Fun With Flags! DCC Edition

Sunny Disposition

The flags issue again shows how difficult it is to debate immigration.

Putting up those flags for the purposes they were put up is obviously very distasteful, no question.

But one of the unfortunate effects is that this rather minor issue will overshadow debate about what is a reasonable level of immigration. People who feel that bringing in circa 200,000 immigrants a year might be a little bit excessive will be accused of supporting the hard right flag flyers, there will be a long debate about reclaiming the tricolour, not putting up emblems, shouldn't the tricolour fly if the Palestinian flag flies, etc.

And all the time the real issues, like the impact of mass immigration on a country with a severe housing crisis, will be overshadowed by an unpleasant sideshow.

Oscar_Madison

If you grew up in the 70s and 80s, especially the 80s as most had colour TV at that point, the Irish flag was hijacked by the IRA- outside of St Patrick’s day, any major public displays where the Irish flag featured were associated with terrorism in the eyes of Irish citizens -with the advent of the 1990 World Cup it essentially gave back the Irish flag to Irish people and became a symbol of unity and joy.
I don’t like to see the Irish flag being used in an aggressive manner as is happening now- but in some respects there’s very little we can do to stop that - another sporting event that gets all citizens displaying the Irish flag is probably one way to do it - but even peaceful protests against racism, the Irish flag should be flown- this shows the anti-immigrant groups that you can’t “own” the flag for your purposes - I think it’s very important to do that - in fact ANY peaceful protest that is not about harming others - union strike, anti war, pro conservation - doesn’t matter what- always fly the Irish flag - it negates considerably whats trying to be attempted here - we should never go back to the days where the Irish flag became a symbol of terrorism which happened 40-50 years ago

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123780109#Comment_123780109

And in my view, we let them do that if we don’t start using the Irish flag for more positive reasons - I don’t see this as a permanent thing IF we start using the flag more and more at all positively motivated public gatherings - it will greatly negate the negative connotations of what’s happening right now, and the far right idiots will have to dream up something else- probably a green swastika or something

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781246#Comment_123781246

The English are no different. Their flag is a Genoese naval flag, named after their patron saint who was a Roman soldier who never set foot in England. St George ironically, is also venerated by Muslims as he chose death instead of renouncing his faith. England, the land of northern Germans and Danes, whose language is a bastardised mangling of Nordic, Latin and French. I mean, whatever about trying to define Irishness good luck trying to define Englishness. There hasn't even been an 'English' royal family on the throne for over 500 years now.

In case of doubt, just tell the gobshites that you hold an Irish passport, then tell them to **** off as gaelige.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781149#Comment_123781149

This is how you allow them to hijack the flag. You should never agree with the implied meaning, flying the Irish tricolour in Ireland should never be a problem for anyone. Anyone offended can go relocate themselves to other places with friendlier flags.

I know there are people who have racist anti-immigrant views, even here on boards there is someone who constantly bugger me about the fact I myself am an immigrant, who took a house from Irish people and all kind of silly nonsense. We as immigrants need to accept that there will always be people who don't want us here, but the way forward is dialogue, not suppression of their views. Taking down the flags will make things worse, look at the feking foreigners we can't even have our flag anymore.

DCC should put up flags everywhere. That's how you fight this, if you feel the need to fight it.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781488#Comment_123781488

I read a letter someone sent to the guardian. Someone on their street started putting up English flags. So they all started putting up all flags that were important to them. If they had Jamaican heritage they'd throw up a Jamaican flag and a union Jack. And all the neighbours started doing it. There were pride flags etc. Eventually the people with the english flags put them down.

Just as a separate note that I think people might find interesting. They surveyed people in the UK about how they identify. In England they found that people with an immigrant background were more likely to identify as British. Whereas the people who identified as English were more likely to be white working class. This is because British is seen as more inclusive than English.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781488#Comment_123781488

Anyone offended can go relocate themselves to other places with friendlier flags.

Why should they? It’s just as easy to make a complaint to the council and have them take the flags down. That way there’s no need for any fighting anything, and it comes with the bonus that they don’t have to entertain idiots either who want to drag everyone down to their level. It doesn’t make anything worse for anyone.

facehugger99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774580#Comment_123774580

Funny you mention irony because for me, the last group that tired to claim the Irish tricolor for their own means were violent Republicans.

Growing up in the 80's, you were more likely to see the tricolor draped across the coffin of some murdering terrorist than proudly displayed in the country. We probably have Jack Charlton and the success of the Irish football team to thank for reclaiming the flag back.

I think what Kneecap are doing, incorporating the flag into a balaclava, is worse than any of the so-called 'far-right' bogeymen.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781649#Comment_123781649

Yeah no that's a fair point, although the last part I'd disagree with, what the far-right are doing is far worse than what kneecap are doing

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781649#Comment_123781649

Kneecap are campaigning against an ongoing genocide. That's good.

The anti-immigrants are simply racist ****. That's bad.

Seriously, how is this complicated?

As for the Tricolour being 'co-opted' or 'stolen' by the Republicans, the Irish State has sanitised the revolutionary period from a populist, messy, working class and violent uprising and rebranded it as a noble, saintly, catholic and virtuous vocation. Diarmuid Ferriter's 'A Nation and Not A Rabble' is a good starting point as to how we have been educated to be ashamed of the violence associated with our struggle for independence, ignoring the fact that violence was forced on us. Our flag is nothing to be ashamed of. As a poster up above suggested, DCC should put a Tricolour on every one of its lamposts instead of taking them down.

facehugger99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781671#Comment_123781671

What Kneecap are doing is worse (IMO) because it's so insidious.

They are attempting to re-link the tricolor with a particular strand of violent republicanism. Most of their young fans haven't a clue about what went on the the 80's.

Turing the tricolor into a balaclava is a horrible perversion of what our flag is supposed to represent - the fact that so many people think it's 'cool' or 'edgy' is way more worrying than what's happening with an insignificant percentage of far-right knuckle-draggers.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123779967#Comment_123779967

Personally I never knew about this until one particular poster on here went on a rant about how he/she hated seeing them as they felt the flags were intimidating.

Then it became this thing, that has grown legs. Go figure.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781722#Comment_123781722

Kneecap are taking the piss. They have stated often that lads on the Shankill Road have more in common with lads on the Falls than they do with the any of the institutions of the UK, which have screwed over both communities in NI for decades. You don't get it, that's fine but it's not as 'insidious' as you make out.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781290#Comment_123781290

Well said, but if it's not this particular sideshow at the moment, it's others like the Irish aren't a distinct people because they have x% English, Viking, Spanish DNA etc. Or support the idea that the Irish aren't a distinct, homogenous people a la Micheal Martin.

It's almost as if some on here, and elsewhere, despise and try to downplay any historical and / or cultural Irish identity. I'll leave you and others to decide why that might be.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781290#Comment_123781290

I disagree, as a form of non-violent protest, it's extremely effective. This protest in no way 'overshadows' the immigration issue, quite the opposite it has been a resounding success.

The appaling spectre of guards pulling down Irish flags and telling people that flying the tricolour now 'constitutes hate speach', is exactly the kind of reaction that makes normies look up from their phones start asking questions, the kind of uncomfortable questions that the government really don't want the slumbering masses to ask, like 'what kind of priorities and what kind of policies are being employed to denegrate this country by a government that clearly dispises it's own people and why should we vote for them'?

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781772#Comment_123781772

Are you going to qualify your assertion that the Irish are a distinct and homogenous people? I'm looking forward to your list of cultural/ethnographic or even 'racial' markers that can only be found on the island of Ireland or are unique to the people who live here.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781794#Comment_123781794

The appaling spectre of guards pulling down Irish flags and telling people that flying the tricolour now 'constitutes hate speach'

Have you a link to these spectres?

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123780229#Comment_123780229

We have one on my dad's grave and also outside our house with a Cork flag, left up all year round both , I hope no neighbours find them intimating or racist

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123782770#Comment_123782770

I have one my desk all year round.

Little plastic fella, no writing on it indicating any political leanings

But then I also don't post videos of myself to tiktok waving it about shouting Ireland is full.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123780229#Comment_123780229

It's appropriate for all important state buildings and ceremonial events to fly An Bhratach Náisiúnta. Officials of State are entitled to have it draped over their coffin at their funeral. Strictly speaking, when the anthem is sung, all participants should face it. It is also used to signify when the nation is in official mourning when flown at half mast.

Paddy's day and sports events are actually the most inappropriate displays of the National Flag.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781298#Comment_123781298

I have to say, I find this kind of revisionism quiet typical of certain Irish people.

The narrative that the Irish football team in the Jack Charlton era "gave us back our pride in the flag" is utter nonsense. The flag was proudly present at all international matches long before Jack Charlton and that era,, just most people weren't paying attention. That era was just our first, bona fide band wagon and everyone jumped on board, most of whom never set foot in Lansdown Road (on a football international day) and wouldn't know where Dalymount Park was. Nothing the Irish love more than a good bandwagon. Especially one that allows us pack our pubs and get pissed.

The truth is the flag doesn't really mean a whole pile to Irish people unless they are on a band wagon for a rugby or football team. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all.

But this nonsense that there was some "shame" attached to the Tricolour is just nonsense. No one, and I mean no one, gave a 2nd thought when they were picking up a flag, a jersey, and inflatable banana or whatever in Pennys or Dunnes or where ever, you couldn't step into a commercial premises without some kind of a green related option….no one gave a 2nd thought to the Troubles…it was a band wagon, that is all it was.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123782790#Comment_123782790

Yes they are nice everywhere

I think SH and MM were talking about it on VM news, did not catch the whole interview but they were asked

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123782941#Comment_123782941

The narrative that the Irish football team in the Jack Charlton era "gave us back our pride in the flag" is utter nonsense”

We obviously won’t agree-.i lived through the 70s and 80s- the appearance on TV of the Irish flag was greatly associated with IRA funerals - that is where you saw the tricolour the most in any given week

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123783148#Comment_123783148

I remember it well. But we have this weird tendency to romanticize our past, it's unhealthy. Like "we took the flag back from the terrorists" is how I heard it described once in an RTE documentary a few years ago…It was a band wagon, we all had a blast, leave it at that. We have the same relationship with our flag the same as most nations. Even during those dreadful years. We don't have to spoof about absolutely everything.

Rain from the West

Put the orange bit next to the flagpole and you can bat for the Ivory Coast. Fiendishly clever invention is our flag.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123783354#Comment_123783354

That’s not cricket

I’ll see myself out…

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123783242#Comment_123783242

I’m speaking only personally but even in my social group at the time, I do remember many friends and people noting how the Irish flag was being used in a much more positive setting than we were used to seeing week in week out - for my generation at that time, it did make a difference to us - as the 90s progressed we had a second World Cup, a number of Olympics and the Irish flag was prominent on bumper stickers and hanging out house windows and whatnot - maybe it’s easy to slam all of that today- but as a young person growing up at the time, it resonated with me and my wider social group

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123783425#Comment_123783425

Ya, I get you, I just don't agree. I remember the Barry McGuigan era as well, the Eamonn Coughlan era and I honestly don't remember any issues with tri colours, the Jack Charlton era was a different level obviously. I was at games before the Charlton era I saw tri colours every where, Shamrock Rovers fans used to have loads. To a lot of people maybe, they wouldn't never see a tri colour before outside of an IRA funeral. But again, that was because we really didn't get too worked up over flags, nor did we have much to cheer about so crowds were always quiet small. But I am also factoring in our national talent for telling great stories that have a dubious relationship with truth, which is a trait that annoys me more than it probably should!!

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123783447#Comment_123783447

“Ya, I get you, I just don't agree.”

And that’s fine- we obviously have had different experiences of that time - both are valid

Goldengirl

Man drove into Garda van after taking exception to reports about Tricolour, court told

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2025/09/03/man-drove-into-garda-van-after-taking-exception-to-reports-about-tricolour-court-told/

Now this is taking it to extremes , does everyone agree ?

Wonder if he was reading the thread here ... ?