Battlestar Galactica, episode 8: "Flesh and Bone"

Praetorian

It was crap!

I didn't think the episode was great but it certainly gives us lots to think about. I presume Gaius didn't inform Adama about Boomer because he feared the commander simply wouldn't believe him, or it's possible he thinks his cyclon detector may not be functioning properly. With or without the detector it should have been very obvious to Gaius that something was amiss; why would a real human be so pushy about the test in the first place? Of course the chief has got to know, but he's blinded by his love for the machine

I thought the torture scenes were a little unimaginative. A machine cannot be broken mentally by torture. I think the doctor would have had a better chance of getting info out of Oben possibly by drugging him.

Roll on next Monday!

ishmael whale

Ivan wrote:

You are just way too political for my tastes.

Each to his own. I find the choice of theme particularly of interest.

Ivan wrote:

And since when did a polytheistic religion = more primitive?

It’s simply the case. Religious belief tends to start with myths about gods, like the polytheistic religion of the humans in BSG. These are replaced by monotheistic religions, such as Christianity and Islam, both of which supplanted various cults based on gods and idols.

Modern religion are sensitive to suggestions that they retain elements of polytheism. For example, Hindus would say they are only superficially polytheistic. Somewhat similarly Irish Catholics will be comfortable with the idea of three persons in the one god, and would reject any idea this was a polytheistic hangover. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism

Hence the comment by Lee during his interrogation to the effect that he shares in a revelation of the face of god whereas the humans are lost in myth. It's much the same as the attitude of early Christians, later missionaries and early Islamics. It would be shared by some Protestants who would regard Catholics as living in idolatry.

soma

One thing I'm surprised no one has mentioned.

Did anyone think the C.G.I where Lee was blown out of the airlock was absolutely atrocious..?

It looked like a computer game FFS. :-/ Up until that I've found the CGI very impressive (quite B5..).

Praetorian

It was crap!

soma wrote:

One thing I'm surprised no one has mentioned.

Did anyone think the C.G.I where Lee was blown out of the airlock was absolutely atrocious..?

It looked like a computer game FFS. :-/ Up until that I've found the CGI very impressive (quite B5..).

Space ships and mechanical cylons are quite easy to do compared to animating and rendered a cylon that looks human

Ivan

It was great!

ishmael whale wrote:

It’s simply the case. Religious belief tends to start with myths about gods, like the polytheistic religion of the humans in BSG. These are replaced by monotheistic religions, such as Christianity and Islam, both of which supplanted various cults based on gods and idols.

So because, we the human race, have gone from polytheism to monotheism as we became more civilised, that automatically means that polytheism is more primitive than monotheism .

That just doesnt sit well with me.

Does this then mean, that no religion at all, is the least primitive? (As that seems to be where we're heading)

MisterAnarchy

It was crap!

Did anyone think the C.G.I where Lee was blown out of the airlock was absolutely atrocious..?

Yes I noted this was very badly done.
Otherwise the special effects are top class.

ishmael whale

Ivan wrote:

So because, we the human race, have gone from polytheism to monotheism as we became more civilised, that automatically means that polytheism is more primitive than monotheism .

Well I've heard there's some pretty advanced polytheistic religions on Alpha Centauri but none of the research has been published yet so its hard to judge.

In all seriousness, I'm mostly suggesting that the writers of the series would be influenced by what is generally known about religions. Most polytheistic beliefs dropped like a lead zepplin once their cultures were seriously challenged by monotheism.

Ivan wrote:

Does this then mean, that no religion at all, is the least primitive? (As that seems to be where we're heading)

Who's to know? Maybe.

secret_squirrel

It was crap!

Mantel wrote:

Gaius was a total traitor in the orignal series

Do you mean the miniseries? In which case I disagree completely. Or was there a Dr Gaius in the Orig Series? Was he the one the conehead cylons were always bowing to?

TCamen

It was great!

Do you mean the miniseries? In which case I disagree completely. Or was there a Dr Gaius in the Orig Series? Was he the one the conehead cylons were always bowing to?

Gaius was a total traitor in the original series

Mantel meant 1978 Galactica, in which Baltar betrayed the Colonial fleet in exchange for his survival. I like the version of 'Saga of a Star World' which has Baltar getting beheaded

The 'conehead' up on the big throne was Count Iblis, voiced by Patrick Macnee.

Mantel

Mantel meant 1978 Galactica

yeap

Baltar betrayed the Colonial fleet in exchange for his survival.

They cylons promised that they'd spare his homeworld and make him leader of it if he convinced humanity to sign the treaty or whatever they had but the cylons decided to do other things. He still sided with them instead of loosing his own life even after they lied to him.

I like the version of 'Saga of a Star World' which has Baltar getting beheaded

Never seen that one have to get some of the original series and watch it again. The cheese! I hated the robots they had in it (on the human side) that midget one and the round flashing one they called doctor somethingorother, I can't remember the names.

TCamen

It was great!

the robots they had in it (on the human side) that midget one and the round flashing one they called doctor somethingorother, I can't remember the names.

That was 'Buck Rogers'

Twiki was the little midget one, and Dr. Theopolis was the clock-type one. You can get Buck Rogers on DVD as well as Galactica if ya really want to see them again.

telemachus

It was great!

Just belatedly watched this one after taping it, along with the last one I really enjoyed it.

It seemed to give a little more insight into the cylon "religion", what they refer to as god seems to be their own collective consciousness, they themselves in totality being what they worship.

You also wonder if classifying the human-esque cylon infiltrators as "cylon" in essence is a bit off, given the nature of the job they could well be exceptions to the rule of what their race is, having to act outside the group mind they're almost a hybird of human and cylon, maybe in the future this will prove to be a weakness in another episode, as a result of the cylons making their infiltrators too human and the need for independance they could well end up with frayed loyalties over time. In a way the show still hasn't shown us anything but the most human side of the cylons, the exceptions to the race.

With the whole presidential dream sequences it seemed to happen on both occasions when she was drifting between sleep and consciousness, could it be that this is a time the brain is more open to whatever it is they're using to "communicate", and that this is why Gaius is so important, as a genius cum savant he utilises more of his brain and is suseptible even during waking moments (presumably this would mean six is in person present somewhere amidst the fleet since they're out of range of the group cylon god/mind).

ps if Adama genuinely is a cylon it proves conclusively surely that the fleet is being kept alive intentionaly for some purpose as they could have used him to ensure destruction at any one of dozens of moments without triggering alarm, a sort of macrocosm of the lab rat routine going on on Caprica.

Ivan

It was great!

telemachus wrote:

ps if Adama genuinely is a cylon it proves conclusively surely that the fleet is being kept alive intentionaly for some purpose as they could have used him to ensure destruction at any one of dozens of moments without triggering alarm, a sort of macrocosm of the lab rat routine going on on Caprica.

In fairness with Boomer on board and presumably others, I think the cylons could easily ensure Galacticas destruction or at the very least ineffectiveness in a fight. I'd imagine that should prove that the cylons ARE keeping the humans alive, for whatever reason.

ixoy

It was okay...

Ivan wrote:

I'd imagine that should prove that the cylons ARE keeping the humans alive, for whatever reason.

Something I've stated for weeks now and more convinced of than ever. It's some sort of science experiment - a social study, probably motivated by religion. It's consistent with them doing hit-and-run guerilla tactics, sabotaging water supplies, etc. Nothing crippling - just damaging.

Then their mind-****s with Baltar, Starbuck, Helo, etc. just continue this on a more individual level. We'll see if I'm right.

Peace

It was okay...

ixoy wrote:

Something I've stated for weeks now and more convinced of than ever. It's some sort of science experiment - a social study, probably motivated by religion. It's consistent with them doing hit-and-run guerilla tactics, sabotaging water supplies, etc. Nothing crippling - just damaging.

Then their mind-****s with Baltar, Starbuck, Helo, etc. just continue this on a more individual level. We'll see if I'm right.

Perhaps they are waiting for them to find Earth sot hat they can wipe us all out in one foul swoop. *Shakes fist at dirty cylons*

Fenster

It was okay...

People who'd rather watch Andromeda make me sad.

Ivan

It was great!

Fenster wrote:

People who'd rather watch Andromeda make me sad.

Andromeda has some great single episodes and the story arc isnt too bad either, however, there are just so MANY bad episodes in it.

But then, I have to imagine that its just a case of disliking BSG to the point where "It was crap!" doesnt quite cover it, so they need to go that one step further.

I mean, who would actually admit to liking Andromeda, publically?

Mantel

TCamen wrote:

That was 'Buck Rogers'

Twiki was the little midget one, and Dr. Theopolis was the clock-type one. You can get Buck Rogers on DVD as well as Galactica if ya really want to see them again.

ooops. I guess my memory is getting fuzzy or all those old sci-fi shows are blending together into one. Next thing Monkey will get mixed in and I'll be complaining about the pig demon and the bad dubbing they had on galactica

TCamen

It was great!

ooops. I guess my memory is getting fuzzy or all those old sci-fi shows are blending together into one. Next thing Monkey will get mixed in and I'll be complaining about the pig demon and the bad dubbing they had on galactica

And just what *IS* Wonder Woman doing on the flight deck?!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

It was great!

adama can't be a cylon.. he was fine at the arms depot on the planet in the pilot.

it's the president!!

it's got to be... the rest are all pretty young though

David Stewart

Brerrabbit wrote:

Excellent ep; the prez flushing lee out an airlock was pretty brutal and came as a surprise (A bit out of character though?)

I thought it was perfectly in character. The Prez has demonstrated on previous occasions that she understands that as President she has to make hard decisions and that her first concern is the welfare of the remaining humans. She may come across sometimes as a namby-pamby liberal, but when the chips are down, she can be as hard as nails.

Ivan

It was great!

Mordeth wrote:

adama can't be a cylon.. he was fine at the arms depot on the planet in the pilot.

it's the president!!

it's got to be... the rest are all pretty young though

Damn good point. Except its supposed to take a damn long time for it to affect them.

Although it does sorta seem like they left a nice, natural, fully functional cylon detector back at the arms depot.

Convenient I guess.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

It was great!

well, there are only 12 cylon models..

hrm.... although thinking back, the cylon at the arms depot did seem awfully.. friendly with adama. I put it down to his ordinary mind games but maybe there was something else too, he was enjoying a private joke about adama that adama didn't quite get yet...

TCamen

It was great!

hrm.... although thinking back, the cylon at the arms depot did seem awfully.. friendly with adama. I put it down to his ordinary mind games but maybe there was something else too, he was enjoying a private joke about adama that adama didn't quite get yet...

Hmmm I'm still 100% trusting that Adama is a human... of course President Roslin can't say the same thing anymore, now can she?

I think Lee told her just to mess her up... either she's a Cylon & he was toying with her, OR, the Cylons somehow know she's a little whacked out on the medicine she's taking, and paranoia about Adama is a perfect side dish.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

It was great!

ooooh, I love this series

secret_squirrel

It was crap!

Ivan wrote:

I mean, who would actually admit to liking Andromeda, publically?

me - at least when it was still on sky. Had some good aliens and a great story arc. Was starting to lose its way when sky binned it tho...

Sooner or Later

It was great!

Another great episode, highlight being the Prez flushing the prisoner out of the airlock.

Interesting how his comments to Starbuck suggest that we will get to see Kobol (just like in the original series) and possibly Earth.

Fenster

It was okay...

secret_squirrel wrote:

me - at least when it was still on sky. Had some good aliens and a great story arc. Was starting to lose its way when sky binned it tho...

Unclean! Unclean!

TCamen

It was great!

me - at least when it was still on sky. Had some good aliens and a great story arc. Was starting to lose its way when sky binned it tho...

The show was generally cheesy to start with, but the guiding hand of Robert Hewitt Wolfe meant that the arc was quite interesting. Of course, just when it started to get good, they fired him, and Kevin Sorbo got his wish to become the next Kirk-- all powerful, centre of the universe, snogging bimbos every week *sigh*

Actors are not producers, and shouldn't be allowed that much control :mad:

It *COULD* have been a decent show if it was allowed to develop the way Wolfe was taking it.

c0y0te

It was okay...

c0y0te wrote:

OK. Finally got to see this tonight after I spaced the outlaws and managed to get some spare time to myself. Fed the dogs, grabbed some couch time and settled in to another excellent episode. ,

Thats a fair list of hurdles,I watched four episodes last night and yay, I have caught up with the rest of ye now
Theres some great analytical posts on these threads by the way

Peace wrote:

Blowing the guy out of the airlock was a mistake. They would more than likely never get any useful information out of him but they should have conducted experiments on him and at the very least use him as a control test on the cylon detector.

I thought that too.As regards the cylon detector,is that actually for real,I know it came up showing all red dots for Boomer but I thought Baltar under the influence of 6 didn't really want to build a cylon detector, much less know how to build one?

ixoy wrote:

So if any BSG crew say "God" and not "gods" be on the lookout.

Insightfull observation there. It would be difficult not to notice Adama using "God" instead of "Gods",I'm wondering if the writers are going that deep in the build they are putting into the characters and this storyline. They are definitely capable of it, so I hope so.

Fenster wrote:

although once again Caprica is going nowhere.

Regarding Caprica, how come it's in such good nick , now forgive me as theres been a good gap between episodes for me, but wasn't there an awfull lot of nuclear bombs exploded there in the mini series, and yet no sign of the nuclear winter
Apart from a few slight tecnicalities,theres more than enough in this to keep me gagging for another episode.
I've cleared the sky plus memory now so, time permitting I should see it in a few weeks