would take involves taking over existing roads. I doubt the locals would like their quiet distributor roads becoming South Link bypasses.

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

Yea, agreed - much of the route the southern one would take involves taking over existing roads. I doubt the locals would like their quiet distributor roads becoming South Link bypasses.

The Southern Distributor Road is mainly to provide a continuous road between Wilton and Douglas as a sort of a "trunk" route, but mainly for buses and cyclists. The road will be 1 car lane in each direction with bus lanes. Where they will get the space for most of it is beyond me.

The Sarsfield Road between the N40 and the Togher Road could do with some works. The turn half way up the hill into the business park is overdue a right turn lane as there's regularly traffic waiting to cross as the road is quite busy.

A better idea would be turning off the lights on the Sarsfield Road Roundabout after 8pm in the evening. Ridiculous waiting for a car to have its hand held around the roundabout with traffic unnecessarily queueing.

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

The Southern Distributor Road is mainly to provide a continuous road between Wilton and Douglas as a sort of a "trunk" route, but mainly for buses and cyclists. The road will be 1 car lane in each direction with bus lanes. Where they will get the space for most of it is beyond me.

Yep, they'll probably be low-speed with a lot of crossings. Definitely one lane with bus. The basic idea being that it's a version of the M40 that sustainable transport is prioritised on. I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.

marno21 wrote: »

A better idea would be turning off the lights on the Sarsfield Road Roundabout after 8pm in the evening. Ridiculous waiting for a car to have its hand held around the roundabout with traffic unnecessarily queueing.

Yep, but you'd still need the "beg" buttons for pedestrians and cyclists of course.

AugustusMinimus

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Yep, they'll probably be low-speed with a lot of crossings. Definitely one lane with bus. The basic idea being that it's a version of the M40 that sustainable transport is prioritised on. I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.


Yep, but you'd still need the "beg" buttons for pedestrians and cyclists of course.

Lights should be put on flashing amber at Dunkettle at night and small hours. No pedestrian crossings there either.

Cork Trucker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Lights should be put on flashing amber at Dunkettle at night and small hours. No pedestrian crossings there either.

When I think back to the ore traffic light days of Dunkettle compared to how I have to wonder was it better without them bar peak times. Prior to then I think only the KRR was the sole roundabout in Cork with signals.

hans aus dtschl

Cork Trucker wrote: »

When I think back to the ore traffic light days of Dunkettle compared to how I have to wonder was it better without them bar peak times. Prior to then I think only the KRR was the sole roundabout in Cork with signals.

Unfortunately I think that horse may have bolted.
They actually fail from time to time and it does cause some problems, with the extent of traffic build-up people literally just pull out in front of the traffic that has priority on the roundabout.

I've actually been stopped on that roundabout while vehicles pull onto the roundabout in front of me, coming from my left! It effectively becomes a game of chicken.

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Unfortunately I think that horse may have bolted.
They actually fail from time to time and it does cause some problems, with the extent of traffic build-up people literally just pull out in front of the traffic that has priority on the roundabout.

I've actually been stopped on that roundabout while vehicles pull onto the roundabout in front of me, coming from my left! It effectively becomes a game of chicken.

Be experienced them being out also; and not at peak times due to the nature of my work in the area, I avoid it like the plague on my days off. I do relate 100% to what you’re saying.

marno21

Cork County Council are hiring a resident engineer for this project (along with Dunkettle and the N22)

https://www.corkcoco.ie/en/careers/professional-technical-vacancies

Hopefully they will have a busy 2020.

Limerick74

From steering group Facebook page:

NEWSFLASH

M28 STEERING GROUP V APB & CCC

Judgement in the above case is to handed down by Mr Justice McGrath at the High Court in Dublin this coming Friday 20th December 2019 at 11am.

Gerard Harrington
Chairman
M28 Steering group

marno21

Limerick74 wrote: »

From steering group Facebook page:

NEWSFLASH

M28 STEERING GROUP V APB & CCC

Judgement in the above case is to handed down by Mr Justice McGrath at the High Court in Dublin this coming Friday 20th December 2019 at 11am.

Gerard Harrington
Chairman
M28 Steering group

Would be a nice Christmas present from Justice McGrath for the upto 47,000 people a day using the N28 at various points, along with the poor people who have to live along the route or its tributaries.

If the legal case falls here you'd hope TII and Cork County Council get moving on the advance works asap. At present, in major scheme terms, we only have the N5 with full planning and the M6 and M21 schemes with An Bord Pleanala. Great opportunity to plough this into construction over the next few years.

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

Would be a nice Christmas present from Justice McGrath for the upto 47,000 people a day using the N28 at various points, along with the poor people who have to live along the route or its tributaries.

If the legal case falls here you'd hope TII and Cork County Council get moving on the advance works asap. At present, in major scheme terms, we only have the N5 with full planning and the M6 and M21 schemes with An Bord Pleanala. Great opportunity to plough this into construction over the next few years.

Is an appeal not inevitable no matter what? Once lodged this will hold it up all the more.

marno21

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Is an appeal not inevitable no matter what? Once lodged this will hold it up all the more.

I'd imagine a lot of it would have to do with how much cash is down the back of the sofa.

Although the effort to date has been quite successful in delaying the scheme, if not getting it quashed.

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

I'd imagine a lot of it would have to do with how much cash is down the back of the sofa.

Although the effort to date has been quite successful in delaying the scheme, if not getting it quashed.

We’ll see another fundraising rally in the RPH if it does go against them, which ties in well with the upcoming general election, I don’t know if you remember the discussion we had last year, but there were a few interesting politicians at their last RPH event.

Do you think yourself that ABP/CCC have done enough to cover themselves here?

annfield1978

M28 Steering Group Facebook Page is saying a decision due this friday

https://www.facebook.com/M28-Steering-Group-175111606272101/

marno21

Anyone here with legal expertise able to outline what's next in this process?

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

Anyone here with legal expertise able to outline what's next in this process?

It depends on the judgement so best wait for that before thinking ahead.

Chris_5339762

I have no legal expertise but if the judgement is to go ahead and build it, expect to see an appeal to the supreme court the same afternoon.

Hibernicis

The high court list has indeed changed yet again, and appears as follows:

Date 20/12/2019
List ADV MR JUSTICE MAC GRATH
Position 13
Result XX
Note JT

Presumably “JT” in the notes means that a Judgement is due.

As Limerick74 says the next steps are entirely dependent on the judgement. Should the judgement go against the M28 Steering Group there are two appeal routes that I am aware of. The Irish Court system (the Supreme Court) on a narrow legal point, or traipsing off to Europe claiming that Ireland was in dereliction of its duties and obligations, most likely on either Citizens Rights or Environmental grounds. Both have high bars to prevent vexatious appeals, and would require Leave to Appeal, and most importantly would leave the appellant open to an award of costs, a risk that the M28 Steering Group has not had to seriously consider previously. From my very limited knowledge of the case the latter is the more likely route given that the weakest point appears to be the EIS (and in particular as it relates to Raffeen Quarry). We will just have to wait an see.

Cork Trucker

Judgement day is almost upon us, i have a question on it, namely the E.I.S which appears to be the centre of their case and the quarry came into it down the line, if the court deem the E.I.S is defective, does this mean it must go back to ABP or will it be that going via the Bloomfield interchange will be ruled out? Can the legal process interfere and rule on such specifics of where a road can/cannot go. Does anyone here believe the E.I.S has defects?

Limerick74

First reports are that the Judge has refused the relief. In other words the objectors did not succeed in their challenge.

kub

Limerick74 wrote: »

First reports are that the Judge has refused the relief. In other words the objectors did not succeed in their challenge.

Roll on an appeal to a higher court, no doubt 🙄