Pinergy Feedback

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123868991#Comment_123868991

How much was from the level pay part? Do they still make you pay every month and then refund when it builds up?
Seems odd. As I was saying to you earlier I'd love to change to pinergy but I'd need to change up my storage a bit.

I'd also be concerned about giving up my MCC02 designation as you can't get it back once it's gone, and if pinergy go bust (or anytime your supply company goes bust) you get sent to the SOLR - supplier of last resort - which is still electric ireland afaik, and you get put on the default tariff.

Weighing up my options here, contract expires in feb/mar.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873154#Comment_123873154

My level pay is near zero most of the time, but has gone briefly up to €50 per month a couple of times too. Their algo for calculating it is wonky 😂

There are other suppliers with pretty decent night slot rates, I think Energia is about 7-8c for a 4h slot?

But Pinergy has been a cash cow for sure, buying for 5c and immediately after, selling the same electrons back for 25c. All fully automated (for free with an old laptop and free home assistant). It's incredible 😂

ELM327

I checked on that kilowatt site twice. Once inputting my annual usage manually and once inputting the file from esbn.

On the manual input (which is better representative of modified behavior to better suit the tariff) it suggested pinergy as the best option. But using historical data, pinergy cost me 3.1k vs 1.4k from the cheapest options. This is despite my historical exports being better than the predicted model they use.

I reckon, if I double my storage or better - so approach 40kWh, I could make the pinergy deal work for me. I'd just be curious on the level pay aspect and on the feasibility of the company remaining solvent!

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873154#Comment_123873154

Not the original poster but…

they do make you pay every month, but as you build up credit the amount reduces. The minimum payment is €5. So basically, I pay a €5 a month for electricity. And over summer credit builds up due to export, which is consumed in winter due to higher usage and low solar output. I then withdraw credit in Spring.

ECO_Mental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873132#Comment_123873132

Hopefully they will be making a loss on me also when I get my batteries in...but surely they are not making a loss on this tariff. While they are paying 25cent FIT they are then selling this back to the grid or other Pinergy customers at 42cent, there is some cleaver accounting going on here and to say they kept the rate and tarrif when the opportunity rose when everyone was increasing rates means they are making money on it. They could probably also pay less TUOS or DUOS charges since it local generation of electricity.

Who knows but there is some fancy accounting going on here with their FIT rate...long may it last...

SD_DRACULA

I said it before and will say it again about the Pinergy tariff: Long may it last!

Or at least until Octopus get their act together and bring some of that goodness to this island, I'm not a fan of paying for power anymore 😉

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873364#Comment_123873364

They make a loss alright as the wholesale rate in Ireland is rarely below €10 / MWh. So it is much cheaper for Pinergy to buy wholesale at 10c/kWh than to buy from me at 25c/kWh

Of course I am a 0.1% exception case with a handful of other nerds, most of whom are regulars in this forum like @SD_DRACULA, @irishchris, @championc, etc. 😂

Paul Kiernan

They've told me you have to be be on the level pay for 3 months before they'll look at changing it. So I'm paying them €300 a month at the moment even though my usage is negative! By the time my 3 months is up they'll owe me well over a grand. All this talk about their solvency is going to keep me awake at night!

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873563#Comment_123873563

It's the solvency of their PV install business, Paul. It's in the article. Separate company from Pinergy the utility provider - which generally is very profitable in Ireland as it is just an admin business. Just a computer that sells something abstract for more than it buys it for and handles all the admin. And some incompent staff manning the phones, to be replaced by AI within the next year or two (further increasing their profitability)

AntonP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873563#Comment_123873563

I paid close to 300€ a month for just 2 months (total under 600!).

after, it went down to 26€ and still there.

The third month you contact them, ask to get credit back (they always leave 200€ as buffer) they ask you for IBAN and you should have the money back in a few days.

AntonP

at night, when they offer us the cheap rate, it must be way cheaper to them as they need to get rid of the electricity provided by wind or water that doesn’t depend directly on solar.

As it might happen on other countries that they might even PAY you to consume electricy because they have nowhere to put it and it would cost them to stop and start whatever produces it.

The trick here is to have enough capacity ourselves to avoid using the expensive rate at all… that’s why I’ve upgraded from 9.6 to 19.2 kWh my batteries early this year, otherwise using this tariff (or the energía one) is not that obvious.

we just hope these tariffs last another few years to get the return on investment before there’s no more FIT or negligible.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873433#Comment_123873433

unkel

@AntonP - "at night, when they offer us the cheap rate, it must be way cheaper to them as they need to get rid of the electricity provided by wind"

That is not how it works. The wholesale prices are determined the day before and that is what the likes of Pinergy pay. This wholesale rate almost never goes below €0.10 / kWh (excluding VAT), so if Pinergy sell at €0.05 / kWh they make a significant loss. But of course on 99% of their customers, they make a profit

AntonP

Perhaps not yet, but “in other countries” with variable rates is happens from time to time. All will come up here if they can squeeze the vast majority of consumers… we are not in that group as we can use our setups to optimize profit.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123876475#Comment_123876475

Of course! For years I have been hoping and expecting for this to come to Ireland. As always, Ireland is the last in the EU to implement dynamic tariffs. They were supposed to kick in this month, but it has again been postponed. Not that it matters as, like I pointed out above, the wholesale rate is never low enough for it to be lucrative. Nor is the peak rate high enough.

With my current setup, I make about €2k profit on my electricity bill in Ireland per year. With the same hardware and a dynamic contract in the Netherlands, I would make about €10k profit

paddyman

@unkel - is your system size approaching the limit for maximising cost versus return?. You are possibly reaching export limits in summer / Tax limits whereby 40+% over €1200 is taking away / MIC limits for bringing in cheap rate electricty to sell later etc

Or would you still pay to double it size if you had space?.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123877423#Comment_123877423

There is a €400 income tax exemption for FIT payments. This is per person who contributes to the bill. There are 5 of us contributing to the bill, so I have no income tax liability

All my stuff is bought at sharp prices and all installs are DIY, so the payback periods of all my hardware is very short. There is no point in increasing any of my hardware though as my only bottleneck is how much electricity I can buy as I have only a 3h cheap slot and only a 12kVA MIC

Indeed on the best days I export 21h * 5.5kW or thereabouts, so well over 100kWh per day. Every single day of the year I buy 45kWh from the grid. I wish I could buy more as Pinergy allows me to buy from them for 5c and immediately sell it back to them for 25c 😂

If I would go to either a 4h night rate slot or a 16kVA connection, or both, I would immediately upgrade my hardware so I can buy and store more electricity (and thus sell more back to the grid)

mjatkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123877481#Comment_123877481

Hi unkel, how do achieve the 15Kw per hour charging, is it one 5K inverter and a 2-3 charger/rectifiers or do use a much larger inverter to charge then restrict the sell back Kw?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123878890#Comment_123878890

I draw 15kW, but that includes everything. My base load, car charging, battery charging, water heating, appliances running, etc.

Entonces

How long does changeover to Pinergy take? Ordered online Friday. Have received online account set up email and welcome email

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884779#Comment_123884779

You should get a call from them shortly to agree to the terms and conditions and a few days later your switch should go through.

I am still in limbo as they are waiting for some final confirmation code from the ESB but typically it should be much quicker.

bkeane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884940#Comment_123884940

I rang yesterday to sign up to them and just got a call this morning to say that the switch has taken place and that I am now a customer of Pinergy. Very quick and painless.

Entonces

I got an email from current provider electric Ireland saying I am now on a smart plan but no word from Pinergy which is strange

ECO_Mental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123885598#Comment_123885598

I would csll them again to check...i signed up a week or two ago snd they "lost" my first sign up details. Had to do it again..

tnegun

It's funny how hit and miss they are, I'd forgotten to add the OH's name to the bill, emailed them Sunday morning and they responded first thing Monday to say it was done. I think Energia insisted on speaking to her then made me close my account, and reopen it to do it!!

floydmoon12

Just got solar installed.
20 Panel (10kw), 5kW Sig inverter and 9kWh of battery storage.
Living in Kerry. 12 panels on south and 8 panels on west.

We use about 24kwh a day.

We are currently with energia and just wondering is it best to stay with them until spring or switch to pinergy now.

I say this as my understanding is that with the solar in December we would get about 6 kwh per day from solar and then if i charge the battery at night it would bring us to 15kwh so we have a shortfall of 9kwh which we would have to pay pinergy for. If the way I am working things out is wrong please advise. thanks.

Ha Long Bay

So just an update on my switch. I finally got an email from Pinergy to say that they got confirmation from ESB networks that the switch had finally went through and today I am able to see usage in the app.

That journey took a lot longer than expected but finally up and running.

Entonces

I ordered Friday and got call Tuesday or Wednesday to say I was moved over. Using EV rate to charge the 8kw battery, heat dhw and then solar to run the house daytime and keep battery topped up. Working well so far(not importing much from grid) but the bleak mid winter will be interesting 🤔

Thanks for help above

Soarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123893587#Comment_123893587

You're mostly right with your assumptions.

I wouldn't be banking on 6kWh per day in winter. There's been a few dull days this month where I've only gotten around 7kWh and I've 13 panels south facing (8 north facing). The battery would normally be your saving grace in winter, but yours isn't big enough to cover your daily usage. I'm not sure on what other supplier's rates are, but Pinergy's near 40c/kWh peak rate is gonna put a fair pile onto your bill in the winter months. Even in the best case scenario you mentioned, that's still gonna cost you €3.60 per day in peak charges, as well as your off peak stuff. Even if that's only €1, that's €4.60 per day in usage alone, which is over €140 for December.

Personally I'd be looking at a supplier with a lower peak price as you're going to be using a fair bit during that time for the next few months.

Dufrain122

I've a 6.1kWp south facing solar system that generates approx 6000 kw a year.

No battery. But have an EV and heatpump.

I'm currently on the Energia EV rate.

Going to install 15kw battery by the end of this month and then switch to Pinergy EV rate.

Few questions:

I'm going to charge the battery during the 2am-5am window and use the battery during the day for house load.

Then dump any left over power to the grid from the battery (not sure if this is correct way but maybe set it to dump @ 12am) before it charges again 2-5am.

Do I then let any excess solar during the day export straight to the grid? (don't topup the battery during day from excess solar)

Is this the best approach to max out revenue from my system?

Thanks for any feedback.

tnegun

Export as much solar as you can and avoid charging the battery from it. This is pretty much what everyone is doing, you need to confirm the maximum sustained charging current your inverter can handle too, it would need to sustain 3 hours at ~100a to fully charge in the ev window. What is MIC and your current usage outside of the 2am-5am window? If the car is pulling 7kw and the battery 5kw on a standard 12Kva connection you won't have much overhead if going by the rules. You need to be sure that in the depths of winter, you can cover the house load almost completely on battery to avoid importing at the non-EV rate as too much will negate the savings. I've no heat pump with a 16kwh battery, and it can get tight after several days of low production.