Draft Clonsilla Framework Plan?

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162382#Comment_123162382

The residents will always say No, even when it means depriving themselves of something good. Those in support are demonised.

I feel that the radical items in the draft plan were proposed by consultants without "that'll never happen/never work" restrictions. Such ideas are good starting points. (The DART, Luas and Dublin Bikes were all predicted to fail; I'm sure the pedestrianisation of Grafton Street was opposed too)

The ideas are trying to solve existing problems. If those making a submission don't like the ideas I really hope they offer other solutions to solve the problems.

With respect to the cycle lane, I'm sick of fearing for my life when I go to Lidl or the graveyard. I should not have to cycle an extra 1km each way (almost doubling the distance) to go via Ongar Road and the Clonsilla Link Road.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162587#Comment_123162587

Grand, but very little of the Clonsilla plan is about increasing permeability.

Wherever you live, if the council planned to dig up the green space in front of your house, cut down all the trees, turn it into a concrete civic space and remove the railings separating it from the main road, you'd be objecting too.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162266#Comment_123162266

Exactly this.

Too often the path of most resistance is chosen for such access battles. It's like the intent is to create a stalemate or argument.

I just don't get why with green fields either side you'd go through an established housing estate. There's recent development in this area that could have had stipulations for future access. Instead of coming back to it after you've waited for new development to be completed that conflicts with future plans.

If it's a mess then the planners created it.

Larbre34

Permeable developments just make for crime and anti-social behaviour, especially with the lack of visible policing so indicative of Dublin today.

Look at Tyrrelstown. I could see when it started to go up that the so-called planners had made fatal mistakes with rear accesses, alleys, blind spots, dark spots and all the rest. And so it proved.

Flinty997

Was the same in the past. All those alley ways that were open in my youth are mostly all closed.

Having said that I'm still on board with making things walkable within reason..

daymobrew

The closed alley ways were probably not overlooked. The opposite to that is the layout of the Annfield/Fernleigh development in Carpenterstown. It has tons of routes between parts of the estate that are not open to cars. It's brilliant.

Flinty997

Those routes as you call them, are part of the original design. It hasn't changed since they built it. They haven't added new access to anything. Also open to cars is a completely different conversation.

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123169066#Comment_123169066

100% totally agree, it seems the priority is to interlink every estate and area which is great if you live in a place with decent-good folks about. I don't want to bang on the anti-social behaviour drum but adding extra entry/exit points to different areas is only going to lead to one outcome if you toerags living in the area.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162765#Comment_123162765

Of course you would, but then you can't complain afterwards that there isn't a focal point for a village centre.

The design has the flaws you identify, but the flaw in rejecting it is that you will never get a Clonsilla Village Centre without it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123169066#Comment_123169066

That simply isn't true.

Permeable developments can work both ways. Depending on the design, they can increase or decrease anti-social behaviour.

Kneejerk rejection is wrong.

Larbre34

Still and all, why take the risk. Leave well enough alone.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123200208#Comment_123200208

If it is 50/50 on anti-social issues, but massively beneficial in sustainability terms, then it is well worth the risk. It can always be reversed.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123195622#Comment_123195622

 but the flaw in rejecting it is that you will never get a Clonsilla Village Centre without it.

Only if you take the proposal as a single, unalterable package than can be either approved or rejected. There is plenty in there that could be kept and could make concrete improvements to Clonsilla without triggering mass objections from residents.

Unfortunately, what has happened now is that the original plan was so bonkers that the overwhelming majority of submissions are against it, so it will have to go back to the drawing board in a big way.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204000#Comment_123204000

If you don't open up the hedgerows and fence at Castlefield, you lose the opportunity to create a focal point for a village centre. Sure, you can drop the playground or bring in one-way traffic on the Clonsilla Road as alternatives to the reduction in green space, but the opportunity to create a "village green" at the centre of the village depends on opening it up.