The 8 String "Leviathan"

Karl Hungus

Now, a lot of regulars here would know, I've been very seriously considering getting a custom made 8 String guitar from LGM, and it's looking more and more likely that I will be able to afford it (all things going to plan) in the very near future, so I've decided to post a thread about it in hope that the good people of boards will help me out on a few details I'm still unsure of.

Here's the details on the LGM LeVIIIathan

What I've decided on so far:

24 Fret
Mahogany Body
Maple Neck
Quilt Maple Top
Ebony Fretboard
Locking Tuners
2 Seymour Duncan Pickups
Tone, Volume & 3 Way Switch
Metal Pickup Rings
Black Hardware

I've had plenty of silly ideas for custom fretboard inlays, but I've settled on the idea of no fretmarkers on the fretboard face itself, just side markers. I'm nearly thinking just a plain solid black finish aswell, but this is really bugging me altogether whether or not I should get a transparent finish to show off the quilted maple, or a complete custom peice of artwork, only I don't know what that artwork would be. It really has me stumped, but at the same time, I love the minimalism of the solid black and blank ebony fretboard. So any advice here would be appreciated, as I'm just stumped.

As for the Piezo system, that's still kinda up in the air, so to speak, but I'm not sure I want to over-complicate things too much.

Thoughts on the setup so far?
Any advice would be very helpfull.

feylya

At this moment of drunkeness, the quilted top is absolutely worthless if you get a solid colour. I heartily recommend a custom inlay. It just adds to a guitar's uniqueness imo. As for the piezo, DON'T!!! Get a seperate acoustic guitar. It'll sound better. And if you have to, you could always simulate the acoustic properties from the magnetic pickups.

Karl Hungus

feylya wrote:

At this moment of drunkeness, the quilted top is absolutely worthless if you get a solid colour. I heartily recommend a custom inlay. It just adds to a guitar's uniqueness imo. As for the piezo, DON'T!!! Get a seperate acoustic guitar. It'll sound better. And if you have to, you could always simulate the acoustic properties from the magnetic pickups.

To be honest, I'm more interested in the maple top for the tonal qualities moreso than the aesthetic qualities, although I'm certainly not going to rule out a nice trans finish.

Fair enough on the piezo.

feylya

If you're going for the maple cap merely to balance the tone, there's is no reason to have it quilted. Simple plain maple will give you the same effect.

Karl Hungus

I was of the impression that quilted was a much more rich maple, and would make a difference? Anyway, I'm still undecided about the finish, so we'll just leave it as quilted maple for now.

feylya

As long as it's rock maple, it's basically the same tone. The quilted only adds to the price and lovliness

Karl Hungus

Fair enough so...
T'will depend on whether or not I go for a solid or trans finish.

Forgot to ask in the original post, but... Fanned Frets. I don't know if LGM will do this at all, I know Conklin does, but would it really make that much of a difference at all? Reading up about the concept, it seems very interesting altogether, and although it would probably take a lot of getting used to, well so would an 8 string guitar in the first place. So a worthwhile investment?

feylya

IMVO, no. It's a nice idea, making intonation closer to perfect but your average punter won't have that sort of ear.

Karl Hungus

Are you calling me an average punter? :mad:

feylya

No. I'm talking about your audience.

Karl Hungus

Well, I'm not really thinking about whether or not they'll have the ear for it, but simply for myself, is it worth it?

feylya

Put it this way - quilted maple is only for appearance.

A maple cap is recommended.

Karl Hungus

I was talking about the fanned frets...

feylya

/me blames beer

TBH, I'd take the Buzz Feiten tuning system over the fanned frets.

Karl Hungus

Buzz Feiten tuning system?
Explain...

feylya

Basicall detuning all the frets the same about.

Explain later. me sleep now.

Karl Hungus

*BOGGLE*

Right, well I was looking at the finishes on the ESP website, and I think I found a great example of a nice trans-black finish on a quilt maple top. Check the attatchment.

Sweet.

Karl Hungus

I've found some other nice examples of trans-black finishes here and here. Thoughts?

Edit:

Actually found some more excellent examples here and here.

So far, I think this is absolutely beautiful:



I think I'm really gone on the trans-black finish now.

eoin5

reminds me of skunk anansies pants! 8 strings , soon well basically have fretted harps

Zombienosh

8 strings madness i take it its B to A ?

its got a killer look to it too, nice finishes......especially the all blacked out one.....
how much would one of these set you back?

Phil_321

8 strings! fúck me!!
Those trans black finishes are pretty cool, but I'm not gone on the obvious line along the middle of the body.

Doctor J

Perhaps put a 5 way switch in it and have 2 and 4 as coil taps - ie - single coil bridge, single coil neck? A little bit more versatility if you ever need it.

Karl Hungus

-AlcoholicA- wrote:

8 strings madness i take it its B to A ?

its got a killer look to it too, nice finishes......especially the all blacked out one.....
how much would one of these set you back?

You take it wrong... It's F# to E I believe, the 8th string is lower than B. A hell of a lot of low-end. It's going to be hard getting strings though, I'll probably have to order a bunch of Ernie Ball custom gage 70's off the internet along with a few 7 string packs.

And yeah, it does indeed look fantastic. Very nice shape, really rather metal, but not too over the top like some of the more ridiculous BC Rich models, like the Beast or Ironbird. Definetly one of the best designed guitar I've ever come across, and possible the only guitar I actually think looks good with a downwards pointing headstock.

Not exactly sure how much it's going to be altogether, but a rough estimate would be about €2500. But there's not really anyway to tell as there's no set price for the mahogany body (standard is Alder) on the site, or a few other options I want. Or for that matter how much tax I'll have to pay when it arrives.

Doctor J wrote:

Perhaps put a 5 way switch in it and have 2 and 4 as coil taps - ie - single coil bridge, single coil neck? A little bit more versatility if you ever need it.

Hmm... Now that's something I've not actually considered before. Thanks for pointing out an excellent option, I must add that to the list. Any other helpfull suggestions while you're at it, Doc?

Doctor J

Either a 5 way or maybe have a three way and use a pull/push pot on the volume and tone, vol tapping the neck, tone tapping the bridge. That way tou get the most amount of tonal varieties out of the pickups.

Personally, I'd go for maybe chrome or smoked silver hardware, something to offset the blackness of the whole thing, a bit of contrast to highlight the trans black. It's the non black parts on that Les Paul which highlight the top.

Karl Hungus

Hmm... I don't know about that now, I really do like the black, and I don't really want to offset it much at all.

Oh, and what are your thoughts on the fanned frets btw?
That is, if I can get them done.

Doctor J

As a concept I like it, but how it'd feel in practice is a different matter. You may not find it comfortable and you don't want to spend two and a half grand on something you might regret and have difficulty adjusting to.

D!ve^Bomb!

wow that's a lot of money for somethin you have never played and will not play untill its paid for and recieved!!

Have you played an 8 string before? if you haven't do you plan to.. because i know i would find it very uncomfortable..

Karl Hungus

Doctor J wrote:

As a concept I like it, but how it'd feel in practice is a different matter. You may not find it comfortable and you don't want to spend two and a half grand on something you might regret and have difficulty adjusting to.

You raise another good point, and it is a lot of money to invest, but I think that the posibility I might regret it and have difficulty adjusting is a bit of an extreme. On the other hand, reading up on the idea, it does seem to be that the more strings on a guitar, the more relevant and important a concept fanned frets is. So while it's probably something I'd never fully consider on a 6 stringer, or even 7, it does seem like something that's worth considering in depth. That is, untill I find out whether or not Jeremy would even do fanned frets in the first place.

It's really unfortunate that there'd be no opportunity for me to test out a guitar with fanned frets. Though I really can't see myself having any problems adjusting, but that's just me it seems, as I've a friend who's quite an excellent bass player altogether, yet any time he plays my 5 string he simply cannot use it whatsoever and he just says that he's used to 4 strings. Me on the other hand, when I went from my 4 string Legend to my current Warlock I didn't really need to adjust at all. I guess I'm just a pretty bendy musician, eh?

Oh, and I think the 5-way switch would be better than the pull/push pots.

Doctor J

Sometimes you've got to gamble and hope for the best. When I got my 6 string bass, I had only ever played a 5 string in a shop about 5 years ago. Going for a 6 was a gamble and it did take a bit of time to adjust. I quickly established a short strap was the only way it'd work, to get my left hand around the bulk of the neck and comfortable, though I still find playing higher not as comfortable for my right hand. Sometimes I still feel the need to play a 4. I'm certainly not as mobile on a 6 as I am on a 4. I'm getting there but I see the 6 as a different instrument to a 4, rather than just a bass with more strings. I think you'll always find yourself coming back to a 6 at times. It requires a different approach, mentally, to make the most of what it can do. This guitar is a big gamble, but that's fine, you've got to take risks to progress in everything. Just be sure you go for what you want and what you'll use, rather than try and make it the guitar to end all guitars, because I don't think there is one 'right' guitar. It's a lot of money and, if I were you, I'd ask Jeremy if you could get in contact with other people he has sold 8's to, just to get their feedback on the 8 as an instrument and their experiences with it, perhaps this might help you decide what you'll need. You're heading into different instrument territory, and what you may experience, based on playing a 6 string guitar is just speculation at this point. I'd really want to hear from people who've been there.

Doctor J

Karl Hungus wrote:

You take it wrong... It's F# to E I believe, the 8th string is lower than B.

This is a bit of a surprise. I would have thought B to A myself. TBH I can't really see the point of going this low. You're going to have difficulty finding an amp that can deal with that frequency range. Realistically you're looking at running a crossover splitting the low frequencies from the high and feeding a bass amp and a regular guitar amp, either that or a keyboard amp. I think you'd be compromising your tone either way. If you're playing the low F#, you are playing the same note as the second fret on a regularily tuned bass, you don't want that coming out of a Mesa. A low tuned bass isn't going to play the F# below that so if you're playing along with a bassist you'll both be playing the exact same notes, and kill each other's tone. I think B is plenty low myself, but it's your call.

Karl Hungus

Doctor J wrote:

Sometimes you've got to gamble and hope for the best. When I got my 6 string bass, I had only ever played a 5 string in a shop about 5 years ago. Going for a 6 was a gamble and it did take a bit of time to adjust. I quickly established a short strap was the only way it'd work, to get my left hand around the bulk of the neck and comfortable, though I still find playing higher not as comfortable for my right hand. Sometimes I still feel the need to play a 4. I'm certainly not as mobile on a 6 as I am on a 4. I'm getting there but I see the 6 as a different instrument to a 4, rather than just a bass with more strings. I think you'll always find yourself coming back to a 6 at times. It requires a different approach, mentally, to make the most of what it can do. This guitar is a big gamble, but that's fine, you've got to take risks to progress in everything. Just be sure you go for what you want and what you'll use, rather than try and make it the guitar to end all guitars, because I don't think there is one 'right' guitar. It's a lot of money and, if I were you, I'd ask Jeremy if you could get in contact with other people he has sold 8's to, just to get their feedback on the 8 as an instrument and their experiences with it, perhaps this might help you decide what you'll need. You're heading into different instrument territory, and what you may experience, based on playing a 6 string guitar is just speculation at this point. I'd really want to hear from people who've been there.

You definetly make a great point about going for what I want, and not trying to make it a guitar to end all guitars. That's certainly not what I'm trying to do at all, but in getting what's quite possibly my dream guitar, I do want to make sure it's going to be as excellent as it can be, if you get my meaning?

So, if fanned frets is something of a possibility, I'm definetly going to consider it in full, much like I've considered the piezo system in the other thread. Maybe I'll come to decide that they're unessicary, as I've come to think about the piezo now? Maybe it's not even an option and I'll just go "Oh well..."?

Something else you bring up, and I'd like to add to, is that I am indeed heading into different instrument territory, reguardless of whether or not I'm willing to make a big adjustment, there's almost no getting away from it. As such, would the fanned frets be any different or more far removed to the concept of the 8 string being a different instrument? And as you say yourself about taking a risk to progress, just reading up on the concept of fanned frets, I think it's definetly taking a step farward in the progression of guitars.

I'll definetly take your advice about seeing if I can get in contact with anyone Jeremy has done an 8 string for before, and see what happens then. Maybe I'll try and get in contact with Rusty Cooley and see what he has to say about the fanned frets? It's worth a shot.