I learnt about shooting from that.

Sparks

So much so, DL, that this year, we're sending the gear across on the ferry. Noone tries to drop-kick our rifles, we don't necessarily have to use hardcases, and with the new £25 per rifle surcharge from Heathrow, it works out cheaper for us in the end.

Victor

Make sure never to mix blank and live ammo. It makes a real mess of the blank firing attachment.

Sparks

Right, so we're running an airgun match right now in WTSC. And after the match, I'm setting up a club pistol (an IZH-46M) to my hand, and adjusting the palm shelf. I get it in position while pointing at the target, and then turned it over to tighten the screws. Without thinking. Took less than a second. And I didn't realise, in that second, that a friend of mine was sitting behind me and that in that second, the pistol was pointing in his direction. Now the pistol was unloaded (I was dry-firing), but he didn't know that.

Lesson learnt: it doesn't matter that you've been trained to use a pistol safely by a certified RO; all it takes is that one second of a break in discipline, and you have a potential accident on your hands. And it's so damn easy with pistols because they're so short-barrelled. We're just going to have to step up our game in terms of Range Officering. Proper courses need to be set up and until they are, we need to be going to Northern Ireland, the mainland UK or Germany or somewhere else where they use pistols to get proper training. And we're going to have to think about building stalls on all the ranges for air pistol, just like in UCD, only fully enclosing the shooter with a door to the rear. And we're going to have to expect our ROs to be very strict. I don't know about you lot, but I'd much prefer to be yelled at and embarressed, even by a friend, on a range than to spend a trip to the hospital in the back of a car applying pressure to a wound on a friend.

And yes, there will be people reading this who think that saying this in public now is less than tactful. I don't much care. Safety first either means safety first or it doesn't. Yes, I know, groups like the IPSA run proper safety courses, and I applaud that because it's desperately necessary. Other courses, well, we've discussed that before. They're a good step but need toughening up in terms of strictness. Better to fail a shooter from a test than to pass them and let them get hurt. Time to do the right thing, ladies and gentlemen.

Babble

Check out this story!
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2005/11/from-email.html
Ewwww

Nema

Its so true, There needs to be more training, FIREARMS are not toys and will kill if you F**K up.

I personaly have and will do as much training as im able to,
That bloke in that story was lucky that it wasnt pointed at his or a loved ones head when he pulled the trigger.

3 year ago, Me and a friend of mine came back from a good days shooting.
We went up to his room to clean the guns, 1 Rifle and 2 Shotguns.
My friends brother came in with a friend of his from england and wanted to show him the guns. Me and my friend was cleaning the Shotguns, My friends brother picks up the Rifle and started to show his friend from england.
He then pulled back the bolt and loaded the gun NOT KNOWN what he did he then pointed the rifle at his friend from england thinking it was a game. RIGHT away me and my friend SHOUTED " DONT EVEN POINT A F**KING GUN AT ANYONE" So my friends brother then said sorry and pointed it up to the sky and pulled the trigger BANG. I for one can tell you that you do hear the BANG. i jumped at my friends brother and took the rifle off him calling him a STUPID prick. i said " look what happens when you mess with guns, what if you pulled that trigger 10 second ago when you had it pointed at youre friends head from england" He went WHITE as a ghost and left the room with his friend in stock.

See it is easy for it to happen. When i come home i go in to my gun room lock the door behind me so no one can come in while im cleaning my guns. once im done they go in to there safes. Then and only then i unlock the door to my gun room and leave.

You have to ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS be on youre top game when dealing with firearms. If not someone will get hurt or die!

I for one couldnt live known i hurt or killed a loved one.

Clare gunner

There is a new rifle case out that will survive just about anything short of a nuke blast.It is called the PELI CASE.It is some type of hard plastic[feel like a Glock type polymer]It has an air tight seal around it's rim and an air purge button.So it actually creates a negative pressure inside the case,to keep it from being contaminated by dirt dust,etc.It is "GI proof".IE totally impervious to anything an army grunt can chuck at it.It's advert showed three large German soilders jumping and standing on it,with no damage to it. I belive there is one pic of a bunch of these cases being used as axle stands for a military truck!! It can be locked by normal padlocks.It is heavy and pretty expensive[appx 500 euros].BUT if it will protect a 4000Euro rifle on that vital match or once in a lifetime hunt?????
And as for baggage handlers,YES things that are marked fragile,or such.Or look like they are delicate.WILL be chucked,stamped on and thumped all the harder.I found this out first hand once working for a airport security company that was in charge of baggage screening in Shannon.

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

There is a new rifle case out that will survive just about anything short of a nuke blast.It is called the PELI CASE.

Pelican cases are pretty much the best out there allright CG, but even they're not sufficient - I have heard of one case where a rifle in a hard case which was itself in a pelican case still suffered a broken stock at the pistol grip on arrival.
Still though, I think that that would be a seriously rare case (and it's not certain that the rifle was properly padded in the inner case anyway), and a Pelican would definitely be my choice. And it's not just the cost of the rifle; it's the cost of the rifle, the training, the flight, the effort it took to be selected for the team, and so on. €500 would be cheap...

Rovi

What with all the shiny new pistol owners we have in this country now, I thought I might bring this to your attention-
(Workplace warning!- Graphic thumbnail images of the sort of damage a bullet can do to a person's hand)
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=139310

This sort of thing could of course happen with any sort of firearm, but it's potentially more likely with a handgun.

The damage in this case is particularly severe as it was done with Hydra-Shock personal defence ammunition, but I'd still not want it happening to me even with the wadcutter or ball ammunition used for target shooting.

Play safe folks!

.

coyote6

I was at Virginia Beach Counter Sniper School (Carlos Hathcock's) and had brought a new rifle for the course. I hadn't even zeroed it yet. We'll here I am with lots of operators much more experienced than me. We're zeroing at the 100 shooting 5 rd. groups. My partner is watching my form and spotting for me and we're prone. I shot my first round and got smacked really, really good in my large nose. I pretended nothing happened so as not to appear like the idiot that I was. I shot 5 total rds. My partner later told me he flinched at each one. My nose was bleeding profusely and it was also nicely broken (thats 3 times now over the years). As we're walking down to check our groups my face is covered in blood and the other students, rightly, just sorta' gave me funny looks. I acted like nothing happened and adjusted my eye relief.
My pride was pretty hurt I must say. The Butler Creek flip-up cover button was what was smacking me. And man it hurt. Moral of the story. Zero your rifle PRIOR to going to school and make sure your eye relief is good. If it's not at least you'll have time for your injuries to heal!:o

I've recovered a bit of my dignity since and have been instructing law enforcement firearms for about 8 years.

Biggest tactical safety concerns: Trigger finger discipline, muzzle awareness.

Biggest Shooting Concerns: Weapon to the Threat, Front sight focus, trigger control.

Rovi

There's thread on this very subject one on The Firing Line.

.

Sparks

This just has to be put in for posterity

From breakingnews.ie:

Cheney shoots fellow hunter in Texas

US vice-president Dick Cheney accidentally shot and injured a man during a weekend quail hunting trip in Texas, his spokeswoman said tonight.

Harry Whittington, 78, was “alert and doing fine” after Cheney sprayed Whittington with shotgun pellets at the Armstrong Ranch in south Texas yesterday, said property owner Katharine Armstrong.

She said Cheney turned to shoot a bird and accidentally hit Whittington.

Whittington was taken to Corpus Christi Memorial Hospital by ambulance, she said.

Cheney’s spokeswoman, Lea Anne McBride, said the vice-president was with Whittington, a lawyer from Austin, Texas, and his wife at the hospital this afternoon.

phantom_lord

sorry. i thought you were george.

Cheney accidentally shoots hunting companion

By JoAnne Allen

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally wounded a companion with shotgun pellets on a weekend quail hunt in Texas, his office said on Sunday.

Cheney's companion, Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, 78, was listed in stable condition after being brought in on Saturday night, said Yvonne Wheeler, a spokeswoman for the Christus Spohn Hospital in Corpus Christi, Texas.

Cheney's office said Whittington had been sprayed by birdshot while hunting at the Armstrong Ranch in south Texas, about 200 miles south of San Antonio.

The shooting was first reported by the Corpus Christi Caller-Times. The vice president's office did not disclose the accident until the day after it happened.

Katharine Armstrong, whose family owns the ranch, was a member of the hunting party and witnessed the accident.

She said Cheney, an experienced hunter, did not realise Whittington had rejoined the group without announcing himself, which is proper protocol among hunters.

"They had no idea he was there," Armstrong said.

"A bird flew up, the vice president followed it through around to his right and shot, and unfortunately, unbeknownst to anybody, Harry was there and he got peppered pretty good with a spray of 28-gauge pellets," Armstrong said in a telephone interview.

"He was turning, facing the vice president, but turning to the right, and it sprayed him across the right side of his face, his shoulder, his chest and along the rib cage area," she said.

Armstrong said Cheney's medical team attended to Whittington before he was taken to the hospital.

She described Cheney as "an excellent, conscientious shot."

"The person who is not doing the shooting at the point is just as responsible and, should be, as the person actually shooting," Armstrong said.

Cheney spokeswoman Lea Anne McBride said the vice president had been with Whittington at the hospital on Sunday.

"The vice president visited with Harry Whittington at the hospital and was pleased to see he is doing fine and in good spirits," McBride said.

Cheney has been a frequent visitor to the Armstrong Ranch and in October spoke at the funeral of family patriarch Tobin Armstrong.

Armstrong's wife, Anne, served as U.S. ambassador to Britain and as an adviser to presidents Nixon, Reagan and George Bush.

The 50,000-acre ranch was settled in 1882 by his grandfather, John Armstrong III, a Texas Ranger known for capturing outlaw John Wesley Hardin.

Whittington serves on the Texas state Funeral Services Commission and the state Office of Patient Protection and is a former member of the board of the Texas Department of Corrections.

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=6462984&cKey=1139791821000
__________________

I thought I'd just add a bit....

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=50873028&posted=1#post50873028

Rovi

... but closely related.

Don't try out a new clay pigeon launcher...








in the dark...








at full elevation...









directly into the wind. :rolleyes:








I missed. Just.


.

Manic Moran

macnas wrote:

Never put anything on the roof of the car especially in the dark.

Returning to the car after a night flight, being more concerned about taking off the wet wellie, put the shotgun on the roof. Fresh socks, dry boots, drove home.......about 6 miles........pitch dark.........pouring rain..........narrow, twisty roads..........into the house......... had dinner...........half way through a spud.............OOOH B****X!. And was it on the roof when I ran out........Nope. Rang the Gardai told them what had happened and went out lookin'. Tried to remember where on the road I had heard that metal on metal sliding noise and suprise, suprise not far away was my Beretta lying in the mud at the side of the road. Not a scratch!!.
You would have thought I'd have learned my lesson from that but no, left my Buck Zipper on the roof, drove off and never saw it again.

My driver did that in Mosul. Getting in about 11pm, he left his Beretta and holster on the front slope. Off we went, out the gate, we didn't know any better. Shortly out the gate, we were blinded by oncoming traffic and ploughed into a concrete barrier, coming to an abrupt stop. After cursing a bit, we kindof reversed, drove around the remains, and kept going. Took about a half hour to get to our school that we were staying at, and immediately took an 8-hour watch. Finally, we pull into our parking spot and go to bed. Driver comes up to me fifteen minutes later, telling me he's lost his sidearm. After a bit more searching, nothing for it. Drive back home, and see if he left it in his room. As we're travelling, I wonder if it might have fallen off when we hit the concrete. Sure enough, as we get there, some 10 hours after we were there last, I see the holster and rather squashed Beretta in the middle of the road. Looks like it fell to the ground when we stopped, when we went around, we then ran over it.

Make sure never to mix blank and live ammo. It makes a real mess of the blank firing attachment.

Very nearly made a mess of the enemy as well. Fortunately, the troop missed. We're still not sure how the live round got in there.

NTM

Vegeta

Rovi wrote:

... but closely related.

Don't try out a new clay pigeon launcher...








in the dark...








at full elevation...









directly into the wind. :rolleyes:








I missed. Just.


.

Where we go clay shooting its very windy usually, so we set up the clay trap so that the wind plays all sorts of games with the trajectory, sometimes its possible to get them to hold still in the air for a few seconds its class. Never did this at night though, get glow in the dark paint and i think we could be onto something

mrbig

Is it legal to own a hand gun in Ireland? if so is this a new thing.
I was thinking of getting a shotgun to do some clay shooting, i used to use my fathers gun when i was a teenager,where should i go to get a good gunsmith west dublin/ kildare area?

Babble

^^^ I asked the same question
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=300320

Double Barrel

I always get a cold shiver down my spine when I think of the few close calls I have experienced; all with no injury to persons or things.

I heard today that John Young the Editor of The Field was shooting at a social clay-shooting event and during a flurry, the unthinkable happened.

The bag or pocket from which his 12 bore was being loaded contained at least one 20 bore cartridge.

You can guess the rest. Helicoptered away to hospital. News of his condition not yet reported.

A timely reminder that whoever we are, however much experience we have, only one slip of the mind, only one failure to maintain our safety routine is needed to lead us into disaster.

One can never be too careful.

Vegeta

man that sounds rough, what kind of damage would happen with a 20 gauge cartridge in a 12g shotgun, would it blow open the action, could it have burst the barrell???? I am having a tough time picturing it,

Very good point though DB, it only ever takes one mistake in a lifetime of shooting/hunting for it to be lethal

Rew

20 in then a 12 on top without realising it id say....

civdef

It would definitely blow up the barrell, usually splitting it in dramatic fashion.

Rovi

Commonly known as a "12-20 burst" (stick it in Google for loads of hits), it's where the rim of a 20 gauge cartridge fits down a 12 gauge chamber but lodges at the bottom of the chamber and doesn't drop the whole way down the barrel.
A 12 gauge cartridge will then chamber and fire normally on top of it, with disastrous results.

Vegeta

Rovi wrote:

Commonly known as a "12-20 burst" (stick it in Google for loads of hits), it's where the rim of a 20 gauge cartridge fits down a 12 gauge chamber but lodges at the bottom of the chamber and doesn't drop the whole way down the barrel.
A 12 gauge cartridge will then chamber and fire normally on top of it, with disastrous results.

Whoa that is seriuosly messed up, I thought the 20 gauge would have been a very poor fit and moved around, with the shot moving in a direction other than down the barrell, didn't realise he fired a 12 gauge cartridge down onto a 20 gauge :eek:

Smokeless Coal

I hate to say this guys but there will be anti-shooting fanatics reading these posts and the indications of near accidents and lax safety only gives them ammunition against us. What do you recon?

http://www.glossover.co.uk/rts/

oops I seem to have stuck in an ad for a site I post on

civdef

My own reading of it is that this thread is indicative of a very proactive attitude to safety, and promotes learning from the mistakes of others in order to prevent further occurrances.

I think Sparks pointed out the last time this was debated that Aviation Safety uses a similar approach, and people don't generally accuse the aviation industry of having a poor attitude to safety.

Vegeta

civdef wrote:

My own reading of it is that this thread is indicative of a very proactive attitude to safety, and promotes learning from the mistakes of others in order to prevent further occurrances.

I think Sparks pointed out the last time this was debated that Aviation Safety uses a similar approach, and people don't generally accuse the aviation industry of having a poor attitude to safety.

Yeah i have to agree with civdef, for example i just learned about the 20-12 gauge incident and hopefully will be wiser because of this. I don't own a 20 gauge but if I am ever shooting with a person with a 20 gauge i will tripple check my ammo when loading

Smokeless Coal

You miss-understand me guys, I know we all learn by mistakes and hearing of dangers from others helps us not to do the same. The point I was trying to put is that we have to be aware of the anti's out there who like nothing better than us cutting our own throats.
All of mans activities have developed through the experiments of others, and hopefully we have learned to be safer in ours.

civdef

I don't see how this thread provides the antis with ammunition (if you'll pardon the pun).

Smokeless Coal

Oh come on now, there are posts here about people climbing over stiles and shotgun goes off, leaving weapons on roof of car, a 7.62 shot in the air, air pistol pointed at freind luckily unloaded. Yes nobody is infallible and the knowledge helps us to be more vigilant.
The anti's are a lot more organised and vigilant that most give them credit for, thats how they pooled tons of snippets of similar events to influence the politicians to ban the pistol in the UK.
When I write to MP's and the press I emphasize that shooting is a safe sport and its proponents are responsible, vigilant and disciplined individuals. Some of the replies I have had use threads like this one as evidence against repealing the ban.
Just saying dont shoot yourself in the foot.

civdef

I don't think we can pull off trying to convince the world at large that all shooters are perfect specimens of humanity with a god given gift of infallibility.