(whisper) drugs?

SantaHoe

"but it is impossible to explain the sensation to a non user"
- Yeah, I'm sure it can't be quantified in any language, but that wasn't anything to do with my original point. So stop quoting me out of context plz.

And as for the whole Acid discussion-
My one and only Acid experience freaked me out so much, I never want to see another one (or anything like it) again... I still wish I hadn't.

Shinji

The problem with Acid isn't the occasional bad trip - and yeah, bad trips can be REALLY bad and leave you quite messed up for days afterwards - it's the flashbacks. LSD is active in the micron range; it passes into the bloodstream and into the brain through the skin, all you need to do is HANDLE it and you get a trip. Because of this, all it takes is a couple of microns lying around in the brain or somewhere in your body which suddenly - a year, five years, a decade later - end up in the right receptors in the brain, and boom, you're tripping again instantly. Be that sitting in a classroom, driving a car, sitting at work 10 years after you stopped doing acid...

Smelly Socks

Hey thats not true, its actually a bit of a myth..
Theres no conclusive proof that acid actually stays in the body. The real truth is more likely that anyone, wether they took acid or not, is capable of flash-backs. Anyone who has an extreme experience, like someone in a car crash or who witnessed something horrible, can flashback. So if someone has really memerable experience on acid, its possible they can flashback, but its rarely damaging, and only ever happens in a very low percentage of people... its no good trying to argue acid is bad because of the "flash-backs". I know plenty of people who've done it and they are completly fine now and never had any flashback.....

But as acid distorts your perceptions so much, you are thinking in a very strange way. If you were to forget you were on acid, you could well go insane for example... basically its more fun to see things like a normal person and not like a `higher` perception only you can understand...

Shinji

Um, it's absolutely proven that it remains in the body; as does any drug in the micron range. I've SEEN acid flashbacks, they're not pleasant at all; that's not just someone "remembering", that's someone suddenly being dropped back into a trip. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain caused by the lsd suddenly finding its way to the right receptors; and it scares the person its happening to ****less, because suddenly the world is very f*cked up and to the best of their knowledge they haven't taken anything to prompt this.

SantaHoe

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shinji:
...and boom, you're tripping again instantly. Be that ... driving a car...</font>

Sad, but funny and true
Reminds me of a Halloween episode of the Simpsons where Auto's bus gets picked up by a giant devil.
Auto: "Wow, another acid flashback, man I'd hate to be driving the bus right now!"

But yeah, the bad trip isn't the worst of it, it's the months of panic attacks and paranoia that follow.
And before anyone mentions it... yeah people have different experiences, and maybe not everyone experiences the negative side effects at first, but IMHO it's not worth the risk.

Panda

Legalise drugs? are u insane? Thats a retarded and uninformed suggestion.

Alcohol is about the only drug the we are able to handle and some cant even manage that.

Shinji

"Thats a retarded and uninformed suggestion."

You know, you make yourself look like a total tosser when you walk into a massive thread full of people discussing a topic at length and throw out a statement like that without bothering to back it up or make reference to anything that has been discussed before.

Take it

I'm guessing that some of you think that hash should be legalised (haven't read all the posts). There is NO WAY!! it should be legal

Why?

Legalising hash will create more drug addicts then alcohol ever created alcoholics!

Paladin

Why would hash do that?

No seriously, I'd like to know your reasoning.

Take it

If a drug is legalised it will be abused hash might not be harmfull if you have one every week or what every people say the limit is but it's common sence that it will be abused if you could walk into a cafe and ask for hash or a pub your telling me you wouldn't smoke it as much or it wouldn't change your habbits BULL SH!T you know it would. What would follow the abuse of hash "i wonder what the next buzz is!" even if it would be a MINORITY i would rather not temp that minority.

As it is in Ireland there are loads of alcholics who refuse to say so, who go out drinking (even if its only one or two pint) every day or second day and say to themselfs they have it under control but if they gave it up for a week they would be gagging for a pint at the end of that week! its the same with cigs the majority of the Irish cant handle the legal drugs so leave the illegal drugs illegal please!

Maybe i am talking utter **** but i know people who smoke hash every day but yet according to them there not addicts and they do worse then hash, coke, e u name it they do it (bar heroin) but there not addicts! according to them. There weeks wages goes on alchol drugs and maybe food. If it was legal they would be stoned 24 hours a day.

Frodo@work@home

if its such common sence the why has the decriminalisation of dope worked so well for so long in holland, and why has belgium adopted the same stance.
the goverment and you are fooling themselves if they think that the large minority of people that smoke dope arnt going to smoke less are more than the would if dope was made legal/decriminalised.
its so easy to find that anybody that wants it can get it, in may have side affects but there nothing to dangeres.
the decriminalisation of dope isnt going to breed a new generation of junkies.
why are the majority of police groups in the uk and ireland calling for a change in the laws concerning dope?
because while its not a completly harmless drug, it has no affect on society on a whole and they think its a waste of there time chasing people for miner dope offences.
even now if you get nicked with a small amount of dope nothing will happen to you.

C B

Firstly, have you people nothing better to do at the weekend? !!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
originally posted by Shinji
Um, it's absolutely proven that it remains in the body; as does any drug in the micron range.
</font>

According to my GP this is entirely false. All drugs are cleaned out of your system at a rate of c. 50% every 24 hours and are completely cleared ouut after roughly seven days. she could be wrong of course could you tell me where you got your info. I thought I was having a flashback a few years ago on Christmas Eve (1996 I think), it was the year of the really bad storm and just as the storm started the wind got into one of the vents in my folks house and started making the carpet ripple across the room. I was having a chat with my Da at the time and was about to start freakiong out until he commented on it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Originally posted by Kento-Shiro
Legalise drugs? are u insane? Thats a retarded and uninformed suggestion.
Alcohol is about the only drug the we are able to handle and some cant even manage that.
</font>

Yes. No. I have said what is informing my suggestion can you please tell me what informs yours? Maybe you still need a nanny state to tell you what to do but some of us would like to be able to make our own decisions without being branded criminals. Would you like the Minister for Health to wipe your **** aswell?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Originally posted by Take it
What would follow the abuse of hash "i wonder what the next buzz is!" even if it would be a MINORITY i would rather not temp that minority.
</font>

Firstly, even if people tried "the next buzz" why would that lead to more addicts? I think you should read my earlier posts to give your own arguement some credence.
secondly, as all drugs are currently banned this leads to all drugs being classifed as part of the same sub culture. This is why hash is considered by the establishment to be a gateway drug. It is not a true gateway drug it can however be a gateway to a dangerous sub culture. Why do many teenagers/ young adults who get drunk on a regular basis never go out looking for the "next buzz"?

[This message has been edited by C B (edited 05-03-2001).]

--Kaiser--

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Take it:
I'm guessing that some of you think that hash should be legalised (haven't read all the posts). There is NO WAY!! it should be legal

Why?

Legalising hash will create more drug addicts then alcohol ever created alcoholics!</font>

What about Prohibition in the US in the 20's?
That didnt stop people drinking alcohol, just increased crime, with lots of gangsters making money from bootlegging (Al Capone).

So perhaps legalising hash will lower crime rates.

And completely out of context for this argument

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Originally posted by Dead{o}Santa
Reminds me of a Halloween episode of the Simpsons where Auto's bus gets picked up by a giant devil.
Auto: "Wow, another acid flashback, man I'd hate to be driving the bus right now!" </font>

His name is OTTO, not AUTO!!!!



[This message has been edited by --Kaiser-- (edited 05-03-2001).]

TwoShedsJackson

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Take it:
If a drug is legalised it will be abused </font>

One of the major points in this thread so far has been that drugs are abused whether their illegal or not - hash is illegal at the moment and is still abused.

Of course alcohol and tobacco are also abused - particularly alcohol, which is a worse killer and wrecker of lives than hash will ever be.

Shiminay

Lets have a quick poll...

What sort of a percentage of people your age and in your area are doing/have done illegal drugs (be it dope or coke or whatever)?

In Castlebar, I'd conservativly say 40% - maybe as high as 50%

It does say a lot that maybe half of the 20 - 25 year old age group in a small (but rapidly growing) town like Castlebar are abusing drugs.

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Prepare yourself - The Beefy King stirs from his slumber...</font>

darthmise

Frodo made a good point earlier, legalisation would give people an element of safety, at least they'd know what they were getting,and not laced with rat poison ort something else thats nasty.

And with regards to a comment on the first page of this thread from Neuro-praxis about being concerned with health and morality...
MORALITY!!!
Thats the kind of pulpit talk we could do without.

You cant really give an unbiased account of anything unless you have experienced both sides of it personally.

Live and let live, don't preach.

Panda

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kharn:
......(be it dope or coke or whatever)......In Castlebar, I'd conservativly say 40% - maybe as high as 50%.......(but rapidly growing).....Castlebar....
</font>

I'm in college here as u know and pot/hash is prolly 40% and pill poppers maybe 25%.

The TF was caught many time and is losing business because getting a name of being a druggy place.

Paladin

Im in west cork, and id say hmm, dunno, not as high at 40%.
Perhaps 10%-20% of teenagers have prolly tried a bit o wacky backy at some stage, but pills are not as common here as in the cities for obvious reasons.

neuro-praxis

Originally posted by Darthmise:

<<And with regards to a comment on the first page of this thread from Neuro-praxis about being concerned with health and morality...
MORALITY!!!
Thats the kind of pulpit talk we could do without.>>

Morals shape you. Duh.

Take it

AH FFS typed long reply cant be arsed typing it again !

Baiscally is leagaising a illeagal drug thats abused is going lead to people stop abusing it? i don't think so. America banning drink after it was legal already, imagaine if it was done in ireland ban drink there would be killings even closing pubs on good friday on Thursday last orders at the bar is MADNESS!

Poll irihstown/pearse st/irishtown MINIMUM 60% take drugs regularly.

darthmise

So am I a bad person because I used to experiment a little?

(Stick it out this time Neuro, I'll promise not to get agro or smart-assed about anything.)

darthmise

I don't disagree for a second that morals shape a person, but I don't see how it's relevant here.

SantaHoe

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kharn:
What sort of a percentage of people your age and in your area are doing/have done illegal drugs (be it dope or coke or whatever)?</font>

I don't think there's really any way to know, so this is really just an exercise in speculation. (Unless you're a social worker or drug dealer)
If I had to make a guess, I'd say the odd 30-60% have tried the funny cigarettes, a much smaller 5-20% having done anything harder.
But then I could be way off, since I'm basing this on people I know/knew/met.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by --Kaiser--:
His name is OTTO, not AUTO!!!!</font>

I'm shocked and horrified... how could I possibly have made such an error?!
I did know that too by the way.
/me hangs his head in shame.

C B

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Take it:

Baiscally is leagaising a illeagal drug thats abused is going lead to people stop abusing it? i don't think so
</font>

Don't try confuse the issue with opaque grammar!

Hacking through your syntax the answer is no. Who said it would be otherwise? Why do you feel the need to engineer a drug free society? Especially given that a sizeable portion of the population do not wish to live in such a society.

Who made you and neuro king and queen of morality, and why do you believe that you have a right to impose your morality on the rest of society?

Why do you fear liberty? Do you fear personal freedom? Do you crave authority and power? Are you ashamed of what you percieve as your own moral weakness?

And more importantly what is the velocity of an unladed sparrow?

Answers on a postcard, and in acceptable grammar!



[This message has been edited by C B (edited 06-03-2001).]

Take it

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Why do you feel the need to engineer a drug free society? Especially given that a sizeable portion of the population do not wish to live in such a society.</font>

There is a lot of things the sizable portion of the population want,that doesn't meen it should be done. If the rascists had there way in Ireland which is as you put it is a sizable portion of the population in Ireland there would be no Asian/Africian/Chinesse allowed in this country what the people want isn't ALWAYS right or for the better.

I also don't want to be walking around streets where its allright to be stoned out of your mind its bad enough with the drink problem in Ireland.

Jak

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Take it:
If a drug is legalised it will be abused hash might not be harmfull ... but it's common sence that it will be abused if you could walk into a cafe and ask for hash or a pub your telling me you wouldn't smoke it as much or it wouldn't change your habbits BULL SH!T you know it would.</font>

I really think these views are a damning sign for the future.

If it's there abuse it?
I can't help myself?

Whatever happened to responsibility? Do people accept any liability for their actions any more? Is it the general view that people are so weak minded that they cannot choose for and look after themselves?

I have access to alcohol, cigarettes and dope every day. However, I choose not to smoke cigarettes at all. I choose to mostly not drink mid-week, and I choose to smoke in moderation. I would like for all three of these choices to be legal. You may want the state to babysit you on this issue, but personally I'd vote against that.

If hash were to be legalised, it would be brought above ground, which is better for all concerned from the PoV that information and guidelines to use would be more reliable from a chemist than a dealer, as would Quality and content.


JAK.

Jak

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Take it:
There is a lot of things the sizable portion of the population want,that doesn't meen it should be done. If the rascists ...</font>

Since when did Racists hold a sizable portion of the vote in this country?

Please don't reply with a quote from your angry neighbour ... I'd like to know the names of the 'sizeable' number of TD's elected with racist agendas.

Unlike racism, I believe the earlier point was that the 'Majority' (were it to come to a vote) may soon be in favour of a more liberal stance on certain drugs.

Personally I have noticed a lot more mid 30's and parents who smoke joints in recent years ... this may be a sign of change ahead.

C B

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Take it:
If the rascists had there way in Ireland which is as you put it is a sizable portion of the population in Ireland there would be no Asian/Africian/Chinesse allowed in this country
</font>

What you are refering to is the dimunition of liberty. The esence of true liberty is such that they only thing which we may not do is reduce the liberty of others.

True liberty provides protect for minorities not via public policy (this would require a democratic mandate which implies majoratarian dominance) but rather via its indivisible attributes.

i.e. liberty stolen from one would be liberty murdered.

Shiminay

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kento-Shiro:
I'm in college here as u know and pot/hash is prolly 40% and pill poppers maybe 25%.

The TF was caught many time and is losing business because getting a name of being a druggy place.

</font>

That may be true of the college Kento, but of the rest of the town...?

I'm nearly 23 and I'm from Castlebar - the TF's been the place to get dope/pills for a long time. They've (authorities) only realised it now!

For those of you outside of Castlebar, I'll explain...

The Travellers Friend (a hotel in Castlebar) has a night club called Panama Jacks which (up until very recently) was one of the most popular in the county and beyond - bus loads used to come from all over Connaught (Galway, Sligo etc) to go to it cause it was such a great club. Recently, it's being torn apart by the Gardaí and the Courts for underage - there was a 14 year old raped (well, it was statutory rape cause she was a minor, but that's not the point) and it has a huge name as a drug spot. The Guards were searching people on the way in and the bouncers continue to do so each week in an effort to clamp down on the whole thing, yet still they get blamed for promoting drug abuse.

Here's the current situation:
The DJ that used to get all the crowds and big acts has left. Now the crowds have left. The court ordered the place to close for 5 days as punishment (which I find way to harsh) and the owner is left wondering what he has to do to get the court of his back and let him run his business in peace.

It's pretty sad that it's affecting a business in this way, but that's just the way it is I'm afraid - I'm very sorry for the owner of the club - the guy's trying his best to sort the club out and keep all parties happy, while at the same time make a living.

I guess you could call this an anti-drug posting, but it doesn't contradict what I've already said. I'm not into pills or stuff that'd be more suited to "going out" - not my style at all. Do it in the comfort/safety of your own home and things like what I've been talking about above don't happen so much.

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Prepare yourself - The Beefy King stirs from his slumber...</font>

Frodo@work

quote:

---

Originally posted by Take it:
If a drug is legalised it will be abused hash might not be harmfull ... but it's common sence that it will be abused if you could walk into a cafe and ask for hash or a pub your telling me you wouldn't smoke it as much or it wouldn't change your habbits BULL SH!T you know it would.

the point is that hash is so easy to get, its not going to make a differance.
anybody that wants to smoke it smokes it already.